Re: Photographs and memories

by tumbleweed 30.10.11 14:25

tigger wrote:
Moa wrote:I'm amazed by the difference between Madeleines picture. This one of her on the pony do not look like Madeleine at all, atleast compered to the ones relised as Madeleine...

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I really can't see Maddie in that face on the pony at all. Quite a different smile and a smile is very individual. That's why I think the crimped hair photos aren't Maddie, it's just not possible to change a smile so much.
Looking again, she could well be the Irish Maddie.

What do you mean by Irish Maddie, Tigger? I'm intrigued.

by **tigger** 30.10.11 14:56

There are two photographs of Maddie in Ireland, where she is almost the same size as Sean, which is impossible. The poses are rather strange so either the face is photoshopped in, the rock photo shows some evidence of that. The whole Donegal topic is interesting but the photographs don't make sense in terms of the relative sizes of the children.

by Guest 30.10.11 16:12

Here's a link to one of the Donegal photos. It's possible that the girl who is supposedly Madeleine is the same one riding a pony.

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We are told that Madeleine was small for her age (90 cms) so I think it's feasible that Sean was nearly as tall as she was. I have certainly seen photos where he's taller than his twin Amelie though can't readily find one at the moment.

by Guest 30.10.11 16:44

tigger wrote:
Moa wrote:I'm amazed by the difference between Madeleines picture. This one of her on the pony do not look like Madeleine at all, atleast compered to the ones relised as Madeleine...

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/img]

I really can't see Maddie in that face on the pony at all. Quite a different smile and a smile is very individual. That's why I think the crimped hair photos aren't Maddie, it's just not possible to change a smile so much.
Looking again, she could well be the Irish Maddie.

I agree. On this pony picture she is so different from all the other photos that it feels like this picture is a slip. Maybe this is the true real Madeleine? she is not stunning , looks very average maybe even a little under average cute(all children are cute but hope you understand what i mean) , dark blond, and the smile and the eyes looks nothing like the Madeleine we all have been shown..I dont think she looks like the Madeleine in Donegal either. I feel that one is more alike the Tennisgirl picture. The ponypic dont look like any other phots of her.

by **tigger** 30.10.11 16:50

She does look tall enough to be the tennis girl, who must be at least 114 cm. If you 'unfolded' the girl from the pony, she'd be at least that.

by Guest 30.10.11 17:34

Somebody mentioned recently another photo of Madeleine (?) riding on Gerry's back which doesn't appear to be her. It's the middle photo in this story. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 30.10.11 18:25

Marian wrote:Somebody mentioned recently another photo of Madeleine (?) riding on Gerry's back which doesn't appear to be her. It's the middle photo in this story. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Her teeth on that picture look very different from other pictures? Looks like one of those teeth thing little girls in beauty contents use..I cant see the gap between her front theets on this one. But this one do not look like the ponypic girl either...!

And the picture on this page, the background picture with madeleine in pumpkin dress, that do not look anything like Madeleine.
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by **tigger** 30.10.11 18:33

Moa wrote:
Marian wrote:Somebody mentioned recently another photo of Madeleine (?) riding on Gerry's back which doesn't appear to be her. It's the middle photo in this story. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Her teeth on that picture look very different from other pictures? Looks like one of those teeth thing little girls in beauty contents use..I cant see the gap between her front theets on this one. But this one do not look like the ponypic girl either...l

We may have been given photographs of at least three or four other girls bearing some resemblance to Maddie. I'm absolutely sure this one isn't her.
There are: the second, very blonde Everton shirt, the pony girl, this girl on Gerry's back and I think the girl in pink in the playground isn't her either.
Then there is the one with crimped hair, the one with sunglasses on the top of her head, neither of those are Maddie, most seem to be of a slightly older girl (by about 6 months or so). Wow, that makes six so far. Confusion is good, isn't it Gerry?

by Nina 30.10.11 20:20

Have just blown up the photographs to 475, try it. Yes a blondish little girl, with Kate by her side, so makes you think "oh it must be Maddie" but when you compare that group you will see that they are at least 2 girls. Very clever.

by tumbleweed 30.10.11 21:13

I agree, she does look very different in so many of the photos. This is actually one of the things that interests me most about her case. But I always can find one thing on every "Maddie" that makes her look like the same girl. I can't explain it, because it's so subtle sometimes.

But, if it is a different little girl in all of these photos, how are they achieving this and why would they need to? That's one of the things I can't figure out.

A lot of these pictures have made me wonder if Madeleine was abused or neglected for long periods of time, making her look more haggard than her normal self. I've heard of cases of selective abuse by parents, where other children aren't victims. A lot of pictures of her, and the way her mom talks about her, makes me think of things like that. But that is a terrible thought, and purely speculation, and hopefully not true. But these pictures really do make a person wonder so many things.

by jd 31.10.11 0:19

tumbleweed wrote:I agree, she does look very different in so many of the photos. This is actually one of the things that interests me most about her case. But I always can find one thing on every "Maddie" that makes her look like the same girl. I can't explain it, because it's so subtle sometimes.

But, if it is a different little girl in all of these photos, how are they achieving this and why would they need to? That's one of the things I can't figure out.

A lot of these pictures have made me wonder if Madeleine was abused or neglected for long periods of time, making her look more haggard than her normal self. I've heard of cases of selective abuse by parents, where other children aren't victims. A lot of pictures of her, and the way her mom talks about her, makes me think of things like that. But that is a terrible thought, and purely speculation, and hopefully not true. But these pictures really do make a person wonder so many things.

I couldn't agree more. Maddie looks different in every photo and I don;t know what she really looked like on May 3rd 2007....but then this was the point I think, to create confusion and away from the truth. the only set of photos that Maddie is consistent are the Paul Grover ones

by kikoraton 31.10.11 8:19

Could anybody put the photos in batches - the real Maddie, the Donegal, etc etc? It would help me to understand.
The Paul Grover ones - obviously the one with his name on it, but is there another which we can say for definite?
Good work!

by happychick 02.11.11 16:54

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This photo is quite odd. If you click on it to enlarge it you can see maddy has a very thin neck, looks like it can hardly support her head, and you can see the background through her hair, including amelie's jacket.

by Daisy 02.11.11 17:13

happychick wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This photo is quite odd. If you click on it to enlarge it you can see maddy has a very thin neck, looks like it can hardly support her head, and you can see the background through her hair, including amelie's jacket.

Woah! I see now, how strange her neck looks. hadn't even noticed that before.

I still believe the Donegal trip holds many keys; I feel there's much more to be uncovered about this event.

by **tigger** 02.11.11 18:11

kikoraton wrote:Could anybody put the photos in batches - the real Maddie, the Donegal, etc etc? It would help me to understand.
The Paul Grover ones - obviously the one with his name on it, but is there another which we can say for definite?
Good work!

I don't know how to do that yet, but there are a number of pointers:
you cannot change your smile, the muscles involved are sort of trained to go into one specific contraction, this is different for everyone.
Maddie's smile - often with her lips closed which is strange for a small child - is quite distinctive.
Look at the smile on the girl with the crimped hair, quite different.
Then I think that Maddie looks very insecure on many photographs, again compare the two Everton shirt photos. IMO the very blond girl with the confident body language and smile is no way Maddie. The other one is, although the head is badly photoshopped onto another body.

by **tigger** 02.11.11 18:16

Daisy wrote:
happychick wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This photo is quite odd. If you click on it to enlarge it you can see maddy has a very thin neck, looks like it can hardly support her head, and you can see the background through her hair, including amelie's jacket.

Woah! I see now, how strange her neck looks. hadn't even noticed that before.

I still believe the Donegal trip holds many keys; I feel there's much more to be uncovered about this event.

Between us - esp. the Google earth people - we've done quite a good job on Donegal I think. I also think understanding the Donegal deception is key to the rest. It was so early and so unnecessary it seemed. Now we know better.
Not only is the head clearly pasted onto the body, the body is the same size as Sean and hence the confusion about the shrinking twins. The relative sizes of their cousins are about right.

by Daisy 02.11.11 18:29

Agree with all that Tigger.

Just got to persuade the old man to take in Donegal when we visit Co Mayo in Ireland next year. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by russiandoll 02.11.11 20:20

I have tried twice but have been unable to copy enlarged versions [or versions able to be enlarged] of the following photos, can anyone post them together for comparison?

the one with a girl on horseback

the one with a grinning girl in a pink fairy outfit

the one with a girl dressed as a pumpkin

these have a very similr set of the mouth and show toothy smiles, are of the same girl imo and are not Maddie.

as for the photo above it always looked dodgy to me, the "sit" of the head on the angle of those shoulders not right, but only after enlarging as you have suggested is the neck [ or lack of it ]clear,,,,,bizarre to say the least. Compared to the photo near Tullys the kids outfits all look the same but there appears to be a difference to Maddies layered top near the neck area on the above photo... and there can be no motive but a bad one for altering or enhancing photos of a child who in the alleged circumstances should be treasured and much missed. The more I see of this kind of thing the more sickened I become, it as if there is nothing sacred at all everything is up for falsifying, it truly turns my stomach. surely to god the police have noticed this if the likes of us have?

by **Jill Havern** 02.11.11 21:32

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by anil39200 02.11.11 21:35

The hairband is wrong as well, it looks right at the left end as you look at the photo but at the right end it sort of blurs away, my wife Mrs Columbo also says it does not look in exactly the right position on the head. The neck sort of fits the body but looks far too small for the head. Odd really.

by Newintown 02.11.11 21:43

anil39200 wrote:The hairband is wrong as well, it looks right at the left end as you look at the photo but at the right end it sort of blurs away, my wife Mrs Columbo also says it does not look in exactly the right position on the head. The neck sort of fits the body but looks far too small for the head. Odd really.

You're quite right about the hairband, it also looks like a false hair piece attached to a comb on a band that can be pushed into the hair. The colour of the hair coming from the hairband is lighter than the fringe which looks quite dark. The hair above the fringe is pushed to one side under the band so it looks like the hair on the band has been added or the face has been superimposed onto someone who was wearing a hairstyle with the hairband.

by russiandoll 02.11.11 21:46

noticed the way that sat oddly on the head also
I think if you take out the face from this photo you would using proportion and perspective as an artist, be sketching a bigger face. the face has I believe been placed in this photo from another photo and the face that was in this original is larger. There are two differnet hairstyles going on that do not match if you look very closely.

by russiandoll 02.11.11 21:50

not sure how you did that but its really helpful. there appear to be 2 girls in these photos. I know this sounds odd, but am going to look closer at the eyebrows, they can be very distinctive in shape even on young children...
there is the same button nose on the photos, but as tigger said, the teeth and smiles are vey different, even accounting for slight changes over time.

by TheTruthWillOut 02.11.11 21:58

russiandoll wrote:noticed the way that sat oddly on the head also
I think if you take out the face from this photo you would using proportion and perspective as an artist, be sketching a bigger face. the face has I believe been placed in this photo from another photo and the face that was in this original is larger. There are two differnet hairstyles going on that do not match if you look very closely.

I was about to post the same thing! The central section of the face and hair up to the hair band is pasted in. the outer hair belongs to whatever girl really is.

That's what the enlarged photo looks like to me anyway!

by anil39200 02.11.11 22:01

Yes russiandoll I agree , to my mind its a combination of different images designed to make you look at it quickly and thnk aww! and then move on, which is par for the course in many things with aspects of the parent's rewriting of history.

Looking at the montage of pictures I cant help thinking one could be looking at several different children. We tried to do a similar exercise with our own daughters pictures in a similar way and though there are different expressions etc we cannot make them look like other children like some of these photos seem to be.