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All together at the Ocean Club

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All together at the Ocean Club

Post by justcurious on 25.03.12 12:42


Imagine with an open mind we've all gone on a MW all-inclusive holiday to the OC.

We've all paid the same price.

On arrival we are told all the meals are half board and are at the Mill. The dinners are a self service buffet the usual variety of limp starters, a variety of hot/cold main courses (all warm). Red/white plonk and a selection of hot and cold desserts (all warm).

We are not greatly impressed but then we are told by the management there are 20 places available if we are eagerly prepared to queue every morning we can have a proper restaurant dinner with waiter service. There is a selection of fresh individually prepared starters, a selection of main courses, fillet steak etc, (cooked just how you like it) a selection of wines and wonderful desserts, followed by coffee and liqueurs.

So next morning bright and early we are eagerly queuing when a rumour sweeps the line. Only 10 places are available each night this week
Why, why, we cry.......,? we are told there is a VIP group who have grabbed the best dinners all week
Why, why, we cry....... ?

Oh, they are too lazy to walk to the Mill. Too tight to pay, £10 an hour for a MW baby sitter and are so into each other, they cannot bear to be apart to babysit their own kids on a rota basis, so you plebs don't matter.

Injustice, anger, disgruntlement sweep the queue, this is not fair, we have all paid the same and are entitled to the good grub, on an equality share basis.

We are British fair play after all!

We march on the management but MW are clever operators, as a commercial company dealing with the public, they don't want angry irate customers claiming favouritism and unfairness every morning. We are informed everyone is treated the same. Why would they pick 20 from 200 to upset the rest of the guests?
We are told they are happy if you eat at the Tapas, or anywhere else, if either you pay or somebody else pays out, not MW. So we are all to be treated by MW the same they tell us it is the only way they can do their costings.

As a result there are no angry crowds around the management desk every morning and no queues at the Tapas. We walk away in groups thinking its odd people have spent 100's of pounds for meals at the Mill and are now paying to eat somewhere else.

Some people thinks perhaps they don't care as the holiday is free to them.




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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by juliet on 25.03.12 13:46

I am a bit puzzled by this restaurant, that could apparently only manage about 20 meals a night. Weren't there earlier and later sittings? And if the Tapas 9 or so were half the night's customers, for a whole week, surely the staff would be very aware of them and their comings and goings.
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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 25.03.12 13:53

I still haven't seen a link to say that the tapas bar was not included justcurious. If you would provide one then of course that would be very helpful. You asked me to provide links, I have, the ones I could find, I can't find anything from MW, so can you provide a link from 2007. In the meantime here is a statement of a waiter who worked at the Ocean Club for 14 years............

Witness statement

Luis Miguel de Sousa Barros

Date: 2007/05/08

Occupation: Barman Millenium Restaurant

Place of Work: Ocean Club

He has worked at the Ocean Club for 14 years, always at the Millenium which is the only restaurant in the OC that serves breakfast.
Inside that restaurant and especially at this time of year they only serve lunch on Sundays, called Sunday lunch (typically British), normally serving dinners with the possibility of eating on the terrace or esplanade for serving barbecues on Wednesdays. He does not work shifts and neither does he have fixed hours. His work requires responsibility and he is usually one of the last persons to leave, there being some margin for starting later the following day. Recently, given the scarcity of personnel, he has only had one day off a week. This is always a Thursday, coinciding with the day Madeleine disappeared.

The witness said he was dining with his wife, son and friends in a restaurant in P da L, before 24.00 he received a call to his mobile from the fixed network phone in the Millenium restaurant, informing him about the disappearance.

It was his colleague Nelson who contacted. He was not asked anything in particular, just informed, however he felt that he should go to the resort, which he did immediately, making himself available for whatever was needed. He remembered that there was great panic amongst all the people looking for Madeleine. He helped search, remaining at the OC until 05.00, searching the entire resort. They did not find anything to help locate the child. He was shown a photograph of Madeleine, once they were distributed, not just by the press, but also stuck up around the resort, in shop windows and the windows of cars.

He remembered being in the presence of the group Madeleine belonged to, composed of nine adults and eight children on the 28th April, the day they arrived at the resort. Apart from breakfast, which they would eat every day in the Millenium restaurant, dinner on Saturday night was the only meal they had there because the Tapas bar did not serve dinner on Saturdays. He remembered that Saturdays dinner was a buffet service and that he had been very close to the group, giving them all the necessary indications related to the service. In spite not recalling Madeleine's exact features, he presumes she was there with the other children present. He did not notice anything particular about the girl, nor was there any difference in the normal tranquillity in spite of the fact that there were 8 children.

He does not remember serving breakfast to the group, given that this would occur before he began work.

When asked he says that on a date he cannot remember, the group, just the adults because the children were dining with the nannies, had been too late in making their dinner reservation at the Tapas, and an exception was made, authorised by his boss Steve, as the Tapas only provides for 20 dinners for half board clients as was the case
.

He think that this request was made in order to be close to the children who had their meals with the nannies, and to be close to the apartments.

He has nothing else to add.
Reads, ratifies, signs.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUIS_BARROS.htm


I read from the above, that 20 meals were provided to guests staying on half board.
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All together at the Ocean Club

Post by justcurious on 25.03.12 16:35

Why do some people seem so desperate to divert from considering who paid for the holiday.

Lets accept for a moment (only a moment) the Tapas was included in the MW package so they wouldn't have had to pay for the food and drinks. So why was a Tapas waiter flown to England to give a rogatory statement in which he states on the 1st or 2nd night at the Tapas they were offered free liqueurs for being such good clients. Why would a restaurant give a reward for being such clients if there was nothing to pay?

Kate McCann on Pg 326 of her book, states how unreliable the memories of the waiting staff were.

And finally, Jane Tanner states only the Mill restaurant was included in the package, now you would think she would know what was what, as she was actually there at that time, not you or I.

I'm afraid its too late, the truth is coming, whether you like it or not.

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 25.03.12 16:44

@justcurious wrote:Why do some people seem so desperate to divert from considering who paid for the holiday.

Lets accept for a moment (only a moment) the Tapas was included in the MW package so they wouldn't have had to pay for the food and drinks. So why was a Tapas waiter flown to England to give a rogatory statement in which he states on the 1st or 2nd night at the Tapas they were offered free liqueurs for being such good clients. Why would a restaurant give a reward for being such clients if there was nothing to pay?

Kate McCann on Pg 326 of her book, states how unreliable the memories of the waiting staff were.

And finally, Jane Tanner states only the Mill restaurant was included in the package, now you would think she would know what was what, as she was actually there at that time, not you or I.

I'm afraid its too late, the truth is coming, whether you like it or not.

I hope the truth does come out, that is what we all want. So because KM states the memories of the waiting staff are unreliable, that is taken as fact. What about the statements of the tapas 9?

As for JT thinking she would know as she was there at the time. I am quoting this below for you, and I know who I would believe



Okay, I have spent a couple of hours looking up the FACTS. The Tapas WAS included. Here are 3 more witness statements from people who worked at the OC, and for many years, not friends of Clarence Mitchell, and with no reason to lie. In future justcurious, if you don't have a link to substantiate your facts, then please do not post them as facts. Here is what you said. And looking at your posting history, you have said it over and over, with only 2 posts out of all your postings being on another subject. You have bought this up in different threads. I wonder why? Some of your postings below. I am not one for arguments justcurious, but I certainly am one for FACTS and not forum myths.

candyfloss rainbow-fairy

I have absolutely no idea who Andrew Oxedale is.

I mentioned a friend of C.M. Andrew OXLADE who wrote a piece on P da L. for This is Money. Andrew Oxlade & C.M. both worked for BBC news in London between 2002-2005. and have met at media and press functions since.
So it appears you are basing the statement of the tapas dinners as part of the inclusive package on the say so of Rachel Oldfield and a workmate of C.Mitchell.
But Mark Warner Holidays state the tapas is not included . WHO WOULD YOU BELIEVE? by justcurious
on Yesterday at 7:09 pm
Search in: Debate Section - for purporting theories





And another of your argumentative posts.............

Why didn't you come last night...?
This is crazy

Rachel Oldfield is a proven liar,so why do you believe her? The tapas was not busy.(see booking formsPJ files)

On 2 May 17 diners before Mac gang.On 3 May 19 diners before mac gang in 2 hours.Hardly rushed off their feet.

I ask again why did you muddy my post by referring spuriously to a Andrew Oxedale and await proof from a MW source, brochure or web the tapas was included in the package.
My experience of Maddie's resort in Praia de Luz, the Algarve
Where is the evidence the tapas meals were part of the all inclusive M.W.package.Please give the M.W.brochure page or website details.Writing in big bold letters does not make a thing true! by justcurious
on Yesterday at 3:18 pm
Search in: Press Archives
Topic: My experience of Maddie's resort in Praia de Luz, the Algarve
Replies: 2
Views: 175



Why didn't you come last night...?
Could anyone please show where MW included the tapas as part of their all-inclusive packages then or now. Brochure, website, something official from MW. Not a letter from a friend of Clarence Mitchell.

Why would eager guests queue when you could just make a block booking for the week as the McCanns did? High demand, this is not what the PJ files show,nor the tapas booking forms. by justcurious
on Yesterday at 2:48 pm
Search in: Debate Section - for purporting theories
Topic: Why didn't you come last night...?
Replies: 225
Views: 7945




So who is browbeating who? Now where YOUR proof of this. You ask me for proof I have given it. Where is your proof? Below are THREE more people who work at the OC at the time, are you saying they are all lying? I don't think they are friends of Clarence Mitchell either, unless of course you know different.


Vitor Manuel dos Santos

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 11H00
Housing Departmental Manager
Portuguese

• Has worked in his current role for seven years, and in total has worked for the complex for 18 years;
• His duties consist of the management of reservations and control of contractual transactions with private individuals and with travel agencies;
• He is also responsible for the management and supervision of the reception;
• The witness affirms that, as is normal practice, he received the manifest with the McCann reservations through the Mark Warner agency, who is represented by Mr. John Hill;
• This manifest consisted is normally composed of specifics for each booking, and as is regular, a ground-floor apartment in order that the family may have easier access with small children;
Adds that this family, arranged to stay from the 28th of April until the 5th of May 2007 with half-pension, which means breakfast and dinner were inclusive. For dinner, the guests may opt for two restaurants—the Tapas or Millenium even though the food is identical at both. The selection of which is a matter of distance to the apartment;
• In this case, it is rational to choose the “Tapas” as it is around 100 meters from their [McCann] apartment as opposed to the “Millenium” which is about 600 meters from said place;
• From the restaurant, it is possible to see part of the apartment front, which includes the lounge of the McCann apartment. The room where the children slept, is completely out of the vision of anyone who may be in the “Tapas” bar;
• Therefore, the best solution would be to leave the children in the parent’s bedroom or in the lounge area, where it would have been easier to facilitate the watching of the locale in question from where the parents dined;
• A “baby sitting” service, also available, runs from 19H30 to 23H30 and the witness affirms that such service are free to guests;
• He does not understand why the McCanns did not request this service, as it is free of charge;
• Prior to the disappearance, he had no contact of any type with the family and only knew them as one of hundreds of other guests who frequent the complex;
• In regards to the disappearance, on the 3rd of May, 2007, he remembers that around 22H00/22H15, he received a telephone call from the receptionist—Helder, who informed him that John Hill wanted to speak to him urgently in regards to a child who had gone missing and that the G.N.R. who had already been contacted, had yet to arrive. He added that he had already called them various times and was told that they would arrive as soon as possible as they were taking care of a robbery in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked whether he could contact the P.S.P., but he told him no, as this area was covered by the G.N.R.;
• Given the circumstances, the witness immediately left to the complex to assess the situation;
• He reached the locale, 15 minutes later, went directly to the reception, where the G.N.R. had already arrived and were collecting a deposition from Gerry McCann;
• The witness then went to the apartment, where he found a number of people, and noticed that there was no sign of attempted robbery or of forced entry;
• States that he heard in the area that the mother had not left the blinds open and would always shut the blinds when she left the apartment. He did not notice anything abnormal in relation to the residence or the immediate area;
• The witness affirms that the complex does not have any type of security, or CCTV;
• Affirms that at no time did he notice something or someone out of the ordinary/suspicious, concerning the children;
• The witness was asked a copy of the booking/room list outlining all the elements/reservations made by the guests and the family in question which is available immediately following this statement;
• Witness affirms that he nothing else to record that could help the investigation.


Processos

Volume II

Pages 420 - 422



Sandro Miguel Moreira Sampaio da Silva
Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H45
Receptionist

Concerning the issue of the process said;
. The deponent affirms that he exercises his functions as receptionist in the establishment, for about eight years;
. In that which concerns the facts that are now being investigated, the current witness affirms that, as is normal, they received the family of Madeleine McCann, with importance to note that their stay was made b intermediary of the Mark Warner agency, who is represented by John Hill;
. States that this business has as its policy to cater to all needs of the clients, which means that there is practically no contact between the clients and the reception;
. Further adds that this family, like all the Mark Warner clients, are placed into a half-pension regime—breakfast and dinner. For diner, the clients can opt for two restaurants, the Tapas of the Millennium, with the first being ‘service a la carte’ and the second ‘buffet’ with the clients choosing not just for food, but for questions of proximity in relation to their living quarters. However, the current witness states that the guests have informed him that the Tapas restaurant is of better quality but is much more difficult to arrange a reservation as it has fewer places;
. In this case, the rationale choice for a family to dine is the Tapas, since it is 40 metres in distance from the apartment, as opposed to the Millennium which is around 200 metres from the same;
. The current deponent does not know the room location where the three children slept, however, at being informed that they stayed in the side opposite the apartment, the deponent affirms that this division is completely outside the direct line of sight from the Tapas restaurant;
. Because the solution most acceptable would have been to leave the children with a ‘baby sitter’ or take them to a small children’s playground that exists in front of the restaurant ‘Tapas’ where one could easily watch the area from where they were sitting;
. In regards to the question of an available service of ‘Baby Sitting’, between 19H30 and 23H30, he affirms that he knows of the existence of this service and that it is free;
. Questioned, the current deponent responds that he does not understand why Madeleine McCanns’s parent never used this service, given that it was free;
. The question made affirms that before the disappearance of the child, he had no type of contact with this family and that only as clients as is the case with hundreds of others who frequent the establishment;
. He only remembers one situation where Madeleine McCann’s father came to the reception in order to solicit a service maintenance request where he asked someone from maintenance to come to his apartment to explain how to turn on the cooker, and to effect repairs on a blind in the room in which he stayed as it was damaged;
. Referring to the date of the disappearance, the 3rd of May, 2007, he remembers that on this day he worked from 08H00 to 16H00, and only returned to work the next morning;
. Just on this day, when he arrived, is when he became aware of what had occurred, having been informed by neighbours and colleagues;
. For this fact, he had little direct awareness, and only knows what was transmitted to him through third parties, and through the media;
. He affirms that at no moment, did not notice the presence of anyone with an abnormal comportment, in that which concerns the children, or other that seemed to be of a suspicious nature;
. The current deponent affirms that he does not know of any element that may help reveal itself useful to the discourse of the investigation;
. And nothing more said, having read the statement, finds it in conformity and signs it;
. The document is duly signed by me …

Processos Vol III

Pages 569 - 571

Date: 2007/05/08

Luisa Ana de Noronha de Azevedo Coutinho

Occupation: Receptionist

Place of work: Ocean Club


She has been a receptionist at the Garden for 1 year, but has worked there previously.

The OC Garden reception has less functions than the main reception and deals with subjects relating to activities (Pool, Tennis) etc and excursions.

She points out that the family in question came via Mark Warner and this company takes care of all relations with clients and there is practically no contact between the clients and reception.

She adds that this family (McCann), like all MW clients had half-board, that is breakfast and dinner. For dinner the guests could choose between two restaurants, the Tapas and the Millenium, the first being à la carte and the second a buffet service, clients make their choice not only because of the food but because of the proximity of the restaurant to their accommodation. She says that the guests told her that the Tapas was of better quality but that it was difficult to reserve there as a MW guest as the MW daily quota was of only 20.

In this concrete case the reasonable option was the Tapas as the distance was only 40 metres from the accommodation as opposed to 200 m from the Millenium.

She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30.

When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company.

The man justified his request by saying that the group had many small children whom they would leave alone when they went to dine. She said that at intervals some two parents would go to the apartments to see if everything was OK.

The deponent made some comments about the request, saying that the Tapas received many requests and that MW only had a quota of 20 per day, but upon the insistence of the guest she managed to make the bookings requested.

She confirms that it was possible to see the apartment from the restaurant, including the window of the sitting room.

She does not know in which bedroom the children were sleeping but upon being informed that it was on the opposite side of the apartment she confirmed that it would be completely out of sight from anyone at the restaurant.

That the most viable solution would be to leave the children with a baby sitter, which is the procedure normally adopted by clients.

Regarding the question as to the availability of the baby sitting service between 19.30 and 23.30, she confirms that the service exists and that it is free of charge.


When questioned, she says that she does not understand, as the service is free, why the parents of Madeleine McCann did not use it.

When asked she says that the contact with this family was normal, like with other clients and describes them as “nice”.

With regard to the date of the disappearance she says that she worked from 09.00 to 19.00 and only returned at 08.00 on 4th May.

It was on this day at 08.30 when she arrived that she was informed about the disappearance by colleagues.

She only knows what third parties have told her and from what she has seen in the press.

She never saw anything strange. During this interview she provided a book with the reservations for the Tapas restaurant.

No more was said, reads, ratifies and signs.


http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net
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All together at the Ocean Club

Post by justcurious on 25.03.12 17:00

I think you are proving my point

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 25.03.12 17:05

@justcurious wrote:I think you are proving my point

Well, justcurious, you are certainly proving mine. Please provide a link to your statements of fact.
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Happy in a nanny state

Post by Cheshire Cat on 25.03.12 20:39

This is such an interesting article because it was written on 21 April 2007 and gives a very honest account of the Mark Warner experience in Praia Da Luz.

It only mentions the Millenium restaurant as being included in the half-board price and there is no mention at all of the Tapas being an option within the half-board arrangement. And by the sound of things, if the reviewer had another option (included in the price) she would have tried it out!!

Fast forward to 3 March 2007... the Control Risks people had been called in by Mark Warner at an early stage, perhaps because they were actually dealing with a corporate client with the Tapas staff briefed to say that there were two options for meals when there was really only one.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/portugal/740884/Happy-in-a-nanny-state.html

Happy in a nanny state

Melinda Libby and her children throw themselves into the activities offered by a Mark Warner holiday in a real village in the Western Algarve.


12:01AM BST 21 Apr 2007

Many years ago when I was a twenty-something, I set off from Britain in a fast car driven by a boyfriend. We were heading for a villa in Portugal owned by the parents of a friend and we left Tooting without tickets, itinerary or the address of the villa; we knew what town it was in but nothing more.
These days, as a forty-something single parent of an 11-year-old girl and a nine-year-old boy, I like to be a bit more organised. But not too organised.
We had tried the everything-on-tap style holiday at Mark Warner's San Agostino resort in Greece, where we were hermetically sealed into an all-inclusive resort in a beautiful coastal location. It offered us comfortable accommodation, agreeable food, a choice of swimming pools, a wide range of activities (particularly tennis and watersports) and excellent childcare.
But, like Mark Warner's other resorts, it was remote and there was little opportunity to get out and explore the surrounding area. One day at San Agostino, I found myself getting exceptionally excited by the tiny chapel on the perimeter of the village and realised that I hankered after a bit of real life, and - more to the point - Greek real life.
So when we heard that Mark Warner, in a departure from its usual format, had taken over some apartments within the Ocean Club in Praia de Luz, a real Portuguese village in the Western Algarve, we were one of the first families to sign up.
The Ocean Club has groups of villas and apartments integrated within the village. This would give us more freedom than in a traditional club-style resort and more chance to absorb the local culture - but there would still be the children's groups and activities that make these holidays so popular with families.
In traditional Mark Warner style, we were helped at Gatwick and greeted by cheerful staff when we reached Faro.
But when, on a dark night, the bus dropped us with our luggage at the door of our beachside apartment, we felt very alone without the usual support structure.
We had a map to show us where to go for breakfast and the location of the welcome meeting - yes, they still offered that - but I had a restless night worrying whether we would find all the facilities that the Ocean Club had to offer.
And with good reason. Map-reading has never been my strong point, but I became anxious when, the following morning, we asked various people the way to the Millennium Restaurant, where breakfast and dinner is served for Mark Warner guests - and no one seemed to know.
We eventually found our way thanks to a chance encounter with a couple from London. Thanks to their sense of direction, we managed to get some breakfast and formed a rewarding friendship for the duration of the holiday. While the trip was mostly agreeable from our point of view, many other Mark Warner regulars begged to differ.
The distances between accommodation, watering holes and activities became a real bugbear for some, particularly those with small children.
Some guests resorted, in desperation, to hiring a car before their holiday was over. For us, the 12-minute uphill walk to dinner each evening was irksome, but the walk back down to the beach after the meal and entertainment was extremely pleasant. It was on one of these walks that Bertie, my nine-year-old, confided that he much preferred being in a real village to a club-style resort.
The other constant moan was the food: old Mark Warner hands became wistful as they talked about chefs at the other resorts who would boil an egg to their specification in front of their eyes. Quite a contrast to the unappetising fried eggs with hard yolks - not to mention dry croissants and tinned fruit - which were provided for breakfast at the Millennium Restaurant.
At other meals, people missed the wide range of fresh salads that they had enjoyed on previous Mark Warner holidays. And although there were some themed nights, and the Portuguese evening included some excellent squid and a cuttlefish stew, International Night was cruelly renamed "leftovers night".
Guests were, though, generally happy with their accommodation - because, although the holidays are sold on a half-board basis, the apartments had facilities for self-catering and were larger than a traditional Mark Warner hotel room.
And the children's activities really made the holiday come into its own. Before we arrived in Portugal, I had laid down the rules with the offspring. "Each day you'll be off to the children's clubs for all the activities," I told them. "Oh no we won't," they trilled.
I was willing to negotiate: as long as they attended for a morning or afternoon session each day, I would be content. As it turned out, they barely missed a session and sometimes they were so exhausted that I had to persuade them not to go.
Bertie was particularly delighted that he had no time at all to read any of the books that I had carefully selected for the holiday. They both enjoyed the watersports and were soon educating me in the names of the different sorts of boats or telling me they had seen dolphins or caught a fish. They swam, played games on the beach and, at the end of each week, performed a show which they had written themselves.
But what really made the clubs such a success for them, and what must be the secret of Mark Warner's popularity, was the dedication of the indefatigable nannies and the sunkissed young men (with names such as Will and Olly) who run the waterfront and tennis activities.
In a world of depressingly bad service, their energy, enthusiasm and cheerfulness made everything seem possible. The set-up in Praia de Luz was particularly appealing to teenage guests, who could spread their wings and dip in and out of the various activities and hostelries in the village.
While the children were at their clubs, I spent time on the beach or exploring the village: I found the butcher, the baker and a few clothes and gift shops. Later, with a group of Mark Warner guests, I went on a coastal walk to the pretty fishing village of Burgau, with cliff-top views of the craggy Western Algarve coastline and the wide expanse of yellow, sandy beaches.
Some Mark Warner regulars will never be happy in a situation where the environment isn't controlled, even if all the usual facilities - three swimming pools, tennis courts, two restaurants and four bars - are available. They don't want to share a pool with non-Mark Warner guests, nor do they want someone in a green, furry alien costume to appear at dinner, allegedly to entertain children (an experience described as "shocking" by a seasoned traveller with Mark Warner).
But, as far as we were concerned, the venture was a success. After two weeks, I was thoroughly rested and fit. And the children were distraught at leaving Praia de Luz and the nannies they had grown so fond of. Several weeks later, their conversations were still peppered with happy reminiscences of their days spent in the care of Natalie, Becky, Lucy, Chloe and Laura.

Praia basics



  • A week with Mark Warner (0870 898 8942, www.markwarner.co.uk ) at the Ocean Club, Praia de Luz costs from £545 per adult, two weeks from £699; child prices vary according to age, but start at £273/£350 for children aged two to 12; those under two are charged £100 a week. This includes flights, transfers, accommodation with breakfast and dinner, childcare for children aged two and over and use of tennis courts and activities such as sailing and windsurfing tuition, canoeing, aerobics and fitness classes
  • . Diving courses, tennis coaching and tuition for RYA sailing qualifications cost extra, as does the crèche for children under two (from £230 a week
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All together at the Ocean Club

Post by justcurious on 26.03.12 14:08

Candyfloss

Can we engage in a sensible debate? You quote the statement of Luis Barros as proof the Tapas was included in the MW half board package. For reasons clearly outlined by Cheshire Cat above, many think these statements have been manipulated however, for the purposes of debate, lets go with them.

Only 20 dinners were provided at the Tapas for MW half board guests.

So logically there would be no more than 20 MW half board guests on the booking sheets each night.

But there are not, there are more.

So why is this.

MW will only pay for the first 20 dinners for half board guests at the Tapas. According to your facts in the statements, you can get identical food free, just up the road at the Mill as part of their prepaid package but some of these half boarders decide to pay again, can you explain this? Don't you find it odd.

Examples
1st May 26 MW half boarders
2nd May 27 MW half boarders
3rd May 32 MW half boarders

The simple explanation is those at the Tapas were either paying for themselves or a corporate firm was picking up the bills, which changes the whole dynamic of what happened. Who paid for these meals is the key to everything, I just hope my posts will make people think but no, I am not to going to land myself in the same position as T Bennett.

Police statement of waiter Saledas "on 1st or 2nd night at the Tapas they were offered free liqueurs for being such good clients". Does he mean big spenders? and what did they spend if it was already paid for in their package?

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 26.03.12 15:25

Justcurious, you may be right, you may not be. The thing is you have shown no proof at all, not a single link. I on the other hand have posted up 4 different witnesses who worked at the OC, plus the article from the editor of This is Money, Andrew Oxedale. I have said before to you that you are saying these things as FACTS, when you do not provide the proof. As an opinion that is fine, if you said it was your opinion, then that is different. When I altered your post to add imo after you stated these things as facts, that is when you got on your high horse. Everyone is entitled to a view, but you must say it is your view not a fact.

As to the drink, from what I read in the statement below it was not included. As far as I am aware Half Board holidays do not include drink only All Inclusive. I know this because when I have been to Spain, Cyprus, Lanzarote, etc., we were on Half Board, and those on all inclusive did get free drinks, Half Boarders didn't. All inclusive people either had a card, had to show their room number, or had wristbands to entitle them to the drinks. Also every night we used to get free drinks from the barman. In Spain and Cyprus, they would let us try out their special cocktails, simply because we did spend our time in their bars, and not go out to other places.

Here is the statement.........

Processos Volume III, pages 602 to 604 (pdf 81-83)

Witness statement of Tiago Rochas Barreiros 2007.05.08

Work Location: Ocean Club

That he comes to the process as a witness. He has worked at the Ocean Club (OC) resort for about two months exercising his function as Tapas Supervisor (restaurant, bar and pool) in the Ocean Club Garden.

That prior to this, he worked at the Hotel Suites Alba Resort and Spa in Albandeira beach, Carvoeiro, in the restaurant area for about one year.

As a supervisor, his functions include all the operational workings of the space known as the Tapas. His normal hours are defined by need although he does have a set work schedule.

That his work location is comprised of the restaurant, pool and bar of the Ocean Club Garden, dominated by the Tapas.

That he became aware of the situation that occurred at the OC with respect to the disappearance of a child when he arrived at the Tapas around 22H00/22H30. He was immediately informed at arriving by work colleagues.

That after finding out what happened he immediately proceeded to join some searches next to the pool and the apartment zone around the resort. He stayed in the OC until around 01H30 when he left with his girlfriend.

That he knows the family of the missing child as they were clients of the Tapas restaurant which they began frequenting the 2nd day of their arrival to the OC.

From the very beginning, a request was made to the restaurant workers to reserve a table for 20H30 until the end of the week. The request was made for a specific table given the number in the group—nine people. This group would dine daily and always arrive around 20H30. They would leave the restaurant around 00H30.

That the table they occupied is next to the Tapas bar since that table was the biggest.

This group (who would dine at the time previously mentioned) was always made up of nine adults, constituted by eight couples (I think this is an error in the document, it says ‘oito casais’ or eight couples and should probably read four couples or quarto casais) and an older woman. He believed that this older woman was the grandmother of the missing child. He never saw any children accompanying the nine people.

When the table was reserved, nothing was mentioned about checking on the children and the only concern was in accommodating the entire group.

That the table this group occupied was always reserved for 20H30, and where the family of the missing child, in regards to dinner, has their routine defined.

That effectively he did know the missing child’s family due to the circumstances previously mentioned, but had not entered their [prior] residence. He goes daily to the family’s apartment in order to bring them lunch.

That every day around 13H00, he heads to no. 4-G (where the family of the missing child is staying) and to no. 4-1 (where 10 people are lodged) to deliver lunch. He repeats this routine at 20H00 to take them dinner.

That the payment for alcohol, not included in the vacation package, was paid by (service) card. This payment was made by random members of the group of nine.

According to what he remembers, the missing child’s family frequented the Tapas pool where they would take their children. They would stay in the children’s play area in the period between 16H45 and 17H30, at the time when babysitters would take care of the children. The babysitters are employees of Mark Warner.

That he never noticed any walkie talkies or other sound devices on top of the table occupied by the group. He only noticed that occasionally one of the nine present would get up from the table and leave for a few minutes. He did not know where they went.

The nine individuals, including the family of the missing child, were included in the half pension regime. They had the right to dinner (a menu that included starter, main course, desert and drinks as listed). All aperitifs, and after dinner drinks were paid separately using the credit card.

That generally, it was always the same people that dined in the Tapas and who were registered for dinner. A list of all the people who dined at the Tapas from the arrival of the missing child’s family to 2007.05.04 has been handed over to the investigation.

That on 2007.05.03 he began work around 09H30 and finished around 17H30, when he left the resort and returned again at 22H30, as already described previously.

That on the 3rd of May, 2007, he did not notice any abnormal situation or anything out of the ordinary, nor has any comment been made to him to this effect.

That for days prior to the disappearance of the child he did not detect any suspicious situation or details that he could now offer the investigation.

And nothing more was said.




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All together at the Ocean Club

Post by justcurious on 26.03.12 16:28

Candyfloss

I ask for sensible debate but you keep muddying the waters why people can decide for themselves.

I asked you before who is Andrew Oxedale? You claim as a fact he is editor of This is Money.

Well he is not and never has been. Dont you think people can check?


I told you this more than once and still you quote it as a FACT.But it is not true

Why can't you do proper research and admit mistakes?

I have quoted many facts but because they do not suit your agenda you will not answer

The tapas was not part of the deal why are you so desperate to keep this unknown.

People can google Andrew Oxedale and see for themselves

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 26.03.12 16:39

Again no links. Research my foot where are your links.

Andrew Oxlade is the Editor of this is money. I mis-typed his name for some reason i put the letters around the wrong way, then copied for other posts, a mistake, doesn't make a difference you had the links on the article I posted, to look for yourself. You are only here to cause argument and disruption.........

http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andrewoxlade

http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2007/05/my_experience_o.html


YOU have not quoted any facts, no links, nothing, just your opinion. I don't normally ban people but

YOU ARE BANNED
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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 26.03.12 17:11

Candyfloss.

Curiousity certainly killed this particular cat.
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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 26.03.12 17:25

Jean wrote: Candyfloss.

Curiousity certainly killed this particular cat.

Well, they certainly were given numerous chances to post links to back up their posts that were supposed to be fact. An opinion is different, but saying something is fact, with not a scrap of proof is not how this forum works.
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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 26.03.12 17:52

It didn't help that he or she had obviously left charm school too early!

I wonder if they had blessed us before with their presence under another name.
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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Gillyspot on 26.03.12 18:06

From Mark Warners site dated 3.5.07

"At the Ocean Club, your half-board package includes breakfast served at the Millennium Restaurant, where you help yourself to a cooked, continental or healthier start to the day, and dinner, (carte de table or buffet selection) in one of the two family friendly village restaurants. House wine is included with dinner. There is always the option of dining elsewhere in the village, from curry to Chinese, seafood to snacks at an extra cost. There are a number of local shops and excellent supermarkets within easy walking distance should you wish to dine in your apartment."

Tapas therefore was included in the Half Board agreement.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070508114801/http://www.markwarner.co.uk/summer_holidays/portugal/ocean_club/resort_details

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Christina on 26.03.12 21:04

Hi. Thanks for copying those statements on the previous page.

So if quite a few staff, including the group, knew they'd block-booked the Tapas since their second night, how can they 'almost' have thought of going to the Millenium for dinner, I think the night of the disappearance? Kate at least had said that somewhere. Why, when they'd decided to use the Tapas because of the trek and inconvenience in using the Millenium for breakfast?

It doesn't make any sense to think it. It's this always leaving doubt or alternatives thing that they do that I find incredible. Nothing is a straightforward account of what happened, ever.

I don't think I was aware of the booking to deliver lunch at 1pm each day either. To 4a though? I need to read more, I think!

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Gillyspot on 26.03.12 21:28

@Christina wrote:Hi. Thanks for copying those statements on the previous page.

So if quite a few staff, including the group, knew they'd block-booked the Tapas since their second night, how can they 'almost' have thought of going to the Millenium for dinner, I think the night of the disappearance? Kate at least had said that somewhere. Why, when they'd decided to use the Tapas because of the trek and inconvenience in using the Millenium for breakfast?

It doesn't make any sense to think it. It's this always leaving doubt or alternatives thing that they do that I find incredible. Nothing is a straightforward account of what happened, ever.

I don't think I was aware of the booking to deliver lunch at 1pm each day either. To 4a though? I need to read more, I think!

Sadly the McCanns have these questions off to a fine art. Nothing they ever say is clear. But then Gerry McCann did say confusion is good - for them but not for the truth.

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 26.03.12 21:38

I think they were moved into 4a? that morning or early next morning. I had not realised they had lunch delivered. Obviously this was after the event, so perhaps MW were being helpful.
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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Guest on 26.03.12 21:44

[quote]

That every day around 13H00, he heads to no. 4-G (where the family of the missing child is staying) and to no. 4-1 (where 10 people are lodged) to deliver lunch. He repeats this routine at 20H00 to take them dinner.

Apartment 4G they were moved to. The statement of the witness above taken on 8th May 07 so yes they must had had lunch delivered, and also dinner.
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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Christina on 26.03.12 21:48

Thanks for the replies. Yes, Gillyspot, a weird smokescreen over even the smallest things.

Candyfloss, yes I'd forgotten they were moved nearby. And the statement was from the Tapas Supervisor in 2008 so it must have been afterwards. I think I really need to look again at the earliest statements. There's so much I've forgotten over time, and when you re-read them you wonder why anyone believes big parts of what the McCanns have said.

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Re: All together at the Ocean Club

Post by Christina on 26.03.12 21:50

Sorry Candyfloss I picked up the date wrongly, just seen your last post!

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