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PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

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For how long was the abduction hoax planned?

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by NickE on Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:03 pm

@Skingdavid wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:For those of you who believe that she died much earlier than the Thursday . how do you explain the reported rushed scribbling of timelines on Maddie's stickerbook. Surely timelines would already have been done if the death had happened four days before ?
IMO.
I believe what's happened down there was pre planned, either in the UK or some kind of plan B down in the Algarve.
The final time line preparations for the staged abduction was made in Restaurant Paraiso on Thursday afternoon.
are you suggesting that they went to Portugal with the intention of killing her and staging an abduction ???
No, I said "what happened" and I do not believe there was a 1st degree murder.
I do believe the staged abduction was pre planned to some degree, either in the UK or very early that week in pdl.

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by jazega on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:33 pm

@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:For those of you who believe that she died much earlier than the Thursday . how do you explain the reported rushed scribbling of timelines on Maddie's stickerbook. Surely timelines would already have been done if the death had happened four days before ?
IMO.
I believe what's happened down there was pre planned, either in the UK or some kind of plan B down in the Algarve.
The final time line preparations for the staged abduction was made in Restaurant Paraiso on Thursday afternoon.
are you suggesting that they went to Portugal with the intention of killing her and staging an abduction ???
No, I said "what happened" and I do not believe there was a 1st degree murder.
I do believe the staged abduction was pre planned to some degree, either in the UK or very early that week in pdl.

If there was a staged abduction,how do you explain the blood and cadaver odour present in Apmt 5A

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Yorkshirgel on Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:48 am

I believe that all of this 'abduction' was planned even before they went to Portugal.  Why else would Gerry McCann say 'F Off! I am not here to enjoy myself!' on the airport bus before they even got on the 'plane to Portugal.  So many things point to this.  Why take a video of Madeleine climbing the steps up to the 'plane for a start?  Why does Kate repeatedly make remarks such as the '5 ice-creams' if not to underline that there were 5 people on the beach that day.  Why would she say she took photographs when others claim they took them?  I believe they thought they would get away with it and then it all went wrong....they thought they had got it all wrapped up.  The rest was a cover up in a panic.  The biggest mystery apart from the disappearance was why were there so many doctors, scientists and businessmen at a 3 star holiday resort out of season, and why was our Government quick to fly out an Ambassador to what was simply a missing child case?  Definitely more to this than meets the eye.  How could a mother talk so calmly about her missing child's perfect genitals being torn apart?  This child was 3 years old and they expect us to believe that she was left 'in charge' of her two younger siblings! Also why has our Government spent £12 MILLION on this case and why haven't the police in Portugal moved any further in trying to find out what happened to this little girl?  What are they doing in Portugal?  Pull the other one.  No intruders and the only perverts were closer to home imo.

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by jazega on Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:13 am

@Yorkshirgel wrote:I believe that all of this 'abduction' was planned even before they went to Portugal.  Why else would Gerry McCann say 'F Off! I am not here to enjoy myself!' on the airport bus before they even got on the 'plane to Portugal.  So many things point to this.  Why take a video of Madeleine climbing the steps up to the 'plane for a start?  Why does Kate repeatedly make remarks such as the '5 ice-creams' if not to underline that there were 5 people on the beach that day.  Why would she say she took photographs when others claim they took them?  I believe they thought they would get away with it and then it all went wrong....they thought they had got it all wrapped up.  The rest was a cover up in a panic.  The biggest mystery apart from the disappearance was why were there so many doctors, scientists and businessmen at a 3 star holiday resort out of season, and why was our Government quick to fly out an Ambassador to what was simply a missing child case?  Definitely more to this than meets the eye.  How could a mother talk so calmly about her missing child's perfect genitals being torn apart?  This child was 3 years old and they expect us to believe that she was left 'in charge' of her two younger siblings! Also why has our Government spent £12 MILLION on this case and why haven't the police in Portugal moved any further in trying to find out what happened to this little girl?  What are they doing in Portugal?  Pull the other one.  No intruders and the only perverts were closer to home imo.
Did they plan for the detection of blood and cadaver odour in apt 5A

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by BlueBag on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:02 am

@Yorkshirgel wrote:I believe that all of this 'abduction' was planned even before they went to Portugal.  Why else would Gerry McCann say 'F Off! I am not here to enjoy myself!' on the airport bus before they even got on the 'plane to Portugal.
I can think of lots of reasons.

Him being a miserable git being top of the list.

I don't believe it was planned.
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by joyce1938 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:07 am

I don't think this was planned a last moment acciedent  I think ,cant imagine what that was,cant be sure if she was visited by the male playing tennis ,did she see too much ?joyce1938
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PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four hours or four days

Post by Verdi on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:46 am

@Yorkshirgel wrote:Why take a video of Madeleine climbing the steps up to the 'plane for a start?

More to the point - why take a video of Gerry McCann sitting on the shuttle bus .... "F*** off, I'm not here to enjoy myself" and then publish the clip for all the world to see?  If indeed that's what he did say.  If you get my drift.

It helps to check information before theorizing.

As a matter of interest, how does this latest pre-planned abduction fit in with your past musings - experimental cloning or illegal drug trial gone wrong was it?  Please bear in mind this is a serious forum that 'only considers available evidence and informed comment' before replying.

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Skingdavid on Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:00 pm

@Yorkshirgel wrote:I believe that all of this 'abduction' was planned even before they went to Portugal.  Why else would Gerry McCann say 'F Off! I am not here to enjoy myself!' on the airport bus before they even got on the 'plane to Portugal.  So many things point to this.  Why take a video of Madeleine climbing the steps up to the 'plane for a start?  Why does Kate repeatedly make remarks such as the '5 ice-creams' if not to underline that there were 5 people on the beach that day.  Why would she say she took photographs when others claim they took them?  I believe they thought they would get away with it and then it all went wrong....they thought they had got it all wrapped up.  The rest was a cover up in a panic.  The biggest mystery apart from the disappearance was why were there so many doctors, scientists and businessmen at a 3 star holiday resort out of season, and why was our Government quick to fly out an Ambassador to what was simply a missing child case?  Definitely more to this than meets the eye.  How could a mother talk so calmly about her missing child's perfect genitals being torn apart?  This child was 3 years old and they expect us to believe that she was left 'in charge' of her two younger siblings! Also why has our Government spent £12 MILLION on this case and why haven't the police in Portugal moved any further in trying to find out what happened to this little girl?  What are they doing in Portugal?  Pull the other one.  No intruders and the only perverts were closer to home imo.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Two threads running concurrently on the same subject.  

Topics merged.
I agree with most of this but I just can't understand the pre-planned before they went to Portugal theory . That's implying they wanted madeleine gone ? do you think they did ?
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by dartinghero on Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:39 pm

@BlueBag wrote:
@Yorkshirgel wrote:I believe that all of this 'abduction' was planned even before they went to Portugal.  Why else would Gerry McCann say 'F Off! I am not here to enjoy myself!' on the airport bus before they even got on the 'plane to Portugal.
I can think of lots of reasons.

Him being a miserable git being top of the list.

I don't believe it was planned.
Totally agree, Blue Bag and have said so on previous occasions. I struggle to understand folk taking it so literally.

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by worriedmum on Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:56 pm

@dartinghero wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@Yorkshirgel wrote:I believe that all of this 'abduction' was planned even before they went to Portugal.  Why else would Gerry McCann say 'F Off! I am not here to enjoy myself!' on the airport bus before they even got on the 'plane to Portugal.
I can think of lots of reasons.

Him being a miserable git being top of the list.

I don't believe it was planned.
Totally agree, Blue Bag and have said so on previous occasions. I struggle to understand folk taking it so literally.
Fancy having to have to go on holiday, not just with friends, but with your own ('longed-for') children. Never a minute for yourself except when all three children are in a creche and you are having tennis lessons and games. 


Give the poor wee man a break...
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Imari on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:41 am

I do think they would have got rid of the 'Star Chart' for MBM staying in her bed, had they planned to hand her over (possibly sell her to a loving family) or manage her departure from this life in some way on the holiday. One idea though that arises from the way these two do not seem to worry too much about her present life, while insisting that she is alive but hidden, is that she has been moved to a place known to them to re-emerge later, justify their claims of abduction and start pushing for micro-chips in all children. This would also account for gov involvement, hampering of police investigation etc. A psyop. It wouldn't account for the cadaverine though. 
The freezer theory is the only one that accounts for that cadaverine in the car.
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by NickE on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:18 am

@jazega wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:For those of you who believe that she died much earlier than the Thursday . how do you explain the reported rushed scribbling of timelines on Maddie's stickerbook. Surely timelines would already have been done if the death had happened four days before ?
IMO.
I believe what's happened down there was pre planned, either in the UK or some kind of plan B down in the Algarve.
The final time line preparations for the staged abduction was made in Restaurant Paraiso on Thursday afternoon.
are you suggesting that they went to Portugal with the intention of killing her and staging an abduction ???
No, I said "what happened" and I do not believe there was a 1st degree murder.
I do believe the staged abduction was pre planned to some degree, either in the UK or very early that week in pdl.

If there was a staged abduction,how do you explain the blood and cadaver odour present in Apmt 5A
Was the blood in 5A confirmed to have belonged to MbM?
I can't find that in the forensic report.
I believe that there's a possibility that something could have happened elsewhere and her clothes could have been placed in a bag, temporarily placed or hidden behind the sofa and removed to the wardrobe.
This would have give enough odour for a well trained cadaver dog.
I don't claim this but I believe it's a possibility and I have take into the account that there is no known photo on Madeleine inside 5A,on the balcony etc. and I find this odd because it was supposed to be a family holiday, they had two cameras but no photo's from their holiday apartment.
We can not see any toys in 5A and it's claimed she was in creche for 5 days but we have not seen a single drawing or anything else she did during these 5 days.
"Kikoratton" was one of the first to come up with the theory that something could have happened very early on that holiday and he also said that he believed she could have been transfered to an other place very early that week and I believe this scenario is a possibility.

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Ladyinred on Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:08 am

@NickE Has Kiko decided not to comment on the case any more?
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Verdi on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:19 am

@NickE wrote:Was the blood in 5A confirmed to have belonged to MbM?
No - and that's an emphatic no!

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14654p125-forensics-revisited#387608

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Planning the Abduction hoax

Post by willowthewisp on Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:06 pm

@NickE wrote:
@jazega wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:
@NickE wrote:
IMO.
I believe what's happened down there was pre planned, either in the UK or some kind of plan B down in the Algarve.
The final time line preparations for the staged abduction was made in Restaurant Paraiso on Thursday afternoon.
are you suggesting that they went to Portugal with the intention of killing her and staging an abduction ???
No, I said "what happened" and I do not believe there was a 1st degree murder.
I do believe the staged abduction was pre planned to some degree, either in the UK or very early that week in pdl.

If there was a staged abduction,how do you explain the blood and cadaver odour present in Apmt 5A
Was the blood in 5A confirmed to have belonged to MbM?
I can't find that in the forensic report.
I believe that there's a possibility that something could have happened elsewhere and her clothes could have been placed in a bag, temporarily placed or hidden behind the sofa and removed to the wardrobe.
This would have give enough odour for a well trained cadaver dog.
I don't claim this but I believe it's a possibility and I have take into the account that there is no known photo on Madeleine inside 5A,on the balcony etc. and I find this odd because it was supposed to be a family holiday, they had two cameras but no photo's from their holiday apartment.
We can not see any toys in 5A and it's claimed she was in creche for 5 days but we have not seen a single drawing or anything else she did during these 5 days.
"Kikoratton" was one of the first to come up with the theory that something could have happened very early on that holiday and he also said that he believed she could have been transfered to an other place very early that week and I believe this scenario is a possibility.
Hi NickE, I am trying to understand your "thesis" as above.
Are you subscribing that person's knew recovery dogs would be used,that cadaver odours were transfered into Apartment 5a,surely if something had happened,you wouldn't brig anything back to incriminate yourself,to your own hired apartment?
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Micro-chipping rationale

Post by Imari on Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:11 pm

I do still think this could have been staged - cadaverine could come from any human corpse and might be planted to mislead and confuse us (especially those of us who try to understand just what has happened), blood also could come from MBM without her being dead. 
If there was a scheme to 'promote' child chipping it would be in the scheme's interests to keep the story going for as long as possible, then after a couple of 'discoveries' of chipped children who might otherwise never have been found, MBM might emerge. It would mean that the Mccanns probably would have agreed to the vanishing - or they might not, but they do appear not to suffer that anguish of not knowing what a child is going through - people attribute that to their knowing that she is dead, but might it also be that they know she is safe.  Would they do that? Some people do think them capable of much deception, so possibly they might.
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Verdi on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:08 pm

Talk about buying the suit to match the tie!

Madeleine McCann the chosen one - to disappear for eleven years without trace, for the sake of a blueprint scheme to micro-chip children?  Come on be realistic!

Madeleine McCann disappeared while holidaying with her family at a low key holiday resort on the Portuguese Algarve in the spring of 2007, just an ordinary kid from an ordinary family doing what ordinary families do - then tragedy struck.  It really is that simple, no alien invasion (unlike CMoMM at times), no scientific experiment, no cult ritual, no other bizarre theory coming from an over active mind.  Just think about it rationally because I really can't be bothered to point out the most obvious flaws in this theory with the exception of a total absence of evidence.  Unless you believe your average couple pack unisex 'Eau de Cadavar' for their holiday in preference to 'his and hers Channel and/or Hugo Boss'?

Come down to earth please.

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by NickE on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:34 am

@willowthewisp wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@jazega wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:
are you suggesting that they went to Portugal with the intention of killing her and staging an abduction ???
No, I said "what happened" and I do not believe there was a 1st degree murder.
I do believe the staged abduction was pre planned to some degree, either in the UK or very early that week in pdl.

If there was a staged abduction,how do you explain the blood and cadaver odour present in Apmt 5A
Was the blood in 5A confirmed to have belonged to MbM?
I can't find that in the forensic report.
I believe that there's a possibility that something could have happened elsewhere and her clothes could have been placed in a bag, temporarily placed or hidden behind the sofa and removed to the wardrobe.
This would have give enough odour for a well trained cadaver dog.
I don't claim this but I believe it's a possibility and I have take into the account that there is no known photo on Madeleine inside 5A,on the balcony etc. and I find this odd because it was supposed to be a family holiday, they had two cameras but no photo's from their holiday apartment.
We can not see any toys in 5A and it's claimed she was in creche for 5 days but we have not seen a single drawing or anything else she did during these 5 days.
"Kikoratton" was one of the first to come up with the theory that something could have happened very early on that holiday and he also said that he believed she could have been transfered to an other place very early that week and I believe this scenario is a possibility.
Hi NickE, I am trying to understand your "thesis" as above.
Are you subscribing that person's knew recovery dogs would be used,that cadaver odours were transfered into Apartment 5a,surely if something had happened,you wouldn't brig anything back to incriminate yourself,to your own hired apartment?
The answer on that question is quite simple.
Her clothes could have been brought back in a fabric bag and temporarily placed/hidden behind the sofa and later moved to the wardrobe, that would have caused enough odour for a well trained cadaver dog.
There was a bag where the dogs alerted and we have no idea where it went later.

____________________
When asked if people will ever learn what really happened, Mr Amaral responded: “Yes, we will, when MI5 opens the case files, we will find out".
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by polyenne on Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:12 am

That is correct NickE. The source of the scent/odour could well have been Madeleine but it doesn’t mean that the source was ever in 5A.

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by NickE on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:25 am

@Ladyinred wrote:@NickE Has Kiko decided not to comment on the case any more?
He made his final report a couple years ago and handed it over to PJ.
He is not actively working on the case but he follows it.

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When asked if people will ever learn what really happened, Mr Amaral responded: “Yes, we will, when MI5 opens the case files, we will find out".
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Jill Havern on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:45 am

@NickE wrote:
@willowthewisp wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@jazega wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Skingdavid wrote:
are you suggesting that they went to Portugal with the intention of killing her and staging an abduction ???
No, I said "what happened" and I do not believe there was a 1st degree murder.
I do believe the staged abduction was pre planned to some degree, either in the UK or very early that week in pdl.

If there was a staged abduction,how do you explain the blood and cadaver odour present in Apmt 5A
Was the blood in 5A confirmed to have belonged to MbM?
I can't find that in the forensic report.
I believe that there's a possibility that something could have happened elsewhere and her clothes could have been placed in a bag, temporarily placed or hidden behind the sofa and removed to the wardrobe.
This would have give enough odour for a well trained cadaver dog.
I don't claim this but I believe it's a possibility and I have take into the account that there is no known photo on Madeleine inside 5A,on the balcony etc. and I find this odd because it was supposed to be a family holiday, they had two cameras but no photo's from their holiday apartment.
We can not see any toys in 5A and it's claimed she was in creche for 5 days but we have not seen a single drawing or anything else she did during these 5 days.
"Kikoratton" was one of the first to come up with the theory that something could have happened very early on that holiday and he also said that he believed she could have been transfered to an other place very early that week and I believe this scenario is a possibility.
Hi NickE, I am trying to understand your "thesis" as above.
Are you subscribing that person's knew recovery dogs would be used,that cadaver odours were transfered into Apartment 5a,surely if something had happened,you wouldn't brig anything back to incriminate yourself,to your own hired apartment?
The answer on that question is quite simple.
Her clothes could have been brought back in a fabric bag and temporarily placed/hidden behind the sofa and later moved to the wardrobe, that would have caused enough odour for a well trained cadaver dog.
There was a bag where the dogs alerted and we have no idea where it went later.
What about the blood behind the sofa that Keela alerted to that was in exactly the same place that Eddie alerted to?
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by polyenne on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:47 am

Fabric bag + blood = seepage

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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Ladyinred on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:54 am

@NickE wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:@NickE Has Kiko decided not to comment on the case any more?
He made his final report a couple years ago and handed it over to PJ.
He is not actively working on the case but he follows it.
Thank you.
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Jill Havern on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:56 am

@NickE wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:@NickE Has Kiko decided not to comment on the case any more?
He made his final report a couple years ago and handed it over to PJ.
He is not actively working on the case but he follows it.
So it would seem nothing came of it then?

Ben Salmon also handed over his research to the PJ last year.

Nothing came of that either?

And the MMRG handed over their research early this year...

Justice works in silence while the Portuguese justice system grinds slowly on.  

I'm sure Madeleine can wait a bit longer in her "hellish lair in the lawless hills"...

waiting
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Re: PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Post by Jill Havern on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:04 am

@polyenne wrote:Fabric bag + blood = seepage
Wasn't there some markers on the back of the sofa, on the wall, the hem of the curtain and under the floor tile? That's a lot of seepage if you don't mind my saying so. The bag would have dripping with blood as it was brought into the apartment and for it to seep up the walls the bag would have been placed on the floor with some force.

Wouldn't there have been some seepage in the wardrobe? I'm not aware that Keela alerted to the wardrobe.
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Jill Havern


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