Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

by bobbin 22.05.14 21:58

Atomic Peanut wrote:Isn't that sort of behaviour unlawful?

What, like what happened to the main investigator in the Haut de la Garenne Jersey case, for instance !

For the record, I am mainly of the belief that the Maddie case has been so out in the open in terms of internet communication /information sharing, and I have a gut instinct that Andy Redwood is more than likely a true and determined man, I am nevertheless very cognisant of the fact that Kelly/Chilcot, Jersey HdlG and innumerable others, including all of those years of institutional covering up for Savile and his access to the HIGHEST in the land, and many beneath such, all tend to rust the steel of the badge on the policeman's helmet.

'Tarnishing' has become an image far too synonymous with today's policing, and I know of even sound police personnel, seeking to get out of the force and find another job, loading shelves in a supermarket, whatever, just to get away from internal bullying, de-selection for speaking out, life being made miserable by male colleagues against female colleagues etc.

So, no it's not all roses and there are far too many instances of exposure of foul dealing, and who knows how many others go unexposed.
I think we have to look at the inconsistencies and actions so far, and keep an open and honest eye on any blurring of 'hope value' and "acquired cynicism".

by endgame 22.05.14 22:02

Newintown wrote:
bobbin wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:
lj wrote:
Yep and that's a whitewash.
And how precisely did Det Redwood communicate to the members of his team that they were going to spend 3 years conducting a whitewash and persuade them all to go along with it?

Email? - certainly not (easily forwarded to the world)
Text? - ditto
Letter? - no, there would be written evidence
Phone call? - no, could have been recorded
Spoken instructions to all the investigating team in a meeting room? - no, this sort of thing would have to be done on a one-to-one basis
Secret meeting with each individual officer in a locked room? - no guarantee that his colleague would agree to it

How was it done then?

There would have been a lot of prospective officers lined up to be interviewed for the job.
The ones that got through to the final selected team would be the ones with the 'right' profile.

In other words you mean they would be asked to lie through their teeth and cover up the death/accidental death/disappearance of Madeleine McCann and find the parents as being not involved despite their and their Tapas friends giving contradictory statements and Eddie and Keela were very much mistaken. Yeah, right and pigs may fly.

I think you're oversimplifying the way in which organisational cultures work. They are very powerful and do not require explicit instructions for people to understand that this is the way we are going to work on this. As Newintown suggests, you would obviously start by handpicking the right people for the job, the ones with the right attitude. As I said in a previous post, can anyone direct me to one police whistleblower over the last thirty years? It doesn't happen.

by plebgate 22.05.14 22:05

stillsloppingout wrote:
plebgate wrote:
tiny wrote:"I want to be able to go back to Kate and Gerry at some stage in the future and tell them we've got to the bottom of this, or second best is to go back to them and say we've turned over every stone and we can't get to an answer sometimes."

ffs I want you to go back to the McCann and tell them you want them to do the reconstruction. MADELEINE MUST COME FIRST. Sod kate and Gerry.
Well said Tiny, very well said. How can SY possibly close the investigation without having interviewed the lot of them and done a reconstruction.

I fear Tony is right when he stated earlier that an Englishman's word (PC brigade - British person's) word is no longer their bond. So sad, as I believe that most families would like to believe that Britain could be great again. Too many in it for themselves politicians and government officals for this to happen though. Very, very sad.
When this case is shelved and the SY conclusion , is revealed . unknown nonce etc . Then questions will be asked how can SY be sure [ and what are there grounds ] for the exclusion as suspects of the parents . and why were they all not re interviewed even [ playing devils advocate ] to see if they could shed new light on the case themselves . the fact that they have not been called is baffling , either way . surly they all want to help the investigation ?

Yes, I think questions will be asked and many, many, FOI requests sent.

by SixMillionQuid 22.05.14 22:06

Atomic Peanut wrote:
lj wrote:
Yep and that's a whitewash.
And how precisely did Det Redwood communicate to the members of his team that they were going to spend 3 years conducting a whitewash and persuade them all to go along with it?

Email? - certainly not (easily forwarded to the world)
Text? - ditto
Letter? - no, there would be written evidence
Phone call? - no, could have been recorded
Spoken instructions to all the investigating team in a meeting room? - no, this sort of thing would have to be done on a one-to-one basis
Secret meeting with each individual officer in a locked room? - no guarantee that his colleague would agree to it

How was it done then?

By instructing them to look everywhere except at what is in front their eyes. I'm sure he would have briefed them about what remit of the review is, what can be said what cant be said - I think we're all aware of what happens when you cross all seeing all hearing mafia. Anyone that doesn't agree can go through the exit.

And these days if you disclose confidential data without permission you are going to jail. Is it worth the risk to start blabbing.

by Ghengis 22.05.14 22:06

Cannot see how we needed a separate thread for this, it is just a continuation of the search thread. Would've been good to keep everything in the same place.

by Newintown 22.05.14 22:08

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
Newintown wrote:
bobbin wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:
lj wrote:
Yep and that's a whitewash.
And how precisely did Det Redwood communicate to the members of his team that they were going to spend 3 years conducting a whitewash and persuade them all to go along with it?

Email? - certainly not (easily forwarded to the world)
Text? - ditto
Letter? - no, there would be written evidence
Phone call? - no, could have been recorded
Spoken instructions to all the investigating team in a meeting room? - no, this sort of thing would have to be done on a one-to-one basis
Secret meeting with each individual officer in a locked room? - no guarantee that his colleague would agree to it

How was it done then?

There would have been a lot of prospective officers lined up to be interviewed for the job.
The ones that got through to the final selected team would be the ones with the 'right' profile.

In other words you mean they would be asked to lie through their teeth and cover up the death/accidental death/disappearance of Madeleine McCann and find the parents as being not involved despite their and their Tapas friends giving contradictory statements and Eddie and Keela were very much mistaken. Yeah, right and pigs may fly.
Redwood was specifically instructed by those much higher to look at every scenario apart from the parents or their friends being involved. So he basically can come up with any solution apart from the one with the most circumstantial evidence.

Are you a politician by any chance? You haven't actually answered my post.

by SixMillionQuid 22.05.14 22:17

Newintown wrote:
Hongkong Phooey wrote:
Newintown wrote:
bobbin wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:
lj wrote:
Yep and that's a whitewash.
And how precisely did Det Redwood communicate to the members of his team that they were going to spend 3 years conducting a whitewash and persuade them all to go along with it?

Email? - certainly not (easily forwarded to the world)
Text? - ditto
Letter? - no, there would be written evidence
Phone call? - no, could have been recorded
Spoken instructions to all the investigating team in a meeting room? - no, this sort of thing would have to be done on a one-to-one basis
Secret meeting with each individual officer in a locked room? - no guarantee that his colleague would agree to it

How was it done then?

There would have been a lot of prospective officers lined up to be interviewed for the job.
The ones that got through to the final selected team would be the ones with the 'right' profile.

In other words you mean they would be asked to lie through their teeth and cover up the death/accidental death/disappearance of Madeleine McCann and find the parents as being not involved despite their and their Tapas friends giving contradictory statements and Eddie and Keela were very much mistaken. Yeah, right and pigs may fly.
Redwood was specifically instructed by those much higher to look at every scenario apart from the parents or their friends being involved. So he basically can come up with any solution apart from the one with the most circumstantial evidence.

Are you a politician by any chance? You haven't actually answered my post.

When Mr Redwood said to the public the T9 are of no interest do you believe he was telling the truth? If you believe he was telling a lie then he's openly lied to the public.

by russiandoll 22.05.14 22:23

HongKong Phooey " Redwood was specifically instructed by those much higher to look at every scenario apart from the parents or their friends being involved. So he basically can come up with any solution apart from the one with the most circumstantial evidence. "

Why state your opinion as if it were a fact?

And to Six Million Quid.... Redwood said that months ago and as a response to a question. He has not repeated that since, nor has there been any word from Grange that internet speculation might as well cease because the parents and/or friends are not in the frame. He might well have been telling the truth as it stood months ago, the investigation has moved on, maybe they are in the frame now.
Do you think that Redwood could have answered yes to that question, without the balloon going up? Kate's book of truth and the amount given in donations... the McCanns would have been in danger of being harmed...and there were and are their twins to consider.

by Hongkong Phooey 22.05.14 22:24

Newintown wrote:
Hongkong Phooey wrote:
Newintown wrote:
bobbin wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:
lj wrote:
Yep and that's a whitewash.
And how precisely did Det Redwood communicate to the members of his team that they were going to spend 3 years conducting a whitewash and persuade them all to go along with it?

Email? - certainly not (easily forwarded to the world)
Text? - ditto
Letter? - no, there would be written evidence
Phone call? - no, could have been recorded
Spoken instructions to all the investigating team in a meeting room? - no, this sort of thing would have to be done on a one-to-one basis
Secret meeting with each individual officer in a locked room? - no guarantee that his colleague would agree to it

How was it done then?

There would have been a lot of prospective officers lined up to be interviewed for the job.
The ones that got through to the final selected team would be the ones with the 'right' profile.

In other words you mean they would be asked to lie through their teeth and cover up the death/accidental death/disappearance of Madeleine McCann and find the parents as being not involved despite their and their Tapas friends giving contradictory statements and Eddie and Keela were very much mistaken. Yeah, right and pigs may fly.
Redwood was specifically instructed by those much higher to look at every scenario apart from the parents or their friends being involved. So he basically can come up with any solution apart from the one with the most circumstantial evidence.

Are you a politician by any chance? You haven't actually answered my post.

Moi? And yes you are correct I'm a polish tishin from the monster raving lunatic party, or at least this case (which I've followed through several forums over the seven years) drives you to lunacy. The OG personnel have been given a remit, you don't go against your superiors and start your own investigation on something you were told to stay away from.

by russiandoll 22.05.14 22:29

HKP , why are you stating as a fact that Grange were told to look at everyone except the Mcs and their holiday companions ? It is just your opinion.

by Hongkong Phooey 22.05.14 22:30

russiandoll wrote:HongKong Phooey " Redwood was specifically instructed by those much higher to look at every scenario apart from the parents or their friends being involved. So he basically can come up with any solution apart from the one with the most circumstantial evidence. "

Why state your opinion as if it were a fact?

And to Six Million Quid.... Redwood said that months ago and as a response to a question. He has not repeated that since, nor has there been any word from Grange that internet speculation might as well cease because the parents and/or friends are not in the frame. He might well have been telling the truth as it stood months ago, the investigation has moved on, maybe they are in the frame now.
Do you think that Redwood could have answered yes to that question, without the balloon going up? Kate's book of truth and the amount given in donations... the McCanns would have been in danger of being harmed...and there were and are their twins to consider.

You are correct I should have added IMO, however are you denying that Redwood has stated that the remit of OG is to look at all possible areas that don't involve the parents? (maybe not in those exact words)

by Hongkong Phooey 22.05.14 22:34

russiandoll wrote:HKP , why are you stating as a fact that Grange were told to look at everyone except the Mcs and their holiday companions ? It is just your opinion.

He stated on Crimewatch that the investigation was being conducted by taking everything back to zero however they would not be looking towards the parents or any involvement of their friends (again not exact words).

by noddy100 22.05.14 22:37

Maybe the whole investigation has been set up to investigate the 'abduction' only
No other to be investigated and perhaps the officers have been told that they are not involved
And they are not going down that road

by russiandoll 22.05.14 22:37

HKP I heard taking it back to zero, but iirc there was no mention of the parents on CW, to the best of my knowledge Redwood made this statement only once when he was put on the spot by a journalist and said that none of the tapas crew were suspects or persons or interest.
Of course I stand to be corrected.

by phil_burton 22.05.14 22:39

If you doubt the ability or volition of the esteemed British Police to pervert the course of justice, just take a look at the Hillsborough case.

They managed to completely bury (no pun intended) any possibility of police wrong doing for nigh on 15 years. And that was with hundreds of witnesses, hundreds of testimonies, involving dozens of police officers, from multiple forces.

Protecting 2 doctors from Rothley would be a doddle. The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed, and the Met know they can make the British media dance to their tune - all we're hearing is what they want you to hear.

The only thing that will change the course of this whitewash is new, credible, irrefutable evidence that will, through public pressure, force the PJ and the Met to work together.

What we're seeing right now, and for the past 3 years is a FARCE.

by Guest 22.05.14 22:44

phil_burton wrote:If you doubt the ability or volition of the esteemed British Police to pervert the course of justice, just take a look at the Hillsborough case.

They managed to completely bury (no pun intended) any possibility of police wrong doing for nigh on 15 years. And that was with hundreds of witnesses, hundreds of testimonies, involving dozens of police officers, from multiple forces.

Protecting 2 doctors from Rothley would be a doddle. The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed, and the Met know they can make the British media dance to their tune - all we're hearing is what they want you to hear.

The only thing that will change the course of this whitewash is new, credible, irrefutable evidence that will, through public pressure, force the PJ and the Met to work together.

What we're seeing right now, and for the past 3 years is a FARCE.

***
My "pink" above in your comment.
What makes you think the case is closed ... ????

by phil_burton 22.05.14 22:47

Châtelaine wrote:
phil_burton wrote:If you doubt the ability or volition of the esteemed British Police to pervert the course of justice, just take a look at the Hillsborough case.

They managed to completely bury (no pun intended) any possibility of police wrong doing for nigh on 15 years. And that was with hundreds of witnesses, hundreds of testimonies, involving dozens of police officers, from multiple forces.

Protecting 2 doctors from Rothley would be a doddle. The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed, and the Met know they can make the British media dance to their tune - all we're hearing is what they want you to hear.

The only thing that will change the course of this whitewash is new, credible, irrefutable evidence that will, through public pressure, force the PJ and the Met to work together.

What we're seeing right now, and for the past 3 years is a FARCE.
***
My "pink" above in your comment.
What makes you think the case is closed ... ????

Let me turn that question round on you big grin

What makes you think it's open?

by russiandoll 22.05.14 22:48

Phil B " The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed,"

When did it close? Last I heard it was open in 2 countries.

by Guest 22.05.14 22:48

I have no time for funny questions.
It is above question that the PJ have reopened the investigation.
Good night.

by phil_burton 22.05.14 22:51

russiandoll wrote:Phil B " The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed,"

When did it close? Last I heard it was open in 2 countries.

If it's open with the PJ, why aren't the PJ demanding that K+G and the T7 are flown back for further questioning/reconstructions?

Apologies - I'm not trying to stir things up, and I'm not as au fait with this case as you guys, but I dont see any reason to believe the case is actually open and the answers to what happened to MM are being sought.

I see lots of media fluff (which I see a lot of working in marketing!), but nothing real, nothing tangible.

by 1soapy 22.05.14 22:51

And as so many on here offer so many inferences and interpretations of what, e.g. the police, have said, then why does 6mq argue that such an ambiguous statement has only one interpretation and is therefore a lie and therefore he is a known public liar and should be hung? (May not be quoting EXACTLY there!!!) You may be right, but ARE could mean,exactly that. Not at this time (but it is on the agenda later, or not). Of no interest could also mean that they, as in their statements, are all we need. They tell us what we need. We think they clearly tell us x or y and so we have nothing to ask them now, but we will be arresting them in due course/letting them go because they are innocent, interviewing them at stage 34 when we are now at stage 23. Or being nice or lying (under certain circumstances) or sending a certain message out could be the reason. Aren't there precedents for any/all of these?

I do find the MET remit (abduction) and, 'as if it happened on British soil) and for the parents very odd. Is there any other examples of such odd remits on anything that one would expect a much more Occamized version. If anything, I understand cases have been lost on the basis of a too complicated charge or a date was wrong.

by Hongkong Phooey 22.05.14 22:54

russiandoll wrote:HKP I heard taking it back to zero, but iirc there was no mention of the parents on CW, to the best of my knowledge Redwood made this statement only once when he was put on the spot by a journalist and said that none of the tapas crew were suspects or persons or interest.
Of course I stand to be corrected.

You may be right and I would have to sit through the torture of watching that tosh again to find out the correct information and that ain't gonna happen in a hurry!

by Guest 22.05.14 23:01

phil_burton wrote:
russiandoll wrote:Phil B " The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed,"

When did it close? Last I heard it was open in 2 countries.

If it's open with the PJ, why aren't the PJ demanding that K+G and the T7 are flown back for further questioning/reconstructions?

Apologies - I'm not trying to stir things up, and I'm not as au fait with this case as you guys, but I dont see any reason to believe the case is actually open and the answers to what happened to MM are being sought.

I see lots of media fluff (which I see a lot of working in marketing!), but nothing real, nothing tangible.

The case was never closed, it was shelved, pending any new evidence coming to light. It has now been un-shelved so to speak and a team are investigating.

by phil_burton 22.05.14 23:12

candyfloss wrote:
phil_burton wrote:
russiandoll wrote:Phil B " The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed,"

When did it close? Last I heard it was open in 2 countries.

If it's open with the PJ, why aren't the PJ demanding that K+G and the T7 are flown back for further questioning/reconstructions?

Apologies - I'm not trying to stir things up, and I'm not as au fait with this case as you guys, but I dont see any reason to believe the case is actually open and the answers to what happened to MM are being sought.

I see lots of media fluff (which I see a lot of working in marketing!), but nothing real, nothing tangible.

The case was never closed, it was shelved, pending any new evidence coming to light. It has now been un-shelved so to speak and a team are investigating.

Ahhh, "shelved".

A fluffy term for "closed" which makes it seem like it isn't really closed.

So, would you agree it's not technicall OPEN, but in a state of inactivity. A bit like a dormant volcano?

by Guest 22.05.14 23:17

phil_burton wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
phil_burton wrote:
russiandoll wrote:Phil B " The PJ can't do a thing now that the case is closed,"

When did it close? Last I heard it was open in 2 countries.

If it's open with the PJ, why aren't the PJ demanding that K+G and the T7 are flown back for further questioning/reconstructions?

Apologies - I'm not trying to stir things up, and I'm not as au fait with this case as you guys, but I dont see any reason to believe the case is actually open and the answers to what happened to MM are being sought.

I see lots of media fluff (which I see a lot of working in marketing!), but nothing real, nothing tangible.

The case was never closed, it was shelved, pending any new evidence coming to light. It has now been un-shelved so to speak and a team are investigating.

Ahhh, "shelved".

A fluffy term for "closed" which makes it seem like it isn't really closed.

So, would you agree it's not technicall OPEN, but in a state of inactivity. A bit like a dormant volcano?

***
Cannot you READ?
It was SHELVED and some time ago it was REOPENED, and I guess for good reasons.
Good night again.

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