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NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

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NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by HiDeHo on 14.07.17 17:34

A topic that has been discussed for a long time but so many issues still surround the suggestion.

We often hear that if the parents looked after their children instead of neglecting them then Maddie would still be with us...

One would think that only supporters of the abduction would say that, but it is often said by those that believe the parents are complicit...

It tends to suggest that Maddie disappeared because she was left alone (ie abducted)

Maddie disappeared because her parents hid her body, and simulated an abduction, NOT because she was neglected!






We don't know if Maddie died earlier because she was left alone but we DO know she didn't disappear on Thursday night because she was neglected...

If she was dead before they left the apartment to go to the tapas on Thursday then the disappearance was not because she WAS neglected. A child that is dead cannot be 'neglected'

This is what the files 'tell' us

C)' In order to avoid the death [alarm] of the minor before 22H00, it was created a situation of the children's surveillance by the McCann while the children slept;'

'CREATED A SITUATION OF THE CHILDREN'S SURVEILLANCE' ???

Is this what (C) is telling us?
So no-one would know she had died before 10pm they PRETENDED the children were left in the apartment and they were checking every half hour. (ie simulating neglect)

How could they have claimed an abduction if the children were being watched? It was NECESSARY to claim they were left alone... ie neglected



 FROM HDH WORDPRESS BLOG

https://hidehocontroversyofmadeleinemccann.wordpress.com/2015/07/14/9-neglect-are-you-sure-the-mccanns-neglected-their-children/



JULY 14, 2015 

9 – NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?


Enlarge this image Click to see fullsize



[size=30]From the OFFICIAL FInd Madeleine Facebook Group ‘Rules of the Road’.[/size]






Is such rudeness necessary?

Enlarge this image


Claiming ‘neglect’ suggests that it was the reason that Madeleine disappeared! Unless one believes there was an abduction, there were far more serious things happening that night than leaving the children alone…
According to the police investigation, Madeleine had died, they hid her body and simulated an abduction… Neglect is a welcome smokescreen to that accusation!



Claiming ‘neglect’ suggests that it was the reason that Madeleine disappeared! Unless one believes there was an abduction, there were far more serious things happening that night than leaving the children alone…
According to the police investigation, Madeleine had died, they hid her body and simulated an abduction… Neglect is a welcome smokescreen to that accusation!



No Neglect = No Abduction – Gerry INSISTS they didn’t check the children every 15 mins!






[

Isn’t it odd that EVERY negative comment about the McCanns has been stopped (See McCanns  Manipulated Media’ post) and yet the ONE mantra that is a constant is about leaving the children alone in the apartment while they went to dinner at the tapas?

From the start I wondered why they didn’t claim that the children were being watched by one of the group.  After all, there was one of them not present at the tapas each night (Monday we dont know) and would have been very easy to claim the children were being watched to avoid ANY suggestions they were being neglected, which seemed to be an important issue.


Is it possible that the chidren WERE being watched by one of the Tapas 9?


However, if that was the case, then WHO would have been responsible.at the moment that Madeleine was ‘abducted’? More to the point, HOW would the ‘abductor’ have been able to access the apartment and ‘take’ Madeleine? IMPOSSIBLE!


So, it seems that even if they HAD been watching the children they HAD to say they were leaving the children alone to facilitate the opportunity for an ‘abductor’!


Gerry does it very well in this video where he INSISTS they weren’t watching the children every 15 minutes as Sandra Felgueiras suggested… He made sure that everyone was aware there was a suitable amount of time for the ‘abductor’ to accomplish the task by saying it was every 30 MINS!!


Now, why would he DENY they were watching the children every 15 mins?  Was it because he NEEDED everyone to know the ‘abductor’ had time to enter the apartment?



Did NEGLECT or something SINISTER cause Madeleine’s Disappearance?










Title: It HELPS the McCanns to claim they were NEGLECTFUL!







http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/HiDeHo-Posts/It-HELPS-the-McCanns-to-claim-they-were-NEGLECTFUL-1-1060810.html

I have to say that i am pleased to see so many considering the ‘Neglect’ issue as being a smokescreen for the truth. The trade off for what they SHOULD be accountable for.

I have archived many of my posts on this subject as I tend to ramble on about it so often as I have always believed it to be the case, and often I see my old posts asking if I am the only one to think this way?


Every time the neglect issue is raised and the McCann’s blamed for it I almost hear a cheer from TM.


Without realising it, a post that blames the McCanns for neglect, leaving their little ones alone while they go dining at the tapas, leaves the reader subconsciously thinking that the neglect is why Madeleine disappeared and inadvertently suggesting the abduction was the reason she disappeared.


They NEEDED to suggest neglect or the abduction wouldn’t have been possible. Kate refers to Wednesday night (in her book) as ‘Rachaels turn to be sick’….My opinion is that it is very possible they were watching the children relatively responsibly…each taking turns to stay near all the apartments (or in one or two) and something may have happened to Madeleine.


Rather than one person being responsible (which they would also have been singled out as a target had the ‘abductor’ taken Madeleine on their ‘turn’) it was agreed to incorporate the checking to eliminate one person being responsible.


There was a MAJOR reason for not reporting her death…that is another discussion…..but they ENCOURAGED the neglect issue. The mantra in every storylne about them dining in the tapas….Gerry telling Jez more than once about leaving the children…the first time TUESDAY lunchtime! Contrived even at that point (one reason that supports something happening to Madeleine earlier in the week imo


There was no reason that they could not have said from the start that there was always someone back at the apartments looking after the children..(which according to their statements there was…MO on Sunday, ROB on Tuesday, Rachael on Wednesday) so why didnt they protect themselves against neglect by stating that?


They NEEDED neglect to give the abductor the ‘window’ of opportunity..(all of THREE MINUTES which I believe was one of their major errors). An abductor could not have taken a child that was being watched.
I could go on forever, as I have posted on this issue more times than anything else and i feel like a broken record, but for those that would like to see some of the reasons that have supported my belief there are lots of examples here.



HiDeHo Posts
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/HiDeHo-Posts-1-68493



May 3rd Simulated Abduction or Neglect
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Thursday-May-3rd/May-3rd-Simulated-Abduction-OR-Neglect-1-796646.html



Neglect (Statements that show they cared about childcare)http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Individual-Topics/Neglect-1-796651.htm

l
I ABSOLUTELY believe there was no neglect for NUMEROUS reasons.


1) The McCanns claim it to be true. I believe nothing else, why should I believe that?


2) Rachael claims to have had Ella in her apartment for a bath.


3) Gerry told everyone he could about leaving the children alone (so everyone would believe the abduction when they heard it

.
4) On video the waiter claims they did not leave the table within short periods of time and he is sure they didn’t leave for more than 45 mins.


5) There are many statements that show they really cared about the childcare arrangements prior to arriving (particularly MO) and JT I think.


6) For those of us that believe something happened to Madeleine earlier in the week then every night was ‘faked’ as being normal…hence the contrived ‘checking.


7) The waiter claims that a few times the meal had to be reheated…could that have been because the person that was watching the children was relieved and able to get to the table for the meal?

8) On a video there is undercover filming of Mrs Fenns hairdressers where they claim that the McCanns were at Chaplins…It doesnt make it true, but if they did go there after the tapas they would need someone watching the children. Whether we like them or not, I do believe they all loved their children and would not neglect them in any way.


9) When I write these neglect threads, I always get the feeling that if the McCanns see it they would ‘hate’ me…because once you take away neglect you are left with them being accountable for what REALLY happened to Madeleine, because she couldnt have been abducted while being watched so how would they explain her disappearance?


Even better…..How could they explain the truth about what happened to little Madeleine?



Was there really neglect?









According to statements, Matthew Oldfield was in 5B on Sunday night and Rachael was there on Wednesday…

This apartment was so close to Apartment 5A that they could hear through the walls….


Tuesday, Russell O’Brien was in apartment 5D with only one apartment separating his apartment from the Oldfields and then the McCanns. (a few steps away if checked from the entrance to the apartments.)


The Paynes had a monitor but were only one floor above.


Quick and easy enough for someone, to keep an eye out for children rather than have everyone keep returning back from the tapas.


Tuesday night, Najoya the quiz mistress did not see Kate or David Payne between approx nine and ten pm so they may have been in the apartments.


Thursday there was only a few minutes during the evening when everyone was (supposedly) at the table.


An adult was very near to the children Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday and probably Thursday…


Only Monday is unknown…it is not known if everyone was at the table on Monday, there may have been someone watching the children.


What are the chances that 9 adults would choose to leave their children alone and not ask the person that was close by to keep an eye on them?


Why would they claim they were ‘neglecting’ their children when, for the most part, there was someone close?


How could an abduction have happened if the children were being watched?


Who would have been targeted as irresponsible if they claimed the children were being watched and the ‘abduction’ happened during their time?



They HAD to claim the children were ‘neglected’ or the ‘plan’ wouldn’t have worked.


How could they have said they were watching the children (as I believe they were) and used an ‘abduction’ to explain why Madeleine was missing?


They have GAINED from the neglect issue also….


Each time that someone claims they were irresponsible and neglectful to their children, leaving them alone….it infers that Madeleine disappeared because she was left alone, and only supports the abduction theory IMO.


According to the files and the dogs, Madeleine died in the apartment and they had no alternative but to ‘suggest’ it happened while she was left alone, when it was very probable that she died for another reason and ‘abduction’ and ‘neglect’ was the ONLY way they could explain her disappearance, rather than the truth…which could have been that the children were being ‘relatively’ cared for by someone close by, she died (because of an unknown reason) and they had to hide the truth the only way they knew how….


Madeleine may not have died because she wasn’t being looked after…..


To suggest neglect, suggests she was vulnerable to an intruder…which is what they want everyone to believe.
I don’t believe it for one minute.




‘I could shake my daughter and the Tapas 7 for leaving Madeleine alone,’ says Kate McCann’s mother







Last updated at 15:48 29 April 2008

Madeleine disappeared from a holiday apartment in the Algarve on May 3 last year
Madeleine McCann’s grandmother has attacked her own daughters’ decision to leave her three children alone in their holiday apartment on the night the three-year-old vanished.


Kate McCann’s mother, Susan Healy, admits she is totally astonished 

SEE MORE:
https://hidehocontroversyofmadeleinemccann.wordpress.com/2015/07/14/9-neglect-are-you-sure-the-mccanns-neglected-their-children/
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by polyenne on 14.07.17 20:46

And that is why I'm glad the recent petition for them to be held accountable for child neglect failed.

The McCanns would have loved that - the lesser of two
(or more) evils.
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by Verdi on 14.07.17 21:07

Neglect = Abduction

No Neglect = No abduction

It really is that simple. 

The neglect issue could never be proven in a million years and they know it.  No danger there so keep plugging the neglect issue to bolster the abduction theory.

Cunning!

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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by Nina on 14.07.17 21:10

Verdi wrote:Neglect = Abduction

No Neglect = No abduction

It really is that simple. 

The neglect issue could never be proven in a million years and they know it.  No danger there so keep plugging the neglect issue to bolster the abduction theory.

Cunning!
There are more types of neglect though Verdi than leaving a child on it's own.

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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by BlueBag on 14.07.17 21:12

I think by Kate's own words she admitted to neglect.

She said that one night they went into the covered tapas bar area where they couldn't see their flat - she said they didn't check for 45 mins whilst in there.

Parents have had their children taken into care for less than that in the UK.

Not a peep from social services.

All within the bizarroworld bounds of responsible parenting.
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by sandancer on 14.07.17 21:59

" I know what happened wasn't because we left them sleeping , I know it happened under other circumstances " 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong , but to me this is Kate telling us there was no neglect 

Along with " I know more than you do " 

Of course she knows more than we do , but she Cannot tell us .

They started the " neglect " story and have to run with it , they can Never go back 

Gerry told Jez , Kate tells us it was written in the book for booking meals then left there for anyone to see 

I don't believe the children were left alone , but they Need us to believe it otherwise there can be no abduction !

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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by Nina on 14.07.17 22:17

sandancer wrote:" I know what happened wasn't because we left them sleeping , I know it happened under other circumstances " 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong , but to me this is Kate telling us there was no neglect 

Along with " I know more than you do " 

Of course she knows more than we do , but she Cannot tell us .

They started the " neglect " story and have to run with it , they can Never go back 

Gerry told Jez , Kate tells us it was written in the book for booking meals then left there for anyone to see 

I don't believe the children were left alone , but they Need us to believe it otherwise there can be no abduction !
We are fixated with neglect meaning leaving children alone. It doesn't it can mean many more things..... https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/neglect/

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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by Phoebe on 14.07.17 22:31

If they had days to plan Madeleine's "abduction" (and help) surely they would have done so in another way which left them blameless, rather than admitting to neglect? Gerry could have hired a car, come back to the apartment and taken his family on a sight-seeing day out to a beach. If willing witnesses were needed some of the other T7 could have gone too to corroborate the story. Six year old Rene Hasee had already set a precedent. Voila! Madeleine becomes another child who vanishes inexplicably. The lurking paedophile story would have been much more credible in this instance, no blame attached to the distraught parents, still an excuse for the "Find Madeleine" fund to be needed. Why expose them ALL to censure for neglect?
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by sandancer on 14.07.17 22:38

Nina wrote:
sandancer wrote:" I know what happened wasn't because we left them sleeping , I know it happened under other circumstances " 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong , but to me this is Kate telling us there was no neglect 

Along with " I know more than you do " 

Of course she knows more than we do , but she Cannot tell us .

They started the " neglect " story and have to run with it , they can Never go back 

Gerry told Jez , Kate tells us it was written in the book for booking meals then left there for anyone to see 

I don't believe the children were left alone , but they Need us to believe it otherwise there can be no abduction !
We are fixated with neglect meaning leaving children alone. It doesn't it can mean many more things..... https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/neglect/


I do understand that Nina , I have friends who grew up with abuse one of them thought it was normal to be thrown against walls on a regular basis she presumed it happened to everyone .
In this instance though we are are questioning were the children left alone or not , ie was there a form of neglect .

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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by Verdi on 14.07.17 23:45

Phoebe wrote: Why expose them ALL to censure for neglect?
Neglect = Abduction

No neglect = No abduction.

It really is that simple.

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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by Phoebe on 15.07.17 0:13

Verdi wrote:
Phoebe wrote: Why expose them ALL to censure for neglect?
Neglect = Abduction

No neglect = No abduction.

It really is that simple.
That equation holds true for a plan to claim Madeleine was abducted from the apartment. My query is why did it have to be from the apartment? Even the McCanns admit the "window of opportunity" was incredibly narrow. The abduction story was made even more incredible by the fact that an abductor ignored the two younger children and took the risk of being spotted by the checkers, neighbours or a random passerby. There could have been a claim of abduction without neglect had she been "abducted" elsewhere. This would have avoided the need for any of the group to appear negligent. If the story had been that Madeleine had vanished on a day out I think few would have suspected their involvement. The "taken from her bed" claim was always flimsy and smacks of panicked necessity rather than a few days planning/help to come up with a solution.
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by BlueBag on 15.07.17 7:37

There could have been a claim of abduction without neglect had she been "abducted" elsewhere. 

A much tougher story to try and keep straight in my opinion.

Danger of unexpected witnesses to the thing... details of who did what when... 

"We tucked them up in bed and went to dinner and she was gone" is simpler.

No one at the scene of the crime.
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by Phoebe on 15.07.17 12:06

@ Blue Bag The "Snatched from her bed" proved very complicated and incredible. First they claim the doors were locked and they accessed through the locked front door - obviously to AVOID accusations of carelessness/ negligence. The apartment had been broken into, the shutters jemmied. Only when this failed did Gerry change his tune and say the patio door was open. Then came the daft "checking routine" which fell apart and raised suspicions at once. The window of opportunity was so small that Gerry even had to claim the abductor was hiding in the apartment during his visit! Then came the complicated stories of the angle the bedroom door was opened to. Next was the whooshing curtains, easily disproved. The abductor had to manage to leave behind no trace. Finally Jane had to invent a man carrying a child away, something which immediately raised police suspicions when a) Jez and Gerry failed to see him b) she described what she couldn't possibly have seen- pyjama colour and pattern details c) the child never awoke while being carried off by a stranger through the cold night air. Then imagine a disappearance from a lonely beach - "She ran up ahead of us to the dunes just out of sight, impatient to explore. We followed along but she had vanished, just like Rene did here a few years ago". No suspicions re neglect, sedation, no need to invent jemmied windows, unlocked patio doors, strange door angles or Tannerman. If Nuno Lourenco's story was part of a plan (as some think) his fingering of W. K. as a pervy man on a BEACH covertly photographing children would have fitted perfectly. No need for Tannerman or Smithman at all.
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by JRP on 15.07.17 13:13

They obviously overestimated the credibility of their story, or underestimated the Portuguese police, or more likely both.

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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by BlueBag on 15.07.17 13:27

Phoebe wrote:@ Blue Bag The "Snatched from her bed" proved very complicated and incredible. 
Yes I know.

Still simpler than faking a snatch story on a day out.

Like I said, no one at the scene of the crime.
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Re: NEGLECT? Are you SURE the McCanns neglected their children?

Post by HiDeHo on 15.07.17 13:51

JRP wrote:They obviously overestimated the credibility of their story, or underestimated the Portuguese police, or more likely both.

They also had no idea, back then, of how social media would impact and the scrutiny they would be under.

This was unique at the time.  As far as I know it was the first case of its kind that exploded onto the social media scene, where forums created a new way for people to scrutinise every detail.

Blogs related to the case popped up everywhere and the forums provided links and detailed discussions not heard of in the Jon Benet case.

Videos to record every interview, every comment.

Once the facebook groups came into the picture six years later, in 2013, and started to gain strength with the ability to share the details with each post reaching an unbelievable amount of people, I believe this case became not only the major abduction story that it is but also unique in giving the general public the ability to have input into the investigation.

They could never have had any idea of that.  They likely felt they were dealing with 'Local 'plod' and a media that could be manipulated into publishing the 'abduction'. Once the public believed in the 'abduction' they likely thought they could walk away from this after a few weeks.

Little did they know.....


Exposing the BIG LIE to the UK Public  - Supreme Court - McCanns ARE NOT CLEARED! - 

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