Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[friedtomatoes]

monkeymind i hardly think some throw away comments on daybreak at only a quarter of the investigation in and with no basis in fact but only opinion will have any grave substance in any trial in the future, there has been a huge plethora of police and other commentators on sofas for 5 years spouting rubbish and opinions, none of it matters, especially if any trial happens in portugal, its three judges, how can this ever become a trial in the uk? could it?

Friedtomatoes,

Well, that's quite an erudite statement from someone who has described themself as a pleb is it not?

Did I speak of a trial in the UK? Think not.

This man - Redwood - is the lead investigator, the man responsible for one of the highest profile enquiries in the UK in two decades or more, and he publicly expresses 5 years after the fact that he believes it was a crime commited by a stranger thus exonerating entirely the T9. And you, would like to portray what for about three days has been broadcast upon every major news network, radio, and national newspaper as......

...wait for it......

"some throw away comment."

You know damn well it's relevant. You ain't gonna trash the obvious that easily, but tell you what....

I'm finished with you.

Your post of 4.52 today was talking about a trial, perhaps I read too much into it. I can be erudite by the way, and speak with my intuition and informed opinion but still be a PLEB in matters of politics, shenanigans, cover ups, the dodgy media and that whole sagas that surround THOSE things. Sorry you are done with me, I never meant to antagonise you with anything, I found your posts very good, was just posting and speaking my mind, oh well. As for Redwood, I honestly dont know if he is part of a whitewash though it does SEEM that way, I posted that I dont believe that 30 sy detectives would go along with it.And if they did, the question remains WHY. The answer to that question may sheld light on this digusting saga. I think he is through no fault of his own in the middle of a precarious situation, the last I would expect to hear from him is anything negative in public against the abudction scenario. I do think though that his presence on tv via panorama and itv morning shows is odd. There was no need for it.

[friedtomatoes]

It seems to be a stalemate situation. The SY wants the case reopened on the basis that they think Madeleine is alive, the McCanns say they want the case reopened and the PJ want the case reopened. But the Portuguese AG say there's no new evidence. There is nothing to stop the McCanns asking for the case to be reopened and providing the new evidence in the form of a reconstruction. This would have saved £2million of taxpayers money and saved a year of searching time. Yet the McCanns won't ask for the process to be reopened.

The ball is in the McCanns court and they are wasting valuable search time by not cooperating. They could have done this nearly five years ago and found Madeleine by now. What kind of parents would waste such valuable time when it was in their power to do something? Instead of searching properly for Madeleine their priority was to instruct libel lawyers!

It does seem like they did everything to impede the search right from the get go. That can only mean one thing. It seems their strategy was to destroy the police investigation. Very wierd people IMO.

Perhaps we're forgetting the attitude of the McCanns:
They told their story to the police - the police should have acted ONLY on their story.
This was Portugal - they were doctors, they had important friends - they had massive publicity.
They changed their story in almost every statement. Specifically about which doors they used.
The tapas 7 backed it up and were surprised that they weren't allowed to take their (3rd !) typewritten crib sheet with them to make their statements.
None of the above struck them as important - all they needed to do is tell the police what happened, activate the protective cover and sit back to see the plaudits and money roll in.
They took to the celebrity lifestyle like ducks to water. And then some!
'Rome is preparing itself for our visit' - on visiting the Pope.
'There will be riots in the UK' - on being made arguidos.

There is a name for such a condition - quite rare to have both husband and wife suffering from the same complex.

I think most free thinking half intelligent people know there is something rotten in the state of denmark with this case. It has been clear from the first minute.

[Spaniel]

This doesn't seem the right place to put this, but here goes.

Arh, don't waste time with my ramblings, scroll down to below the line. The interview is here.

http://www.red24.com/press/TimesOnline_4.9.07.pdf

"With the possible exception of their blessing by the Pope at the Vatican, which was the brainwave of a tabloid newspaper."[/font">

WHAT?


Well well well. I was about to bore you all for ever after with what I'd picked from the Tmes article until that little beauty sprung out at me.
So it was Rupert Murdoch who arranged the Papal visit. The infamous Papal Knight. Not a Catholic, but puts money their way.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/rupert-murdochs-papal-knighthood-questioned-as-investigation-continues/
They were all in cahoots from the off. This Times interview was dated September 4th 2007.
I wonder whether G. McCann's vision of a tunnel of light had anything to do with a phone call from News International?

[Lady-Heather]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Woofer, I agree.
Uk are not risking relations FOR the McCanns.
This has always been my opinion, but the more I read, the more garbage articles appearing I am more sure than ever;
This goes right to the top. Government, MP's, ex PM's - maybe even 'higher' than that.
I firmly, totally 100% believe that Katerina Gaspar's observations are the reason at the black cancerous heart at the middle of all this.
Very nasty, corrupt, perverted movers and shakers in this country.
If you google the words 'Gordon Brown, p*******le', Dunblane' - you'll see what I mean.
I've seen nothing yet to sway me another way. I believe a 'prominent' was in PdL at the time - the fabled 'T10', possibly - hot-footed it away. Likely as not, they and their filthy cronies are the ones being protected, imho.

Poor, poor Madeleine.

This is at the essence of everything in this case IMO. Looking at the situation in its entirety, the gestalt view, the clues are there as to why the situation (cock-up:) exists at all. Who else was there that week? Who was watching them? Why?

Mi6 agents.
Military satellites.

Then Madeleine was 'abducted'. Those pesky McCanns. That's all we need. Time for damage limitation - send everyone we have: foreign office, media monitoring, Bell Pottinger, lawyers. More when needed. It's a matter of national security (Gordon Brown, 2007).

The McCanns are not the ones being protected IMO.

[friedtomatoes]

Wouldnt surprise me if murdochs machine was behind all this. Then again he is not the only news mogul in the country. I am a pleb in these cases though.

What is plain to see is that this case is NOT just a missing child case. With only Police and relevant parties involved.

[Ribisl]

Squeak!!!
I think I might change my profile pic to that he he

I was rather fond of Beetroot myself

P.S. Sorry Candyfloss for being totally off-topic and irrelevant

[Smokeandmirrors]

100% LadyHeather. The McCanns are being protected, but only to take the heat off a bigger picture IMO. Dots join, they may be on the periphery but my money is on another 2 elements within the group connected outwards to the bigger picture, too many coincidences.

[friedtomatoes]

100% LadyHeather. The McCanns are being protected, but only to take the heat off a bigger picture IMO. Dots join, they may be on the periphery but my money is on another 2 elements within the group connected outwards to the bigger picture, too many coincidences.

Can you flesh this out a bit? The Mccanns are being protected from what exactly and for what reason? And they are going along with a lie because?

[Tony Bennett]

So it was Rupert Murdoch who arranged the Papal visit. The infamous Papal Knight. Not a Catholic, but puts money their way.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/rupert-murdochs-papal-knighthood-questioned-as-investigation-continues/
They were all in cahoots from the off. This Times interview was dated September 4th 2007.I wonder whether G. McCann's vision of a tunnel of light had anything to do with a phone call from News International?

The article says that the McCanns' visit to the Pope was 'the brainwave of a tabloid newspaper'. That's very interesting given there exists a video of a TV interview with Clarence Mitchell (somwhere on the net) in which he openly boasts of his having 'arranged' the visit to the Pope, via the then Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor (who, it may remembered, broke British law by failing to report to Sussex Police sexual abuse crimes against children by one of his priests. He was not prosecuted for that crime).

These two claims are not mutually exclusive...

Rupert Murdoch is a 'Papal Knight'...

Clarence Mitchell, after working for the McCanns, got a job with Rupert Murdoch's son-on-law, Matthew Freud (whose father Clement Freud entertained the McCanns royally at his Algarve villa...

and Mitchell had close ties to the Sun and News International all along, and no doubt had good links with the Archbishop.

+++++++

One sentence in that Times (also a Murdoch paper) report was, shall we say, contentious at the time, namely this rather absurd one:

Yet the story has only one fact: on the evening of 3 May, a three-year-old child,. Madeleine McCann, disappeared from the bedroom where she slept.

[Guest]

Saturday, 28 April 2012

Schrödinger's Cat

You may call me naive... when it was revealed that Kate McCann would release a paperback version of her book 'Madeleine' with an added chapter about the Scotland Yard review, I really did wonder just how she would manage it. Especially when it was said that the British review would be conducted in utmost secrecy with no final report even being made public.


Lead investigator DCI Andy Redwood originally stated that the open minded investigation followed two leads - one that Madeleine was alive and secondly that she was sadly dead. This week however, we appear get a good idea of how things are panning out, ready for the 5 year anniversary and paperback book launch.


Several sources, including Robert Murat, Alan Johnson and Isabel Duarte, enabled Panorama to come across as an all out denigration of the Portuguese people and its police force. Extremely degrading towards Portugal, the show pointed the finger of guilt at everyone except the main players... Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends.


Despite the Portuguese having primacy in the case and Scotland Yard only being one quarter of the way through their file, we now have claims that Madeleine is alive, having been subjected to a criminal act by a stranger. And even more bizarrely, this respected Detective Chief Inspector is making these claims whilst doing the sofa run on morning television. There's something just not right about that... We have also been proffered an image of what Madeleine may look like at the age of nine and a possible 195 historical investigative teasers.




The Scotland Yard review is made up of 3 elements... information from the Portuguese and British police in addition to the array of private investigators hired by the McCanns. Authorities in Portugal have publicly rejected the media led request to reopen the case, saying it would only be reopened on the basis of new evidence from a "serious, pertinent and authoritative" source. Authoritative source... can we assume that these 195 old leads have come from the unauthoritative files of the private investigators? What a strange place for a police force to start a review. Despite the AG stating that these historical 'leads' are quite obviously not new, the alive drive continues.


As the Portuguese are not willing to reopen the case using old evidence, I would appeal to DCI Redwood to reveal every one of these 195 leads and identify which part of the investigation they have arisen, in the same way that he has unveiled the image of a 9 year old Madeleine. The public are a great help in many investigations, why not this one? It would also quash the wave of accusations and rumours that a whitewash is in full flow.


Amongst many questions still being asked, the review has declared a live child yet failed to explain the scent of death found in many related places by a British cadaver dog. And because of these very serious indications, the review should explain just how they have reached the conclusion of a live child being taken from the apartment. The analysis of a sporadic, jotted down timeline really doesn't wash.

There is persistent chatter that the McCanns have the right to request the reopening of the case in Portugal themselves at no cost, but no-one in the British media has ever questioned this. This current review has so far cost the taxpayer £2m, and is only one quarter along - are we foreseeing a final bill of £8m three years on with diplomatic relations with Portugal on a downward spiral?

These questions (or answers) will obviously not make it into the additional chapter of the paperback but fortunately for the McCanns, Scotland Yard have astonishingly given them plenty of perfectly timed material to use when they "speak publicly next week". Not to mention the money and headline grabbing media. The begging bowl may be left in the pantry this time around, but plenty can be made from the book.


**With thanks to SteelMagnolia for the links and Hideho for the videos. Please view Hideho's video channel on Youtube by clicking here.
Posted by Me, Myself, Moi... at 16:27

http://thepottingshedder.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/schrodingers-cat.html

[russiandoll]

The remit states it will be open and transparent. They must be held to that. Is SY answerable to the Home Secretary?
SY should simply have said nothing at all at this stage, or provided some evidence of their evidence.

[friedtomatoes]

I can only add that latest computer generated image of what Madeleine might look like now is pretty lame IMO. How on earth did they think her fringe would be coffed over like that, making her look half bald, they have made her look more like a boy than a girl too. Madeleine was a very pretty girl, the new image looks nothing like her.

Still, they havent made her look 21 or anything, the sunkissed Maddie images of her at SIX that made her look like 16 were bizarre enoughh, who are these idiots?

[monkey mind]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

[Pershing36]

This forum is starting to concern me. Whatever your aspect on the the case we have to take the rough with the smooth.

It seems to me that both the UK and the Portuguese Governments could look silly, whatever is the truth of the case.

If it pans out it was an abductor, we have only the PJ to go by.

[friedtomatoes]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

You didnt offend me, I was just surprised that you tried to make out I was some kind of imposter, I am not, I firmly 100% believe the Mccanns have lied through their teeth, it is plain to see and read theyhave done so, the only partthat confuses me is if they are acting alone and if not why

[nomendelta]

This forum is starting to concern me. Whatever your aspect on the the case we have to take the rough with the smooth.

It seems to me that both the UK and the Portuguese Governments could look silly, whatever is the truth of the case.

If it pans out it was an abductor, we have only the PJ to go by.

You have to understand that all most of us want here is the truth and justice for Maddie. Something stinks very badly about this case and the treatment-with-kid-gloves enjoyed by the McCanns. The SY review was something many of us hoped would lead to the truth and, eventually, justice for Maddie. It seems, certainly if Redwood is any kind of indicator as to the review, that the McCanns are still enjoying their special treatment so that's the frustration for most of us.

I'd LOVE to think that this is all some kind of clever ploy by SY/Redwood to lull the McCanns into a false sense of security. Alas I just can't get to grips with that notion simply because Redwood didn't have to comment at all and certainly not with specifics discussing his belief that she is still alive. It plays straight into Team McCanns hands and I think the only reason it does is simply that the review is to be a whitewash. If I'm wrong, great. I just don't think I am.

[IAmNotMerylStreep]

If it hadn't been for the dogs...........

[russiandoll]

Monkeymind your posts are so well thought out and written it was a shock to hear you being so abrupt with another member, I saw where you were coming from you know.. for the leader of this investigation to be deemed to have used a throwaway remark in a case of such gravity and for it not be seen as disgraceful is awful, I think though that the word was used by the poster without a lot of thought...I understood the wider point he was making.
As for a slap......not really. let us just admit we are all exasperated and concerned and wondering what the hell is going on.
It is saddening, infuriating and profoundly depressing.

[friedtomatoes]

This forum is starting to concern me. Whatever your aspect on the the case we have to take the rough with the smooth.

It seems to me that both the UK and the Portuguese Governments could look silly, whatever is the truth of the case.

If it pans out it was an abductor, we have only the PJ to go by.

You have to understand that all most of us want here is the truth and justice for Maddie. Something stinks very badly about this case and the treatment-with-kid-gloves enjoyed by the McCanns. The SY review was something many of us hoped would lead to the truth and, eventually, justice for Maddie. It seems, certainly if Redwood is any kind of indicator as to the review, that the McCanns are still enjoying their special treatment so that's the frustration for most of us.

I'd LOVE to think that this is all some kind of clever ploy by SY/Redwood to lull the McCanns into a false sense of security. Alas I just can't get to grips with that notion simply because Redwood didn't have to comment at all and certainly not with specifics discussing his belief that she is still alive. It plays straight into Team McCanns hands and I think the only reason it does is simply that the review is to be a whitewash. If I'm wrong, great. I just don't think I am.

who has power over sy
iirc they report to the queen

[monkey mind]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

You didnt offend me, I was just surprised that you tried to make out I was some kind of imposter, I am not, I firmly 100% believe the Mccanns have lied through their teeth, it is plain to see and read theyhave done so, the only partthat confuses me is if they are acting alone and if not why

It's not my intention to offend anybody, never has nor ever will be. Thank you for not being offended at my exasperation. You have my genuine apologies, I often forget people do not think the same way I do. Great last question.

[Trigger1985]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

You didnt offend me, I was just surprised that you tried to make out I was some kind of imposter, I am not, I firmly 100% believe the Mccanns have lied through their teeth, it is plain to see and read theyhave done so, the only partthat confuses me is if they are acting alone and if not why

You are confused as to whether they are acting alone? And you say you have followed this tragedy for years? I'm sorry but you make no sense at all, sorry for any offence. A child's life is at stake here, and clearly the McCann family have had heeps of help from many many connected people, some at the highest levels. May I ask why you are confused?

[Trigger1985]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

You didnt offend me, I was just surprised that you tried to make out I was some kind of imposter, I am not, I firmly 100% believe the Mccanns have lied through their teeth, it is plain to see and read theyhave done so, the only partthat confuses me is if they are acting alone and if not why

It's not my intention to offend anybody, never has nor ever will be. Thank you for not being offended at my exasperation. You have my genuine apologies, I often forget people do not think the same way I do. Great last question.

The answer to the last question is obvious. It is self-preservation. There is clearly something going on that the powers that be do not want to be made public. Take a detailed look at the Dutroux affair in Belgium and you may get somewhere. Not you Monkeymind, but concerned people in general. Take a look at the Casa case in Portugal, the Haute case in Jersey, Kincora, North Wales, Dunblane. All have been expertly covered up. This tragedy is no different.

[friedtomatoes]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

You didnt offend me, I was just surprised that you tried to make out I was some kind of imposter, I am not, I firmly 100% believe the Mccanns have lied through their teeth, it is plain to see and read theyhave done so, the only partthat confuses me is if they are acting alone and if not why

You are confused as to whether they are acting alone? And you say you have followed this tragedy for years? I'm sorry but you make no sense at all, sorry for any offence. A child's life is at stake here, and clearly the McCann family have had heeps of help from many many connected people, some at the highest levels. May I ask why you are confused?

i dont know is that ok?

[Trigger1985]

This forum is starting to concern me. Whatever your aspect on the the case we have to take the rough with the smooth.

It seems to me that both the UK and the Portuguese Governments could look silly, whatever is the truth of the case.

If it pans out it was an abductor, we have only the PJ to go by.

You have to understand that all most of us want here is the truth and justice for Maddie. Something stinks very badly about this case and the treatment-with-kid-gloves enjoyed by the McCanns. The SY review was something many of us hoped would lead to the truth and, eventually, justice for Maddie. It seems, certainly if Redwood is any kind of indicator as to the review, that the McCanns are still enjoying their special treatment so that's the frustration for most of us.

I'd LOVE to think that this is all some kind of clever ploy by SY/Redwood to lull the McCanns into a false sense of security. Alas I just can't get to grips with that notion simply because Redwood didn't have to comment at all and certainly not with specifics discussing his belief that she is still alive. It plays straight into Team McCanns hands and I think the only reason it does is simply that the review is to be a whitewash. If I'm wrong, great. I just don't think I am.

who has power over sy
iirc they report to the queen

They were commissioned by David Cameron. Therefore they report to the British Government. The Queen is just a figurehead, with no real power. The Queen spoke of Dark Forces after the public demanded she return from Balmoral to Buckingham Palace following Diana's death. It is a great pity the public are not throwing hundreds of thousands of flowers at Rothley.

[friedtomatoes]

no tirgger u will find the police do NOT report to the government