McCann affair: PJ Inspector caught in internet trap

I agree, puzzled. The language used to me reads as the words of an English person. The phrases, structure, choice of words etc do not lend themselves to being written by someone for whom English is not their first language. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong, but I don't believe they are the words of a Portuguese man, no matter how fluent his English.

Lance De Boils wrote:I agree, puzzled. The language used to me reads as the words of an English person. The phrases, structure, choice of words etc do not lend themselves to being written by someone for whom English is not their first language. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong, but I don't believe they are the words of a Portuguese man, no matter how fluent his English.

OK, I'm starting off from the premise that the post was posted in English, and has not been translated. I think that's the case, yes?

So, I've looked through it carefully, and there are several things that come to mind. First, there is a lack of punctuation which makes it difficutl in some parts to know what goes with what. However, this isn't unusual in internet postings, so we can't attach too much importance to that. We all do that when we're typing away.

As far as the language goes, there are three things that could indicate a non-native speaker. First, the use of 'do' in '.....which do not lend dignity....'. It should be 'does', but it's also possible this is another typo. Secondly '.....the most powerful tool in order to discuss the case....'. It would sound more natural to say'.....for discussing the case...'. And finally '.....the fiercest fighting against....' This isn't actually grammatically incorrect but has an odd feel, and also I feel that an English speaker would have chosen the word 'hostility' instead of 'fighting' here.

Against this, there are certain aspects that indicate a very high level of competence in English. For example, 'I am all for this..', an idiomatic expression. Similarly the word 'witch-hunt' (a metaphor) is not a word that would be in the vocabulary of someone with only an intermediate level knowledge of English. The use of 'however' after 'am' is a use that is characteristic of highly formal registers of English, and anyway, learners of English often find the positioning of adverbs quite difficult, as there are few clear rules about this. Again, the use of 'polite' forms such as 'I would like to take the opportunity....', 'I would urge you all....', as well as the vocabulary used shows a very high level of competence. The use of the tenses is correct throughout, and this is extremely unusual in non-native speakers, even when they are highly competent.

I actually teach English as a foreign language. Most of the people I see are business people, lawyers, graduates, people who usually have a high level command of English. But they still find the things I've mentioned above, like idioms and 'social' uses difficult. And mistakes and features of their native language usually creep into their writing even when their understanding is very high level.

So I can't rule out the possibility that this was written by a foreigner who is highly proficient in English. At the same time, it could be written by a native speaker who has deliberately put in a few mistakes, realising that if it was too perfect, that would be too obvious. So the question is then, what is this man's level of English? Do we have other examples of his writing in English? And how do they compare to the above?

This all sounds like a load of old baloney to me. Hasn't this Officer been attacked before by the McCanns or am I imagining it. I dont remember this profile having very much to say at all on facebook. I remember in the Casey Anthony case that the defence tried to discredit one of the Police Officers by what he had written on a social networking site and this smells of the same.

littlepixie wrote:This all sounds like a load of old baloney to me. Hasn't this Officer been attacked before by the McCanns or am I imagining it. I dont remember this profile having very much to say at all on facebook. I remember in the Casey Anthony case that the defence tried to discredit one of the Police Officers by what he had written on a social networking site and this smells of the same.

Agree completely. An attempt to discredit Ricardo Pavia before the next round of their money-grabbing efforts to sue Dr. Amaral was always on the cards after Pavia did so well as a witness at the appeal hearing which overturned their injunction. Oh dear! They are becoming so predictable. IMO it's too little too late - things have moved on whilst they were looking to discredit Pavia and the news that Scotland Yard and the PJ are working together to solve this case is far more important.

ALLEGED RICARDO PAIVA POSTING 11 JAN 2012:

QUOTE

Dear friends

I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all a very happy new year 2012!

In recent years I have noticed that blogs, forums and the social networking sites of facebook and twitter have been THE most powerful tool in order to discuss the case and a most useful arena for the sharing of opinions.
in order to - this is a colloquial phrase used ungrammatically. Whilst the meaning is perfectly clear - a foreign speaker proficient in English would not use such a phrase - they might say: 'the most power tool (we/I can use) to discuss the case etc. the 'in order to' is too official and not a phrase a foreign speaker would use .
Unlike a book for instance there can be no censorship or proofreading compromising ones freedom of speech allowing everyone to democratically give their opinions in a free and an open manner.There's just no way an educated foreigner would organize a sentence in English this way. Don't forget that one is aware of using a language other than one's own, it's more important to get the meaning across. Proofreading here is meaningless in any case. The whole sentence would work brilliantly for a British politician. i.e. meaningless drivel. Kinnock was a master of such statements.

I am all for this and welcome it wholeheartedly.

For obvious reasons I am unable to contribute to your discussions due to professional secrecy laws since I am very much still involved in the case.
a curious phrase. Smacks of a Brit imitating foreign thinking. Pretty close to 'him fellow belong sky' for an airplane.
Now why is it for obvious reasons? Because do they already know who he is? So for good measure we hear he's still up to his neck in the case?

I am however able to read your pages and follow many of them with great interest.

Whilst I am an advocate of freedom of speech I have noticed over the past few days the fiercest fighting against those whose views are not shared by you.
Well done! Advocate? I'm not sure that word is common in Portugese, it is in Dutch and a few other languages, but normally only used asa verb in English and even then only rarely.

Personal attacks are in no way going to dignify the cause in any way at all like the personal and professional attack on Justine Spencer which do not lend dignity to the cause whatsoever. Dignify? Personal and professional attack on a weak, defenseless woman? Whoever she is - I've no idea. - it's a non sequitur - it doesn't follow the previous statements at all and comes out of a blue sky - bully for Justine!

I would urge you all please to avoid any such future attacks.
He's perfectly capable of phrasing this correctly - avoid any such attacks in the future.
This is not a witch hunt afterall and the use of personal data and photographs esp of women (one of whom was not even involved in the case) is abusive after all.
I'd have to check with my Portugese neighbour who is a translator - but witch hunt isn't likely to translate directly into Portugese, they'd be more likely to have their own expression for such occasions.

That said I thank you for all your positive support and look forward to seeing you soon in the Court of Lisbon on the 9th and 10th February.

My very best wishes to you all.

UNQUOTE

This was just a quick assessment, I AM a foreigner and am very well versed in English. This little effort is neither one thing nor another, I've taught many a foreigner to speak and write English - usually they end up turning their own language into English words, which do not always convey the meaning they intend.

This is FAKE!
But jolly lucky for Justine the Righteous - so don't upset her. Certainly not to the extend that she is compelled to use her mobile in court when forbidden to do so. She's obviously having a very hard time, I think we got that - from the horse's mouth.


_______________________________________________

I doubt that a professional like Paiva would share this information on facebook but one thing I can share is that Justine Spencer was stalking & abusing Warren Thornton on twitter and apparently elsewhere too.

Extract from the Daily Mail re Ricardo Paiva................

[snipped]
CHANT KEPT KATE STRONG
Boiling with rage as a policeman accused her of killing her daughter, Kate McCann kept control of her temper by whispering ‘****ing to**er’ at him.
She was in the police interview room under intense pressure to confess, as Portuguese detectives confronted her with their so-called evidence that Madeleine had died in the holiday apartment.
Mrs McCann swore under her breath in a quiet chant to keep herself strong, she reveals in extracts of her book being serialised in The Sun.

Mrs McCann said detective Ricardo Paiva was interrogating her in the Portimao police station on Friday, September 7 – having previously been the McCanns’ police liaison officer.

‘This was the man who invited us to his home for dinner,’ she says. ‘Our children played with his son.’

Now he was suggesting that she had ‘sedated’ the twins and was unable to cope with three children.

‘I knew exactly where this line of questioning was going and I refused to give in to it,’ she says. ‘I remember feeling disdain for Ricardo. What was he doing? Just following orders?

‘Under my breath I found myself whispering, “****ing to**er, ****ing to**er”. This quiet chant somehow kept me strong, kept me in control.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385336/Kate-McCann-Madeleine-guilt-meant-I-make-love-Gerry.html#ixzz1oogP60ad

I still can't get over what type of woman thinks it is okay to chant F**king Tosser to herself regarding a Policeman just doing his job. Do all Doctors use that kind of language and think it is acceptable to share it with other people?

tigger wrote: THE most powerful tool in order to discuss the case and a most useful arena for the sharing of opinions.

Actually here's another point, if we look at the conjunction here, it's noticeable that the second conjunct uses the 'correct' form '....for the sharing of opinions'. If someone thought 'in order to...' was the correct form to use here, they would probably use it in both conjuncts. Hhhmmmm. It does rather give the impression of being written by a native speaker with a few mistakes and oddities thrown in because if it was too perfect it would fool noboby.

Lance De Boils wrote:I agree, puzzled. The language used to me reads as the words of an English person. The phrases, structure, choice of words etc do not lend themselves to being written by someone for whom English is not their first language. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong, but I don't believe they are the words of a Portuguese man, no matter how fluent his English.

I'm sure Joana posted somewhere that he was an English teacher in a previous life.

A Portuguese Press version of what happened

"Inspector Maddie falls into trap '- BBC News"

One of the PJ inspectors who investigated the Maddie case was the victim of a trap on the Internet. The detective Ricardo Paiva spoke on Facebook with a woman who introduced herself as the American model, but the talks eventually fall into the possession of the English press. The inspector then has been blackmailed, that these conversations were not made public, and now responds in disciplinary proceedings to be concerned the violation of official duties. The fake profile on Facebook may have been created by someone connected to the cause of McCann."

http://www.abola.pt/mundos/ver.aspx?id=320170

Genbug wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:I agree, puzzled. The language used to me reads as the words of an English person. The phrases, structure, choice of words etc do not lend themselves to being written by someone for whom English is not their first language. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong, but I don't believe they are the words of a Portuguese man, no matter how fluent his English.

I'm sure Joana posted somewhere that he was an English teacher in a previous life.

I have also been working as a teacher of English. I have lived in Canada and England for many years. I am also aware that my own English is not perfect, and will never be perfect. I also do not believe that a foreign person wrote this.

His FB account is reactivated again...How would that be possiblle if it was proven to be fake?

I would say that this is probably evidence that it is either fake or been hacked. I can't see the REAL Paiva reactivating it after his world has fallen apart because of it.

Shibboleth wrote:

Genbug wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:I agree, puzzled. The language used to me reads as the words of an English person. The phrases, structure, choice of words etc do not lend themselves to being written by someone for whom English is not their first language. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong, but I don't believe they are the words of a Portuguese man, no matter how fluent his English.

I'm sure Joana posted somewhere that he was an English teacher in a previous life.

I have also been working as a teacher of English. I have lived in Canada and England for many years. I am also aware that my own English is not perfect, and will never be perfect. I also do not believe that a foreign person wrote this.

Hi Shibboleth, do you speak English with a foreign accent, or at least a hint of one? (you don't need to answer that I'm just using it for an example) I think it would be interesting to actually HEAR Paiva speak English. That would give one a really good idea of how he would actually write in English. I'm not buying this FB stuff is written by Paiva. It's too fluent for starters and if I had read these entries without knowing who had written them I'd be given to thinking they were penned by a female.

littlepixie wrote:I still can't get over what type of woman thinks it is okay to chant F**king Tosser to herself regarding a Policeman just doing his job. Do all Doctors use that kind of language and think it is acceptable to share it with other people?

GM thought it perfectly ok to swear on a bus in front of kids, not just his own kids but other people's. As for the bewk that was written FOR Madeleine apparently (correct me if I'm wrong), apart from the eeew references to the McCann's intimate life, there is KM's chant of 'f**king t*sser'. I bet Madeleine would really relish reading that if she ever has the opportunity. They DO have two other children who will have the opportunity of reading it when they are old enough. NICE?????

Gillyspot wrote:I would say that this is probably evidence that it is either fake or been hacked. I can't see the REAL Paiva reactivating it after his world has fallen apart because of it.

Has it been reactivated because the police will want to look at all the entries and possibly IP addresses and so forth?

aquila wrote:

Shibboleth wrote:

Genbug wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:I agree, puzzled. The language used to me reads as the words of an English person. The phrases, structure, choice of words etc do not lend themselves to being written by someone for whom English is not their first language. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong, but I don't believe they are the words of a Portuguese man, no matter how fluent his English.

I'm sure Joana posted somewhere that he was an English teacher in a previous life.

I have also been working as a teacher of English. I have lived in Canada and England for many years. I am also aware that my own English is not perfect, and will never be perfect. I also do not believe that a foreign person wrote this.

Hi Shibboleth, do you speak English with a foreign accent, or at least a hint of one? (you don't need to answer that I'm just using it for an example) I think it would be interesting to actually HEAR Paiva speak English. That would give one a really good idea of how he would actually write in English. I'm not buying this FB stuff is written by Paiva. It's too fluent for starters and if I had read these entries without knowing who had written them I'd be given to thinking they were penned by a female.

Good morning Aquila, I do not mind your asking. I do speak English with an accent. It is somewhat Canadian, and some from Manchester, although I am in fact Israeli. My husband is from Manchester and my children were born there.

littlepixie wrote:This all sounds like a load of old baloney to me. Hasn't this Officer been attacked before by the McCanns or am I imagining it. I dont remember this profile having very much to say at all on facebook. I remember in the Casey Anthony case that the defence tried to discredit one of the Police Officers by what he had written on a social networking site and this smells of the same.

Are you thinking of Judge Strickland who was to try the Casey Anthony case, and was accused by the blogger Marinade Dave of blogging on a social site? After this he recused himself, and Judge Belvin Perry then was appointed the trial Judge.

No it was the actual Police Officer (Yuri Melich?) who went with Casey back to her place of work and who I think arrested her. The Defence tried to get his testimony thrown out before he even testified in Court on the grounds that while he was on sick leave he had posted on a webforum/site/ Mentions it here
http://mamaglenda.blogspot.com/2011/06/yuri-melichs-testimony.html

It didnt work though.

Shibboleth wrote:

aquila wrote:

Shibboleth wrote:

Genbug wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:I agree, puzzled. The language used to me reads as the words of an English person. The phrases, structure, choice of words etc do not lend themselves to being written by someone for whom English is not their first language. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong, but I don't believe they are the words of a Portuguese man, no matter how fluent his English.

I'm sure Joana posted somewhere that he was an English teacher in a previous life.

I have also been working as a teacher of English. I have lived in Canada and England for many years. I am also aware that my own English is not perfect, and will never be perfect. I also do not believe that a foreign person wrote this.

Hi Shibboleth, do you speak English with a foreign accent, or at least a hint of one? (you don't need to answer that I'm just using it for an example) I think it would be interesting to actually HEAR Paiva speak English. That would give one a really good idea of how he would actually write in English. I'm not buying this FB stuff is written by Paiva. It's too fluent for starters and if I had read these entries without knowing who had written them I'd be given to thinking they were penned by a female.

Good morning Aquila, I do not mind your asking. I do speak English with an accent. It is somewhat Canadian, and some from Manchester, although I am in fact Israeli. My husband is from Manchester and my children were born there.

Shibboleth thanks for your honest response. Your english on here is not as natives would speak (in fact in many instances it has better grammar & punctuation). Obviously all non native english speakers will not display the same idiosyncrasies as it depends on their mother tongue but in my opinion either Paiva was an almost native speaker or it was not Paiva.

Clearly whether this was Ricardo Paiva speaking via facebook will be revealed in time but in my humble opinion the perpetrators of the fraud or "Sting" as a pro troll describes it is at least as culpable as Paiva if indeed it is he and he did reveal sensitive information in the Madeleine McCann case.

I doubt it was him.

This is just going to be a witch hunt that will sizzle out.
What I want to know is who reported him to his employer.
The person who did it would be the one setting him up for a dubious reason I would imagine.

What's betting people wont hear anything further about it from the PJ because IMO even if it was proven to be him I don't believe he'd breached anything when all he did was revealed his identity and he used to work on Madeleine case. If he'd discussed the case then it would be a different matter.

littlepixie wrote:No it was the actual Police Officer (Yuri Melich?) who went with Casey back to her place of work and who I think arrested her. The Defence tried to get his testimony thrown out before he even testified in Court on the grounds that while he was on sick leave he had posted on a webforum/site/ Mentions it here
http://mamaglenda.blogspot.com/2011/06/yuri-melichs-testimony.html

It didnt work though.

Yep, you're right, i had forgotten about that incident LOL