Ocean Club Guests Revisited

by NickE 11.06.18 20:00

polyenne wrote:Were not other T7 children the product of IVF treatment ? If so, where were they “conceived” ?
Might there be common denominators, do the “secret” medical records hide the truth ?

I agree.
I brought up, in another thread something in connection to this some weeks ago and I believe we have to try do more research about other OC guest's who stayed at OC that week.
I know it has been done over the years but it is worth a revisit and look into in what kind of organisations they were involved in and if there was something more that connected this medical people.
There are very few, confirmed red lines in the case but this is one of them.
I did some fast research myself and looked only into few of the guest's and found medical experts, people from the pharma industry a bunch of Doctor's and as we know, guys from Porton Down.
Maybe it was just a coincidence that these people stayed together with the Tapas Doctor's gang at OC that week but we also know about the IVF, the debacle with MbM's medical records and we also know that Amaral told us that MbM could had been ill.
There are often red lines that solve criminal cases and this a red line and it's worth to look into this more in detail.
There's nothing to lose.

by Verdi 13.06.18 1:17

Many thanks to NickE for raising this issue on the Show Must Go On thread.

New thread initiated to allow for further analysis and discussion.
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Mark Warner Guest List

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by Verdi 13.06.18 1:26

Thomas Cook Guest List

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by NickE 13.06.18 16:26

Thank's Verdi.
Just a couple hours ago I read a comment from a guy who said his brother is s top doctor.
This is what he says:

"It was Not a Holiday, it was a Drug Company Convention with a Holiday Bribe"

I find this very interesting considering what kind of guests who stayed at OC that week.
Balu's wife and Berry's girlfriend worked both for Pfizer if I remember correctly.

by Verdi 13.06.18 16:42

I hope it proves useful.

Personally I don't go along with this idea for a single moment. It doesn't make any sense to me.

For a start, multi-million £ pharmaceutical companies I would expect to dish out holiday sweetners to destinations far more exotic than the Ocean Club Praia da Luz, on the Portuguese Alrgarve. Hardly comparable to St. Tropez or Monaco is it.

Plus I see nothing to suggest this was happening. The investigation shows that David Payne booked the group's holiday with the exception of Dianne Webster who made her own arrangements. Also Gerry McCann organised the mini-bus transport from Faro airport to Luz, surely a bribe would be all inclusive - so to speak.

I look forward to see how this unfolds as members delve further.

by NickE 13.06.18 22:34

Verdi wrote: I hope it proves useful.

Personally I don't go along with this idea for a single moment. It doesn't make any sense to me.

For a start, multi-million £ pharmaceutical companies I would expect to dish out holiday sweetners to destinations far more exotic than the Ocean Club Praia da Luz, on the Portuguese Alrgarve. Hardly comparable to St. Tropez or Monaco is it.

Plus I see nothing to suggest this was happening. The investigation shows that David Payne booked the group's holiday with the exception of Dianne Webster who made her own arrangements. Also Gerry McCann organised the mini-bus transport from Faro airport to Luz, surely a bribe would be all inclusive - so to speak.

I look forward to see how this unfolds as members delve further.

Is there anything in the investigation files that shows the mini bus booking or that Payne booked the trip with the exception of their own words?
Receipt,tickets....

by Verdi 13.06.18 23:13

NickE wrote:Is there anything in the investigation files that shows the mini bus booking or that Payne booked the trip with the exception of their own words?
Receipt,tickets....

Not that I'm aware of but I can't see any reason why there would be. The PJ carried out a very thorough investigation, if they had reason to think something was amiss, they would have pursued it. It would be easy enough for the police to check the booking. During the rogatory interviews, there was much emphasis on the booking arrangements - who, when and why.

The Ocean Club Guest list clearly shows the group traveled through Mark Warner. I would expect that the booking was made by one or more of the group rather than a third party. It's routine policing which wouldn't necessarily be recorded in the files released into the public domain. To understand this aspect I think it essential to understand the criteria for information released by the Portuguese judiciary, following closure of a criminal investigation. I doubt it would include absolutely every element of an investigation, right down to telephone calls, service documents, informal meetings etc.

Perhaps Paulo Reis might be able to throw some light on the subject?

I still have no reason to think the booking for the holiday was made by a third party (outside the group of friends), or that David Payne or whoever made the booking and was reimbursed later. It doesn't make any sense. From my knowledge of such matters, it happens and no one asks any questions. Just look at the detail David Payne provides about the booking during his rogatory interview, as I say - easy enough to check.

Far more sensible to be guided by what is documented rather than filling in the gaps with what might have happened.

by Cammerigal 13.06.18 23:42

NickE wrote:Thank's Verdi.
Just a couple hours ago I read a comment from a guy who said his brother is s top doctor.
This is what he says:

"It was Not a Holiday, it was a Drug Company Convention with a Holiday Bribe"

I find this very interesting considering what kind of guests who stayed at OC that week.
Balu's wife and Berry's girlfriend worked both for Pfizer if I remember correctly.

The medical convention makes absolute sense. It is very common in the USA for a corporate convention where employees have less official holiday leave than Europeans. The decision makers are all corralled in one place, to receive the corporate messaging, their partners and kids are cared for and the hotel complex is filled up off peak. Organise free drinks at night and the medics are the salesman’s best friend, their premium branded products are prescribed to their patients and the NHS just picks up the premium drugs bills. Think £Billions. Mission accomplished and all tax deductible as long as there was a training element (attend the forum, listen to a lecture)
Consider that; We have no proof of flights bookings, transfers, hotel payments by the McCanns. Evasiveness about time spent in the day(tennis, tennis, tennis) and a big group of medics all in one place at one time.
Also it may indicate why there was a large government coverup, to protect the integrity of the NHS and NHS key employees from scrutiny by the UK public.
Death of a small child and the cover up on a corporate jolly during election time is not a labour vote winner.

by Verdi 14.06.18 0:57

Always been my point - where are the conference room facilities available to host these 'meetings of minds'? Not the Ocean Club I'll wager. Hotels across the globe always advertise conference facilities if available - the Ocean Club is a third rate family holiday destination for sun, sea and sport so where exactly did these conferences/meetings take place? I ask the same of Textusa and the swinging theory - where did this communal swinging take place?

Thomas Cook's website. The Ocean Club resort, Praia da Luz, the Algarve..

Facilities

Two outdoor pools
Kids' pool
Sunloungers and parasols
Pool towels
Two pool snack bars (one Jun-Sep only)
Five tennis courts (three Jun-Sep only, coaching available)
Aquaerobics (July/Aug only)
Poolsode massage pagoda (Jun-Sep, subject to availability)
Table tennis
Pool table
Mountain bike hire
Hotel-run kids' dance/performance camp (4yrs+, planned) Jul/Aug and soccer camp (planned) in Aug
Playground
Highchairs
Reception
Wi-Fi (selected areas)
Mini-market
Laundry service
Weekly live entertainment and family fun events (Jul/Aug)
..................

Go with the evidence - not the absence of evidence.

by Cammerigal 14.06.18 11:47

Verdi wrote:Always been my point - where are the conference room facilities available to host these 'meetings of minds'? Not the Ocean Club I'll wager. Hotels across the globe always advertise conference facilities if available - the Ocean Club is a third rate family holiday destination for sun, sea and sport so where exactly did these conferences/meetings take place? I ask the same of Textusa and the swinging theory - where did this communal swinging take place?

Thomas Cook's website. The Ocean Club resort, Praia da Luz, the Algarve..

Facilities

Two outdoor pools
Kids' pool
Sunloungers and parasols
Pool towels
Two pool snack bars (one Jun-Sep only)
Five tennis courts (three Jun-Sep only, coaching available)
Aquaerobics (July/Aug only)
Poolsode massage pagoda (Jun-Sep, subject to availability)
Table tennis
Pool table
Mountain bike hire
Hotel-run kids' dance/performance camp (4yrs+, planned) Jul/Aug and soccer camp (planned) in Aug
Playground
Highchairs
Reception
Wi-Fi (selected areas)
Mini-market
Laundry service
Weekly live entertainment and family fun events (Jul/Aug)
..................

Go with the evidence - not the absence of evidence.

Oh so very simple Verdi. The PDL golf club would be the conference venue.
Where would my America CEO and salesman love to be based? Where does business really get done? Where would you best get Gerry McCann the keen golfer and member of Rothley Park golf club to consider your drugs? Gerry NEVER mentions going to the PDL golf club during his weeks holiday ( absence of evidence) but yet I believe there are phone pings showing his presence there.
The miserable ocean club was simply for the NHS WAGS and the kids.
The swinging, peados and high profile VIP connections are all smoke screens. It’s all about the GOLF. The silence surrounding it is deafening.

by **Jill Havern** 14.06.18 12:01

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by sallypelt 14.06.18 12:26

Jill Havern wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Does anyone know the name of the golf course where the pic was taken?

by **Jill Havern** 14.06.18 12:44

Wasn't it the Boavista Golf & Spa Resort?

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by sallypelt 14.06.18 12:58

Jill Havern wrote:Wasn't it the Boavista Golf & Spa Resort?

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Thanks, Jill. I am looking at the three nearest resorts to the Ocean Club, and the Boavista is the one that I am finding VERY interesting

Maybe some members would like to check out the accommodation and the play areas. The other two courses, not too far from the Ocean Club are the Espiche, and the Palmares, but it's the Boasvista that has grabbed my attention, with the tennis courts, play area and the colour of the accommodation.

Again, this may be old ground, but I haven't been aware of it.

by **Jill Havern** 14.06.18 13:09

It never hurts to revisit old topics, we have new members joining here all the time and they may also not have seen it.

by Doug D 14.06.18 16:52

Link to GA’s interview above led me to look again at the usually forgotten about photo’s taken the next day, showing the wardrobe with the ‘blue bag’ gone.

I have taken this over to the ‘Blue Bag’ thread at:

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by NickE 14.06.18 18:18

Uncle John was not a guest but he worked for Astra Zeneca.
Just to mention.

EDIT: Does anyone knows what the Carpenter's profession was?
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by willowthewisp 14.06.18 18:52

Hi NickE,is that Mr Stephen Carpenter,who was with Russel O'Brien when introducing Robert Murat Friday 4 May 2007?

I think Stephen carpenter was into Construction,building work,where one of his contractors was owed money from unpaid contracted work he had done,the contractor took the Law into his own hands and damaged Mr Carpenters property,when the said contractor was committed to Court, Mr Bennett knows about that case if it is the same Mr Carpenter?

by Doug D 14.06.18 19:28

Surname: CARPENTER
First name. STEPHEN

Profession: Maintenance Technician
Date of Statement: 21/04/2008- Number of pages : 1

by NickE 14.06.18 20:20

Doug D wrote:Surname: CARPENTER
First name. STEPHEN

Profession: Maintenance Technician
Date of Statement: 21/04/2008- Number of pages : 1

Thank you.
Do we also know what his wife Carolyn's profession was?

by Verdi 16.06.18 1:32

Cammerigal wrote:Oh so very simple Verdi. The PDL golf club would be the conference venue.

I await evidence of when, where and why this presumed meet of 'talking heads' took place at a golf club at an unidentified venue in PDL. One thing I'm certain of - if indeed it did happen, the PJ would have been aware.

Until then I remain my customary cynical self smilie

.

by NickE 16.06.18 20:59

sallypelt wrote:
Jill Havern wrote:Wasn't it the Boavista Golf & Spa Resort?

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Thanks, Jill. I am looking at the three nearest resorts to the Ocean Club, and the Boavista is the one that I am finding VERY interesting

Maybe some members would like to check out the accommodation and the play areas. The other two courses, not too far from the Ocean Club are the Espiche, and the Palmares, but it's the Boasvista that has grabbed my attention, with the tennis courts, play area and the colour of the accommodation.

Again, this may be old ground, but I haven't been aware of it.

[size=49] [/size]

[size=49] [/size]

John Geraghty was a member of Boavista GC.
Was not he the man who handed over the church keys to the McCann's and stored their rental car?

by NickE 16.06.18 22:54

Can anyone remember from the statements that Tanner/O'Brien stated that they met up with the Gorrods?
And on what day?
Snipped from the Sunday Express, Sep 9 2007:
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by Verdi 17.06.18 0:30

Jane Tanner's witness statement - 10th May 2007

In the tourist complex last Sunday, 30 April, she net a copule she knew from Exeter, Jim and C. G., with their son of 20 months, B.G. She knew they had travelled on the same day as her, on a different flight. Asked, she relates that they had a hired car, not knowing the brand, model or colour. He (Jim) liked to surf and that was why he had hired the car.

Jane Tanner's rogatory interview - 8th April 2008

Reply “Yeah this is the one I think it would be, this is erm, this is Charlotte, my friend in Exeter who was actually out in Portugal with us when we were there, but I think I rang her, she went home on the Saturday and she hadn’t taken her mobile out with her, cos I’d (inaudible) texted her, that day we were supposed to go, it was her husband’s birthday, I must have, I’ve still got the text on here that she, we were supposed to go to their apartment for a barbecue at lunch time, so I text her in the morning and said, (inaudible) text (inaudible), there you go, I text her in the morning and said that, so you see what time that is and but she didn’t answer so, cos she hadn’t got her mobile phone”.

4078 “No”.
Reply “With her, so I rang her when she was home, that’s (inaudible) I want to talk to her then”.

4078 “But we’ve got that record that you texted her, I think you actually texted her the evening before as well”.

Reply “That was to say do we need to erm bring, I think she was saying, come up for the afternoon, I think it was something along the lines of, do we need to bring food or something along those lines cos we were going for, for lunch”.

4078 “Yes”.
Reply “Cos it was Jim’s birthday”.
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I'd be inclined to take the Express article with a very large sack of salt.

by Verdi 17.06.18 0:58

I have never seen anything to indicate that the McCanns, or any of their group of friends, played golf at any time during the week 28th April/3rd May or went to any local golf course or club. Had it happened, the PJ would have been aware for sure.

From Kate McCann's autobiographical chiclit..

In our spare time Gerry and I would go out for meals with friends or run in the fields around Queniborough. Gerry played the occasional game of squash and joined Rothley Park Golf Club. Life, then, was full and busy, and good, apart from the dark shadow cast over everything by the absence of any developments on the pregnancy front.
~~~

I’d never been to Portugal, although Gerry had been there on a couple of golfing trips a few years before. From people who had taken holidays in the Algarve I gathered that it was a quite upmarket, family-friendly destination. We had never been on a Mark Warner holiday, either, but the others had, to Sardinia and Greece. Everybody had been very impressed by the locations, accommodation and amenities.
~~~

4 December 2010: We went to the Leicestershire and Rutland Irish Golf Society dinner dance last night [the proceeds were being donated to Madeleine’s Fund]. It was a really good ‘do’ – lovely people and great music. We definitely felt ‘safe’ and most importantly, among friends. Gerry and I danced for a large part of the evening. We hadn’t danced since Madeleine was taken. We actually enjoyed it. It felt a little strange but I wasn’t consumed with guilt as is often the case in these situations. Gerry looked really happy, almost glowing. It felt good to share some smiles and laughter with my lovely husband.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN
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The photojournalist Brian Bould worked with the Daily Mail for donkey's years. I think this photograph was taken from a Daily Mail report and most likely from the Rothley golf club ..

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I can't locate at the moment but seeing as it's a tabloid I don't think it's worth much effort. If I come across it, I'll stick it on the Media Mayhem thread - where it belongs.