Re: Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be

by Silentscope 22.09.20 15:17

Why wait? I was expecting to fall off my Stool since Breakfast time Monday!

I do not see the Point of delaying this any longer?

What for?

by **Mainline** 22.09.20 15:33

Logical defence strategy, and well timed ahead of Thursday. Think of it like poker, both sides are playing the press carefully and only one side is bluffing.

by Silentscope 22.09.20 15:43

I hope Herr Fülscher plays Cards as well as Mr Bond does.

I think someone will be Crying tears of Blood soon.

by Verdi 22.09.20 15:45

Madeleine McCann: Material evidence that missing girl is dead, say German prosecutors

Public prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters says evidence exists but refused to elaborate

1 hour ago

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/madeleine-mccann-dead-missing-evidence-christian-brueckner-portugal-germany-b531320.html

Indeed - many a true word spoken..

Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be - Page 8 Eddie_13

by Verdi 22.09.20 15:55

How childish this is. Have they forgotten that the core of this is a little three year old child - Madeleine McCann. It's an insult to her memory so why aren't the parents screaming from the rooftops to make it stop?

As I previously said, the only winners in this game of charades is Gerry amd Kate McCann and the press.

Material evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead, say German prosecutors

David Crossland, Berlin
Tuesday September 22 2020, 12.00pm BST, The Times

German prosecutors have said that there is material evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead.

Hans Christian Wolters, the public prosecutor in Braunschweig, northwest Germany, told Portuguese television that investigators had evidence the British toddler, who was three when she was taken from a holiday resort in the Algarve in 2007, had died.

Mr Wolters, speaking to the broadcaster RTP, answered “Yes” when asked: “Do you have any material evidence that Madeleine is dead?”

When the interviewer asked him what evidence he had, Mr Wolters refused to elaborate.

The prosecutor said in June that he believed Madeleine was dead and identified Christian Brückner, a convicted paedophile, as the prime suspect.

His office has since declined to reveal its evidence, but did make a public appeal in June for evidence against Brückner, who has insisted that he was not involved in Madeleine’s disappearance.

The Sun newspaper reported on Monday that Brückner’s lawyer, Friedrich Fülscher, said he had proof that Brückner was innocent.

The prosecutor’s office wrote to Madeleine McCann’s parents in June saying it knew that their daughter had been murdered but was unable to reveal the evidence. It said Madeleine had been killed after being abducted from the resort in Praia da Luz in May 2007.

Mr Wolters said at the time: “We don’t have forensic evidence but we have other evidence.”

He could not immediately be reached for comment and it is unclear whether his office has received any new evidence since June.

Brückner is in prison in the northern German city of Kiel, serving a sentence for drug dealing. He is appealing against a conviction for rape in 2005, which carries a seven-year sentence that he is yet to serve.

German prosecutors and Scotland Yard have been following up hundreds of leads after public appeals that featured a farmhouse that Brückner rented on the outskirts of Praia da Luz. They also featured a Jaguar and a camper van that he owned.

It emerged last week that police had been looking for computer memory sticks in July when they searched an allotment near Hanover believed to have been used by Brückner. Prosecutors declined to say whether any had been found.

A separate search in 2016 of a dilapidated former factory 30 miles from Braunschweig had uncovered memory sticks containing more than 8,000 files, including images or videos showing the abuse of infants, children and adolescents. About 100 of the files were pictures of Brückner partly naked.

A Portuguese investigative TV show last week claimed that Brückner had an accomplice in Madeleine’s abduction.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/material-evidence-that-madeleine-mccann-is-dead-say-german-prosecutors-3sndk8330
....................

Madeleine McCann was not abducted !!!

by Verdi 22.09.20 16:17

Some comments from the above Times article..

There is no movement on this since June really, and very distressing for all concerned. If indeed there is no forensic evidence linking this piece of trash to Madeleine, meaning no DNA, trace evidence, or fingerprints, from the disclosures so far it looks like tI might be photographic evidence and/or texts or emails?
_____

Each time I see an article on this tragic case, I think of my own daughter.... what the parents must go through every hour every day I cannot imagine. Truly heart breaking.

What possesses anyone to leave a negative or dumb comment is beyond me. Cruel and shameful.
_____

I don’t suppose we’ll ever really know what happened on that evening but I hope if they’ve got some proof she’s dead that they can bring him to justice swiftly for the sake of her family.
_____

I do hope the McCanns have been kept up-to-date and know to expect such blatant headlines. I found it shocking and I'm just a reader.
_____

Christian Brückner sends me off towards capital punishment
_____

The McCann’s continue to live a nightmare. I truly hope they get closure. It would be wonderful to find Mandeline but .... there are so many things caught up on that but. My heart goes out to them all.
_____

Yet another non story. The German prosecutors are fantasists and egomaniacs. They keep making grandiose claims yet fail to add any meat to the bones. There are many interested parties who are happy to go along or buy into the Madeleine is dead at the hands of this German guy as it fits the abduction theory.
Mark my words, nothing will come of this.
_____

Since their child when missing, the McCanns have been subject to a deluge of criticism.

However, if it was my daughter then I would act exactly as they have done.
_____

Abduction isn't a theory. It is a fact, attested to by the Portuguese prosecutors who oversaw the shelved enquiry, confirmed by PJ Inspector Joao Carlos who confirms in his final report that Gerry was in the Tapas Restaurant at the time of Kate's alert and taken as the basis of the Operation Grange remit, which states that Madeleine was taken from her bed in a criminal act by a stranger.
_____

Obviously Brückner will deny it he is only facing 7 years in prison otherwise. I thought from the very outset that someone working at the restaurant the McCanns went to each evening, must have been involved. The link never seems to have been fully investigated. The McCanns have shown real dignity throughout. All respect to them.
_____

I sincerely hope that closure for the McCann family will be coming soon.
Their suffering throughout this ordeal must have been unimaginable.
_____

I do not understand why comments are open on this article
______

If you read between the lines, it gives an indication of what many may think as evidence.

There are no words of comfort for any parent who has been told this kind of news. It is an extremely sad outcome to a case that has captured many of us.
_____

The German prosecutor has, on his own admission, had proof since June that Madeleine had been murdered. A public appeal in June asked for evidence against Brückner was then issued despite the prime suspect being Brückner. Yet 3 months later no prosecution has been forthcoming. What sort of policing is this? Why make such comments then do nothing? Everything from start to the current situation regarding Madeleine has been appalling. I doubt the truth will never be revealed.
_____

Absence of any plausible alternative explanation of Madeleine's disappearance is, in its own right, potent evidence of abduction.

by Silentscope 22.09.20 16:43

Would this have anything to do with the Fact that any Charges against a Suspect MUST be brought within three Months?

I do not know if this would Apply to Capital crimes.

criminal code

General part (§§ 1 - 79b )

Section 4 - Criminal application, authorization, request for criminal prosecution (Sections 77 - 77e )

Section 77b
application deadline

(1) 1 An act that can only be prosecuted upon application will not be prosecuted if the person entitled to file the application fails to submit the application within a period of three months. 2 If the end of the period falls on a Sunday, a public holiday or a Saturday, the period ends at the end of the next working day.
(2) 1 The period begins at the end of the day on which the person entitled becomes aware of the act and the person of the perpetrator. 2 For the application of the legal representative and the legal guardian, it depends on their knowledge.
(3) If several are entitled to apply or if several are involved in the act, the deadline runs separately for and against each.
(4) If the right to apply has passed to relatives due to the death of the injured person, the period ends at the earliest three months and at the latest six months after the death of the injured person.
(5) The time limit is suspended if the settlement authority receives an application to carry out an attempt at atonement in accordance with Section 380 of the Code of Criminal Procedure, until the certificate in accordance with Section 380 (1) sentence 3 of the Code of Criminal Procedure is issued.

by Guest 22.09.20 16:47

The press continues to use the word "abduction" and the public who can't think for themselves will repeat it like parrots.

You've gotta ask yourself - why do the McCanns insist on categorizing Madeleine's disappearance as an "abduction"?

If Kate McCann's version of events is correct, she doesn't know what happened to her daughter. She merely noticed Madeleine missing and the window and shutters open. Why jump to the definitive conclusion that Madeleine had been abducted by a stranger/pedophile? And why reinforce that idea and not consider any other possibilities?

It makes no sense for a mother who has no idea what happened to her missing child to ram down the authorities' throats that her child was the victim of an abduction, and that it could not have been anything other than an abduction.

by **PeterMac** 22.09.20 16:48

I expect to be Blocked !

:Very concerning that most commentators want him lynched, even if there is no evidence that he did IT, whatever IT was, and still less seem concerned that IT might not have happened in exactly the way or during the vanishingly small Window of Opportunity originally reported.
~If is he guilty then the prosecution will have to describe how and when he got in, took a sleeping child without waking her or the siblings, and got out, without leaving any forensic trace, within about 2 minutes between the many to-ings and fro-ings of the group as they checked on their own children, and passed and re-passed the apartment in question. 9 movements between 9.10pm and 10pm. Each taking at least 5 minutes.
So far no one has been able to put forward a credible scenario."

by Silentscope 22.09.20 17:00

Silentscope wrote:

I look forward to reading next Week how Christian B...
1. Cleaned the Floor.
2. The Wall and the Sofa.
3. Washed the Curtains.
4. Drove the Hire car.
5. Failed to delete his Phone records and Photos.

Among other things.

Post #136 refers. I have put a Cushion on the floor next to my Chair. Just in case...

by MaxHeadroom 22.09.20 17:34

Verdi wrote:Material evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead, say German prosecutors

David Crossland, Berlin
Tuesday September 22 2020, 12.00pm BST, The Times

German prosecutors have said that there is material evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead.

Well, of course there is - the evidence has been provided by Eddie and Keela 13 years ago. The rest of this gossip ist not even worth mentioning anymore as it just apes the same old "facts" (which aren't any as they've been proven wrong eons ago) for the 1000th time.

by **PeterMac** 22.09.20 21:38

The times held my comment open for a bit, but have now gone through and removed a whole heap of them
The more recent ones however are more sceptical.

Listen to the Audible podcast “Evil Has A Name”. They track down a suspect. The evidence is overwhelming. The police clearly have their man.
Then DNA evidence clears him.
Then they find another suspect. The evidence is overwhelming. This time they clearly have him.
DNA evidence clears him too.
Looking guilty doesn’t mean that person is guilty. And any suspect is innocent until proven guilty, regardless of previous convictions.
How many other people with previous convictions against children were within driving distance of the resort?

If they have evidence Maddie is dead and evidence the " prime " suspect did murder her why don't they just charge him. This news pops up every few months . Either charge him or forget it.

It may mean they have proof, a film or photo, that she is dead, that it was somewhere the prime suspect had access to, but that alone is not going to prove in a court of law that he killed her.

It could........but then......
- I suspect they have no definitive proof she is dead as they have no actual proof against the suspect
- This is getting tiresome - a macabre soap opera with no actual facts
  
  They're probably trying to prod any witnesses they may know about to come forward. They wouldn't be doing this without some sort of reason.
- It might be a soap opera to us, but crimes like this must never be allowed to lie.

by Verdi 22.09.20 22:18

Meanwhile back in tabloid land - Nick's taking the pisa again..

MADDIE HUNT Madeleine McCann witness so crucial cops sealed off entire hotel and swept the building for bugs while interviewing him

Nick Pisa

22 Sep 2020, 17:19Updated: 22 Sep 2020, 17:19

A KEY witness in the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann was considered so important Scotland Yard sealed off an entire hotel for his statement and swept the building for bugs.

German drifter Helge Busching, 50, who The Sun revealed earlier this month, was the catalyst to the recent dramatic developments in the case when he tipped off cops three years ago with vital information.

He told them convicted paedophile Christian B, who has been identified by German cops as the man responsible for Madeleine's abduction, confessed to him he had taken her in 2008.

But Busching, who we found in Corsica, did not tell police until 2017 when he was under arrest in Greece for people smuggling.

Cops in Athens initially questioned him and they thought the information so credible they tipped off the Met's Operation Grange team who have been leading the hunt for Madeleine.
'SWEPT THE PLACE FOR BUGS'

Officers flew to Athens where Busching was quizzed in a hotel in the city centre but only after sophisticated bugging equipment had been brought in to check for listening devices.

Manfred Seyferth, an ex partner in crime with Christian B and Busching, described how he had been left stunned when he heard about it.

Seyferth, who was sharing a flat in Athens with Busching, said: ''I knew he had told British police Christian B was involved and they flew to Athens when Busching and I were together in Greece.

''He told me he had something very important to tell Scotland Yard and they flew out to Athens and took over the floor of a hotel in the centre.

''Busching later told me they had swept the place for bugs and microphones because what he had to say about Madeleine and Christian B was very important.

''But he never actually told me what it was that he told Scotland Yard about Christian B and Madeleine, it must have been important because he came back a few days later with lots of money and he was hoppa (drunk) hoppa (drunk).''

According to statements seen by The Sun, Busching was asked by a Scotland Yard detective named as Mark, to look closely at Google satellite images of the Algarve.

Madeleine, three, was taken from the Portuguese coastal region in 2007 while on a family holiday with parents Kate and Gerry and her twin siblings.

Busching is said to have told cops that Christian B confessed to him at a hippy festival in Orgiva, Spain, that he had been involved in her abduction.

Earlier this month The Sun found him in Corsica where he said of Christian B:''Just one word. Guilty.''

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12739051/madeleine-mccann-witness-crucial-cops-sealed-off-entire-hotel-swept-building-bugs/

laugh

by Verdi 22.09.20 22:27

A KEY witness in the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann was considered so important Scotland Yard sealed off an entire hotel for his statement and swept the building for bugs.

Might I suggest it would be easier to take him down the local cop shop or spray the hotel with insecticide?

Cops in Athens initially questioned him and they thought the information so credible they tipped off the Met's Operation Grange team who have been leading the hunt for Madeleine.

No they haven't.

''He told me he had something very important to tell Scotland Yard and they flew out to Athens and took over the floor of a hotel in the centre.

'Busching later told me they had swept the place for bugs and microphones because what he had to say about Madeleine and Christian B was very important.

'But he never actually told me what it was that he told Scotland Yard about Christian B and Madeleine, it must have been important because he came back a few days later with lots of money and he was hoppa (drunk) hoppa (drunk).''

According to statements seen by The Sun, Busching was asked by a Scotland Yard detective named as Mark, to look closely at Google satellite images of the Algarve.

Hope that's not Mark Williams-Thomas posing as a police officer again.

splat

by MaxHeadroom 22.09.20 23:03

Verdi wrote:
According to statements seen by The Sun, Busching was asked by a Scotland Yard detective named as Mark, to look closely at Google satellite images of the Algarve.

Hope that's not Mark Williams-Thomas posing as a police officer again.

via GIPHY

How many crucial key witnesses have we had by now? And what did they really have to say? They all just said CB might have done it, they even may be sure about it, no one seems to know anything though. Reminds me of an old scientists' saying: Who knows nothing must believe everything. Which pretty much sums up all those "revelations" about CB and Madeleine in the past three months.

by Verdi 23.09.20 0:38

Maybe there is a new kid on the block to add to the never ending list of witnesses, or persons of interest - markman.

To say nothing of all the other crucial witnesses that have come to light (read bought by third party) over the past 13+ years, Germanman and his reported connections notwithstanding.

For the most part, people just go along with what they read - it's so much easier than taking the time to think for yourself. Plus, I seriously believe many people are only interested in a bit of salacious gossip they can play with.

Then comes the McCann supporter, in it's many guises, that troll cyberspace 24 hours a day seven days a week, looking for the latest commentary to favour or demolish - depending on the slant, or more to the point, where the slant.

Fora, blogs, news reports - it matters not. The muses must be there to defend the indefensible whatever the cost.

At times, it can be quite difficult to keep things on track here on CMOMM. If only people would understand and recognize the importance of the case, it would make life so much simpler but no, it's just a joke or a big lark for some.

Still here we are, we weather the storms as they come and go with the one aim always at the fore .... justice in the name of Madeleine McCann.

Onwards and upwards!

by Guest 23.09.20 1:00

Verdi wrote:For the most part, people just go along with what they read - it's so much easier than taking the time to think for yourself. Plus, I seriously believe many people are only interested in a bit of salacious gossip they can play with.

Yeah, many people prefer to be glued to their screens and listen to soundbites, instead of observing and thinking. Ain't nothing I can do about it.

Anyway, you can put out stories and gossip all you want but you cannot argue against the evidence.

The evidence is there for anyone disciplined enough to see.

by **PeterMac** 23.09.20 6:20

TIMES
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/material-evidence-that-madeleine-mccann-is-dead-say-german-prosecutors-3sndk8330

Overnight they seem to have stopped purging comments, and some more sceptics have commented. I have replied, but expect to be purged again very soon.

Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be - Page 8 146

Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be - Page 8 229

by Cammerigal 23.09.20 6:46

PeterMac wrote:TIMES
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/material-evidence-that-madeleine-mccann-is-dead-say-german-prosecutors-3sndk8330

Overnight they seem to have stopped purging comments, and some more sceptics have commented. I have replied, but expect to be purged again very soon.

Well done in getting a critical comment questioning the abduction myth into the Murdoch owned UK Times. celebrate

They usually get censored (freedom of speech in the UK anyone?).

by **PeterMac** 23.09.20 8:12

it's 8am BST time, so we'll see how long they last.

by MaxHeadroom 23.09.20 8:21

Cammerigal wrote:

Well done in getting a critical comment questioning the abduction myth into the Murdoch owned UK Times. They usually get censored (freedom of speech in the UK anyone?).

Not just in the UK - on the German Allmystery forum there is a huge, +600-page thread about Madeleine where any post gets deleted that suspects the parents, they even state that above your comment when you want to add a new comment there. When the news about CB was first revealed I registered there and wasn't aware of this and posted my first comment where I just asked some critical questions about the new "suspect", including the question of how this really exonerates the parents. Guess what happened? Within minutes my post was deleted with the reason given that the parents are not to be suspected. So you may not suspect the two actual suspects. Who says the truth needs a fast horse.

by Silentscope 23.09.20 9:36

@PeterMac

If there is a “D Notice” or Superinjunction actually in place, why does the Times seem to be Immune from it?

Would this not Apply to all News outlets?

by Silentscope 23.09.20 10:23

Friday 21st August

3:13 p.m.: Reporter tried to sound out important witnesses
The Braunschweig public prosecutor reports that a reporter allegedly used extremely questionable methods in the Maddie McCann case. As the " Braunschweiger Zeitung " reports, the journalist is said to have tried to get information using the Facebook account of an acquaintance of the witness, who also belongs to the group of witnesses in the investigation against Christian B.
According to Wolters, the witness should then have turned to the investigators. He was initially contacted by the journalist under real names, but refused to speak to him. He then used the Facebook account of a friend of the witness to get background information through lies and allegations. “We don't yet know how he came into possession of this account,” says Wolters.
"We have to protect witnesses from morally and legally questionable journalists," said Wolters spokesman on Friday to the "Braunschweiger Zeitung": "On the occasion of this unpleasant individual case, we will have to examine more closely whether and, if so, what information we are giving to the press can be published. "

_____________________________________________________________________

Post moved. Mod

by **PeterMac** 23.09.20 11:27

It would depend on the terms.
I have been very careful in the way I worded things - as we all must be.
Carter-Ruck may say they are no longer on a retainer, but I wouldn't trust them not to suddenly re-appear

Incidentally it is now 1130 BST and they're still there
Perhaps the censor is working from home

by Silentscope 23.09.20 11:37

It is only Libel if it is NOT true.

Hold fast.

criminal code

Friday 21st August

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