Re: New DCI

by woodforthetrees 10.02.15 16:32

aquila wrote:
woodforthetrees wrote:
joyce1938 wrote:\\\\\\\\\\\\\hi I am not suggesting that the interview has taken place in the last few y,,ears ,it occurred possably soon after they returned from the holiday in Portugal . portuguese were offered to come over and sit in on it ,sorry I do wish I knew how to bring up things on line ,but I am sure someone else here would know this too ,ofcourse an awfull lot of the older members don't seem to post here now ,I realize this happens from time to time ,and when something comes up that is of more interest ,they come back . So very little to be said here now ,and that's the reason that some stuff is getting bad amongst the different sites , I really do not like this in fighting being going on of late .joyce1938.

Hi Joyce, no fighting intended and apologies if it read that way (i am in work so can only do quick replies).

I have no doubt that all parties were re-interviewed as part of the OG review process, to clarify the statements, unpick any translation errors and tie up any loose ends. Unfortunately, as the case is a live investigation, we, the general public, would not have any visibility of these discussions.
How do you have no doubt?
Because they went back to the beginning and went over all files. There would have to be 30 brain dead people within OG to go over everything except the statements of the people who were there and not discuss the case with them when they are on their doorstep. It's like having a problem with your car engine then taking it to the garage and saying "just look at the brakes, the clutch, anything, don't look at the main elements involved"

It's not clear what the remit is.
Its very clear what their remit is as they publish it. Initially their remit was to review the files, now they are investigating leads

It's absolutely unclear what Scotland Yard's authority is.
To the general public yes, but based on the fact that they have got their hands on Portuguese case files, it's the highest profile case of all time and they have very high level support. It's a safe bet to say they have whatever authority they want.

You speak of review process and that's interesting. Not really, it's fact. Do you think Scotland Yard had more power in the 'review process' to question everyone present in PDL at the time of Madeleine's disappearance than they have in a live investigation? I can't work out your last sentence or what you are leaning towards i'm afraid?!?! Various UK police forces were questioning people both at the time of the disappearance and will be doing so as part of the on-going investigation, post review

Very interesting point of view. I don't share it. I know, a lot of people don't and until i looked at it logically after recent discussions i was also inclined to believe that SY were really looking to pin it on the McCanns like Amaral and were just 'building a case'. My changed view is harder for some to follow when people are so hell bend on the idea that there is some secret operation going on and although the guilty parties have been sat across a table from them for SY for 3 years, in plain view, they let them go free whilst continuing to search for nothing.
In reality, whether the McCanns and tapas were questioned at the start of OG or if they left it a year, the outcome is the same.... they are not people of interest (unfortunately).

by mysterion 10.02.15 16:41

SY say they are looking for a lone intruder. Kate said "they" have taken her. The Madeleine Fund says "the abductors". How can SY or the Mccanns be so sure of their respective positions without some knowledge that hasn`t been declared.
The normal statement from the police with unsolved crimes is " person or persons unknown".

by woodforthetrees 10.02.15 16:50

j.rob wrote:
woodforthetrees wrote:
j.rob wrote:How can they have been ruled out? They are so obviously guilty of not telling the truth about what happened in my opinion. It's just so obvious. Why is this charade continuing? It's sheer madness.

J-Rob, they can be ruled out based on the FULL evidence SY have on their files and the results of their review and subsequent investigations.

I refuse to accept that the McCanns and the Tapas are ruled out. Not in my book they are not. SY know they are guilty of far more than neglect I am sure. They cannot be that thick. Madeleine's disappearance has all the hallmarks of an 'insider job' and none of the hallmarks of the extremely rare 'stranger abduction.'
And that is your choice to believe that, i just wouldn't want you to be disappointed. However, they are NOT looking at the McCanns whatsoever and regardless of Redwood public stating it, them not being hauled in after 3 yrs. i agree, they are not looking for a 'stranger abduction', they are looking for the removal of a deceased Madeleine after an act carried out in the apartment.

Agreed, they have not been truthful (IMO the entire child checking was entirely made up and they neglected their children all evening, every evening) and have changed stories to cover themselves against neglect charges,

Their involvement is far more than merely 'neglect', imo. It is far worse than that. The FACT that they have all been so forthright about their negligence is EVIDENCE as far as I am concerned that they are guilty of far worse. And have covered it up. And the police know, imo.
Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, just to point out again.... since 2007, they have not been held accountable for any 1 single thing and are not in the frame for anything, therefore what do you suggest they are trying to (in a very long winded, drawn out way) pin on them?

BUT, if SY had them in the frame for the murder/disposal of the body, they would've had them in by now. They have publicly stated that the McCanns and the tapas are not persons of interest and are looking for a lone intruder.

So this would mean that the entire police operation is a cover-up. A complete charade. A whitewash.
Exactly, i.e utterly bonkers. Only a true conspiriloon would believe that the gvt, all police within SY, the PJ, all the tapas group, every witness and every media outlet would be in on this 'whitewash'. Keep it simple....SY are looking for something, based on what they have/know, which points away from the McCanns. Nothing more complicated than that when it comes to the actual crime. The rest is just noise, people money making, wanting limelight etc etc

The charade is fueled by money hungry media, various court cases brought on by the McCanns and internet speculation, unfortunately.

How about media speculation? Been plenty of that, eh? Yep, big money to be make there, both by the media and by bent police telling all kinds of rubbish for a quick quid. The charade fuelled also by the Mcs desperation to clear their names. As anyone would when being told they are guilty. Wouldn't you? Which appears to be working if SY really are pretending that Madeleine was stolen by a random burglar. They are not, that's just what goes in the media Astonishing. The 'abduction' has all the hallmarks of a fake - faked by the parents and their friends. Every single indicator is there. So again, ask yourself...if all the indicators are there, why has 4 police forces not arrested them???? Because.....evidence points somewhere else

Agreed, it is utter madness, but until they locate the body or the perp, the investigation into the disappearance (by not the parents involvement) continues.

You know as well as everybody else that it is highly unlikely there is any body to locate. Agreed Gerry: "find the body and prove we killed her."

The perp? Singular? No evidence of that. The perpetrators - plural - Gerry McCann, David Payne, imo, probably other male tapas and, i suspect, some involvement of other 'guests' at the OC that week who are/were known to the McCanns. Again, based on the PJ PII files and internet forums you have read. I too thought the same, but it's clearly not as they still haven't been arrested and OG are not looking at them

I dread to think what sort of 'holiday' it was. Most certainly not a holiday for that poor child.

Not the parents involvement, you say? If SY say they are not and nothing has been pinned on them in this time period then i'd be inclined to agree with that yes. That said, i think they are guilty of death by neglect, fraud (fund, as they were informed very early on she was gone, even before the cadaver findings) and perverting the course of justice by falsifying statements.

Totally disagree. There is every indication that they are involved and at least some of their friends. And they all covered up what really happened. With very high level support. Which continues to this day. Hence the police whitewash - so far. Agreed, they are well protected, hence no neglect charges

Eventually, it will all come out, imo. I very much doubt that unless a body turns up or the perp is located and confesses, which again, after this amount of time is highly unlikely

by woodforthetrees 10.02.15 16:52

mysterion wrote:SY say they are looking for a lone intruder. Kate said "they" have taken her. The Madeleine Fund says "the abductors". How can SY or the Mccanns be so sure of their respective positions without some knowledge that hasn`t been declared.
The normal statement from the police with unsolved crimes is " person or persons unknown".

I would be more inclined to go with what SY say, what Kate says is just whatever falls out of her mouth at that particular moment.

by joyce1938 10.02.15 16:53

I just had the memory about the interview ,when someone from pj sat in on it ,and wheni realized that someone let the tappas or a couple of them to review what the spouse had said ,that really made me sit up and take notice WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE? noT CERTAIN IF IT WAS BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD GO BACK AFTER LEAVING PORTUGAL so had to continue in England or what . I may try to look at mcase files when I can . I am not at all offended if asked to be cleare on any thing I send . Don't lets forget ,at the start The leictershire police were over in Portugal ,they also found discrepencies and had I think agreed with Mr amaral and what conclusion he had come to . They were withdrawn and it may have been one of those that needed the info.? Then they went very quiet ,most strange as I look back . joyce1938

by Guest 10.02.15 17:55

Much as been made about SY saying that the McCanns aren't of interest or suspects,lets look at the original remit.

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

Now take in the context of what Redwood at the time referred to and its obvious they aren't suspects,there is not a shred of evidence they are involved in an abduction,no one any where as suggested as much.
Now last autumn Bernard Hogan Howe told us it was a murder investigation,can any one any where say that any one is not under suspicion of this crime.

by j.rob 10.02.15 18:10

what do you suggest they are trying to (in a very long winded, drawn out way) pin on them?

They are not trying to pin anything on them. Quite the opposite. They are trying to pin the blame on anyone but TM. The other possibility is that they are trying to 'flush' someone out.

they are looking for the removal of a deceased Madeleine after an act carried out in the apartment.

How do you know this? The 'lone intruder' intrudes into the apartment and kills Madeleine. Then runs out carrying her body? That is ridiculous. Or the 'lone intruder' intrudes into the apartment, finds Madeleine dead and decides to take her. That is even more ridiculous.

As it happens, I think the sentence above describes what happened. Something bad happened earlier in the week. I suspect that one or several adult males had entered the apartment. A *disaster* occurred. I think someone lashed out to silence a sobbing Madeleine. A 'pact' was made. A body was removed from the apartment or a nearby apartment.

since 2007, they have not been held accountable for any 1 single thing and are not in the frame for anything, therefore what do you suggest they are trying to (in a very long winded, drawn out way) pin on them?

They have been protected to the extent that they are not being held accountable for anything. I agree. It's disgusting.

Keep it simple....SY are looking for something, based on what they have/know, which points away from the McCanns. Nothing more complicated than that when it comes to the actual crime. The rest is just noise, people money making, wanting limelight etc etc

Yes. Anything to avoid pointing the finger of suspicion away from where it should be, imo.

So again, ask yourself...if all the indicators are there, why has 4 police forces not arrested them???? Because.....evidence points somewhere else

Because they have been protected. Because it is a massive can of worms and exposure of the truth will have huge ramifications which go much further than simply the TM cover-up.

Again, based on the PJ PII files and internet forums you have read. I too thought the same, but it's clearly not as they still haven't been arrested and OG are not looking at them

They are doing everything possible to look in the opposite direction. To the extent of coming up with loony theories.

That said, i think they are guilty of death by neglect, fraud (fund, as they were informed very early on she was gone, even before the cadaver findings) and perverting the course of justice by falsifying statements.

Death by neglect. Interesting phrase. I agree. I think she was abused and then TM neglected to seek appropriate medical and other care. I think it is that bad.

Agreed, they are well protected, hence no neglect charges

Hence police looking in the opposite direction. No abuse charges or other charges relating to this tragic case.

I very much doubt that unless a body turns up or the perp is located and confesses, which again, after this amount of time is highly unlikely

Gerry will have made sure that the body cannot be found I would think. The perps or at least their accomplices have already been located. And, in actual fact, if you scrutinize the media interviews and the witness statements, they have pretty much confessed as well. The early TV interview in which Kate recounts the Madeleine waking up incident is particularly incriminating, imo. I think Kate pretty much tells us what happened in that interview. And Gerry too says a couple of things that are highly revealing. Very incriminating. I will try to locate the interview. It says it all, imo.

by j.rob 10.02.15 18:22

WMD wrote:Much as been made about SY saying that the McCanns aren't of interest or suspects,lets look at the original remit.

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

Now take in the context of what Redwood at the time referred to and its obvious they aren't suspects,there is not a shred of evidence they are involved in an abduction,no one any where as suggested as much.
Now last autumn Bernard Hogan Howe told us it was a murder investigation,can any one any where say that any one is not under suspicion of this crime.

Don't you just love it! Every single person in the world is a potential person of interest in this case EXCEPT the McCanns and their friends! Who, incredibly, were the last people to see Madeleine alive!

Ha! So, theoretically, everyone is the world could be guilty EXCEPT for the McCann family and their friends on holiday.

The world is a big place with a lot of people in it.

So, in seven years, the investigation has moved from looking for an alive (supposedly) Madeleine with a random (paedophile) abductor with alleged 'sightings' all over the world, to looking for a random intruder who killed and removed Madeleine. And who could be anyone anywhere in the world. Apart from the McCanns and the Tapas!

spin

by Monty Heck 10.02.15 19:44

Tony Bennett wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:I may well have this wrong but has OG authority to interview witnesses domiciled in the UK? From what I have gathered all interviews have taken place in Portugal...All under a blaze of publicity...
It might depend on what you mean by 'interviews'.

On the record, we know that two British citizens and at least one Irish citizen have been 'interviewed', namely:

1. Dr Kate McCann
2. Dr Gerald McCann, and
3. Mr Martin Smith.

Drs Kate and Gerald McCann have had interviews with Operation Grange, so far as we know, from time to time, 'to keep them abreast of developments in the case'. The Prime Minister's spokesman said on the day Operation Grange was set up (12 May 2011) that OG was 'to help the family' and later DCI Andy Redwood said that neither the McCanns nor any of their friends were suspects in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from Praia da Luz. So keeping them informed about the investigation is in line with those statements.

As for Martin Smith, all we know on the record is that he (possibly other members of his family, but we don't know) met DCI Redwood at least once in 2012 and once in 2013. We don't know where they met. We don't know if other members of Martin Smith's family were there. We don't know what they discussed.

I think it must have been something like this:

"Look, these e-fits you drew up sometime in 2008 with that former Head of MI5 covert intelligence, Henri Exton, you know, Kevin Halligen's sidekick, the bloke brought in by Brian Kennedy to try to find Madeleine - which look like two quite different men - are you OK with us telling millions of people in Britain on a BBC Crimewatch programme that these really are two likenesses of the bloke you say you all saw for a few seconds on a dark night in Portugal back in 2007?".

I guess Smith replied something like: "Well, OK, if you think our humble recollections are that important to your investigation, then, fine, go ahead!"

Thank you. By "interview" I mean the "so and so are helping police with their inquiries" type, not "call in and we'll give you an update on the investigation".

by mysterion 10.02.15 20:06

Putting a "Hobbs" hat on, AR said PdL not Apartment 5A. I would expect senior police offices to be more specific or was it deliberate.

by Monty Heck 10.02.15 21:47

woodforthetrees wrote:Monty Heck wrote:
I may well have this wrong but has OG authority to interview witnesses domiciled in the UK? Yes, it is a UK investigation, therefore can question UK residents on UK soil From what I have gathered all interviews have taken place in Portugal via the PJ under letters rogatory. For Portuguese residents on Portuguese soil All under a blaze of publicity so hard to see that secret interviews have been carried out by OG in the UK. How many of the thousands of cases SY work on have you seen interviews performed in public? none. The tapas group and SY would not want the glare of publicity therefore would hold any questioning behind closed doors. Besides, gagging orders stop details regarding tapas and the McCanns and the investigation being published At whose request _ the PJ? No, SY, it is a UK investigation!Understand OG have said they aren't currently looking at T9 but that's not a declaration of innocence. Eh? so how is that a declaration of guilt? If they had been interviewed and definitively ruled out by OG (they have) no question the media would have been all over the story. Gagging order, so no. Nothing to suggest they have been questioned so far. Apart from the fact that they are in the UK, SY are in the UK, they have been looking at everything in the case for the last 3 years and have not charged them with anything! Are you suggesting they just sit twiddling their thumbs then after say 5yrs suddenly say "you know what we should do lads... we should maybe interview the tapas group, you know the ones we cleared years ago". Totally illogical.

Just wonder why no gagging orders for all those interviewed at Grange's behest in Portugal - plenty media exposure for those guys including the high profile Murat. Even if UK gagging orders are in place it would be a stretch to conclude that possibility means the McCs have ever been interviewed by OG far less declared innocent. OG have made clear they are investigating a burglary gone wrong which does not in itself mean they believe the McCs are innocent. It's a working hypothesis just as the PJ's take was a working hypothesis about parental involvement and if Grange cannot come up with evidence to back up their current line of enquiry they are no further ahead than the PJ managed pre shelving of the case.

For the record I neither said nor implied anything was proof of guilt nor suggested OG have been twiddling anything, I merely queried what has kept so many occupied this long.

by woodforthetrees 11.02.15 9:14

j.rob wrote:what do you suggest they are trying to (in a very long winded, drawn out way) pin on them?
They are not trying to pin anything on them. Quite the opposite. They are trying to pin the blame on anyone but TM. The other possibility is that they are trying to 'flush' someone out.

they are looking for the removal of a deceased Madeleine after an act carried out in the apartment.
How do you know this? The 'lone intruder' intrudes into the apartment and kills Madeleine. Then runs out carrying her body? That is ridiculous. Or the 'lone intruder' intrudes into the apartment, finds Madeleine dead and decides to take her. That is even more ridiculous.

As it happens, I think the sentence above describes what happened. Something bad happened earlier in the week. I suspect that one or several adult males had entered the apartment. A *disaster* occurred. I think someone lashed out to silence a sobbing Madeleine. A 'pact' was made. A body was removed from the apartment or a nearby apartment.

since 2007, they have not been held accountable for any 1 single thing and are not in the frame for anything, therefore what do you suggest they are trying to (in a very long winded, drawn out way) pin on them?

They have been protected to the extent that they are not being held accountable for anything. I agree. It's disgusting.

Keep it simple....SY are looking for something, based on what they have/know, which points away from the McCanns. Nothing more complicated than that when it comes to the actual crime. The rest is just noise, people money making, wanting limelight etc etc
Yes. Anything to avoid pointing the finger of suspicion away from where it should be, imo.

So again, ask yourself...if all the indicators are there, why has 4 police forces not arrested them???? Because.....evidence points somewhere else
Because they have been protected. Because it is a massive can of worms and exposure of the truth will have huge ramifications which go much further than simply the TM cover-up.

Again, based on the PJ PII files and internet forums you have read. I too thought the same, but it's clearly not as they still haven't been arrested and OG are not looking at them
They are doing everything possible to look in the opposite direction. To the extent of coming up with loony theories.

That said, i think they are guilty of death by neglect, fraud (fund, as they were informed very early on she was gone, even before the cadaver findings) and perverting the course of justice by falsifying statements.
Death by neglect. Interesting phrase. I agree. I think she was abused and then TM neglected to seek appropriate medical and other care. I think it is that bad.

Agreed, they are well protected, hence no neglect charges
Hence police looking in the opposite direction. No abuse charges or other charges relating to this tragic case.

I very much doubt that unless a body turns up or the perp is located and confesses, which again, after this amount of time is highly unlikely
Gerry will have made sure that the body cannot be found I would think. The perps or at least their accomplices have already been located. And, in actual fact, if you scrutinize the media interviews and the witness statements, they have pretty much confessed as well. The early TV interview in which Kate recounts the Madeleine waking up incident is particularly incriminating, imo. I think Kate pretty much tells us what happened in that interview. And Gerry too says a couple of things that are highly revealing. Very incriminating. I will try to locate the interview. It says it all, imo.

HI Jrob, the majority of your responses have been discussed many times, so no point going over old ground.

One thing to consider though, is that if the McCanns are guilty but SY are looking to pin the blame on someone else, it would not take this long. They'd have it pinned on someone a long time ago, been the heroes who 'solved the case' and they wouldn't have spent £10m (still) looking.

Protected and influential, yes, hence the amount of resources thrown at this case and them not being charged with neglect etc, but nothing else.

If SY thought they were guilty, they would have either agreed with the PJ findings years ago and washed their hands of the McCanns, or fitted someone up for it a long time ago.

by woodforthetrees 11.02.15 9:26

Monty Heck

Just wonder why no gagging orders for all those interviewed at Grange's behest in Portugal - plenty media exposure for those guys including the high profile Murat. If they haven't got gagging orders in place, then that's down to them Even if UK gagging orders are in place it would be a stretch to conclude that possibility means the McCs have ever been interviewed by OG far less declared innocent. Gagging orders do not mean that the police aren't allowed to speak to the McCanns, it just means that details about any discussions can't be made public OG have made clear they are investigating a burglary gone wrong in the media yes, it doesn't sound as horrific as 'we are looking for a predatory paedo who raped and killed a child', plus without conclusive evidence of that, they can't state it (and wouldn't do anyway until the perp is charged and/or convicted), plus the word 'abduction' gives hope to the public which does not in itself mean they believe the McCs are innocent. Correct, therefore SY have evidence on their file to confidently say that they are innocent and not charge them with anything after 3yrs It's a working hypothesis just as the PJ's take was a working hypothesis about parental involvement and if Grange cannot come up with evidence to back up their current line of enquiry they are no further ahead than the PJ managed pre shelving of the case. Agreed and i think this is the way it will go. They have evidence, theory and motive and are working through the mountains of paperwork to remove all the extra anomalies, but ultimately, without a guilty perp and/or a body, it's a very difficult nut to crack

For the record I neither said nor implied anything was proof of guilt nor suggested OG have been twiddling anything, I merely queried what has kept so many occupied this long. I know, don't worry, it's probably how i replied, i can seem very direct/blunt with a hint of sarcasm at times and for that i apologize, don;t take it personally. I'm playing devils advocate a lot at the moment to try and remove 'conspiracy' and help us all not get get caught up in the 'SY could be doing XYZ' trap and also keep focus on justice for Madeleine, rather than just a witch hunt to make evidence fit the parents guilt theory (for the murder/disposal part. I full agree they are guilty of many things)

by Dr What 11.02.15 11:19

To my knowledge, the original findings and conclusions of the PJ investigation which point to the death of Madeleine, the simulation of an abduction, and the involvement of the parents in the removal of the body, have NOT been withdrawn.

After all these years,SY have NOT come out and produced a report that officially clears the parents of involvement.

I think that I can continue to assume that, until an official report is produced that supercedes and contradicts the original PJ report, work is taking place to get the evidence that will not only bring the parents to Court, but will stand up under legal challenge.

In the Court of Public Opinion, I suspect that the actions of the parents during their holiday have already been judged.

by Rogue-a-Tory 11.02.15 11:34

To repeat once more, there is a only 1 in 25 chance that the disappearance DIDN'T involve the parents or friends - that's before examining the SOC evidence of - no break in, no break out or no forensic evidence of any person other than the McCs or friends being in 5A.

by joyce1938 11.02.15 11:45

I agree, there needs to be a watertight case before going to court is an issue ,I think I could be a risk to take into court ,without concrete evidence having it thrown out is not a choice most would make .I just sadly feel it wont be into court till a lot more solid evidence is available ,if ever .joyce1938

by woodforthetrees 11.02.15 13:04

Dr What wrote:To my knowledge, the original findings and conclusions of the PJ investigation which point to the death of Madeleine, the simulation of an abduction, and the involvement of the parents in the removal of the body, have NOT been withdrawn. PJ's theory yes. SY cannot withdraw someone elses theory

After all these years,SY have NOT come out and produced a report that officially clears the parents of involvement. Here we go again.... they don't need to clear them as they are not investigating them, which in itself means that SY already believe they are innocent...hence them not being charged with anything and Redwood publicly stating they are not investigating the parents or tapas as involved

I think that I can continue to assume that, until an official report is produced that supercedes and contradicts the original PJ report, work is taking place to get the evidence that will not only bring the parents to Court, but will stand up under legal challenge. Again, it wouldn't take OG 3 years to just agree with the PJ findings, it would've been agreed, signed, sealed and they would be in court. They clearly don't agree as the investigation is on-going and they are not interested in the parents and are following up leads based on their findings.

In the Court of Public Opinion, I suspect that the actions of the parents during their holiday have already been judged. Absolutely and quite rightly so in terms of their parenting skills, regardless of the truth about the guilty party for the murder and disposal of the child

by woodforthetrees 11.02.15 13:06

Rogue-a-Tory wrote:To repeat once more, there is a only 1 in 25 chance that the disappearance DIDN'T involve the parents or friends - that's before examining the SOC evidence of - no break in, no break out or no forensic evidence of any person other than the McCs or friends being in 5A.

To repeat once more.... SY are following their review and evidence findings and are not building a case against the McCanns or the tapas group, but on an unidentified intruder.

by Dr What 11.02.15 13:55

However inconvenient it is to the McCann team and however damning it is to the McCann team, the official PJ report and conclusions, is the only set of conclusions that has been produced.The OG team may well have made statements on TV regarding the McCanns, but these statements are very carefully worded and to repeat, they have not yet produced any official report.

I'm fairly sure that the default position of the McCann team is to 'admit to' a bit of neglect here and a bit of neglect there as a necessary evil. However, it could be a lot more that they are accountable for before this is all over.

The only official report produced by the PJ may well turn out to be totally correct.No-one on this or any other forum knows any different.So, as I say, until some Police Force produces a revised official report with conclusions, I'll stick with the one that is out there.

I'm fairly sure also, that the McCann team would like us all to forget the PJ conclusions and will lose no opportunity to try to do so.That is what they are paid to do.

by Guest 11.02.15 13:59

Dr What wrote:However inconvenient it is to the McCann team and however damning it is to the McCann team, the official PJ report and conclusions, is the only set of conclusions that has been produced.The OG team may well have made statements on TV regarding the McCanns, but these statements are very carefully worded and to repeat, they have not yet produced any official report.

I'm fairly sure that the default position of the McCann team is to 'admit to' a bit of neglect here and a bit of neglect there as a necessary evil. However, it could be a lot more that they are accountable for before this is all over.

The only official report produced by the PJ may well turn out to be totally correct.No-one on this or any other forum knows any different.So, as I say, until some Police Force produces a revised official report with conclusions, I'll stick with the one that is out there.

I'm fairly sure also, that the McCann team would like us all to forget the PJ conclusions and will lose no opportunity to try to do so.That is what they are paid to do.

by woodforthetrees 11.02.15 14:57

Dr What wrote:However inconvenient it is to the McCann team and however damning it is to the McCann team, the official PJ report and conclusions, is the only set of conclusions that has been produced. So farThe OG team may well have made statements on TV regarding the McCanns, but these statements are very carefully worded and to repeat, they have not yet produced any official report. There will not be an 'official report' until the case is closed as it is an on-going investigation

I'm fairly sure that the default position of the McCann team is to 'admit to' a bit of neglect here and a bit of neglect there as a necessary evil. However, it could be a lot more that they are accountable for before this is all over. Agreed, and this is the bit they are being protected against

The only official report produced by the PJ may well turn out to be totally correct.No-one on this or any other forum knows any different.So, as I say, until some Police Force produces a revised official report with conclusions, I'll stick with the one that is out there. Fair enough, if you want to believe that this is all some master plan to nail the parents then so be it. I for one have it on very good authority that they are not suspects in the death and disposal of the body, so after re-thinking about the events of the last 3 years, applying logic to it and discussing various aspects, i have now changed my belief from the original one based on the selection of PJ files put on the internet

I'm fairly sure also, that the McCann team would like us all to forget the PJ conclusions and will lose no opportunity to try to do so. I think they would more likely want to prove them wrong and humiliate them, not make them forget what they've said That is what they are paid to do. There is no proof of this

by Rogue-a-Tory 11.02.15 15:20

woodforthetrees wrote:
Rogue-a-Tory wrote:To repeat once more, there is a only 1 in 25 chance that the disappearance DIDN'T involve the parents or friends - that's before examining the SOC evidence of - no break in, no break out or no forensic evidence of any person other than the McCs or friends being in 5A.
To repeat once more.... SY are following their review and evidence findings and are not building a case against the McCanns or the tapas group, but on an unidentified intruder.

Which is why they can't close their enquiry. Their theory doesn't square the circle with the facts. Going to an OG team briefing must be a kin to attending a monthly meeting of the Flat Earth Society

by woodforthetrees 11.02.15 15:35

Rogue-a-Tory wrote:
woodforthetrees wrote:
Rogue-a-Tory wrote:To repeat once more, there is a only 1 in 25 chance that the disappearance DIDN'T involve the parents or friends - that's before examining the SOC evidence of - no break in, no break out or no forensic evidence of any person other than the McCs or friends being in 5A.
To repeat once more.... SY are following their review and evidence findings and are not building a case against the McCanns or the tapas group, but on an unidentified intruder.
Which is why they can't close their enquiry. Their theory doesn't square the circle with the facts. Going to an OG team briefing must be a kin to attending a monthly meeting of the Flat Earth Society

This is a very vague assumption based on your thinking that the released PII files are the entire files and also 'fact' and not just Amarals theory.

A more plausible one is that they have evidence (DNA) and intelligence, but cannot locate the person or have enough evidence for a clear conviction. More importantly, they will be focusing on trying to locate the body, as that will hold vital clues.

Regardless of whether the parents are guilty or not (only Amarals investigation thinks they are and after recent conversations i have had, i now do not believe they disposed of her), SY do not think they are guilty and are not investigating the parents or tapas.

by Jamming 11.02.15 15:38

woodforthetrees wrote:This is a very vague assumption based on your thinking that the released PII files are the entire files and also 'fact' and not just Amarals theory.

A more plausible one is that they have evidence (DNA) and intelligence, but cannot locate the person or have enough evidence for a clear conviction. More importantly, they will be focusing on trying to locate the body, as that will hold vital clues.

Regardless of whether the parents are guilty or not (only Amarals investigation thinks they are and after recent conversations i have had, i now do not believe they disposed of her), SY do not think they are guilty and are not investigating the parents or tapas.

These recent conversations that have changed your mind on things, mind telling us who they were with ?

by Rogue-a-Tory 11.02.15 16:17

woodforthetrees wrote:
Rogue-a-Tory wrote:
woodforthetrees wrote:
Rogue-a-Tory wrote:To repeat once more, there is a only 1 in 25 chance that the disappearance DIDN'T involve the parents or friends - that's before examining the SOC evidence of - no break in, no break out or no forensic evidence of any person other than the McCs or friends being in 5A.
To repeat once more.... SY are following their review and evidence findings and are not building a case against the McCanns or the tapas group, but on an unidentified intruder.
Which is why they can't close their enquiry. Their theory doesn't square the circle with the facts. Going to an OG team briefing must be a kin to attending a monthly meeting of the Flat Earth Society
This is a very vague assumption based on your thinking that the released PII files are the entire files and also 'fact' and not just Amarals theory.

A more plausible one is that they have evidence (DNA) and intelligence, but cannot locate the person or have enough evidence for a clear conviction. More importantly, they will be focusing on trying to locate the body, as that will hold vital clues.

Regardless of whether the parents are guilty or not (only Amarals investigation thinks they are and after recent conversations i have had, i now do not believe they disposed of her), SY do not think they are guilty and are not investigating the parents or tapas.

Let's face it, the three point outcome of the Portuguese investigation was anything but vague - as you well know.

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