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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by ultimaThule 03.11.13 2:32

@Carver wrote:
@notlongnow wrote:
@Carver wrote:
@Sietah wrote:
@Carver wrote:
 This makes them more than entitled to choose what lead they want to spend the money on.
Does this include their mortgage and libeltrials?
I'm only interested in what happened to Madeleine that night.
What do you think happened that night carver?
Irresponsible parents left their daughter sleeping unsupervised a room in a strange country and an abductor took full advantage of it. Probably a paedophile or group of.
"I'm only interested in what happened to Madeleine that night" 

As are we all, Carver, and some of us are interested in what happened to that little girl in the days/weeks/months before the night of Thursday 3 May 2007. 

However, going with your theory, why would an abductor choose a verbal 3 year old over a non-verbal 2 year old female? 

If a group of paedophiles were involved why did they not take both of the female children or, indeed, all 3 of the children who were alone in the apartment that night while their parents enjoyed themselves elsewhere?
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Post by lj 03.11.13 3:48

candyfloss wrote:Carver, from the Sunday Times report...
 
 

Their report, seen by The Sunday Times, focused on a sighting by an Irish family of a man carrying a child at about 10pm on May 3, 2007, when Madeleine went missing.
 
An earlier sighting by one of the McCanns’ friends was dismissed as less credible after “serious inconsistencies” were found in her evidence. The report also raised questions about “anomalies” in the statements given by the McCanns and their friends.
 
 
 
 
So they were told the Smithman sighting was more important, yet they chose not to issue the e-fits or have them on their website or KM's book.  It would have cost nothing, and may have generated lots of information.
It's funny that the "big" talk is about sightings, while the REAL reason the McCanns could not scramble hard and fast enough to bury the report the deepest possible is all the rest in the report. Especially the parts that were so critical of the parents, that pointed out the “serious inconsistencies” (translate: lies). It also mentioned Madeleine sleepproblems. This is not only important because she could easily have gotten in an accident while sleepwalking, but it shows how neglectful -how was it phrased again in the case of the other Leicester woman: ah "child cruelty"- and how cruel the actions of these pathetic parents are.

Kate is worried what the twins will read? Believe me compared to what she writes in her book, and what has come out over this report, anything we write here pales.

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Post by ProfessorPPlum 03.11.13 9:19

Carver, please list the evidence that supports Madeleine having been abducted by a group of paedophiles

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Post by uppatoffee 03.11.13 9:23

Or perhaps just any evidence she was abducted.
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Post by ProfessorPPlum 03.11.13 9:45

Unfortunately Carver you've demonstrated all the classical signs of 'trolling' meaning that while I'd like to debate this subject with you, I won't any longer because its pointless. Your primary purpose appears to be to waste people's time. There's no problem with pro-abduction people to come here genuinely wanting to debate the issue but the basic norms of logical argument do need to apply. You're entitled to think it was a strange abduction but expect to be asked to explain why you think this was the case. If you think that 'some suspicious people were seen / some burglaries happened / some charity collectors were in PDL / Kate and Gerry said so' adds up to a strong evidence base for your assertion then you are wrong. 

You've been asked several times to back up your view and you are not willing / able to do it, preferring instead to respond with diversionary questions. 

Finally if you think that 'suspicious people / burglaries / charity collectors / McCanns say-so' is equal to indications from 100% reliable dogs, inconsistencies and ever-changing 'cover up' stories from the T9 well you are very very wrong which I think I'd be safe in assuming you're not a policeman or detective by profession.

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Post by SchrodingersBody 03.11.13 9:47

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Carver, please list the evidence that supports Madeleine having been abducted by a group of paedophiles
Is this the point where carver exits stage left ??
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Post by Dr What 03.11.13 9:47

If Maddie had difficulty settling and sleeping at night, that might explain why the Mcs did not take a baby monitor with them.It would have been going off all the time, and disrupting their 'so into each other' time at the bar and restaurant.

I believe they had calpol with them.Perhaps they decided that calpol would be a better investment than a baby monitor to ensure a peaceful evening[s] out.
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Post by Hongkong Phooey 03.11.13 10:15

@Dr What wrote:If Maddie had difficulty settling and sleeping at night, that might explain why the Mcs did not take a baby monitor with them.It would have been going off all the time, and disrupting their 'so into each other' time at the bar and restaurant.

I believe they had calpol with them.Perhaps they decided that calpol would be a better investment than a baby monitor to ensure a peaceful evening[s] out.
How many spoonfuls of calpol would it take (given to a year old) to ensure a peaceful night?
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Post by Hicks 03.11.13 10:26

@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Dr What wrote:If Maddie had difficulty settling and sleeping at night, that might explain why the Mcs did not take a baby monitor with them.It would have been going off all the time, and disrupting their 'so into each other' time at the bar and restaurant.

I believe they had calpol with them.Perhaps they decided that calpol would be a better investment than a baby monitor to ensure a peaceful evening[s] out.
How many spoonfuls of calpol would it take (given to a  year old) to ensure a peaceful night?
Calpol is not a sedative. It is a myth that is causes drowsiness.

There were reports from a French newspaper that Madeleine had overdosed on sleeping tablets. This newspaper claims to have seen documentation supporting this.
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Post by sami 03.11.13 10:27

@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Dr What wrote:If Maddie had difficulty settling and sleeping at night, that might explain why the Mcs did not take a baby monitor with them.It would have been going off all the time, and disrupting their 'so into each other' time at the bar and restaurant.

I believe they had calpol with them.Perhaps they decided that calpol would be a better investment than a baby monitor to ensure a peaceful evening[s] out.
How many spoonfuls of calpol would it take (given to a  year old) to ensure a peaceful night?
My experience of calpol is that it will not induce sleep, merely facilitate sleep by providing pain relief to a sick child.

Lots of discussions already on the topic.
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Post by Guest 03.11.13 10:42

@sami wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Dr What wrote:If Maddie had difficulty settling and sleeping at night, that might explain why the Mcs did not take a baby monitor with them.It would have been going off all the time, and disrupting their 'so into each other' time at the bar and restaurant.

I believe they had calpol with them.Perhaps they decided that calpol would be a better investment than a baby monitor to ensure a peaceful evening[s] out.
How many spoonfuls of calpol would it take (given to a  year old) to ensure a peaceful night?
My experience of calpol is that it will not induce sleep, merely facilitate sleep by providing pain relief to a sick child.

Lots of discussions already on the topic.
If sedation was used, it would have been likely to be something much more than calpol. If this was the case I believe that it was provided by one or other of T7, possibly during an early evening visit around 6.30 say. Giving an excelent reason for invovement in helping to conceal.
Anyone providing drugs in this way would be sure to lose their licence to practice, at the very least. Even if the person didn't administer the drug himself.
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Post by pennylane 03.11.13 10:54

dantezebu wrote:
@sami wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Dr What wrote:If Maddie had difficulty settling and sleeping at night, that might explain why the Mcs did not take a baby monitor with them.It would have been going off all the time, and disrupting their 'so into each other' time at the bar and restaurant.

I believe they had calpol with them.Perhaps they decided that calpol would be a better investment than a baby monitor to ensure a peaceful evening[s] out.
How many spoonfuls of calpol would it take (given to a  year old) to ensure a peaceful night?
My experience of calpol is that it will not induce sleep, merely facilitate sleep by providing pain relief to a sick child.

Lots of discussions already on the topic.
If sedation was used, it would have been likely to be something much more than calpol. If this was the case I believe that it was provided by one or other of T7, possibly during an early evening visit around 6.30 say. Giving an excelent reason for invovement in helping to conceal.
Anyone providing drugs in this way would be sure to lose their licence to practice, at the very least. Even if the person didn't administer the drug himself.
I have said many times that O'B would likely have had sleeping medication with him for his daughter who had a serious foot infection/operation immediately prior to the ill-fated holiday.  This would have dragged him bang in the middle of it all and  would explain why Jane gave Gerry an alibi, no matter how dodgy sounding, after he ran into the Smith family!

(imo)
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Post by Guest 03.11.13 10:55

@SchrodingersBody wrote:
@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Carver, please list the evidence that supports Madeleine having been abducted by a group of paedophiles
Is this the point where carver exits stage left ??
***
Carver joined last night at 8:22pm and left the stage this morning at 2:56am.
In those 6,5 hours he posted 42 comments. That's roughly one every 9-10 minutes ... I can imagine we won't see him for a while. He must be exhausted big grin 
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Post by Guest 03.11.13 10:56

It's always a bad sign when a new member is so prolific right from the start!
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Post by PeterMac 03.11.13 10:57

Slightly off topic, but to reply to the above
The McCanns themselves said they believed the children were sedated. (This after a long time of threatening to sue anyone who said they might have been - par for the course, really !)
Whatever was used had to knock the twins out for 10 hours, and leave no after effects.
Only a trained anaesthetists would know how to do this, and . . .
da daahh . . . !
there were TWO anaesthetists in the group.
Step forward Kate McCann and Fiona Payne.
The two who then looked after the twins, but did not rouse them, or attempt to rouse them, nor to perform any of the normal checks one normally would on a comatose patient.
Was this professional negligence of the most gross kind ?
Or did they both know perfectly well what had been given, when and in what quantity.
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Post by Guest 03.11.13 10:59

@PeterMac wrote: [...]
Or did they both know perfectly well what had been given, when and in what quantity.
***
IMO it's that one.
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Post by secrets and lies 03.11.13 11:04

Even if another of the T9 had administered sleeping pills to Madeleine, how does that effect ALL of them into becoming complicit. Perhaps the partner of whomever hypothetically did the administering but that does not count for the rest of them.

Unless, of course, they were all using sedation on their children. I'm aware this had been widely discussed. But how monstrous. And, if so, why then the need for the baby monitor that one of the T9 couples brought to dinner?
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Post by SchrodingersBody 03.11.13 11:08

@sami wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Dr What wrote:If Maddie had difficulty settling and sleeping at night, that might explain why the Mcs did not take a baby monitor with them.It would have been going off all the time, and disrupting their 'so into each other' time at the bar and restaurant.

I believe they had calpol with them.Perhaps they decided that calpol would be a better investment than a baby monitor to ensure a peaceful evening[s] out.
How many spoonfuls of calpol would it take (given to a  year old) to ensure a peaceful night?
My experience of calpol is that it will not induce sleep, merely facilitate sleep by providing pain relief to a sick child.

Lots of discussions already on the topic.
I'd agree with that, and a bit of placebo effect when administered helps as well.
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Post by Woofer 03.11.13 11:10

Châtelaine wrote:
@SchrodingersBody wrote:
@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Carver, please list the evidence that supports Madeleine having been abducted by a group of paedophiles
Is this the point where carver exits stage left ??
***
Carver joined last night at 8:22pm and left the stage this morning at  2:56am.
In those 6,5 hours he posted 42 comments. That's roughly one every 9-10 minutes ... I can imagine we won't see him for a while. He must be exhausted big grin 
Carver wasn`t the usual run of trolls because he was reasonably polite. Seemed to me he was playing devil`s advocate to see what answers he got. He could have been a member of the SY team or a member of the CPS testing theories.  But then again, he might have been a member of TM (but they`re not usually so restrained).

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Post by Guest 03.11.13 11:24

You wouldn`t need anything sophisticated to sedate a child. An over the counter antihistamine eg Piriton, travel sickness tablet or hayfever tablet would do the trick. 

I`ve not got the link for the hair testing laboratory but looked at it a few weeks ago. Their standard battery of tests covers drugs of abuse eg cannabis, opiates etc and only a few drugs used clinically so Kate McCann`s assertion that the tests showed nothing is meaningless  when considered in context. Unless she can demonstrate that they tested for every drug with sedative properties then the testing was pointless. Somehow I don`t think we`ll be seeing that data anytime soon.
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Post by Guest 03.11.13 11:32

@Carver wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Carver wrote:
Doesn't this explain precisely why the McCann's may have dismissed Smithman before?
The McCanns are not, and should never have been in a position to 'dismiss' anything.
Excuse me? It was the McCanns fund paying for it wasn't it (regardless of it being donations, they raised them) This makes them more than entitled to choose what lead they want to spend the money on.
Actually,  his latter comment here made me wonder if he was from TM. So vehement and indignant all of a sudden, as if he'd been provoked into sudden outrage.
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Post by Guest 03.11.13 11:56

chilli wrote:You wouldn`t need anything sophisticated to sedate a child. An over the counter antihistamine eg Piriton, travel sickness tablet or hayfever tablet would do the trick. 

I`ve not got the link for the hair testing laboratory but looked at it a few weeks ago. Their standard battery of tests covers drugs of abuse eg cannabis, opiates etc and only a few drugs used clinically so Kate McCann`s assertion that the tests showed nothing is meaningless  when considered in context. Unless she can demonstrate that they tested for every drug with sedative properties then the testing was pointless. Somehow I don`t think we`ll be seeing that data anytime soon.
If sedation was used and a problem ensued from that, it's not likely to be an antihistamine etc. because there would be no problem if this had occurred. A genuine reaction to a freely available otc med. Where is the problem? No it had most likely to be a benzodiazepine. Or maybe a combination of the both. If the usual calpol/antihistamine hadn't worked for the past two nights as was eveident it's pobably they topped up with something else.
Doctors do like to self medicate, and anyone of them could be carrying diazepam/ temazepam. Does anyone know if DW was taking any meds? I don't think the others used this on their children, just mm seemed to be the one with the sleep problems interfering with the "adult time".
If this was discussed amongst the group beforehand i.e. who has got what meds with them, then they would all be complicit.
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Post by worriedmum 03.11.13 12:01

Dee Coy wrote:
@Carver wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Carver wrote:
Doesn't this explain precisely why the McCann's may have dismissed Smithman before?
The McCanns are not, and should never have been in a position to 'dismiss' anything.
Excuse me? It was the McCanns fund paying for it wasn't it (regardless of it being donations, they raised them) This makes them more than entitled to choose what lead they want to spend the money on.
Actually,  his latter comment here made me wonder if he was from TM. So vehement and indignant all of a sudden, as if he'd been provoked into sudden outrage.
Yes and the use of the word 'entitled', lol! 
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Post by Carver 03.11.13 12:10

And so it begins. I'm a troll because I don't share your opinion?

I don't have proof of the abduction I just find it the easiest explanation to believe.

Why don't you require the same level of proof for your own theory? All these years and not one mistake by these 2 doctors turned mastermind criminals?
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Post by plebgate 03.11.13 12:14

@worriedmum wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Carver wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Carver wrote:
Doesn't this explain precisely why the McCann's may have dismissed Smithman before?
The McCanns are not, and should never have been in a position to 'dismiss' anything.
Excuse me? It was the McCanns fund paying for it wasn't it (regardless of it being donations, they raised them) This makes them more than entitled to choose what lead they want to spend the money on.
Actually,  his latter comment here made me wonder if he was from TM. So vehement and indignant all of a sudden, as if he'd been provoked into sudden outrage.
Yes and the use of the word 'entitled', lol! 
Re. the red highlighting that made me laugh -"they raised them".  

Did they really.  My understanding of people raising money is to actually go out interact with the general public, usually standing for hours with a tin/box or to take part in different events involving lots of training such as cycle races, running races, swimathons etc.

As I remember it they had a spokesperson appearing on tv/radio asking people to put money in an envelope marked Kate and Gerry, Rothley and it would get to them.   They also had the world media reporting on poor little missing Maddie with the message help us look for her, leave no stone unturned and the money was flooding in from that to.

Oh that all charities/funds had such a spokesperson, access to the media.

I am not saying that people did not do local fun runs and baking events etc., but to say THEY raised the monies, is I believe, a slight exaggeration.
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