Madeleine's health records

NickE what are you looking at in the photo?

When I look at that photo, every time and again, I think, she thinks ... "here we go again ..." :-(

Dantezbu I think nickE has circled the low set ears and a lump on neck?

Tigger every child is beautiful to their parents but for poor Madeleine the pics all seem enhanced to make her prettier.Everything seems manipulated from day 1.

Bellisa wrote:Dantezbu I think nickE has circled the low set ears and a lump on neck?

Tigger every child is beautiful to their parents but for poor Madeleine the pics all seem enhanced to make her prettier.Everything seems manipulated from day 1.

Correct.
"Other physical features associated with Turner syndrome may include coarctation of the aorta (narrowing of part of the aorta - the major artery leading out of the heart), webbing of the neck (skin fold that runs along the sides of the neck down to the shoulders), wide spaced nipples and puffy hands and feet. This is due to lymphoedema - a condition where when excess fluid is unable to drain from the organs and body and leaks into the surrounding tissues. Sleeping and feeding difficulties may occur in early childhood and though intelligence spans the normal range there can be learning and behavioural difficulties. Verbal abilities are often found to be significantly better than visuo-spatial abilities (abilities to judge spaces and shapes).
Many affected girls experience difficulties in their peer relationships. They may seem immature, have poor social skills and be unassertive, shy and socially anxious. They may also have difficulties related to poor concentration, distractibility and overactivity". 
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I can't agree with the low set ears. She is looking up and the ears look normal and are in a normal position. Turner's girls often have enlarged earlobes which Madeleine doesn't have.
Webbing of the neck is a feature of Turner's and it is something you cannot miss. If you look straight on at the neck instead of it being basically straight up and down slightly wider at the bottom the neck is much wider at the bottom ie more triangular in shape. 
I cannot see that in any photos of Madeleine. There is no lump in the picture that I can see (maybe it's the strand of hair). There may be some fullness under the jawline, but that's quite common in children Madeleines age due to enlarged lymph nodes. 
It also should be considered that if Madeleine did have Turner's syndrome it would almost definitely have been picked up in the DNA testing. 
They did identify a female child and in that case would have had to identify two X chromosomes.

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Well spotted, NickE! That is quite a dewlap.

I would add that swollen lymph nodes are a feature of Gaucher's disease.

I do not believe the Madeleine pictured above to be as short as 90cm.

I wonder if the 'creche substitute Madeleine' was herself short and perhaps had a coloboma?

I wonder if " tennis court Maddy" was the little girl who was being filmed ( by Kate and tapas) the one who's dad feels like a dirty old man that Kate referred too?

dantezebu wrote:I can't agree with the low set ears. She is looking up and the ears look normal and are in a normal position. Turner's girls often have enlarged earlobes which Madeleine doesn't have.
Webbing of the neck is a feature of Turner's and it is something you cannot miss. If you look straight on at the neck instead of it being basically straight up and down slightly wider at the bottom the neck is much wider at the bottom ie more triangular in shape. 
I cannot see that in any photos of Madeleine. There is no lump in the picture that I can see (maybe it's the strand of hair). There may be some fullness under the jawline, but that's quite common in children Madeleines age due to enlarged lymph nodes. 
It also should be considered that if Madeleine did have Turner's syndrome it would almost definitely have been picked up in the DNA testing. 
They did identify a female child and in that case would have had to identify two X chromosomes.

Two X chromosomes...Not necessarily. That's the problem with Turners which is generally determined as faulty transference of the X chromosome where it does not or may not have a 'pair'.
It becomes furthermore confusing when the Turners syndrome includes 'mosaic' features.
There was some comment by PJ that the blood found (of Maddie) showed signs of 3 persons.
Mosaic complications can also occur if two implanted foetuses fuse.
Often several fertilised eggs (in IVF) will be implanted to ensure one, at least, succeeds.
It's not at all straightforward.
See the Wikipedia ref. to Turners Syndrome. It also covers a lot of expanded info on heart problems.
There are also many photos of Madeleine, if they are of Madeleine, where her ears look low set and far back.
Too late now, but will search some out tomorrow to indicate.
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I noticed Madeline's hands were shaped odd I wasn't sure if they were photo shopped in ? I too noticed her ears are low set. Too bad she appears put together in every pic we see of aka Maddy

... a few comments back a message was shared suggesting that a neighbour claimed that MBM was autistic... I recall others have said she was 'difficult'. If anyone's interested here's a recent article that suggests a link exists between parents who require IVF and certain types of mental health issues, such as autism.

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(snipped from today's Telegraph online)

Oddly enough, the article doesn't seem finished.

Lord Robert Winston,

1. Robert Maurice Lipson Winston, Baron Winston is a professor, medical doctor, scientist, television presenter and politician. Wikipedia
   
   
2. Born: July 15, 1940 (age 74), London
   
3. Party: Labour Party
   

Why I don't employ students with first-class degrees, by Lord Winston: Fertility expert says applications who have fallen short make better employees

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Well spotted, NickE! That is quite a dewlap.

I would add that swollen lymph nodes are a feature of Gaucher's disease.

I do not believe the Madeleine pictured above to be as short as 90cm.

I wonder if the 'creche substitute Madeleine' was herself short and perhaps had a coloboma?

Eh? It's a loop of her hair falling around her neck. What on earth do you see? It's normal as anything. Sorry, the photo 'opinions' are getting silly now..

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It is hair.

For many years working out of a base at Queen Charlotte's hospital, Hammersmith.

The birthplace of Robert Murat, yet another coincidence.

I believe Lord Winston has also given talks on progress in this area to Freemason's lodges.

Sonmi-451 wrote:... a few comments back a message was shared suggesting that a neighbour claimed that MBM was autistic... I recall others have said she was 'difficult'. If anyone's interested here's a recent article that suggests a link exists between parents who require IVF and certain types of mental health issues, such as autism.

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@Sonmi-451

A quick scan of that article suggests that it is possibly the underlying genetics of the parents not the treatment procedure itself that may possibly cause health issues in the offspring such as autism:-

"The exact mechanisms behind the observed increase in risk are still unknown but it is generally believed that underlying infertility has a more important role in adverse effects in offspring than the treatment procedures," said Allan Jensen, an epidemiologist at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark.
One possibility is that faulty genes that raise the risk of psychiatric diseases are more common in women or men with fertility problems. "If transferred to their offspring, this may at least partly explain the increased risk of psychiatric diseases," Jensen said."

but even this has not been scientifically empirically proven afaiaw.

Fertility procedures are far more complicated that just 'parents who require ivf' both in the procedures used and the underlying health issues of the parents that necessitated it.

I have yet to see any scientifially proven link between any fertility problems or procedures and health issues of the child, mental or physical.

All in my own opinion nothing stated as fact.

canada12 wrote:

NickE wrote:Someone claimed on Twitter that PJ would never reopen the investigation unless they had access to her medical records. What do you think about that?

Whose medical records? Kate's or Madeleine's?

I think access to Kate's medical records might be almost as illuminating as access to Madeleine's medical records.

Agreed. 

Page 94, Madeleine: "For the first time I noticed the ugly purple, blue and black bruises on the sides of my hands, wrists and forearms. I was shocked. Gerry reminded me of how I'd been banging my clenched fists on the veranda railing and the apartment walls the night before. I could only vaguely remember it."

How or why banging her clenched fists on walls and railings would help Kate to find her daughter is anyone's guess. Might have been more helpful to swiftly alert the police, follow  police advice of not getting the media involved and making public that photo, and physically searching for their daughter. And perhaps Jane Tanner might have had the foresight to tell Kate and Gerry that she thinks she saw Madeleine being abducted at 10pm, rather than 'not wanting to add to Kate's distress, ' by delaying telling her. Kate's 'pain and anguish and distress' is clearly a more pressing concern than rescuing Madeleine from the clutches of a paedophile gang.

What a bunch of idiots.

Page 262 - 263, Madeleine:

(This is after the McCanns had flown home, having been made arguidos.)

"One of the first things we did was to ring our GP. We wanted to make contact with the social services to pre-empt any interest they might be obliged to take in us. In the light of the headlines and our arguido status, we realized there would be pressure on the authorities to assess the welfare of the twins. It all seemed so crazy and unfair, but we had to confront it head on. Our doctor came round on Monday morning and we talked things through with him.

"Wild stories were appearing in the papers about my 'fragile' mental state, my 'inability to cope' my 'hyperactive' children, eating disorders and sedatives. All complete bullshit, yet not once had our GP being contacted for any information about us. The police had not sought our medical notes and nobody had ever asked him if we were well and healthy, what kind of people we were, whether he'd ever had any concerns about us our our parenting skills or if we were on medication.

"Three days later we had a meeting with a social services manager and a local child-protection officer. They went through various formalities with us and, while they took care to keep everything on a totally professional footing, I could tell they felt uncomfortable about having to subject us to this sort of scrutiny. But we'd resigned ourselves to it. We'd expected it, accepted it and we had nothing to hide."

Crazy and unfair to be concerned about the welfare of children whose parents are neglectful enough to leave three children under four seven nights in a row without a babysitter? Parents who admit that their children were crying for them, but they still left them alone the following evening? And at least one eye-witness also heard a child crying in distress in their apartment for over an hour? Leading, ultimately, to the mysterious and suspicious 'disappearance' of one of their children.

As for the comment about the GP not been contacted for information, Kate knows as well as anyone that patients' medical records are confidential. There are rules governing their disclosure. So that comment is deliberately obtuse, disingenuous and misleading.

So, according to Kate, the social services manager and child-protection officer 'felt uncomfortable' about having to scrutinize the McCanns. The implication being that they didn't want to 'add to Kate's distress' I suppose? Which, as so clearly outlined by Kate, is more important than finding Madeleine. Probably about on the same level of importance as The (Lifestyle) Fund.

In my opinion only.

I thought there was a statement from the GP, so she is lying again?

lj wrote:I thought there was a statement from the GP, so she is lying again?

K and G seem to have the Clarence Mitchell affliction so when you see any of them opening their mouths  you know what to expect. They are quite consistent in this respect. As others have noted, you have to apply reverse psychology. I have occasionally had to resort to this with tantrumy toddlers or truculent teenagers.

"Three days later we had a meeting with a social services manager and a local child-protection officer. They went through various formalities with us and, while they took care to keep everything on a totally professional footing, I could tell they felt uncomfortable about having to subject us to this sort of scrutiny. But we'd resigned ourselves to it. We'd expected it, accepted it and we had nothing to hide."

I believe it more likely that Social Services contacted the McCanns for a little chat, rather than Kate and Gerry contacting them. As for Social Services feeling uncomfortable, I suspect it was more Kate and Gerry feeling uncomfortable about having to be subjected to this sort of scrutiny.

Flip everything around that they say. And then you might get a glimse of the real truth.