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Forensics Revisited

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 16.11.17 10:16

MayMuse hasn't been banned.
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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by BlueBag on 16.11.17 10:23

@skyrocket wrote:@TB - thank you for your input.

@MayMuse - very glad to hear from @GeG that you're still here! thumbup
Me too.
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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by nglfi on 16.11.17 10:28

Perhaps the whole problem of the dogs begins right back with the McCanns arrogance. They did whatever they did with Madeleine, and they couldn't possibly conceive that their clean up operation wouldn't be 100% successful. By sheer arrogance they probably assumed that no cadaver or blood scent would be detected. Whilst they are doctors they are by no means what I would call intelligent or forward thinking. Don't forget the internet wasn't so freely available as it is now, so information about how long cadaver scent takes to dissipate could have been misunderstood or not been available.

They then managed to convince whoever is protecting them in the UK that there wouldn't be anything to find, so they were happy to send Grimes over, perhaps even anticipating it would fully clear them, or at least cast a huge shadow of doubt over their culpability when no alerts were forthcoming.

Or perhaps it simply didn't matter because the McCanns et al knew that just because a cadaver was present in 5A/the hire car, there's nothing to prove *which* cadaver.

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by polyenne on 16.11.17 10:32

Or perhaps it simply didn't matter because the McCanns et al knew that just because a cadaver was present in 5A/the hire car, there's nothing to prove *which* cadaver.

And with no body, it is extremely difficult, but possible, to prove culpability.
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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by nglfi on 16.11.17 10:34

Or a further possibility, Grimes was indeed sent over as part of the cover up, instructed to NOT let his dogs find anything (although I'm not sure how he would do that), and he played along, but then let the dogs do their job once he got there. He was forward thinking enough to have a job lined up in America to go to afterward. This is purely guesswork though, I have no evidence for this.

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by JRP on 16.11.17 10:50

@BlueBag wrote:
@skyrocket wrote:@TB - thank you for your input.

@MayMuse - very glad to hear from @GeG that you're still here! thumbup
Me too.

And me  thumbsup

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by JRP on 16.11.17 11:01

Martin Grimes and his EDVR Eddie also did an amazing job in Jersey too, only to face ridicule because Eddie was far better at sniffing out corpses than anyone anticipated.

They tested Eddie on a beach in Jersey by burying swabs in the sand with minute particles of blood, he found them no matter the size of the area. They also buried a vial of sand taken from an Egyptian tomb and buried that in the sand, and Eddie found that too.

This was witnessed by politicians and TV, politicians who would later help to discredit him and Grimes... Go figure that one!
...........

What happened to the evidence found in the apartments and the car and the clothes and cuddlecat to back the dogs up? 
I think they rather than Grimes, Eddie and Keela are worth scrutiny.

http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/exclusive-footage-of-eddie-cadaver-dog.html

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Phoebe on 16.11.17 11:17

If Martin Grime had, indeed, been working on behalf of those wishing to exonerate the McCanns, he could have seen to it very easily that the dogs found zilch and given the McCanns a clean bill of suspect-health. Rather than encourage a thorough search of areas/items with repeated examination he could have said "Showing no interest here move on". Only persistence found the blood traces behind the sofa and in the hire-car. Remember too, Keela is ONLY called into play if Eddie alerts.
Two points re. some comments upthread. As I understand it the McCanns were in the pool at the villa with the twins when the P.J. and Grime arrived to carry out the search. They could hardly insist on racing back in to retrieve cuddlecat without drawing attention so I don't read anything into to it being in the bag in the villa.
I have always understood that it was elements of the P.J. who filmed the searches and this would be normal evidential practice as part of an investigation.
The following comment upthread has horrified me - 

   @Kaz  "Had Amaral ( in all good faith )  already set the scene of the child's death before Eddie usefully confirmed it?" 


Good grief!!  Are we now suggesting Dr. Amaral had the evidence planted?  The dissing of the dogs and Martin Grime and now the questioning of Goncalo Amaral's role is more akin to something I would expect to read on a rabidly pro-McCann website. I hope I have misinterpreted !!
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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by polyenne on 16.11.17 11:23

@Phoebe, I read the Amaral setting the scene comment as being that Amaral had already strongly surmised that Madeleine had been killed in the apartment (for him, on 3 May)
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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Verdi on 16.11.17 12:32

Comments noted for future reference. 

Thank you all for your input 2thumbs .

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by BlueBag on 16.11.17 12:37

Didn't Eddie show interest as soon as he entered the apartment?


Ok what was done was we deployed the victim recovery dog into the apartment and by experience and the training of the dog what I first noticed is that as soon as I came in that the dog was very excited and as a handler I can pick up his body language etc and it would appear to me that as soon as he has come into the house he's picked up a scent that he recognises ...


I think Martin Grime said he could tell from Eddie's first reaction on entering. 

It seems Eddie has a threshold that goes from "interesting" to "alert".
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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by kaz on 16.11.17 13:15

@Phoebe wrote:

   @Kaz  "Had Amaral ( in all good faith )  already set the scene of the child's death before Eddie usefully confirmed it?" 


Good grief!!  Are we now suggesting Dr. Amaral had the evidence planted?  The dissing of the dogs and Martin Grime and now the questioning of Goncalo Amaral's role is more akin to something I would expect to read on a rabidly pro-McCann website. I hope I have misinterpreted !!
What do you think, '' in good faith '' means?
You have indeed misinterpreted and I certainly have not 'dissed' Martin Grimes or Eddie. You need to read the my post properly before rushing to comment.

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by kaz on 16.11.17 13:23

@Tony Bennett wrote:










Finally, and on a lighter note, I hope this post might end Ben Thompson's claims that you and I are one and the same individuals.

Perish the thought
I think he would need more 'evidence' than this Tony! Whilst I don't for one minute think Verdi is your 'alter ego',  a posting in your own name giving advice and gentle remonstration to a poster in another name does NOT absolve you of suspicion. This IS  CoMMM after all  where  we require REAL evidence.

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by kinell on 16.11.17 14:14








From this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4NMYPsFKb8 you can see Eddie sniffing the top of the cupboard at 4.05 mins. He alerts at 4.07

At 4.25 he goes around the back of the dining table and alerts at 4.26 then repositions himself to alert again at 4.27 for 10 seconds

Then Martin and Eddie leave the room and then they come back again and at 5.49 Martin takes cuddlecat out of the cupboard.

I assume Eddie could smell what he was looking for when he sniffed the top of the cupboard because he couldn't actually access the inside of the cupboard at the time.

Eddie had previously been in the empty cupboard and didn't detect anything, but when he came back once cuddlecat had been placed in there then he did bark after sniffing the top of the cupboard.


From the video that JRP posted upthread I noticed that Eddie was freely allowed to do what he needed to do and was barking frantically (RIP little children) but in this video of the McCann's villa Martin had to tell him to keep coming back.

For me, there was a difference in how Eddie was 'utilised' in both examinations, although the result was the same: barking

I understand there would have been more cadavers at Haute de la Garenne so there would have been more scents for him to pick up on, but they were 'historically very old' compared to Madeleine's cadaver.

I do not for one minute believe Eddie would bark without detecting what he was trained to detect.

He barked at something. Eddie alerted in the vicinity of cuddlecat in the cupboard. Martin took cuddlecat out of the cupboard.

And, at the end of the day, there were plenty of other alerts on other items anyway.

At around 57 mins in the video Martin then goes to the gym where all the clothes were laid out and Eddie goes immediately to the red shirt, Kate's trousers and blouse, and barks a lot of times. He was then taken away and then told to go back and he barks again.

Keela was sent in and didn't alert, which means Eddie detected cavader on the clothes.

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Phoebe on 16.11.17 18:38

@kaz wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:

   @Kaz  "Had Amaral ( in all good faith )  already set the scene of the child's death before Eddie usefully confirmed it?" 


Good grief!!  Are we now suggesting Dr. Amaral had the evidence planted?  The dissing of the dogs and Martin Grime and now the questioning of Goncalo Amaral's role is more akin to something I would expect to read on a rabidly pro-McCann website. I hope I have misinterpreted !!
What do you think, '' in good faith '' means?
You have indeed misinterpreted and I certainly have not 'dissed' Martin Grimes or Eddie. You need to read the my post properly before rushing to comment.
Apologies for misinterpreting you  roses .
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Forensics Revisited - 2

Post by Tony Bennett on 19.11.17 21:45

STATEMENT:


In relation to comments I made a few days ago on the 'Forensics Revisited' thread on certain matters relating to Verdi, I now formally withdraw my post and will edit it to remove it altogether. I apologise to Verdi for having raised on the open forum issues which should have been brought to Admin. I further accept that I had misunderstood certain things that Verdi had written and apologise for that misunderstanding.  

ETA:  As the other Forensics Revisited thread is now locked, I cannot personally delete my earlier post, so would one of the Admin Team kindly please remove it for me, thanks


Tony Bennett  


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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 19.11.17 22:17

Sorry about that, Tony - I locked it the other night then forgot to reopen it. rolleyes

All sorted now.
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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Verdi on 19.11.17 23:41

@Tony Bennett wrote:STATEMENT:


In relation to comments I made a few days ago on the 'Forensics Revisited' thread on certain matters relating to Verdi, I now formally withdraw my post and will edit it to remove it altogether. I apologise to Verdi for having raised on the open forum issues which should have been brought to Admin. I further accept that I had misunderstood certain things that Verdi had written and apologise for that misunderstanding.  

Tony Bennett 

Apology accepted with thanks.  Always the honourable gentleman Mr Bennett.

In the spirit of good fellowship, I take this opportunity to clarify that I do not in any way doubt the integrity of Martin Grime and his dogs.  Apologies to readers if I gave that impression.

Hopefully we can now move on with the true purpose of CMoMM without further disaccord .

grouphug

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Verdi on 27.11.17 0:37

08-Processos Vol VIII Page 2132 - 2133
08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2132
08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2133
4th Brigade
Inspector Joao Carlos

To the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

During inquiries carried out by this police force it was possible to gather information relating to a car used by a friend of Russel O'Brien, one of the elements of the group who travelled with the McCann family on holiday in the Algarve.

As regards the requests for searches of all the vehicles relevant to the process, pages 2002 to 2005, we do not know the identifying elements of this vehicle, however with the aim of continuing with this inquiry we can say that it is a vehicle of the make Opel, model Corsa, number plate 75-AG-62.

We do not have a search warrant for this vehicle and request the emission of this legal instrument in order to be able to complete this inquiry.

6th August 2007
Inspector
Joao Carlos

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by Verdi on 27.11.17 0:40

08-Processos Vol VIII Page 2134
08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2133
Search and Apprehension Report

Date: 2007/08/06

Presiding Officer: Tavares de Almeida

Executing Officer: Joao Carlos and Ricardo Paiva, Inspectors

Search Identity: vehicle belonging to SIXT rent a car.

Time: 14.00

The following result was obtained (detailed description of the number and quantity papers and objects detected and their exact location, search warrant and indication of examinations made).

Search carried out on Opel Corsa vehicle, number plate 75-AG-62, with forensic support, nothing having been found or indicated.

Signed

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Re: Forensics Revisited

Post by NickE on 27.11.17 6:50

Did RoB/JT? had access to this car for the whole week?

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