Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[TheTruthWillOut]

After four bruising years, during which they received almost no police guidance and were forced to rely on PR experts for help in negotiating both the enormous media interest and the investigation, they were last year assigned a Met police family liaison officer. This officer keeps them up to date with developments, out of the public eye.

Weren't they assigned a Police Liason Officer right at the start when Madeleine disappeared, but dispensed with them?

I maybe remembering wrong here, but seem to recall a female LO was getting suspicious of Kate in PDL and was quickly asked to leave?

Edit: if you scroll down a bit to the article "The British police officers " it says the McCanns dismissed two FLOs on the 14th May http://www.mccannfiles.com/id174.html

[Guest]

Can anyone ever remember if a Police Officer in charge of a case has appeared on breakfast sofas and various programmes giving interviews whilst in the middle of a case, or should I say on 25% into it. Yes, they occasionally give press conferences to update or appeal for information, but have they ever appeared on Breakfast sofas etc., before. Does anyone know if this has happened before

[rainbow-fairy]

I'm trying here. I'm trying sooo hard to not swear, not scream BUT
How in the name of all that is holy can they interpret Gonçalo Amaral as 'siding with the McCanns'?!?!!! Unless he has done a spectacular U-turn, YES he wants the case re-opened - with the original conclusion DEATH AND CONCEALMENT and SIMULATION OF ABDUCTION.
They are even spinning the 'reconstruction' he says is needed - and we all know why - as 'a Crimewatch style re-enactment' - er, WTF?

We have two possibilities here, I think;
1) Portugal are VERY close to having more evidence to re-open, and will formally request the T9 attendance (hence the seeming desperate spinning). OR

2) Gonçalo has rolled over, piddled at the feet of Kate and Gerry in submission and will fight their corner too! Will we see a public burning of his obviously-trash book and a symbolic cleansing/baptism into the Faith of McCann? Perhaps on the beach near the Rocha Negra?

Truly feel quite ill.

[Pershing36]

Personally I wouldn't blame him if the answer was number 2.

Maybe he just wants to get on with his life and is tired of fighting an up hill battle.

[Guest]

I go with No.1 rainbow-fairy. The PJ started their own review before SY, they suddenly were brought in after the letter in the Sun from K & G, backed by NI, someone obviously had a whiff of what was happening. I think all this is to pre-empt what the PJ might come up with in the near future.

[Woofer]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

[rainbow-fairy]

I go with No.1 rainbow-fairy. The PJ started their own review before SY, they suddenly were brought in after the letter in the Sun from K & G, backed by NI, someone obviously had a whiff of what was happening. I think all this is to pre-empt what the PJ might come up with in the near future.

Agreed, candyfloss. I smell fear, I think the PJ are scenting blood (just like dear Keela).
If we think about this, remember all the excitement last month when it looked like PT may re-open?
Now, IIRC, it was emphatically stated that SY would NOT be commenting publicly until the Review was complete, etc etc etc. Now, within just a MONTH of the re-opening-that-wasnt from Portugal's end, we have;

McPanorama
Redwood on sofa's!

Probably the nastiest, most libellous, slanderous xenophobic articles about the PJ 'botched' investigation

A pathetic convoluted 'reason' why Yellow-belly Redwood 'believes Maddie to be possibly alive'

A new photo...


Yes, I believe I smell good old fashioned fear.

ETA: just a thought: could all this 'McCanns innocent' business be 1)to avoid libel action 2)so as not to cause unfair trial?
It seems Kate Garraway and some others are making discontented comments too.
For what its worth, Bilton's face and body language - he aint fooled but he has a job to do and following orders...

[rainbow-fairy]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Woofer, I agree.
Uk are not risking relations FOR the McCanns.
This has always been my opinion, but the more I read, the more garbage articles appearing I am more sure than ever;
This goes right to the top. Government, MP's, ex PM's - maybe even 'higher' than that.
I firmly, totally 100% believe that Katerina Gaspar's observations are the reason at the black cancerous heart at the middle of all this.
Very nasty, corrupt, perverted movers and shakers in this country.
If you google the words 'Gordon Brown, p*******le', Dunblane' - you'll see what I mean.
I've seen nothing yet to sway me another way. I believe a 'prominent' was in PdL at the time - the fabled 'T10', possibly - hot-footed it away. Likely as not, they and their filthy cronies are the ones being protected, imho.

Poor, poor Madeleine.

[friedtomatoes]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Can you imagine how many people would have egg on their faces if it was ever proved the parents were involved? I think the list is very long. But I personally don't believe there is any danger of a diplomatic war over this, the papers do exagerrate things so much, so much of the time.

[Guest]

Weren't they assigned a Police Liason Officer right at the start when Madeleine disappeared, but dispensed with them?

Sharon Matthews was arrested by her Family Liaison Officer !

I have now found this from Goncalo's book re the Liaison Officer, don't know if it is in KM's book,

On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, were, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.

Curiously, the English do not consider it expedient to disclose the incident and the PJ are not informed. Myself, I only learn of it indirectly. Finally, a solution is found quickly: the two men are replaced by a Portuguese man who speaks fluent English

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1713-chapter-6-the-arrival-of-the-english-police

[Woofer]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Woofer, I agree.
Uk are not risking relations FOR the McCanns.
This has always been my opinion, but the more I read, the more garbage articles appearing I am more sure than ever;
This goes right to the top. Government, MP's, ex PM's - maybe even 'higher' than that.
I firmly, totally 100% believe that Katerina Gaspar's observations are the reason at the black cancerous heart at the middle of all this.
Very nasty, corrupt, perverted movers and shakers in this country.
If you google the words 'Gordon Brown, p*******le', Dunblane' - you'll see what I mean.
I've seen nothing yet to sway me another way. I believe a 'prominent' was in PdL at the time - the fabled 'T10', possibly - hot-footed it away. Likely as not, they and their filthy cronies are the ones being protected, imho.

Poor, poor Madeleine.

Yes, it`s what I`ve thought in recent years (and have seen all the stuff about ex PMs, Dunblane, Operation Ore, Holly Grieg etc.. including one nicknamed M*****a who KM boasts about being a friend who supposedly phoned them soon after the event, one can just imagine why. Not sure about a `T10` as the whole OC would probably know about him and would have to be silenced. Perhaps its worth looking who left government around the time Maddie went missing.

[Woofer]

Weren't they assigned a Police Liason Officer right at the start when Madeleine disappeared, but dispensed with them?

Sharon Matthews was arrested by her Family Liaison Officer !

I have now found this from Goncalo's book re the Liaison Officer, don't know if it is in KM's book,

On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, were, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.

Curiously, the English do not consider it expedient to disclose the incident and the PJ are not informed. Myself, I only learn of it indirectly. Finally, a solution is found quickly: the two men are replaced by a Portuguese man who speaks fluent English

[url=https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1713-chapter-6-the-arrival-of-the-english-police

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1713-chapter-6-the-arrival-of-the-english-police[/quote[/url]]



Would an experienced FLO really ask KM where her daughter is? This is surely fabricated by KM as the FLOs were asking questions she didn`t like.

[friedtomatoes]

There was a resignation very shortly after, the name escapes me. I will google it and edit this post.

I personally cannot join any of the dots in this theory though.

[Pershing36]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Can you imagine how many people would have egg on their faces if it was ever proved the parents were involved? I think the list is very long. But I personally don't believe there is any danger of a diplomatic war over this, the papers do exagerrate things so much, so much of the time.

Exactly, this is why I firmly believe the powers that be in charge of the country will make sure the SY investigation will never lead in this direction.

[Woofer]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Can you imagine how many people would have egg on their faces if it was ever proved the parents were involved? I think the list is very long. But I personally don't believe there is any danger of a diplomatic war over this, the papers do exagerrate things so much, so much of the time.

Yes one could say that, but in defence all they have to say is that they felt sorry for the couple and believed them. And we all know the power of empathy.

[Woofer]

There was a resignation very shortly after, the name escapes me. I will google it and edit this post.

I personally cannot join any of the dots in this theory though.

Yes, a very important one was announced on the 10th May 2007 !!!!

[friedtomatoes]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Can you imagine how many people would have egg on their faces if it was ever proved the parents were involved? I think the list is very long. But I personally don't believe there is any danger of a diplomatic war over this, the papers do exagerrate things so much, so much of the time.

Exactly, this is why I firmly believe the powers that be in charge of the country will make sure the SY investigation will never lead in this direction.

They would cover up the death of a child with the parents implicated for this? Why? The slating of the Portuguese began very early on by the media, almost immediately and IIRC the Mccanns initiated it. There are certain elements in this case which suggest there was a strategy and planning from the off. It certainly doesn't seem to be a normal missing child case by any stretch.

Who do Scotland Yard report to? IIRC it is not the government. I can't remember where I read this.

[friedtomatoes]

There was a resignation very shortly after, the name escapes me. I will google it and edit this post.

I personally cannot join any of the dots in this theory though.

Yes, a very important one was announced on the 10th May 2007 !!!!

That was Tony Blair, but I am thinking of someone else, an older man, I just can't remember and my google search proved useless.

[Pershing36]

One thing is for sure from what I am reading elsewhere is that a lot of people now think the Police are sounding increasingly incompetent, as in beginning to be ridiculous.

Even those who firmly believe the abduction, many think it is very unlikely that she could still be alive. Especially given the world wide publicity, (of course we all want her alive, well and returned home unharmed) surely that in itself would have panicked an abductor. Again, in cases of abduction with children how many are returned home alive? Especially given the time scale.

Although I don't think this review is going to solve this case (abduction or not), I think it is going to change the public's view of this case and the way the UK have dealt with it.

[friedtomatoes]

One thing is for sure from what I am reading elsewhere is that a lot of people now think the Police are sounding increasingly incompetent, as in beginning to be ridiculous.

Even those who firmly believe the abduction, many think it is very unlikely that she could still be alive. Especially given the world wide publicity, (of course we all want her alive, well and returned home unharmed) surely that in itself would have panicked an abductor. Again, in cases of abduction with children how many are returned home alive? Especially given the time scale.

Although I don't think this review is going to solve this case (abduction or not), I think it is going to change the public's view of this case and the way the UK have dealt with it.

Andy Redwood has said his aim is to solve it. He has solved cold cases before from what I have read. I refuse to believe that 30 odd very experienced SY officers are all going to agree to some whitewash of the truth. I don't think Cameron and May would agree with that either. Then again, what do I know.

[Pershing36]

Andy Redwood has said his aim is to solve it. He has solved cold cases before from what I have read. I refuse to believe that 30 odd very experienced SY officers are all going to agree to some whitewash of the truth. I don't think Cameron and May would agree with that either. Then again, what do I know.

See this is what I want to believe. But when you remember cases like Dr David Kelly and that new one where the Mi6 agent is suppose to have locked himself in a sports bag it doesn't give you much faith.

Saying that it could be that Redwood is only making this statement as the evidence they have read through so far doesn't lead them to anything other than an abduction and no sign of her being dead. When you think of it that makes sense too, there is no body and reviewing only 25% of the material surely wouldn't be able to tell you much, let alone start new theories.

[friedtomatoes]

Andy Redwood has said his aim is to solve it. He has solved cold cases before from what I have read. I refuse to believe that 30 odd very experienced SY officers are all going to agree to some whitewash of the truth. I don't think Cameron and May would agree with that either. Then again, what do I know.

See this is what I want to believe. But when you remember cases like Dr David Kelly and that new one where the Mi6 agent is suppose to have locked himself in a sports bag it doesn't give you much faith.

Saying that it could be that Redwood is only making this statement as the evidence they have read through so far doesn't lead them to anything other than an abduction and no sign of her being dead. When you think of it that makes sense too, there is no body and reviewing only 25% of the material surely wouldn't be able to tell you much, let alone start new theories.

David Kelly and the MI6 agent might have had to be silenced, for political reasons, how does the disappearance of a three yr old figure into stuff like that?

[russiandoll]

I have just finished reading this thread. It is evident that there are several extremely knowledgeable individuals making their points of view, but one clearly notices that the signal to noise ratio is out of kilter. Clearly knowledgeable individuals are putting themselves on the line vis a vis their own experiences and research, yet I find the valuable and believable messages drowned out by people that blatantly state that they are "plebs" and do not understand anything. I would put to Mr Bennet that he has a forum that has clearly been infiltrated by malefactors. As an astute observer said yesterday, be careful of these constantly questioning "ingenues" as they are simply here to act as agent provacateurs and consequently provide ammunition for later attack. There are also one or two contributors that are clearly ex or current police, commenting favourably on the Scotland Yard enquiry. From my experience, once a spy, always a spy. With a few honorable exceptions. I am perturbed by candyfloss, who has apparently only now had an epiphany ref: Scotland Yard. Monkey Mind clearly knows what he is talking about, but all these dolls after dolls after dolls keep on dragging the debate back to zero. And tomatoes. The whole world is watching this thread, and people like Juliet, NoFuleMe, are being ignored and drowned out by either stupidity, or malice.

You are entitled to your opinions, however you are insulting to candyfloss and I gather from the dolls and dolls you refer to me and the tomatoes is a ref to friedtomatoes. I am neither stupid nor malicious, I believe in debate and as am trained to begin any research by giving the benefit of the doubt. And to be skeptical. How do you know some of us are not taking a role of devil's advocate in this discussion in order to further debate?

Just because a few of us refrain at this early stage from TOTAL cynicism does not mean we are naive or stupid, there would be almost zero debate on this thread if we all thought along the same lines, just numerous posts denigrating our police force. Fancy one so intelligent as you to disallow a difference of opinion. It is a discussion forum for reasoned debate.
Whoever you are, you appear to think you have a total handle on events and are in possession of a superior intellect. You come across as arrogant in the extreme and I think you have added nothing to this thread. Some here have researched this case for years and recent events have been discouraging, perhaps it is not such a bad thing that some here are trying to retain a positive outlook.
btw I am neither stupid nor naive. I am not ex police either, but a highly- trained analyst and linguist.
over and out ! [You would have been better to insult me with the Russian part of my user name btw, as I am more Russian than doll-like.]
correction of your post. "agent "is a singular and as you were ref to more than one person on the forum, it needs an "s" at the end.
provacateurs is mis-spelt, although you got the plural ending for the adjective here...spelling is provocateurs. so you should have written AGENTS PROVOCATEURS. Nothing more annoying than people trying to show how clever they are by using foreign phrases.....incorrectly. No reply needed as I will not be communicating with you further.
B - decent effort but could do better
Do svidaniya!

[Pershing36]

David Kelly and the MI6 agent might have had to be silenced, for political reasons, how does the disappearance of a three yr old figure into stuff like that?

It became political very quickly.


Somebody could end up with egg on their face. If TM are truthful then it will be the PJ, if it is proved otherwise then SY.

Isn't the safest just to find nothing?

[friedtomatoes]

Colobomian, what did I do? I didn't understand your ref to me.
! Please either pm me or explain. My position is very clear, I do not believe the Mccanns story, end of. I do believe the whole sorry saga is a web of lies. Further than that, I do not know or have a strong view of what actually happened.

eta if your ref to calling oneself a pleb to hide something wasdirected at me then you are on a losing track, it is true i do not understand or care to the evil machinations of govt, police corruption and all sorts of nasty business, the media included, i have no agenda but my own informed and at times plebish opinions, take your argument up with people in power