Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

by plebgate 16.10.13 21:29

SixMillionQuid wrote:
Karen Pinto wrote:This one

Mike Spudgun ‏@spudgun01 2h
Number of notable Journalists that I have spoken to this week who feel the MET is playing a reeling in game with the #McCanns is heartening!
If that's what they believe then they better hope GA wins his libel trial...the gloves will be off.

I still say he will win.

Even if a "snatcher" is arrested before 27th November there will still need to be a trial which would not happen for a while and a jury would need to find the person guilty, unless of course he fesses up.

I believe this trial is based on evidence which was available at the time and Tapas crew and Mr. & Mrs. definitely pushed bundleman as the main suspect. The police work was based on their written statements also.

What will this evidence that Mrs. has to bring to court in trial in Portugal which will prove that Mr. A's book was lies?

by plebgate 16.10.13 21:33

StraightThinking wrote:NSY says that, by moving the abduction timeline back to after 21.15, it creates a bigger window of opportunity for an abductor to strike

I don't agree. In fact, it has made an abduction almost impossible

21.30 approx - MO and RO'B doing checks

21.40 approx - the balance of independent witnesses suggests that the Tapas table emptied around this time (except DW), ie this is when the alarm was raised, not 21.55 as widely assumed

NSY has the new abduction window as 21.15 - 22.00 but it can't have been later than 21.35-ish

So the opportunity is limited to the point of near impossibility

I believe there is a Tapas Bar receipt timed at about 22.00 (?), suggesting that the party went on until then, but the bill would presumably have been issued when DW finally left the table, rather than when the others were all dashing for the exit on the alarm being sounded

There is no significant opportunity for an abductor in that new timeline, despite what CW stated

Good post

by nomendelta 16.10.13 21:33

Now let's get this right...

The Tanner sighting has always been regarded as dubious - numerous discrepancies in her account along with her remarkable ability to embellish details the more time had passed. Yet it's one that the McCanns leaped on and many artistic impressions have been done based on the sighting.

Now, SY have identified the "bundleman" to their satisfaction and not only was it not an abductor, the child wasn't Maddie but WAS about the same age and WAS wearing similar pyjamas.

Here is my quandary. Either it's all true and by some remarkable coincidence Tanner really DID see such a person - a person carrying a child of Maddie's rough age wearing clothes similar to Maddie at the same time that Maddie herself was being abducted and, apparently, walked by the bad man down to the beach...incredible stuff that would stretch the belief of even the most avid "Murder She Wrote" fan.

Furthermore, some have posited that Tanner made it up at the behest of the McCanns. Now, if this was the case...what exactly must be going through their heads right now?

by Nereid 16.10.13 21:51

LastChancery wrote:more than 20 calls before the show.

more information in about 40min

I can't get the live broadcast. Will try again tomorrow! Thank you.

by Prehensile 16.10.13 21:51

nomendelta wrote:Now let's get this right...

The Tanner sighting has always been regarded as dubious - numerous discrepancies in her account along with her remarkable ability to embellish details the more time had passed. Yet it's one that the McCanns leaped on and many artistic impressions have been done based on the sighting.

Now, SY have identified the "bundleman" to their satisfaction and not only was it not an abductor, the child wasn't Maddie but WAS about the same age and WAS wearing similar pyjamas.

Here is my quandary. Either it's all true and by some remarkable coincidence Tanner really DID see such a person - a person carrying a child of Maddie's rough age wearing clothes similar to Maddie at the same time that Maddie herself was being abducted and, apparently, walked by the bad man down to the beach...incredible stuff that would stretch the belief of even the most avid "Murder She Wrote" fan.

Furthermore, some have posited that Tanner made it up at the behest of the McCanns. Now, if this was the case...what exactly must be going through their heads right now?

I posted a similar question yesterday, inasmuch T9 must know they have been rumbled.

by Smokeandmirrors 16.10.13 22:30

StraightThinking wrote:NSY says that, by moving the abduction timeline back to after 21.15, it creates a bigger window of opportunity for an abductor to strike

I don't agree. In fact, it has made an abduction almost impossible

21.30 approx - MO and RO'B doing checks

21.40 approx - the balance of independent witnesses suggests that the Tapas table emptied around this time (except DW), ie this is when the alarm was raised, not 21.55 as widely assumed

NSY has the new abduction window as 21.15 - 22.00 but it can't have been later than 21.35-ish

So the opportunity is limited to the point of near impossibility

I believe there is a Tapas Bar receipt timed at about 22.00 (?), suggesting that the party went on until then, but the bill would presumably have been issued when DW finally left the table, rather than when the others were all dashing for the exit on the alarm being sounded

There is no significant opportunity for an abductor in that new timeline, despite what CW stated

Great first post. There is also a witness statement from someone else at the Tapas (not the main group, another party or couple) which is not in the public domain, and I wager this contradicts the timings or absences from the table.

In addition to that, what makes abduction highly unlikely is the TWO very close together checks made by Matt and Gerry, and Jane going by, Matt again at 9-30.

Anyone seriously watching for an opportunity, given the frequency of alleged checks PLUS the lights being visibly on in Mrs Fenn's apartment upstairs, is too high risk IMO. I simply cannot believe it is a risk that would have been taken. IF the alarm WAS raised at 9-40, you are correct, there was virtually NO chance in line with PeterMacs timings from before the Tanner sighting was discounted. Whichever way they spin it, it just sounds completely stupid.

As an aside, in an interview with Sandra Figuerla(sp?), she said they were checking every 15 mins. Gerry jumps straight in there, annoyed almost, and pointedly says No, it was every half an hour. On that night, the ONLY half an hour opportunity was between 9-30 and 10. Gerry was very strange when he replied.

If anyone can put a link up for this clip I would be most grateful indeed. He was at pains to ENSURE the half hour was set in stone.

by sallypelt 16.10.13 22:40

Well, thinks appear to be unfolding. It's being said that more than one person heard someone calling out Madeleine's name around 9:30. One tweet has said that someone heard Kate give out a "piecing scream". If these claims have any credibility, it could account for the bruises on Kate McCann's arms on the very earliest appeal. She must have be hysterical, but Gerry could have tried to calm her down. And grabbing someone by the arms would be the thing to do, IMO.

by Sceneset 16.10.13 22:56

Hi sallypelt, I think that may have been said on an ITV or BBC interview, on a sifa...not with Sandra. I'm wracking my brains, will post if I can remember!

by stillsloppingout 16.10.13 23:02

Prehensile wrote:
nomendelta wrote:Now let's get this right...

The Tanner sighting has always been regarded as dubious - numerous discrepancies in her account along with her remarkable ability to embellish details the more time had passed. Yet it's one that the McCanns leaped on and many artistic impressions have been done based on the sighting.

Now, SY have identified the "bundleman" to their satisfaction and not only was it not an abductor, the child wasn't Maddie but WAS about the same age and WAS wearing similar pyjamas.

Here is my quandary. Either it's all true and by some remarkable coincidence Tanner really DID see such a person - a person carrying a child of Maddie's rough age wearing clothes similar to Maddie at the same time that Maddie herself was being abducted and, apparently, walked by the bad man down to the beach...incredible stuff that would stretch the belief of even the most avid "Murder She Wrote" fan.

Furthermore, some have posited that Tanner made it up at the behest of the McCanns. Now, if this was the case...what exactly must be going through their heads right now?
I posted a similar question yesterday, inasmuch T9 must know they have been rumbled.

As Posters have alluded to.

SY read this site , The McCann's, and there band of merry men , plus the tapas friends read this site also [ HI !! ]. They know that we know they have been rumbled . but don't forget IMO as we know there was NO Tanner sighting , i wait with baited breath for the papers to be full of interviews with this poor man who , to paraphrase Mitchell ' had a perfectly innocent explanation for being there '.

There will not be any interviews because this man does NOT exist .

If the Yard were in pursuit of justice , it is always wise to remember especially to our " tapas munching friend's ," !!! the public take kinder to the first person to confess , they have the opportunity to get there reasoning out first .

by sallypelt 16.10.13 23:02

Taken From S Carpenter's PJ Statement:

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment

So, the Carpenters left the Tapas bar between 9:15 and 9:30, and around this time Mrs Carpenter heard someone calling Madeleine

by Guest 16.10.13 23:11

Sceneset wrote:Hi sallypelt, I think that may have been said on an ITV or BBC interview, on a sifa...not with Sandra. I'm wracking my brains, will post if I can remember!

With Sandra @4.15

by Sceneset 16.10.13 23:18

Well done Candyfloss, though i'll hunt for the other one too , I'm always shocked that their interview replies are so scripted that they repeat themselves verbatim to each similar question.

by The Slave 16.10.13 23:21

Not this time they didn't. Gerry stares at kate with a look of bewilderment and panic. Marvelous.

by Sceneset 16.10.13 23:21

Why do you think that The Slave? Or could you post a link please if it has English subtitles?

by MoonGoddess 16.10.13 23:30

sallypelt wrote:Taken From S Carpenter's PJ Statement:

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment

So, the Carpenters left the Tapas bar between 9:15 and 9:30, and around this time Mrs Carpenter heard someone calling Madeleine

does anyone else think JT saw SC and just placed him at the top of the road instead of the middle? this was supposedly at the time of her check.... OR she didn't do a check, but had seen him leave the Tapas and knew he was walking/carrying his daughter in the area with his daughter.. she felt confident to go with her 'sighting' because she knew it could be true....

by Smokeandmirrors 16.10.13 23:38

candyfloss wrote:
Sceneset wrote:Hi sallypelt, I think that may have been said on an ITV or BBC interview, on a sifa...not with Sandra. I'm wracking my brains, will post if I can remember!
With Sandra @4.15

Thank you Candyfloss

by Woofer 16.10.13 23:55

MoonGoddess wrote:
sallypelt wrote:Taken From S Carpenter's PJ Statement:

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment

So, the Carpenters left the Tapas bar between 9:15 and 9:30, and around this time Mrs Carpenter heard someone calling Madeleine
does anyone else think JT saw SC and just placed him at the top of the road instead of the middle? this was supposedly at the time of her check.... OR she didn't do a check, but had seen him leave the Tapas and knew he was walking/carrying his daughter in the area with his daughter.. she felt confident to go with her 'sighting' because she knew it could be true....

Now ... there`s a thought.... especially if the Carpenters crossed the road a bit further up.

by sallypelt 17.10.13 0:08

I can't believe what I am reading
Quote

Joan Burnie: Kate and Gerry McCann shouldn't be persecuted by vile online trolls for trying to find their daughter

Such as James Bulger’s mum, Denise, momentarily losing track of her son in a shopping centre.
Unquote

There is NO comparison with what happened to J Bulger and Madeleine McCann. James was at his mother's side. The McCann children were left on their own

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940#.Ul65TknRGXE.twitter

by MoonGoddess 17.10.13 0:08

Woofer wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:
sallypelt wrote:Taken From S Carpenter's PJ Statement:

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment

So, the Carpenters left the Tapas bar between 9:15 and 9:30, and around this time Mrs Carpenter heard someone calling Madeleine
does anyone else think JT saw SC and just placed him at the top of the road instead of the middle? this was supposedly at the time of her check.... OR she didn't do a check, but had seen him leave the Tapas and knew he was walking/carrying his daughter in the area with his daughter.. she felt confident to go with her 'sighting' because she knew it could be true....
Now ... there`s a thought.... especially if the Carpenters crossed the road a bit further up.

he indicates that they crossed the road outside the main reception, she could have been walking down towards the reception and just spun the scene around.... I don't believe she left the table, I think she saw him leave the tapas.... anyone familiar with Tracey Andrews/Lee Harvey might remember that she did a similar thing by placing someone they'd seen at the pub and made him into the 'road rage man'

Just watched the German version of Crimewatch, Thank You to whoever posted.... bit too tired to fully digest but it appeared to have far more detail and I wonder why.... LOL'd when they showed Gerry checking the time on his watch that the Pink one said he wasn't wearing!

by Guest 17.10.13 0:12

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2461994/SARAH-VINE-Maddie-little-girl-life-risk-avoid.html#ixzz2hpsYfkZu

Darkened room here I come after reading this.

This one is even worse.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940

Words fail me at the comparison between James Bulger's mother and the McCanns.

Just off to vacuum up all the feathers that I've spat everywhere.

Yes sallypelt, this one didn't do my blood pressure any good. Apparently Joan Burnie is well known in Scotland for being a mad old bat.

I hope that James's mother complains about being linked with the McCanns.

by Mirage 17.10.13 0:14

sallypelt wrote:I can't believe what I am reading
Quote

Joan Burnie: Kate and Gerry McCann shouldn't be persecuted by vile online trolls for trying to find their daughter

Such as James Bulger’s mum, Denise, momentarily losing track of her son in a shopping centre.
Unquote

There is NO comparison with what happened to J Bulger and Madeleine McCann. James was at his mother's side. The McCann children were left on their own

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940#.Ul65TknRGXE.twitter

I saw this earlier today, sallypelt. It is breath-taking that Mrs Ferguson should be traduced in this way. I don't doubt she'll have plenty to say when she finds out and I don't blame her. This and another piece of sycophantic drivel in the DM today from Sarah Vine tells me there is something really dreadful going on in our society. Neither article has been well received. This Sarah Vine is the wife of Education Secretary Michael Gove, I read somewhere.

by Prehensile 17.10.13 0:14

sallypelt wrote:I can't believe what I am reading
Quote

Joan Burnie: Kate and Gerry McCann shouldn't be persecuted by vile online trolls for trying to find their daughter

Such as James Bulger’s mum, Denise, momentarily losing track of her son in a shopping centre.
Unquote

There is NO comparison with what happened to J Bulger and Madeleine McCann. James was at his mother's side. The McCann children were left on their own

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940#.Ul65TknRGXE.twitter

My wife has dealt with the daily record....Annie Barrett

by sallypelt 17.10.13 0:15

Prehensile wrote:
sallypelt wrote:I can't believe what I am reading
Quote

Joan Burnie: Kate and Gerry McCann shouldn't be persecuted by vile online trolls for trying to find their daughter

Such as James Bulger’s mum, Denise, momentarily losing track of her son in a shopping centre.
Unquote

There is NO comparison with what happened to J Bulger and Madeleine McCann. James was at his mother's side. The McCann children were left on their own

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940#.Ul65TknRGXE.twitter
My wife has dealt with the daily record....Annie Barrett

Prehensile, I hope it's in connection with the Jame Bulger claim. If I was Denise Fergerson I would be livid

by sallypelt 17.10.13 0:24

I've read so many posts on here, today, after being without internet access since 7:30 PM Monday evening until this morning. I can see that a few posters have referred to me, but I have missed most of them, until this evening, as I was jumping from thread to thread. So, a belated ty to MoonGodess and others. I am glad to be back, and hope that I am now up to speed.

I have to say that my brain is scrambled with all this info to absorb