Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

by Guest 27.09.13 16:21

Portia wrote:The lawyer for Guerra y Paz interrogates the witness ms Sitwell:

Didn't you say your objective was to clarify things in order to inform the public?

Witness answers that:

(a) From the beginning in May 2007, she claimed she would be objective and wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the parents,

known to be the initial suspects in this kind of case

And again:

(b) From the beginning in May 2007, she claimed she would be objective and wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the parents,

known to be the initial suspects in this kind of case.

So:

(a) Witness knew from May 2007 that the parents were the initial suspects;

(b) Witness considers being objective: to be on the side of initial suspects unless necessity dictates otherwise

Have merged the thread you started with this one Portia.

by Guest 27.09.13 16:25

candyfloss wrote:
Portia wrote:The lawyer for Guerra y Paz interrogates the witness ms Sitwell:

Didn't you say your objective was to clarify things in order to inform the public?

Witness answers that:

(a) From the beginning in May 2007, she claimed she would be objective and wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the parents,

known to be the initial suspects in this kind of case

And again:

(b) From the beginning in May 2007, she claimed she would be objective and wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the parents,

known to be the initial suspects in this kind of case.

So:

(a) Witness knew from May 2007 that the parents were the initial suspects;

(b) Witness considers being objective: to be on the side of initial suspects unless necessity dictates otherwise
Have merged the thread you started with this one Portia.

Thank you.
Must admit ms Sitwells shenanigans left me speechless, sort of.

by jeanmonroe 27.09.13 16:28

candyfloss wrote:
Portia wrote:The lawyer for Guerra y Paz interrogates the witness ms Sitwell:

Didn't you say your objective was to clarify things in order to inform the public?

Witness answers that:

(a) From the beginning in May 2007, she claimed she would be objective and wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the parents,

known to be the initial suspects in this kind of case

And again:

(b) From the beginning in May 2007, she claimed she would be objective and wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the parents,

known to be the initial suspects in this kind of case.

So:

(a) Witness knew from May 2007 that the parents were the initial suspects;

(b) Witness considers being objective: to be on the side of initial suspects unless necessity dictates otherwise
Have merged the thread you started with this one Portia.

HOW? they weren't made arguidos until September 2007.

i think Murat was made arguido in the May, wasn't he?

So how did the witness, IS, KNOW that the McCanns were suspects in May?

by Liz Eagles 27.09.13 16:33

Missing People the charity who have adopted Kate as an ambassador and who we have since found use the services of Alan Pike and his company CCP, have not updated the front page of their website News since 5th September 2013, despite having held their first ever family conference on 7th September which included a Chief Constable and a trauma specialist among the guest speakers.

Findmadeleine, the McCann's website (37k paid for by donations) has only had one message from the McCanns this year regarding the anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine.

It's a tangled old world in fundraising innit.

by Angelique 27.09.13 16:39

I just think Gerry's arrival and request to be a witness is "managed orchestration" by TM. They knew about the change of law but why leave it so late. Circumstances actually conspired to help TM make more of it than they could have asked for. I think its also possible it was to wrong foot GA's lawyer, maybe they heard through the Court of his intentions before it was officially confirmed.

Making a late request and flying in is all done for show. Yes, it was possibly always his intention to appear and he may well appear in the witness box but instead of going through the normal procedure they make it a show. So that if he is not allowed to give evidence they can then claim the victim role yet again.

by jozi 27.09.13 16:54

[quote="Angelique"]I just think Gerry's arrival and request to be a witness is "managed orchestration" by TM. They knew about the change of law but why leave it so late. Circumstances actually conspired to help TM make more of it than they could have asked for. I think its also possible it was to wrong foot GA's lawyer, maybe they heard through the Court of his intentions before it was officially confirmed.

Making a late request and flying in is all done for show. Yes, it was possibly always his intention to appear and he may well appear in the witness box but instead of going through the normal procedure they make it a show. So that if he is not allowed to give evidence they can then claim the victim role yet again.[/quotecan}

I agree Angelique, yes

Its getting boring now. Gerry gallops into town on his steed , guns firing at full speed determined to give his true account of the Mcs being wrong by the sleazy Portuguese ex cop and his book...but wait, Gerry firing blanks (again) and the court has packed up and closed for the day ( nobody informed Gerry ) the swines !!!

Just another tale to add to the saga.

by Truthandjustice 27.09.13 17:07

So the Mcperception of the final report was that it closed the case and exonerated them of guilt. This is what they told the world. When in fact the report does not declare the guilt or innocence of anyone (presumably only a trial would do that), nor did it close the case. It seems to me that they are essentially sueing GA for making more people aware of this report. It is somewhat inconvenient that said report contradicts their spin but taking it out on GA will not rewrite the facts. I can't see how their lawyers ever advised them to take this to court.

by pennylane 27.09.13 17:34

Truthandjustice wrote:So the Mcperception of the final report was that it closed the case and exonerated them of guilt. This is what they told the world. When in fact the report does not declare the guilt or innocence of anyone (presumably only a trial would do that), nor did it close the case. It seems to me that they are essentially sueing GA for making more people aware of this report. It is somewhat inconvenient that said report contradicts their spin but taking it out on GA will not rewrite the facts. I can't see how their lawyers ever advised them to take this to court.

If they had been paying all those lawyers, PR teams, and Carter Ruck fees out of their own pockets, and not out of monies donated to 'search' for their missing child, they would not have had the finances to bully and sue TB or GA or anyone else! Well guess what, all that other peoples money has finally come back and kicked them in the butt.

by ProfessorPPlum 27.09.13 18:17

I've just spent the last two hours catching back up on this and other threads. The more I read, the more privileged I feel to be witnessing this historic moment in time and to be in the good company of so many patient, intelligent, caring and decent people going the distance with this. I can hardly believe what I'm reading, the craziness, the arrogance of Team McCann and their witnesses. For the first time since MBM disappeared I am truly optimistic that justice will eventually be done.

The McCann world is finally unravelling and all because, as so many have commented already, their arrogance led them to be certain this would never get to court.

by The Slave 27.09.13 19:54

Greed. That's what's done for them. And Kate's spite.

by ultimaThule 27.09.13 22:27

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/09/gerry-mccann-wants-to-speak-in-court.html

It appears that, although Gerry may have been seen entering and leaving the building, he was not allowed into the Court. As it is inconceivable he wasn't informed he would not be able to participate in today's proceedings, one has to wonder why he chose rack up more airmiles at the expense of the Fund?

It also appears that Dr Amaral together with his co-defendants and their lawyers hold it within their power to consent to Gerry taking the witness stand, or not as the case may be.

by **PeterMac** 27.09.13 22:54

Truthandjustice wrote:So the Mcperception of the final report was that it closed the case and exonerated them of guilt. This is what they told the world. When in fact the report does not declare the guilt or innocence of anyone. . . .

CUE for yet another repeat of the interim report and the final conclusion - so that Adam Tudor and Mrs Matorell of Carter-Ruck, Kevin, the McCanns, their acolytes, and anyone else who still has a small portion of their cerebrum in operation can understand. . .

Tavares de Almeida - author of the interim report - Quick reminder
Conclusions:
From everything that we have discovered, our files result in the following conclusions:
A. the minor Madeleine McCann died in Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, on the night of 3 May 2007
B. a simulation - a staged hoax - of an abduction took place
C. in order to render the child’s death impossible before 10.00pm, a situation of checking of the McCann couple’s children while they slept was concocted
D. Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann are involved in the concealment of the corpse of their daughter, Madeleine McCann
E. at this moment, there seems to be no strong indications that the child’s death was other than the result of a tragic accident, yet;
From what has been established up to now, everything indicates that the McCann couple, in self-defence, did not want to deliver up Madeleine’s corpse immediately and voluntarily, and there is a strong possibility therefore that it was moved from the initial place where she died. This situation may raise questions concerning the circumstances in which the death of the child took place.

The Republic's Prosecutor - José de Magalhaes e Menezes
and
The Joint General Prosecutor - Joao Melchior Gomes
authors of the archiving report. Quick Reminder

viii - Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow a reasonable man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction) nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.

Hello, Hello ! Time for your tablets Isabel !
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Gerry were allowed to give evidence, and was immediately followed by Tavares de Almeida - and before he could leave the precincts of the court building, could be re-called by the Judge - to Clarrie-fy some issues.

by maebee 27.09.13 23:02

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/madeleine-mccann-kate-attend-libel-hearing-010321561.html#eZeOSNx

Comments are 100% anti Mc & pro Madeleine. Pity that the rest of the British media don't take a leaf out of Yahoo News' book.

by JackieL 27.09.13 23:13

Truthandjustice wrote:So the Mcperception of the final report was that it closed the case and exonerated them of guilt. This is what they told the world. When in fact the report does not declare the guilt or innocence of anyone (presumably only a trial would do that), nor did it close the case. It seems to me that they are essentially sueing GA for making more people aware of this report. It is somewhat inconvenient that said report contradicts their spin but taking it out on GA will not rewrite the facts. I can't see how their lawyers ever advised them to take this to court.

Perfectly expressed, Truthandjustice.

by Guest 27.09.13 23:22

PeterMac wrote:
Truthandjustice wrote:So the Mcperception of the final report was that it closed the case and exonerated them of guilt. This is what they told the world. When in fact the report does not declare the guilt or innocence of anyone. . . .
CUE for yet another repeat of the interim report and the final conclusion - so that Adam Tudor and Mrs Matorell of Carter-Ruck, Kevin, the McCanns, their acolytes, and anyone else who still has a small portion of their cerebrum in operation can understand. . .

Tavares de Almeida - author of the interim report - Quick reminder
Conclusions:
From everything that we have discovered, our files result in the following conclusions:
A. the minor Madeleine McCann died in Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, on the night of 3 May 2007
B. a simulation - a staged hoax - of an abduction took place
C. in order to render the child’s death impossible before 10.00pm, a situation of checking of the McCann couple’s children while they slept was concocted
D. Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann are involved in the concealment of the corpse of their daughter, Madeleine McCann
E. at this moment, there seems to be no strong indications that the child’s death was other than the result of a tragic accident, yet;
From what has been established up to now, everything indicates that the McCann couple, in self-defence, did not want to deliver up Madeleine’s corpse immediately and voluntarily, and there is a strong possibility therefore that it was moved from the initial place where she died. This situation may raise questions concerning the circumstances in which the death of the child took place.

The Republic's Prosecutor - José de Magalhaes e Menezes
and
The Joint General Prosecutor - Joao Melchior Gomes
authors of the archiving report. Quick Reminder

viii - Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow a reasonable man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction) nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
Hello, Hello ! Time for your tablets Isabel !
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Gerry were allowed to give evidence, and was immediately followed by Tavares de Almeida - and before he could leave the precincts of the court building, could be re-called by the Judge - to Clarrie-fy some issues.

And, be arrested -excuse me- be invited to help the PJ & SY with their joint investigations?

by Woofer 27.09.13 23:44

PeterMac wrote:
Truthandjustice wrote:So the Mcperception of the final report was that it closed the case and exonerated them of guilt. This is what they told the world. When in fact the report does not declare the guilt or innocence of anyone. . . .
CUE for yet another repeat of the interim report and the final conclusion - so that Adam Tudor and Mrs Matorell of Carter-Ruck, Kevin, the McCanns, their acolytes, and anyone else who still has a small portion of their cerebrum in operation can understand. . .

Tavares de Almeida - author of the interim report - Quick reminder
Conclusions:
From everything that we have discovered, our files result in the following conclusions:
A. the minor Madeleine McCann died in Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, on the night of 3 May 2007
B. a simulation - a staged hoax - of an abduction took place
C. in order to render the child’s death impossible before 10.00pm, a situation of checking of the McCann couple’s children while they slept was concocted
D. Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann are involved in the concealment of the corpse of their daughter, Madeleine McCann
E. at this moment, there seems to be no strong indications that the child’s death was other than the result of a tragic accident, yet;
From what has been established up to now, everything indicates that the McCann couple, in self-defence, did not want to deliver up Madeleine’s corpse immediately and voluntarily, and there is a strong possibility therefore that it was moved from the initial place where she died. This situation may raise questions concerning the circumstances in which the death of the child took place.

The Republic's Prosecutor - José de Magalhaes e Menezes
and
The Joint General Prosecutor - Joao Melchior Gomes
authors of the archiving report. Quick Reminder

viii - Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow a reasonable man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction) nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
Hello, Hello ! Time for your tablets Isabel !
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Gerry were allowed to give evidence, and was immediately followed by Tavares de Almeida - and before he could leave the precincts of the court building, could be re-called by the Judge - to Clarrie-fy some issues.

Tavares de Almeida is testifying on the 8th October - maybe he will get the opportunity to read the above out to the Court. It needs to be voiced publicly.

And perhaps someone, who is a member, should place it loud and clear on the Justice Forum.

by Pyewacket 28.09.13 8:32

Here's an article from the Guardian, that may be of interest.

The father of missing girl Madeleine McCann has said that he wants to give evidence in a libel trial against the Portuguese detective who accused him and his wife of covering up her death.
Gerry McCann flew into Portugal for the trial, saying "I'm here for Madeleine, hopefully for justice," but conceded that he was not sure if he would be allowed to take the stand.
The McCanns are suing Gonçalo Amaral for €1.2m (£1m) in damages over a book he wrote, which their lawyers say was defamatory and helped poison public opinion against the couple. When the trial was abruptly adjourned for the day, Gerry McCann said he was disappointed, but that if he got the opportunity to come back he would take it.
Madeleine's mother, Kate, had previously attended the opening day of the trial against Amaral, who led the initial investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from a holiday resort in Praia da Luz in May 2007, shortly before her fourth birthday.
On the subject of the accusations made against against the family, Gerry McCann said on Friday: "Kate and I know better than anyone what we have experienced and what we have been through."
In his book Maddie: The Truth of the Lie, Amaral wrote that Madeleine died accidentally in her room and that the McCanns deliberately faked her disappearance in order to distract attention from her death. The McCanns strongly deny these claims and were cleared of any involvement in her disappearance when the Portuguese investigation was closed in July 2008.
A month later, Amaral, 56, who was removed from the investigation after criticising British police and has since retired from the force, published the book. In 2010 the McCanns succeeded in getting a court in Lisbon to ban it, but the decision was overruled later that year, and the book remains on sale in Portugal.
The court case has echoes of a previous trial in the UK. In March 2008 the McCanns won £550,000 in damages from Express Newspapers after what were described as "grotesque and grossly defamatory" allegations contained in more than 100 articles about their daughter's disappearance. The Express and Star newspapers ran front-page apologies to the McCanns for publishing the articles, some of which suggested the couple were involved in her death.
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, submitted a request for Gerry McCann to give evidence. The defence now has 10 days to say if they agree.

LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE - Page 3 Daily-email-uk

Sign up for the Guardian T

by **PeterMac** 28.09.13 8:46

And someone can point out that all GA's book does, is say what is in that interim report, just a bit longer and with the evidence to back those propositions.

by susible 28.09.13 8:46

The court case has echoes of a previous trial in the UK. In March 2008 the McCanns won £550,000 in damages from Express Newspapers after what were described as "grotesque and grossly defamatory" allegations contained in more than 100 articles about their daughter's disappearance. The Express and Star newspapers ran front-page apologies to the McCanns for publishing the articles, some of which suggested the couple were involved in her death.

Arrggghhhh.....The flipping uk media enrage me at times...There was never any trial....And the Mc's were never cleared of anything

At least they've been reasonably accurate re the book ban being overturned and the fact the Gerry has to apply 10 days in advance to give evidence

But as usual, I have ended up with soaring blood pressure reading that tripe.

Thanks though Pyewacket for posting it roses

by marconi 28.09.13 8:48

The McCanns had at least 3 years to prepare this libel hearing and they just brought trash witnesses into the case.
Extremely badly prepared, all of them.
How did they manage to make it?

by tiny 28.09.13 8:51

I think Gerry,s arrival at the court was a stunt,he knew he couldn't give evidence and ID knew to,still it got him in the papers and that's all the mccanns want

by pennylane 28.09.13 9:15

marconi wrote:The McCanns had at least 3 years to prepare this libel hearing and they just brought trash witnesses into the case.
Extremely badly prepared, all of them.
How did they manage to make it?

They have made it by soliciting vast sums of money from an ill-informed public, and thus making a fortune to protect themselves.

They have made it by avoiding any in-depth questions, and by their sleazy 'tintyheaded' mouthpiece spinning the truth into oblivion.

They have made it by staying as far away from the inside of a courtroom as they can! bomb

by Woofer 28.09.13 9:22

These court proceedings must be costing an absolute fortune.

Where is this money coming from?

Surely it can`t be from the donations the public made.

by pennylane 28.09.13 9:32

Woofer wrote:These court proceedings must be costing an absolute fortune.

Where is this money coming from?

Surely it can`t be from the donations the public made.

I think they made a lot more than we know about. In their predicament, they need to stay particularly flush, because they never know what's on the horizon. That must be a considerable worry, and I think that's why they kept hustling for more ways to make money, although they are definitely not topping up the coffers well these days. The big concern is probably dipping into the offshore account. smilie

imo

by Guest 28.09.13 9:43

Pyewacket wrote:Here's an article from the Guardian, that may be of interest.

The father of missing girl Madeleine McCann has said that he wants to give evidence in a libel trial against the Portuguese detective who accused him and his wife of covering up her death.
Gerry McCann flew into Portugal for the trial, saying "I'm here for Madeleine, hopefully for justice," but conceded that he was not sure if he would be allowed to take the stand.
The McCanns are suing Gonçalo Amaral for €1.2m (£1m) in damages over a book he wrote, which their lawyers say was defamatory and helped poison public opinion against the couple. When the trial was abruptly adjourned for the day, Gerry McCann said he was disappointed, but that if he got the opportunity to come back he would take it.
Madeleine's mother, Kate, had previously attended the opening day of the trial against Amaral, who led the initial investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from a holiday resort in Praia da Luz in May 2007, shortly before her fourth birthday.
On the subject of the accusations made against against the family, Gerry McCann said on Friday: "Kate and I know better than anyone what we have experienced and what we have been through."
In his book Maddie: The Truth of the Lie, Amaral wrote that Madeleine died accidentally in her room and that the McCanns deliberately faked her disappearance in order to distract attention from her death. The McCanns strongly deny these claims and were cleared of any involvement in her disappearance when the Portuguese investigation was closed in July 2008.
A month later, Amaral, 56, who was removed from the investigation after criticising British police and has since retired from the force, published the book. In 2010 the McCanns succeeded in getting a court in Lisbon to ban it, but the decision was overruled later that year, and the book remains on sale in Portugal.
The court case has echoes of a previous trial in the UK. In March 2008 the McCanns won £550,000 in damages from Express Newspapers after what were described as "grotesque and grossly defamatory" allegations contained in more than 100 articles about their daughter's disappearance. The Express and Star newspapers ran front-page apologies to the McCanns for publishing the articles, some of which suggested the couple were involved in her death.
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, submitted a request for Gerry McCann to give evidence. The defence now has 10 days to say if they agree.

Sign up for the Guardian T

Have merged your article here with this thread Pyewacket as it's all about the same subject,