Re: McCanns Hire Car Contract

by Guest 07.03.14 15:36

Praia wrote:I am confused. I was looking again at the rental agreement for the Scenic, the customer is given as Zodiac car hire, GM is the driver, MW named driver. There is a UK address for Zodiac which on looking up seems to be part of Budget car hire. There is a voucher no which indicates a discount or a freebie.
Is it possible they did not pay for the Scenic and it's use was donated by a sympathetic firm?

When you hire a car via a broker eg Holiday Autos and pay in advance you are issued with a voucher that you give in when you pick the car up.

by TheTruthWillOut 07.03.14 15:57

kikoraton wrote:
No, it can't be that. The km figures accumulate nicely. What is wrong, is the gap between 12 April and 8 May (I don't believe a brand-new car would be left idle - they have to earn their corn!) Plus the fact that Walkden's figures of 4099 - 4945 km for the same car, don't fit in anywhere
10.03.07 New car! 11 17.03.07 End: 190 Trip : 179
18.03.07 190 25.03.07 823 633
25.03.07 823 01.04.07 945 122

02.04.07 945 12.04.07 2051 1106

08.05.07                  2051 15.05.07 2592 541
17.05.07                 2665 22.05.07 2869 204
23.05.07 2869 26.05.07 3079 210
27.05.07                 3114

Ah...seeing it like that it makes more sense.

Re: the idle time between 12.04.07 and 8.05.07, I guess there are only three reason why it would be so.

1, Car had a mechanical repair.
2, Car had accident damage repaired.
3, Or it just wasn't hired out for a month. As you say, unlikely....

I think I'll look more deeply into the details of the hire car because I find it interesting.

by TheTruthWillOut 09.03.14 13:35

If I'm reading these hire car contracts correctly then the amount of mileage put on between 1/09/07 and 23/09/07 is very suspect and I'm sure it has been discussed on this thread.

In 22 days the car did 5317 miles, or put another way, it averaged 241 miles a day. To do that sort of mileage it would have to be driven for 4.8 hrs at an average of 50mph.

This compares to doing ~2700 miles between 27/05/07 and 1/09/07, albeit the car seems to have only covered 2 kilometers between 3/07/07 and 1/09/07!?

I have to assume the PJ checked it all out.....

by TheTruthWillOut 06.04.14 13:42

Further to my above post, the McCann's left Portugal on 9/9/07 leaving only Michael Wright as a legal driver of the car. Did he remain in Portugal after 9/9/07?

I just can't imagine so much mileage being put on in so few available days when everyone had left?

by kikoraton 21.04.14 12:29

sally66 wrote:I think that's the point we're debating is that GM allegedly didn't go to play golf which for a keen golfer would be unusual if there's a decent course 5 minutes away while you're in Portugal

There was plenty of time even with crèche runs for at least 9 holes.

Not saying he did play golf but it is a reasonably strong possibility to look at and if he did why has he hid it

If Gerry made an issue of expecting to enjoy golf on the holiday, and failed to play, it was probably part of his syndrome of living dangerously by dropping hints. His history shows that he does this either to tantalise or to mislead - whichever serves his purpose at the time. I would suggest that, in this case, Gerry is leaving a trace towards his Rothley Park Golf Club friend Kenneth Walkden, who is on the PJ list of hirers of the Renault Scenic. He drove a party of golfers around the Algarve at the very end of March 2007. But the car's details did not match the car as claimed. Not the colour, nor the kilometrage. Did Walkden return on 28 April and hire the "true" Renault?

by diatribe 21.04.14 13:47

The only real worrying aspect regarding the hire car is the high mileage, because if the indications of the Cadaver dogs on the car are to be believed and the McCanns did in fact relocate their daughter's body at a subsequent stage using the car, it will be extremely unlikely that the remains will ever be discovered, thereby making any future successful prosecution all but impossible.

I don't personally subscribe to this theory, because it would have taken a lot of bottle to relocate the body, particular under the glare of publicity. Although the McCanns have more front than Selfridges, I don't believe they possess the type of nerve required to have performed this type of act. Nevertheless, the dog's indications are haunting and would explain Gerry's confidence that his daughter's body will never be discovered.

by kikoraton 21.04.14 14:06

Oh, I think if they've got nothing else - looks, common-sense etc - they've got the nerve!! It's true that the car DID cover a high distance before they relinquished it. It's possible that they chose a day when they had asked for privacy, and drove it to Point X, where Maddie's body might have been transferred to another vehicle, and so on to...... Northern Ireland? TBH, almost anything is possible. Boat, included.

by diatribe 21.04.14 14:35

kikoraton wrote: It's possible that they chose a day when they had asked for privacy, and drove it to Point X, where Maddie's body might have been transferred to another vehicle, and so on to...... Northern Ireland? TBH, almost anything is possible. Boat, included.

Once the body was successfully interred in a remote place, why would there be any need to further move it? Not only that, why would they want to utilise other cars, boats etc which would inevitably require others involvement? If there were involvement of other parties, I don't think Gerry would have such a high degree of confidence. As long as Madeleine's body was securely buried, they wouldn't care where it lay, just as long as it was never discovered.

In one of the McCann's interviews, Kate exudes confidence of being on solid ground when she ridicules her detractor's accusations of moving Madeleine's body ''We are supposed to have buried Madeleine so well that we felt the need to move her body and rebury it.'' (This is a paraphrasal)

by Guest 21.04.14 15:26

IMO relocation might have taken place, whilst the McCs themselves were abroad with media following them and family/friends were in PdL. E.g. when they were in Rome or Morocco [of all places ...] all dressed in black in a warm climate. No fact, just a hunch ...

by **tigger** 21.04.14 17:39

Châtelaine wrote:IMO relocation might have taken place, whilst the McCs themselves were abroad with media following them and family/friends were in PdL. E.g. when they were in Rome or Morocco [of all places ...] all dressed in black in a warm climate. No fact, just a hunch ...

Right with you there, from low temperature storage to permanent location. Done by a third party using the Scenic whilst the circus was taken to e.g. Morocco.

On return briefing the press they needed time to grieve. left Portugal afternoon of Sunday, there was a morning call which may be related to a barn where related items were found at a later date.

by Nina 21.04.14 18:39

tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:IMO relocation might have taken place, whilst the McCs themselves were abroad with media following them and family/friends were in PdL. E.g. when they were in Rome or Morocco [of all places ...] all dressed in black in a warm climate. No fact, just a hunch ...

Right with you there, from low temperature storage to permanent location. Done by a third party using the Scenic whilst the circus was taken to e.g. Morocco.

On return briefing the press they needed time to grieve. left Portugal afternoon of Sunday, there was a morning call which may be related to a barn where related items were found at a later date.

I could understand the dark suits to meet the Pope, though Kate didn't cover her head, but the dark suits for the Morocco trip were very out of place.

by Guest 21.04.14 18:53

Right, Nina.
And you too, Tigger.

by canada12 21.04.14 18:54

Knowing that the McCanns seize every opportunity for a reason, perhaps the dark clothing was a signal to the other people "in the know" - ie, the other Tapas group members, certain other selected people who might have been part of the charade - that the deed had, or was in the process of being, done. They knew their photos would be transmitted widely. It's classic spycraft. Messages hidden in plain sight..

by Shhh 21.04.14 19:39

Just about to delve in from pg1. A question that may have been covered, GM driving licence number doesn't appear to be the usual minx of letters & numbers e.g., mine would be SMIT012345A (if I was A Smith)

Any ideas? I did think as it says CC/DL that perhaps CC stood for credit card but there's a G in the number?

by Guest 21.04.14 21:29

Nina wrote:
tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:IMO relocation might have taken place, whilst the McCs themselves were abroad with media following them and family/friends were in PdL. E.g. when they were in Rome or Morocco [of all places ...] all dressed in black in a warm climate. No fact, just a hunch ...

Right with you there, from low temperature storage to permanent location. Done by a third party using the Scenic whilst the circus was taken to e.g. Morocco.

On return briefing the press they needed time to grieve. left Portugal afternoon of Sunday, there was a morning call which may be related to a barn where related items were found at a later date.
I could understand the dark suits to meet the Pope, though Kate didn't cover her head, but the dark suits for the Morocco trip were very out of place.

How did they come by these clothes?

by Guest 21.04.14 21:39

IIRC they went shopping somehow, somewhere, in Algarve. But I would need some Google-time for that.

by petunia 21.04.14 22:03

There certainly not clothes you would pack as part of your holiday attire Portia..and after having your Daughter abducted, buying any sort of clothing would be the last thing on your mind....Unless

by TheTruthWillOut 21.04.14 22:08

Shhh wrote:Just about to delve in from pg1. A question that may have been covered, GM driving licence number doesn't appear to be the usual minx of letters & numbers e.g., mine would be SMIT012345A (if I was A Smith)

Any ideas? I did think as it says CC/DL that perhaps CC stood for credit card but there's a G in the number?

Looking at the other Budget contracts it looks like it is random depending on who is booking out at the time!

This one is done "correctly":

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This one just like Gerry's and Michael's:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by diatribe 22.04.14 14:19

tigger wrote:

Right with you there, from low temperature storage to permanent location. Done by a third party using the Scenic whilst the circus was taken to e.g. Morocco.

But that would mean that this third party would know where the body was buried. With all the £millions that have been on offer and doubtless offers of immunity from prosecution over the past 7 yrs. not being claimed, I think it highly unlikely that anyone other than the McCanns has knowledge of where their daughter is buried.

There is no honour amongst thieves and even less among 'straight' people under pressure or greed. I wonder how much the german press would pay for evidence of where Madeleine's remains were interred, particularly if it included evidence of political involvement in a cover up. I think whatever other conclusions are drawn in relation to this case, the one thing we can almost certainly be sure of is that there's only two living beings on this planet who know for certain that Madeleine is dead and where she is buried.

by Julchen 22.04.14 15:16

TheTruthWillOut wrote:If I'm reading these hire car contracts correctly then the amount of mileage put on between 1/09/07 and 23/09/07 is very suspect and I'm sure it has been discussed on this thread.

In 22 days the car did 5317 miles, or put another way, it averaged 241 miles a day. To do that sort of mileage it would have to be driven for 4.8 hrs at an average of 50mph.

This compares to doing ~2700 miles between 27/05/07 and 1/09/07, albeit the car seems to have only covered 2 kilometers between 3/07/07 and 1/09/07!?

I have to assume the PJ checked it all out.....

Are you sure, you are talking about miles not kilometres? Only a question since I just checked on Google the distance between PDL and the McC home. Google comes up with ca. 2600-2650 km one way, which would result in round about 5200 (plus a bit more depending on where you start the journey and end it). In other words: 5300km and about 2-3 days of tuff driving. I have done similar mileage and know that it is possible if you are an experienced long distance driver. With hardly any border controls...just an idea.

Jule

by TheTruthWillOut 22.04.14 18:57

@Julchen

I believe the mileage between the 1st Sept and 22nd Sept is correct (5329 miles to be exact or from 5866 km to 14443 km). As you and many others have noted, a round trip to the UK would account nicely for most of the additional mileage, if correct.

Problem is the McCanns', and therefore friends/family, had all left by the 9th September......So who drove the Scenic? I believe John Geraghty offered to store the Scenic and fits the description of the man that returned the car on the 22nd of September.....Maybe someone should ask him?

by Julchen 22.04.14 20:51

The one thing I don't get is: why should a continental car count in miles rather than kilometres? I remeber the cost and problems I had when I wanted to register my German car over here. I had to have my clock changed from km to miles. I am sure Portugal doesn't do miles.

Jule
(and sorry to have mentioned a thing that seems to have been mentioned before)

by Guest 22.04.14 20:57

From the files, it's not sure WHEN the major part of mileage [in km! ] was made as for quite some time, obviously, the mileage wasn't checked between contract renewals.

by TheTruthWillOut 22.04.14 21:11

Julchen wrote:The one thing I don't get is: why should a continental car count in miles rather than kilometres? I remeber the cost and problems I had when I wanted to register my German car over here. I had to have my clock changed from km to miles. I am sure Portugal doesn't do miles.

Jule
(and sorry to have mentioned a thing that seems to have been mentioned before)

Sorry Julchen, the car I'm sure is/was set to record in kilometres! I just converted the figures to miles! Though on a lot of modern cars you can change it to display in either.

by Shhh 22.04.14 21:56

tigger wrote:Imo there were a number of cars available although I'm not saying they were used by the McCanns.

The Gorrod's car was available as from the 29th?
Murats' car was available as from the 1st.
Malinka's car was available as from the ??
An unknown car was available to ROB and possibly someone else (see above) on the ping.

Then there is the car the friends of the Camerons lent them as from the 5th of May. There was no mention when this car had to be returned and even so it was a 'good idea' Cameron says to be a named driver on the car Gerry hired. But that's a long time.
The Camerons did stay an appreciable time I believe. But just weren't on the named driver list. Neither was Kate.
There might be a possibility that that was the car ROB used on the 7th.

Who's car was burnt out? "fala"