Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

by NickE 07.11.13 21:51

Is there any secure information were GM was between 9:45pm-10:15pm,May 3?

by thetruthbeknown 07.11.13 21:55

I dont think I adhere to a 'previous' date theory. Possibly between 5.30-8 if at an earlier time at all. I think an element of a 'rolling ball' that cant be stopped springs to mind when I read between the lines of all the theories on here. You know how you start a lie then you cant stop, someone backs you into a corner, you say the first thing that comes into your head to explain a situation, then one lie follows another..no way out. I wouldnt dream of doing my own theory, I just havent learned enough yet. but I do appreciate the outstanding knowledge on here, its certainly a case that has lots of avenues yes

by roy rovers 07.11.13 22:07

Châtelaine wrote:
Pennypennypenny wrote:It's mind boggling to see old sky news clips and read the link in the daily mail when the media were convinced TM were involved in the disappearance of their daughter. What changed?
***
Carter Ruck?

Superinjunction?

by **PeterMac** 07.11.13 22:20

ProfessorPPlum wrote:
worriedmum wrote:"There are records for that, written records, and witnesses," said a friend.
"Madeleine was there while Kate and Gerry played tennis with the tennis professional and other witnesses.
"Madeleine had high tea at 5.30pm with staff at the Kids Club. She was picked up shortly before 6pm by Kate and Gerry.
"After that Kate and Gerry went home, got the kids ready for bed and got ready to go out for their meal."
PARDON?
What about Gerry's tennis game and David Payne's visit? Have I read this incorrectly?
No you havent!
The question that strikes me is "Where did Gerry's tennis game and David Payne's 30 sec / 30 min visit subsequently come from?!".

And where did the jog along the beach come from,
and seeing all the "witnesses" in the Paraiso come from
and the signing out of Madeleine by Kate at 5:30 come from
and the returning from the run to find Gerry with the children already having Tea in the tapas bar at exactly 5:30 come from
And Madeleine being totally exhausted so that she had to be carried home, even though at 13:29 or 14:29 she was obviously fine, come from
And why did the other Tapas bloke explain in great and forceful detail that his wife / partner was WRONG WRONG WRONG when she said that Madeleine had been there on 3rd.

They cannot remember what they said !
They didn't rehearse.
So a Pact of Silence was the best way out.

by Truthandjustice 07.11.13 22:30

How long do super injunctions last for?

by J4MM 07.11.13 22:41

roy rovers wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
Pennypennypenny wrote:It's mind boggling to see old sky news clips and read the link in the daily mail when the media were convinced TM were involved in the disappearance of their daughter. What changed?
***
Carter Ruck?
Superinjunction?

Something changed. An ex-colleague's husband, who was a freelance photographer at the time, said from day one that the MSM thought the parents were involved. Something or someone must be restricting their 'freedom of speech'.

by ProfessorPPlum 07.11.13 23:11

Pat Brown's (otherwise excellent) post still doesn't satisfactorily explain why KM would tell us something that ADDS to our impression of their recklessness:

"Mummy why didn't you come when Sean and me were crying last night?"

Remember, the McCanns are the only source of this alleged statement on the morning of the 3rd. Is it *just* a ploy to make us believe that an abductor was doing a recce inside the apartment on the night of 2/3rd? If that was the purpose, wouldn't you make Madeleine say "Mummy, who was that strange swarthy man who came with the needles last night and scared me and Sean?"

If the McCanns are victims of a real abduction and this statement was true, it would be said in this context: "Oh, God. We're SO totally to blame. She told us they'd woken up scared and we STILL went out the next night. How can we ever live with ourselves knowing we could have saved her....."

If they're not victims of a real abduction but perpetrators of a staged abduction, and since telling us about the 'crying' statement (real or made up) automatically makes them look far more guilty of neglect and given that they could easily NOT have said it and saved themselves looking worse... the question stands out WHY?

If saying it can do nothing BUT make them look bad (whether there was an abduction or there wasn't and whether they made it up or they didn't) then there has to be a concealed reason for saying it that brings a hidden pay off that is greater than the negative impression it gives.

What can that be other than:

• to persuade us that Madeleine was alive on the morning of the 3rd?
• to call on later to lend weight to an assertion that someone was making a 'dry run' the night before doing the abduction?
• er....?

Or can it just be "Here, I give you something to hate me for that did happen (albeit on an earlier night according to Mrs. Fenn) to divert you from something worse that happened that I don't want you to focus your attention on" ?

In which case, why not just tell the world that on the morning of the 2nd, Madeleine said "Mummy, why didn't you come when me and Sean were crying for 75 minutes?"

Every way I look at this, I can't get away from the idea of the trade: I'll trade you this admission of neglect for that belief in my child being alive on the 3rd.

I HATE to think this way; I want it to be as simple as Pat Brown makes out...but this 'crying' statement just will not fit the gap in the puzzle. Damn!

by thetruthbeknown 07.11.13 23:23

It could also be a way of saying 'I dont sedate my children so that I can go and enjoy myself' What better proof then telling us about how they had awoken the previous night?

by Guest 07.11.13 23:41

It keeps coming back to me ... Gerry: "We almost thought of not going to Tapas". You almost DO something [you think about it, but then you don't do it], but how on earth can one almost THINK something? And remember the way Gerry said that. Interrupting [as often is the case] Kate. And trying to put on his most sincere face. Failure, because IMO he doesn't have one. I'll see if I can find the video ...

by chillyheat 07.11.13 23:48

Châtelaine wrote:It keeps coming back to me ... Gerry: "We almost thought of not going to Tapas". You almost DO something [you think about it, but then you don't do it], but how on earth can one almost THINK something? And remember the way Gerry said that. Interrupting [as often is the case] Kate. And trying to put on his most sincere face. Failure, because IMO he doesn't have one. I'll see if I can find the video ...

From Jeremy Wilkins statement....Another strange saying :
He said 'you're on walking duty'. I said (JW) I was staying in and the pro's and con's and what to do with the children. He said that if he was staying two (2) weeks, he may stay in one night.

by noddy100 07.11.13 23:51

I don't think Kate acknowlegdd the crying incident until it was 'out there' via Mrs Fenn

by Guest 07.11.13 23:53

Coming back to my previous comment. Obviously, the video has been wooshed ...
However, there's a transcript of mccannfiles:

"Transcript by Nigel Moore
Documentary broadcast: 30 April 2008
Kate McCann: We obviously told the police because we thought 'does this indicate that someone's been round the night before?' and that's what's woken her up; which is significant, you know... you know, I've... you know, I've persecuted myself over and over again about that statement because you think 'Why didn't I, kind of, just hold her and say 'What d'you mean? What d'you mean?,' you know, 'What d'you mean you woke up?,' you know, and, kind of... but, you don't think that. I mean, it's easy saying that after what's happened...
Gerry McCann: I think the worst thing is, we, kind of, almost thought about not going and, errm... and did. We weren't sure we were going to get into the Tapas, (to Kate) remember? And, errm...
Kate McCann: In fact, we were all...
Gerry McCann: But, you know..."

by ProfessorPPlum 08.11.13 6:45

Thank you Chatelaine

by **PeterMac** 08.11.13 7:49

Châtelaine wrote:
Gerry McCann: I think the worst thing is, we, kind of, almost thought about not going and, errm... and did. We weren't sure we were going to get into the Tapas, (to Kate) remember? And, errm...
Kate McCann: In fact, we were all...
Gerry McCann: But, you know..."[/i]

And, errmmm I have just realised that everyone in the world will be able to tell that that was a lie, because we have told everyone we had a block booking for the entire week. Sorry !

But you know, Gerry has just told an enormous lie, and we are now going to gibber a bit to stop you asking a supplementary question .

by **tigger** 08.11.13 8:20

PeterMac wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
Gerry McCann: I think the worst thing is, we, kind of, almost thought about not going and, errm... and did. We weren't sure we were going to get into the Tapas, (to Kate) remember? And, errm...
Kate McCann: In fact, we were all...
Gerry McCann: But, you know..."[/i]
And, errmmm I have just realised that everyone in the world will be able to tell that that was a lie, because we have told everyone we had a block booking for the entire week. Sorry !

But you know, Gerry has just told an enormous lie, and we are now going to gibber a bit to stop you asking a supplementary question .

I think this is an adapted lie from their earlier statement that they weren't sure they'd get in to the Tapas that evening.
This may have been pointed out to them by Pinky.
Couldn't get in - no block booking - but 'fate' having worked against them by having space in the Tapas.
Had to be amended, the block booking was firmly in place, next best thing a voluntary decision to go or not, making it part of the Victorian melodrama. If only..... Wrings hands, weeps, but 'they' (MW) made us think it was safe!
Heroine collapses on floor, curtain down...

by Liz Eagles 08.11.13 8:22

PeterMac wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
Gerry McCann: I think the worst thing is, we, kind of, almost thought about not going and, errm... and did. We weren't sure we were going to get into the Tapas, (to Kate) remember? And, errm...
Kate McCann: In fact, we were all...
Gerry McCann: But, you know..."[/i]
And, errmmm I have just realised that everyone in the world will be able to tell that that was a lie, because we have told everyone we had a block booking for the entire week. Sorry !

But you know, Gerry has just told an enormous lie, and we are now going to gibber a bit to stop you asking a supplementary question .

Gerry the Gibberer in full flow.

Just out of interest how can one 'almost' think?

by **PeterMac** 08.11.13 8:31

aquila wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
Gerry McCann: I think the worst thing is, we, kind of, almost thought about not going and, errm... and did. We weren't sure we were going to get into the Tapas, (to Kate) remember? And, errm...
Kate McCann: In fact, we were all...
Gerry McCann: But, you know..."[/i]
And, errmmm I have just realised that everyone in the world will be able to tell that that was a lie, because we have told everyone we had a block booking for the entire week. Sorry !
But you know, Gerry has just told an enormous lie, and we are now going to gibber a bit to stop you asking a supplementary question .
Gerry the Gibberer in full flow.
Just out of interest how can one 'almost' think?

And did they then discuss almost not going with the other Tapasniks, or would they simply have not showed up. Which would then have caused at least one to visit the apartment to see if they were OK ~~or had fallen down the stairs ,~~.
Or was the thought of almost not being there the consideration which tipped the balance of almost going to the block booking.
And the block booking thing is also the McFact which allows the booking book to be on display for passing abductors to read, upside down in an unspecified language in the reception area.

I already have a headache !

by sami 08.11.13 8:35

He says "we" almost thought about not going. That suggests to me they discussed it. Had he said I , it could be a personal thought perhaps.

by Liz Eagles 08.11.13 8:47

PeterMac wrote:
aquila wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
Gerry McCann: I think the worst thing is, we, kind of, almost thought about not going and, errm... and did. We weren't sure we were going to get into the Tapas, (to Kate) remember? And, errm...
Kate McCann: In fact, we were all...
Gerry McCann: But, you know..."[/i]
And, errmmm I have just realised that everyone in the world will be able to tell that that was a lie, because we have told everyone we had a block booking for the entire week. Sorry !
But you know, Gerry has just told an enormous lie, and we are now going to gibber a bit to stop you asking a supplementary question .
Gerry the Gibberer in full flow.
Just out of interest how can one 'almost' think?
And did they then discuss almost not going with the other Tapasniks, or would they simply have not showed up. Which would then have caused at least one to visit the apartment to see if they were OK ~~or had fallen down the stairs ,~~.
Or was the thought of almost not being there the consideration which tipped the balance of almost going to the block booking.
And the block booking thing is also the McFact which allows the booking book to be on display for passing abductors to read, upside down in an unspecified language in the reception area.

I already have a headache !

Take a McAnadin for it and if things are still sticking in your gut I think there's a Pink, thick substance (McPepto-Abysmal) that may do just the trick. If that doesn't work then lobotomy is the only option I'm afraid. laughat

by GRACEFUL1 08.11.13 8:57

Hilarious Aquila great start to the morning! big grin

by jeanmonroe 08.11.13 11:14

Gerry McCann: I think the worst thing is, we, kind of, almost thought about not going and, errm... and did. We weren't sure we were going to get into the Tapas, (to Kate) remember? And, errm...
Kate McCann: In fact, we were ALL..
.......................................................

Kate McCann: ...we were ALL going to go up to the Millennium again, that was... with the kids, which is what we did the first night. It was just, errm... it was just 'cause the walk was so long and we didn't have a buggy and the kids were tired by that time and I thought... we... we were... we did talk about going up to the Millennium that night.

So, i presume by ALL she means the entire T9 group. Not just Gerry and her.

Yet nowhere, but nowhere, have ANY of the T7 said anywhere that THEY were going to go up to the Millennium THAT night or even talked about going there. AFAIK.

Watch Gerry as he speaks , ear touching, covering mouth with hand, gulping, etc.

by ultimaThule 08.11.13 13:31

MW guests who wished to eat at the Tapas in the evening were required to book each day because, unlike the Millenium, it was a small establishment with a limited number of covers.

The fact the McCanns and their pals were able to insist on overriding this rule and make a block booking for the entire week gives some indication of the entitlement the group as a whole exhibited, having no thought whatsoever for the other families with young children who were also accomodated close to this bar/restaurant.

I seem to recall reading something to the effect that this selfishness had been noted by some of those who weren't able to get a booking due to the group having, effectively, commandeered the Tapas restaurant night after night - if I'd been one of those deprived guests I'd have kicked off big-time.

It's my belief that after the group's first night they had no intention of having any more evening meals at the Millenium but that, earlier in the week, they had planned to spend Thursday night sans their offspring dining in one of the town's restaurants and this plan had go by the board in order to act out the pantomime which took place at the Tapas on the night of 3 May 2007.

Fwiw, even if buggies were available to rent in the resort and had been pre-booked to be available on arrival, what parent would contemplate juggling 3 small children plus cases/hand luggage and hanging around an airport for a couple of hours with no guarantee the flight would leave on time without these essential items?

Not to mention the small question of their having given the route they wheeled their carriages to the beach which is noted in one of the documents available at mccannfiles.com

There are lies, more lies, and damned lies; the McCanns have proved themselves to have a propensity for telling every kind of lie in their attempt to hide the truth.

by Guest 08.11.13 14:51

Fwiw, even if buggies were available to rent in the resort and had been pre-booked to be available on arrival, what parent would contemplate juggling 3 small children plus cases/hand luggage and hanging around an airport for a couple of hours with no guarantee the flight would leave on time without these essential items?

Is it known by what means they travelled to Luz from the airport? Private transfer/taxi?

by **PeterMac** 08.11.13 16:00

by Liz Eagles 08.11.13 16:03

PeterMac wrote:

The one on the far right has an earring.

WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1