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SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

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I've viewed Rich Hall's 4-minute clip about Maddie's pyjamas. After doing so....

1 I think the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine
 
2 I think the Smiths saw someone else carrying another child
 
3 I think the Smiths fabricated their sighting
 
4 I think something else
 
5 Still unsure
 
 
 
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Nina on 17.04.17 18:03

@Phoebe wrote:Does anyone else find the McCann's tale of how they used to collect the children from high tea, take them home and bathe or shower them, dress them in their pyjamas and then take them back out to the playground to play (in their night attire!) odd? I cannot conceive of taking a just-washed child, in clean pyjamas, out to a play-ground to climb on slides and wendy houses and generally race about, then bring them back indoors sweaty, possibly dirty and then put them to bed in that state.
I could imagine collecting from the creche and taking them to high tea. Then taking them back to the apartment and bathing and changing them into night clothes and then taking them out with us in a buggy whilst we ate at a nearby restaurant as hundreds of tourist families have done before me.
Certainly not take a bathed and pj'd child out to the playground to play monsters and be twizzled around though. No way.

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by sharonl on 17.04.17 19:11

@Phoebe wrote:Does anyone else find the McCann's tale of how they used to collect the children from high tea, take them home and bathe or shower them, dress them in their pyjamas and then take them back out to the playground to play (in their night attire!) odd? I cannot conceive of taking a just-washed child, in clean pyjamas, out to a play-ground to climb on slides and wendy houses and generally race about, then bring them back indoors sweaty, possibly dirty and then put them to bed in that state.


Yeah, but these are people who carry fresh sea bass, rotting meat and dirty nappies from 2 year olds in their car boot.  However, they do wash the curtains in the holiday apartment that they rented for a week and allegedly dispose of fridges by taking them to the tip.  And of course, Kate is so particular that she washed a small tea stain out of Madeleines pyjamas whilst on holiday.  This pair are a bit odd where hygiene is concerned

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Phoebe on 17.04.17 20:43

@sharonl wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:Does anyone else find the McCann's tale of how they used to collect the children from high tea, take them home and bathe or shower them, dress them in their pyjamas and then take them back out to the playground to play (in their night attire!) odd? I cannot conceive of taking a just-washed child, in clean pyjamas, out to a play-ground to climb on slides and wendy houses and generally race about, then bring them back indoors sweaty, possibly dirty and then put them to bed in that state.


Yeah, but these are people who carry fresh sea bass, rotting meat and dirty nappies from 2 year olds in their car boot.  However, they do wash the curtains in the holiday apartment that they rented for a week and allegedly dispose of fridges by taking them to the tip.  And of course, Kate is so particular that she washed a small tea stain out of Madeleines pyjamas whilst on holiday.  This pair are a bit odd where hygiene is concerned
Brilliant!  sarcastic I don't know why Kate was so puzzled about where the stain on the pyjamas could possibly have come from or why she made such a point of it. Her kids were careering around the playground in them, well, according to her and Gerry.

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by JohnyT on 17.04.17 21:14

@sharonl wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:Does anyone else find the McCann's tale of how they used to collect the children from high tea, take them home and bathe or shower them, dress them in their pyjamas and then take them back out to the playground to play (in their night attire!) odd? I cannot conceive of taking a just-washed child, in clean pyjamas, out to a play-ground to climb on slides and wendy houses and generally race about, then bring them back indoors sweaty, possibly dirty and then put them to bed in that state.


Yeah, but these are people who carry fresh sea bass, rotting meat and dirty nappies from 2 year olds in their car boot.  However, they do wash the curtains in the holiday apartment that they rented for a week and allegedly dispose of fridges by taking them to the tip.  And of course, Kate is so particular that she washed a small tea stain out of Madeleines pyjamas whilst on holiday.  This pair are a bit odd where hygiene is concerned
....and don't forget the lack of a toothbrush. Very strange behaviour for doctors IMHO
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Verdi on 17.04.17 21:53

@JohnyT wrote:
....and don't forget the lack of a toothbrush. Very strange behaviour for doctors IMHO
JohnyT
Would you be so kind as to provide the source of that information please?   howdy

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by JohnyT on 17.04.17 22:03

Not at this present time no but when I have time I will have a look.
Thanks
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by sharonl on 17.04.17 22:15

@Verdi wrote:
@JohnyT wrote:
....and don't forget the lack of a toothbrush. Very strange behaviour for doctors IMHO
JohnyT
Would you be so kind as to provide the source of that information please?   howdy


This appears in a number of news reports and blogs.  The source of this information is the McCanns themselves when the PJ were looking for Madeleine DNA and they claimed that the children shared a hair brush and toothbrush.

Going back to the PJs, if DNA in the hire car was from Madeleines unwashed pyjamas (why didn't Kate wash them at the same time that the washed a tea stain out the Eyeore ones?), how come there was no DNA to give to the police when they requested it?

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by plebgate on 17.04.17 23:09


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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Verdi on 17.04.17 23:57

@sharonl wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@JohnyT wrote:
....and don't forget the lack of a toothbrush. Very strange behaviour for doctors IMHO
JohnyT
Would you be so kind as to provide the source of that information please?   howdy


This appears in a number of news reports and blogs.  The source of this information is the McCanns themselves when the PJ were looking for Madeleine DNA and they claimed that the children shared a hair brush and toothbrush.
I know it's been the subject of talk over the years on fora and blogs but I've yet to see an official source that confirms the claim;  I'm quite sure it's not mentioned anywhere in the PJ files.  In my opinion it is and always has been an urban myth..

As regards a uncontaminated source of Madeleine's DNA, a stand alone toothbrush doesn't signify any more than a hairbrush.  There would be any number of personal items belonging to Madeleine in apartment 5a that could be a source of Madeleine's DNA - socks, sandals, trainers, undergarments, nightwear, shorts, t-shirt, sunhat, Gap broderie anglais frock, hair adornment etc etc.

The initial forensic examination carried out by the PJ forensic team was standard policing, looking for evidence of a crime -they were not looking for Madeleine's DNA.  They knew Madeleine had been in apartment 5a, there was no requirement to confirm that fact by way of DNA evidence.

I remain unconvinced until such times as compelling evidence is forthcoming.

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by ChippyM on 18.04.17 12:05

Amelie apparently recognised 'Maddies Jammies'....

is it not possible Madeleine had more than 1 pair, an old pair that no longer fit her were taken with them as hand me downs for Amelie? Of course it is possible.

  I don't see how it can be said with certainty that there was only 1 pair of pajamas for Madeleine.

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.04.17 12:14

@ChippyM wrote:Amelie apparently recognised 'Maddies Jammies'....

is it not possible Madeleine had more than 1 pair, an old pair that no longer fit her were taken with them as hand me downs for Amelie? Of course it is possible.

I don't see how it can be said with certainty that there was only 1 pair of pyjamas for Madeleine.
So how did Amelie instantly recognise that these jammies were Maddie's, not hers? This is important corroborative evidence in support of the other information that Dr Martin Roberts has so brilliantly researched and made available to us.

Besides that, it's never been part of the McCanns' narrative that Madeleine had more than one pair of pjyamas on holiday. They've never actually said: "We took two pairs for Maddie".

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by BlueBag on 18.04.17 12:30

They've never actually said: "We took two pairs for Maddie".

They would have done though.

I remember what it was like when my kids were that age.
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Doug D on 18.04.17 13:16

ChippyM:
 
‘is it not possible Madeleine had more than 1 pair, an old pair that no longer fit her were taken with them as hand me downs for Amelie? Of course it is possible.’
 
I have a recollection that the pyjamas, the buttoned version, were released by M&S in the summer of 2006 and then changed to the button-less version in the summer of 2007. If this was the case, it would reduce the likelihood of hand-me-downs.
 
Had a look but can’t find anything about them this morning though, but generally the shops don’t keep these things for very long and knock out a new line and design to try and drum up sales.

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by roz on 20.04.17 14:27

I think that Kate’s quandary over the tea stain on the pyjamas was mentioned simply to re-inforce a sequence;  think child’s pyjamas, think child put to bed, think child abducted from bed in pyjamas.
It leads me to think that Madeleine was not in bed-time attire at all when ‘it’ happened.

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Irene 2 on 23.04.17 19:14

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:PeterMac has let me pinch this quote which is from a new upcoming chapter for his ebook: http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/



Some time ago many of us tried to make a list of all the blatant lies and untruths said by, or on behalf of, the McCanns and the Tapas 7.  So long was the list that eventually it had to go to print in shortened form.

Here I have tried to pinpoint things said by relatives and friends, who perhaps thought they were being supportive and helpful, but which turned out not to be.

Some of the things said either damaged the “official story” as it was at the time - because as we know even that has changed with the seasons - or caused researchers to focus on the point being made.  


* * * * 

1st prize
Uncle John McCann - Maddy’s ‘jammies'


Pride of place must surely go to Uncle John.  

According to John McCann: "Kate dressed Amelie in her sister's pyjamas and the baby said: 'Maddy's jammies. Where is Maddy?' 

Even the devout Kate (see later) must cringe when she reads that.

‘Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings’   Matthew 21:16

In five devastating words - of which only two are important - Amelie demonstrated

a) The pyjamas were Madeleine’s - and logically therefore Madeleine was not wearing them when she ‘disappeared’.  The implications of this are surely obvious.

b) There were no duplicate pyjamas owned and worn by Amelie, as the McCanns mendaciously and unconvincingly claimed later, when they realised they had been caught out having shown Madeleine’s pyjamas in public.

b) Madeleine was known as Maddy within the family, despite the subsequent mendacious insistence by Kate that this contraction was an invention of the press.   Amelie neatly corroborates everything the world already knew.


Not bad for 2 words from a 2 year old !  Many thanks to Uncle John for telling the world.

I'm sorry but I still don't understand this. I watched Richard Halls 6 films yesterday and read Dr. Robert's report but it's puzzled me since. 
Were the pyjamas in the photograph claimed to have been Madeleine's by whoever gave it to the police? If not why couldn't they have been a hand me down pair of Amelias? 
They are photographed on what looks like the sofa in 5A and I know there wasn't another apartment used by the group with blue upholstery. McCanns moved out of 5A during the early hours of 4th May but did they take everything from the apartment with them? If not and if they were a hand me down pair of Amelias they could have photographed them when they collected their things from the apartment. I'm sorry for so many ifs.
I know Kate McCann said she hadn't taken any photographs since the fake last one but they both say a lot of stuff only for effect.  Did Amelia always refer to them as Maddies jammies when she'd seen Madeleine wearing them when they were still hers? 
I'm not buying anything about an abduction but this could simply have been something to claim she was wearing but in a larger size without buttons. Not unusual as smaller size tops often have buttons to ease putting them on. 
They claimed there were a pair of Madeleleine's dirty pyjamas in their hire car but wasn't all of their dirty washing done by the site laundry on the 4th or 5th?

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 23.04.17 19:21



Have you read this? http://onlyinamericablogging.blogspot.com/2016/03/a-nightwear-job-by-dr-martin-roberts.html

Look at how Dr Martin Roberts measures Gerry's arm alongside Amelie and those on display were said to be 'a little bit smaller than Maddie's'! She would be tripping up in those jammies.
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Irene 2 on 23.04.17 19:39

Yes thanks I read the link yesterday. In the photo of him holding them up, including his hand, his forearm looks to be about the same length as the pyjamas. They have larger pants as is usual for that size to fit over a nappy which pulls them up a bit when worn.   Did whoever gave the photo to the police claim they were Madeleine's pyjamas? What am I missing?

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Verdi on 29.10.17 21:29

Researching Snr Amaral's book, the Truth of the Lie,  for something in particular regarding forensic evidence - I chanced upon this..

An Irish family in a state of shock - Chapter 20

The McCann couple return to Great Britain after more than four months spent in the Algarve. It’s an almost triumphant return. The media coverage is such that you’d think you were witnessing the liberation of hostages held for years in a far-off country. Gerald McCann is shown on television carrying his son, as he descends from the plane. The child’s head is against Gerald’s left shoulder and his arms dangling by his sides. Gerald walks across the tarmac, still holding his son closely against himself.

In Ireland, the Smiths are watching the BBC news, which is broadcasting the event. For them, it’s a shock: that person, they recognise him. That way of carrying his child, that way of walking…It’s the man they saw at around 10pm on May 3rd, with a little girl, who seemed to be deeply asleep, in his arms.

This image, brings back with a jolt, that of the man they encountered in the streets of Vila da Luz, on the evening of Madeleine’s disappearance. It’s as if the scene is repeating itself ….Mr Smith thinking he’s hallucinating, sees the same report on other channels, ITV and Sky News. From that moment, he is sure: the man they came across that night was Gerald McCann. Of that there is very little doubt. Upset by the implications of this discovery, he alerts the police and waits to be called back by those in charge of the investigation.

When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, “sent,” the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who – if he was the guilty party – would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat’s house, but west in the direction of the beach.

We decide to get the Smiths back to the Algarve, for a formal identification of Gerry McCann – by means of televised images, certainly – direct confrontation being impossible – and possibly proceed to a reconstruction of the events of the night of May 3rd. The National Director of the Judiciary police agrees, the process is set in motion, all the details are sorted out; all that remains is to choose the hotel where they will be put up. But the Smiths were never to come back to Portugal. After my departure, the PJ were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later. Meanwhile, rumours were to circulate and people not involved with the investigation would be made aware of the existence of this witness; someone allegedly even sought out contact with the family, without its being known to what end.
-----------


Apart from raising the obvious question .... 'why did it take from September 2007 (the McCanns return to the UK) to Crimewatch 2013, for the (sighting by way of an e-fit) to be released for public identification. 

At the time of Snr Amaral's removal from the case continuing one year later to the time of his book release, he was still working on the hypothesis that Madeleine met with her fate on Thursday 3rd May 2007.

Considering the extensive research and analysis undertaken by members of CMoMM and associates, revealing compelling evidence that Madeleine met her fate earlier in the week, sometime between Sunday 29th April and Tuesday 1st May - I wonder what Snr Amaral thinks now?

Hopefully all will be revealed in due course.  In particular his views on the veracity of the Smith sighting which has proved to be riddled with inconsistencies.

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Basil with a brush on 30.10.17 6:30

Did the fridge disposal to a tip (by any member of the tapas crowd) actually take place?

Really?

No, really?

While on holiday?

Call me old fashioned.

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