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British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by SallyVern on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 13:29

@sallypelt wrote:
@SallyVern wrote:I trust Dr Amaral and considering the length of time it took to move Madeleine's body then his theory makes sense. I recall (a rumour?) he said evidence had been found suggesting Madelene's body was frozen prior to being moved in the hire car. Maybe frozen while waiting for the first available funeral? but it's a huge gamble to take. What if someone looked in the coffin prior to the cremation.

I can't remember the guy's name, the one that stored the hire car for the McCanns. Maybe his freezer should undergo forensic examination just to make sure.

It would be interesting to know who this woman was, and when was the funeral, exactly. Moreover, do we have on record, the times that the McCann's visited the church, and if so, did they ever go there in a car, or did they go at night? They did have a key, so they could go whenever they wanted to.
Sallypelt, I know it's a long shot but if the date can be found and it coincides with the McCanns visiting the Pope then maybe someone else moved Madeleine's body in the hire car for them while the media was otherwise occupied. Maybe a Portuguese member could search through obituaries?

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by SallyVern on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 13:30

Thank you Cassius

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Markus 2 on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 13:40

Gonçalo Amaral: "The priests also know very well what happened that night

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/goncalo-amaral-priests-also-know-very.html

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by frost on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 13:57

if the priest was arrested on some kind of charge relating to Madeleines disappearance eg on suspicion of helping conceal a body when questioned by the police about conversations with the McCanns would he have to spill the beans because he was now under oath or would his the rules of the church sorry not sure how to word that overide being under oath .

although I guess it would be a case of no comment either way tbh

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by sallypelt on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 13:59

@truthfultiger wrote:I don't think it would be beyond their with to hide the body in someone else's coffin covertly. Most churches have a diary lying around, into which you can book use of the church or hall. You would just need to sneak a peak at this to tell when the next funeral was to take place. It would not be necessary to know if it was to be a cremation or burial, although from the point of view of concealing evidence it is better if it is a cremation. I believe that the McCann's were allowed to access the church at odd times to avoid the press which would theoretically make it much easier to hide a body in another coffin. Not sure how you would get the lid off but probably doable...

In my opinion this would explain a lot in terms of the hire car. If the body was refrigerated while they waited for a funeral then moved in the car to the church... Or items such as the blue bag which had Perhaps been used to carry her were moved in the car for disposal.

Does anyone know out you can DNA test Ashes?

On another note, I believe that one or both of the McCanns are psychopaths and that they quite possibly targeted the church as a way of disposing of the body, knowing that people within the church would perhaps be easier to manipulate (as they are more likely to be sympathetic and try to see the good in people). It is quite common for psychopaths to engage in religious activities as it is often easier to exploit people in these situations.

Many coffins remain open up to the last minute. This allows people to view their loved one/s. Also, the McCann's had a key to the church, so they could go there whenever they wanted to, even at night

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by aiyoyo on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:07

The mystery of the missing body deepens.....it could be anywhere or nowhere if cremation is believed.

The MET had been fooled by intelligence so far, and despite pinpointing several locations and doing finger search they turned up empty handed yet abandoned search ahead of time. Very strange!
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by ChippyM on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:27

Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by lj on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:29

If Dr. Amaral can prove statements have disappeared from the British files it's case closed on the whitewash.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by sallypelt on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:30

@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

True ChippyM. I am not familiar with Portuguese laws, but the point I was making was that it's not unusual to leave the lid open, as in not screwed down, until closer to the day of the funeral. Maybe there was a place in the church in Portugal that was similar to the UK's Chapel of Rest.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by ChippyM on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:36

@sallypelt wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

True ChippyM. I am not familiar with Portuguese laws, but the point I was making was that it's not unusual to leave the lid open, as in not screwed down, until closer to the day of the funeral. Maybe there was a place in the church in Portugal that was similar to the UK's Chapel of Rest.

  Yes possibly a chapel of rest, I don't know what is normal in Portugal. I was also thinking in terms of certain practicalities with it being a warm country. Sorry for going there but I'm sure you see what I mean!

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by beijos on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:37

Is this whole thread for real? I've never seen a crematorium in Portugal let alone hearing of a cremation taking place.
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by sallypelt on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:38

@beijos wrote:Is this whole thread for real? I've never seen a crematorium in Portugal let alone hearing of a cremation taking place.

It's what's posted in Corrieo da Manha, so take it up with the newspaper. The meaning could be lost in translation.

Edited to add:

Southern Portugal’s only crematorium closed

in News · 02-06-2007 00:00:00 · 0 Comments

The only crematorium in Southern Portugal, in Ferreira do Alentejo, has been closed after six years of non-stop cremations so the incinerator could undergo a thorough inspection and maintenance. Meanwhile, families opting for a cremation, now face exorbitant prices, as funeral homes are now charging one euro a kilometre to take a body from the Algarve to Lisbon and beyond.



Corpses waiting for cremation have had to be put on hold with growing backlogs a common problem, especially in the Algarve.
One funeral agency in Loulé had a body in its fridge for more than 15 days, waiting for the maintenance service to be completed, though the family later decided to send the body to be cremated in Lisbon.
Excluding the cremation, the family had to pay around €250 to have the body of a loved one delivered at a crematorium in the Portuguese capital.
Suspicions have been raised due to the duration of the maintenance service, which commenced over a month ago, despite spokesperson of Portugal’s other four crematoriums (two in Lisbon, two in Oporto) claiming standard maintenance services take little more than three days.
Local authorities have guaranteed the crematorium will be up and running by June 5th.
The Ferreira do Alentejo crematorium was privately founded after a significant donation form local benefactor Mariano Faria who’s dying wish was to be cremated in his place of birth.


http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/view/910-5

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Cheshire Cat on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:44

Paulo Sargento worried Mrs Hubbard when he met with the Bishop of the Algarve. The Bishop was apparently very open and helpful.
Perhaps the information about the cremation was obtained in this way.

Apparantly in Portugal - the service is held at a church and then the actual creamtion is conducted at a facility, a seperate location from the ceremony, unlike in the UK.
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by kimHager on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 14:59

Yes I am forming a pic in my head.. Suppose it was only the fridge transported in the car. Along with possibly the tennis bag and any clean up. Supplies. I believe if they couldn't burn those items they would keep them until they could without anyone seeing it. OK so the clean up materials in blue bag stayed refrigerated until disposal hence the fluid in car. Now body was refrigerated also unknown where.. But the body in PDL of the woman for cremation probably was only viewable for a day or so then the coffin closed and sealed sent to the crematorium which could be what was mean by posts in other threads that GA knew she was cremated.so that efficiently they got rid of maddy IMO.But wounold they bury a cremated body? All my opinion of course

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by SallyVern on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 15:24

@sallypelt wrote:It's worth going over old ground once in a while.  This article, for example, may add something to the jigsaw of what happened to Madeleine McCann's body.


Portuguese priest 'ruined' by McCanns
Catholic News ^  | 12 Dec 07 | Anon

Posted on ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2007‎ ‎12‎:‎22‎:‎41 by BlackVeil

The Portugese priest who gave solace to the McCann family after the ‘disappearance’ of their daughter Madeleine has stripped his church of all traces of the girl, with friends saying the experience has left him “ruined”.

The Express reports seven months after the tragedy, Fr Jose Manuel Pacheco ordered the removal of scores of green and yellow ribbons which were put up as a symbol of hope in the days after Madeleine vanished.

Posters and photographs of Madeleine which plastered the village of Praia da Luz have also been removed.

Friends of Fr Pacheco – who came under police scrutiny after he gave the keys to his church to Gerry and Kate McCann to allow them to pray round the clock – say they fear for his health and that his life is now ruined.

Fr Pacheco was questioned twice by detectives, and the church and its grounds were searched by police.

Investigators became convinced Kate had confessed to him – but Fr Pacheco insisted he would stand by his priestly vow.

A close friend of Fr Pacheco said the priest becomes irate at the mention of the Madeleine case and that even close friends must tread carefully when broaching the subject.

“He says that it is an extremely unpleasant situation and that the McCann family only ever brought him problems. He told one friend they ruined his life,” the friend said.

“He just wants to get on with his peaceful life before the McCann whirlwind raped his world. This has all been a very bad experience for him."

Another friend described Fr Pacheco as a “nervous wreck” and that he was “hiding secrets that are destroying him.”

There has been no comment from Fr Pacheco
Thank you SallyPelt. After reading what you posted I searched the PJ Files for Father Pacheco. Interesting to read in his statement that it was John Geraghty who suggested giving the church keys to the McCanns. Looks as if he's instrumental in a couple of things then, access to the church and storing their hire car after forensics. I'm convinced now that if Madeleine's body was frozen he might be the person they'd turn to. Only in my opinion of course.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FATHER_PACHECO.htm

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Guest on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 15:26

@ Beijos
It's been mentioned, that the cremation supposedly was in Ferreira do Alentejo [the only crematorium in South Portugal] and that the elderly lady didn't have any relatives, so the coffin in the church may have been closed all the time. Also, if I understand correctly this crematorium was closed from June 2-5 for maintenance.

@ KimHager
Gerry would have needed to use a car IF he did bring a fridge or freezer to the tip. And indeed, if it had contained incriminating "material", that might have contaminated the rented Scenic.
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Praia on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 15:45

Those of us who were following events closely in 2007 will remember an enormous fuss being made over the sealed pet crematorium. The PJ confirmed the seals on it were never tampered with. But this...?
I know a couple of English residents who were cremated up north.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Cheshire Cat on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 16:09

@Praia wrote:Those of us who were following events closely in 2007 will remember an enormous fuss being made over the sealed pet crematorium. The PJ confirmed the seals on it were never tampered with. But this...?
I know a couple of English residents who were cremated up north.
 
Ferreira do Alentejo is the crematorium mentioned several times now by Luis Arriaga. Would be the logical choice because it serves the Algarve region.
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Guest on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 16:22

@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.



Not always ChippyM.    In more rural areas (in UK) the coffin is brought to the church the day/evening before the funeral, and close family are given keys to enter as they wish.

Have no idea about Portugal, but maybe ?


I was looking up crematoriums in Portugal last week, and I believe there are at least 2, Lagos and another Faro? possibly.     I was searching for the documents needed for a cremation to take place.    Quite interesting and it has to be accompanied by official paperwork as one would expect.
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by By Numbers on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 17:17

@beijos wrote:Is this whole thread for real? I've never seen a crematorium in Portugal let alone hearing of a cremation taking place.

Four mentioned in this discussion by expats:

http://www.expatsportugal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10561



ETA: Also mention of a fifth that would have opened around 2008.

Also, an interesting post at the end:

"ooooooer,sounds like the pet cremations scam, where you dont get your own pets ashes back.  id want a dna proof that they were whose they said they were. "

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Gaggzy on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 17:37

@SallyVern wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:It's worth going over old ground once in a while.  This article, for example, may add something to the jigsaw of what happened to Madeleine McCann's body.


Portuguese priest 'ruined' by McCanns
Catholic News ^  | 12 Dec 07 | Anon

Posted on ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2007‎ ‎12‎:‎22‎:‎41 by BlackVeil

The Portugese priest who gave solace to the McCann family after the ‘disappearance’ of their daughter Madeleine has stripped his church of all traces of the girl, with friends saying the experience has left him “ruined”.

The Express reports seven months after the tragedy, Fr Jose Manuel Pacheco ordered the removal of scores of green and yellow ribbons which were put up as a symbol of hope in the days after Madeleine vanished.

Posters and photographs of Madeleine which plastered the village of Praia da Luz have also been removed.

Friends of Fr Pacheco – who came under police scrutiny after he gave the keys to his church to Gerry and Kate McCann to allow them to pray round the clock – say they fear for his health and that his life is now ruined.

Fr Pacheco was questioned twice by detectives, and the church and its grounds were searched by police.

Investigators became convinced Kate had confessed to him – but Fr Pacheco insisted he would stand by his priestly vow.

A close friend of Fr Pacheco said the priest becomes irate at the mention of the Madeleine case and that even close friends must tread carefully when broaching the subject.

“He says that it is an extremely unpleasant situation and that the McCann family only ever brought him problems. He told one friend they ruined his life,” the friend said.

“He just wants to get on with his peaceful life before the McCann whirlwind raped his world. This has all been a very bad experience for him."

Another friend described Fr Pacheco as a “nervous wreck” and that he was “hiding secrets that are destroying him.”

There has been no comment from Fr Pacheco
Thank you SallyPelt. After reading what you posted I searched the PJ Files for Father Pacheco. Interesting to read in his statement that it was John Geraghty who suggested giving the church keys to the McCanns. Looks as if he's instrumental in a couple of things then, access to the church and storing their hire car after forensics. I'm convinced now that if Madeleine's body was frozen he might be the person they'd turn to. Only in my opinion of course.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FATHER_PACHECO.htm

And it would be a pretty safe bet that this Geraghty will have changed his freezer since 2007.

The little urn on the McCann's mantelpiece/shrine in their living room might contain some very interesting ashes, IMO.
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Markus 2 on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 17:38

but Fr Pacheco insisted he would stand by his priestly vow. 

But why the need to ?
Always thought right from the beginning  this was important in this case. Priests, Clergy  in some cases as we know, cannot be trusted .I think with this though he was sticking to his vow of silence, now the other  one who  with  his wife  became friendly with the Mcanns,  maybe that is a different story.


Fr Pacheco was questioned twice by detectives, and the church and its grounds were searched by police.

Investigators became convinced Kate had confessed to him – but Fr Pacheco insisted he would stand by his priestly vow. ???

Why could he just not say, I have been told nothing

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Lance De Boils on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 17:40

Can't remember where I read it now, but also the (only?) crematorium in the Algarve was suddenly closed for a month at around that time.

I'll try and find it in a minute.
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Lance De Boils on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 17:44

Southern Portugal’s only crematorium closed

02-06-2007 00:00:00

The only crematorium in Southern Portugal, in Ferreira do Alentejo, has been closed after six years of non-stop cremations so the incinerator could undergo a thorough inspection and maintenance. Meanwhile, families opting for a cremation, now face exorbitant prices, as funeral homes are now charging one euro a kilometre to take a body from the Algarve to Lisbon and beyond.

Corpses waiting for cremation have had to be put on hold with growing backlogs a common problem, especially in the Algarve.
One funeral agency in Loulé had a body in its fridge for more than 15 days, waiting for the maintenance service to be completed, though the family later decided to send the body to be cremated in Lisbon.
Excluding the cremation, the family had to pay around €250 to have the body of a loved one delivered at a crematorium in the Portuguese capital.
Suspicions have been raised due to the duration of the maintenance service, which commenced over a month ago, despite spokesperson of Portugal’s other four crematoriums (two in Lisbon, two in Oporto) claiming standard maintenance services take little more than three days.
Local authorities have guaranteed the crematorium will be up and running by June 5th.
The Ferreira do Alentejo crematorium was privately founded after a significant donation form local benefactor Mariano Faria who’s dying wish was to be cremated in his place of birth.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/view/910-5
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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Lance De Boils on Mon 16 Jun 2014 - 17:47

Southern Portugal’s only crematorium closed

02-06-2007 00:00:00

The only crematorium in Southern Portugal, in Ferreira do Alentejo, has been closed after six years of non-stop cremations so the incinerator could undergo a thorough inspection and maintenance. Meanwhile, families opting for a cremation, now face exorbitant prices, as funeral homes are now charging one euro a kilometre to take a body from the Algarve to Lisbon and beyond.

Corpses waiting for cremation have had to be put on hold with growing backlogs a common problem, especially in the Algarve.
One funeral agency in Loulé had a body in its fridge for more than 15 days, waiting for the maintenance service to be completed, though the family later decided to send the body to be cremated in Lisbon.
Excluding the cremation, the family had to pay around €250 to have the body of a loved one delivered at a crematorium in the Portuguese capital.
Suspicions have been raised due to the duration of the maintenance service, which commenced over a month ago, despite spokesperson of Portugal’s other four crematoriums (two in Lisbon, two in Oporto) claiming standard maintenance services take little more than three days.
Local authorities have guaranteed the crematorium will be up and running by June 5th.
The Ferreira do Alentejo crematorium was privately founded after a significant donation form local benefactor Mariano Faria who’s dying wish was to be cremated in his place of birth.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/view/910-5
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McCanns apt & hire car


Blood and cadaver alerts
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Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

Retired murder DCI Colin Sutton: "I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail."

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

Ex-DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the fake abduction to happen.

Despite "irrelevant behaviour" from blood and cadaver dogs in the McCann's apartment, on Kate McCann's clothes, and in the car they hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared, Ex-Chief Inspector, Ian Horrocks, said: "The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter is frankly preposterous."

Gerry McCann called for example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY News reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room. Brenda paid the price. She paid with her life.

Ex-Deputy Chief Constable, Jim Gamble QPM, congratulated SKY reporter, Martin Brunt, on twitter for doorstepping Brenda Leyland on behalf of Gerry McCann.

Prime Minister Theresa May introduces Prime Suspect Kate McCann to Royalty: The Duchess of Gloucester.

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