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SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

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I've viewed Rich Hall's 4-minute clip about Maddie's pyjamas. After doing so....

1 I think the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine
 
2 I think the Smiths saw someone else carrying another child
 
3 I think the Smiths fabricated their sighting
 
4 I think something else
 
5 Still unsure
 
 
 
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Mike Tesko on 11.02.19 12:09

At this time, after 9.30pm, or thereabouts, the following people were absent from the tapas bar restaurant together:-

Gerry McCann
Russell O'Brien
Mathew Oldfield
Jane Tanner

Since Gerry had not returned to the tapas bar by around 10pm, Kate decided to go to her apartment to find out what the problem (if any) was. When she got there I believe that Jane Tanner was already present along with Mathew Oldfield. Gerry McCann had already left the apartment carrying off Maddie clutched close to his body, in good time to enable him to arrive down the hill in the street where the Smith Contingent saw him. Kate went back to the tapas bar to raise the pre-arranged alarm that 'they've taken her, they've taken her, Maddie is gone' - she was of course referring to her belief at that time that Gerry and one of the others had taken Maddies body out of the apartment...

The so called timings of the checks made by the families every 30 minutes or so, was introduced deliberately so that no-one would think that any of them could have had any time to be involved in Maddies disappearance. They did this by altering the time frame of the checks made by one and all of their respective apartments, and in the case of Russell O'Brien/ Mathew Oldfield it was postulated that they had done a check of the McCann Apartment in addition to their own, after 9.30pm, and discounted altogether the earlier visit to the McCann apartment by Russel O'Brien...

With this in mind, Jane Tanner could not have seen Gerry McCann standing in the street talking to Jez Wilkes shortly after his 9pm check, if such a sighting had occurred it could only have happened after 9.30pm, when McCann left the tapas bar..
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by sharonl on 11.02.19 18:49

With cadaver odour already developing as Madeleine must have been dead for some time.

Why were they checking the apartment? 
Were they really leaving the kids alone knowing that they had already lost one?
Didn't those checking 5a notice the smell?
Does the smith family have a problem with their noses?
What about the blood that was lost?  Didn't the Smiths notice any staining to Madeleine's hair or clothing?
If this as Gerry & Madeleine, why didn't he take a more sensible route or wait until the early hours and sound the alarm the following day?

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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Mike Tesko on 11.02.19 20:02

20:04:32
@sharonl wrote:With cadaver odour already developing as Madeleine must have been dead for some time. (Mike's response) - Easily overcome, simply put the cadaver inside an air tight plastic bag, such as a large black bin bag

Why were they checking the apartment? (Mike's response) - the others were genuinely checking their apartments, but the McCanns were planning to run the matter into the wee small hours, until Russell O'Brien went and upset the applecart by entering the McCann apartment just before 9.30pm, and upset Gerry McCann about the thought that O'Brien might have stumbled on the fact that Maddie wasn't sleeping in her bed, but was probably concealed behind the sofa, in a sealed bag, or worse still inside the wardrobe in the parents bedroom...

Were they really leaving the kids alone knowing that they had already lost one? (Mike's response) - Well, if we go by the official explanation that is precisely what Kate McCann says she did when she fled back to the tapas bar after discovering that Maddie had been supposedly abducted! She had lost one child, and what does she do, she runs off back to the tapas bar where she must have been when the imaginary abductor had taken Maddie, and left her other two younger siblings at peril of the same fate which had just befell Madeleine!

Didn't those checking 5a notice the smell? (Mike's response) - not if the McCann's had put Maddie's body in a large bin bag and tied a knot in it to make it airtight..

Does the smith family have a problem with their noses? (Mike's response) - McCann did not linger close enough to the Smith contingent when passing them in the street, there is no evidence that someone carrying a cadaver who had already been dead less than 24 hours beforehand would create the effect that you are suggesting in such a fleeting confrontation. Furthermore, how do we know whether or not the McCanns kept the cadaver of Maddie inside the fridge freezer overnight and throughout the day so that there was very little if any opportunity for a cadaveric odour to be instantly detectable to other humans, in the same way, and to the same extent as a cadaver dog whose sensory perceptions are far more finely tuned than a mere human?

What about the blood that was lost? (Mike's response) - any seepage of blood would be confined to the inside of the plastic bag her body had been sealed in..

Didn't the Smiths notice any staining to Madeleine's hair or clothing? (Mike's response) - the street lighting in the vicinity where the recognition took place, was not suitable for the purpose of anticipating that as the man carrying the child and the Smith's passed one another in such a fleeting glance moment that the quality of recognition occurred, or could occur in near perfect conditions!


If this was Gerry & Madeleine, why didn't he take a more sensible route or wait until the early hours and sound the alarm the following day? (Mike's response) - Well, that's easy to answer - the uninvited checking of apartment 5A by Russell O'Brien just before 9.30pm put the cat amongst the pigeons. Once McCann arrived back at apartment 5A after 9.30am, he obviously did the only thing that was open to him to be able to do in those circumstances, he gathered up Maddie's remains and temporarily hid then in the bushes and shrubbery of apartment 5A's front garden. I think his hand was forced because from his vantage point on the patio verandah he had a birds eye view and could see that Russell O'Brien and Mathew Oldfield were leaving the tapas bar and heading towards apartment 5A for some sort of a confrontation. Hence, why McCann had the guile to quickly conceal Maddies remains amongst the shrubbery and bushes beneath the patio. Thereupon, once O'Brien and Oldfield arrived at apartment 5A intent on confronting McCann about his lousy attitude concerning how he had reacted to O'Briens intrusion into the McCann apartment and carrying out a check on the McCann parents behalf! However, McCann diffused the situation by becoming angry that Madeleine was no longer to be found inside apartment 5A, she had gone missing, and there was reason to believe that McCann accused O'Brien of having something to do with Maddie's disappearance! At this juncture Oldfield and O'Brien chose to bite their tongues and dashed out into the surrounding neighbourhood looking for Madeleine? This served to provide McCann with the opportunity of picking up Maddie's body from amongst the shrubs and making off in the opposite direction to that enjoyed by O'Brien and Oldfield had gone in,  carrying Maddie's body in his arms. This then enabled McCann to be the person that was seen by the Smith's at about 10pm..
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Re: SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?

Post by Mike Tesko on 12.02.19 6:47

Maddie died in apartment 5A from head / neck injuries sustained during a fall off the back of a sofa in the lounge. At the time of the accident both parents were absent from the apartment and had left all three of their youngsters unsupervised and unprotected. When Kate returned to the apartment alone on the night of 2nd / 3rd May 2007, she discovered Madeleine with a bloody nose and complaining of head and neck pain. She put Madeleine to bed, and Kate slept in the spare bed in the children's bedroom. Later on when Gerry rolled in, he got into his bed and slept the remainder of the night alone.

Maddie was discovered to have died by breakfast time, and this was the first occasion he knew anything at all about an accident that Madeleine must have had. It suddenly dawned on both parents that they could be charged with neglect and negligence, that both could lose their jobs, that they might lose custody of their other two siblings, and go to jail..
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