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Madeleine's health records

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by rainbow-fairy on 24.05.14 2:04

@tigger wrote:Some more links:   https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2986-ivf-procedure-may-increase-risk-of-down-s-syndrome?highlight=Munchhausen+syndrome

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5043-munchausens-syndrome-by-proxy?highlight=Munchhausen+syndrome


In this last one we came to the conclusion that the condition doesn't apply here, however there are a number of useful links and observations in this topic.

Here is the curious statement of their GP with comment from Russiandoll, copied from the second link.

3—Witness statement of Ian Richard Schofield (Dr. at Alpine Practice) 2008.05.14
Testimony of: Ian Richard SCHOFIELD
Age is less than 18 years:
Occupation: Physician (General Practice)
This deposition (comprising 1 page and signed by me) is true and according to my understanding. I am aware that, if proven to the contrary, I will be subject to prosecution if I have voluntarily testified to something with
knowledge of it being false or not corresponding to the truth.
Date: May 14, 2008
Signature ______________________________________

I am a GP and senior partner in Alpine Practice in Rothley Road, Mountsorrel and in summary my qualifications are respectively at MBChB, DRCOG, MRCGP.
I am currently, and have been for 14 months, the GP of the McCann family. Before Madeleine's disappearance, I had only consulted Kate McCann once and never had assisted Gerry, nor ever had reason to deal with the twins Sean and Amelie and only saw them once after the disappearance of Madeleine.
As Kate and Gerry are general practitioners I never had any doubt about their capacity or mental abilities as individuals or as parents to their three children.
I never prescribed Kate or Gerry any medication that could alter their behaviour or demeanour.
I never had any doubt about the psychological welfare of the children.
The only thing I can affirm is that Kate and Gerry are a very genuine couple, affectionate and careful [caring] parents. They always kept me, social services and other authorities informed on the progress of the investigation that followed the disappearance of Madeleine.
After the disappearance of Madeleine, I met Kate and Gerry at their home and never had any cause for concern about the twins.
This testimony was prepared from a series of questions raised by DC Ferguson and DC Holliday of the Leicestershire police, following the request by the Portuguese PJ.
This testimony was made by me and it is true according to my understanding.

so only the family GP since Maddie vanished.
Had not to date seen the twins.
Maddie therefore appears never to have been seen by any doctor apart from a duty doctor for a post-birth check.

So the question remains, who was responsible for Madeleine's health ? If she had any prescriptions, they do not appear to have been written up by her GP. Her medical records are imo of major importance. And is there any explanation for why the family GP changed in March 2007?
Unquote
So by Dr. Schofields logic, had they been, say, a shop assistant and a binman as opposed to doctors he may have had doubts over their mental capabilities as parents?
What an insane thing to say, that because they are dr's they must be great parents.

Such caring (careful) parents, that they say that they left their 3 under-4's alone, in the dark, in an unfamiliar apartment abroad for not 1 but 5 nights?!?
Hardly careful, if you believe that's what they did!

I wonder if any of us would get such glowing support had it have been us in the situation Madeleine Kate and Gerry found themselves in?

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by kimHager on 24.05.14 3:56

lj i also wondered about the machines and jehovas witness connection..is there one? I saw that kate had jewish ties in her bloodline allegedly but...im still confused.

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by tigger on 24.05.14 11:00

Just copying this from the Recap on the tennis photo to keep information in one place.


by Hicks on Fri May 23, 2014 11:35 am

On June 1st Kate writes in her diary ....'can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear and pain'. 'How can I go on KNOWING that her life could have ended like this?
The next day she writes.....'cried in bed-I can't avoid it, I need her close to me, thinking about her fear of pain
breaks my heart'.

I find Kate's train of thought interesting when she talks of Madeleine's fear of pain, then straight after in the next sentence she says......'Thinking about paedophiles makes me want to tear at my own skin'.

I have never seen sunburn concentrated in one small area as we see on Madeleine's arm. Possible a burn of some kind but not made by the sun.

If Madeleine was indeed drugged then perhaps it wasn't done to make her sleep but for other purposes.

Taking all the above into account, plus a government mouthpiece who's role was to speak on behalf of two negligent parents, it paints a very dark disturbing picture.
by dantezebu on Fri May 23, 2014 10:26 am

worriedmum wrote:
Dantezbu, that is very interesting. Where are the Hilton notes from please?


Scared wants to return
Fears for her fear
Reality suddenly binds
Never loved anyone this much (Note: this is written in the third person, as in 'he/she never loved anyone this much')
Never again able to be completely happy / enjoy something. I'm sorry to be asking some of these questions, but I am sure you will understand that our despair, particularly given the lack of information and resulting helplessness, may be somewhat mitigated if it gains some trust.
''

I find the first three lines really strange.

What does 'reality suddenly binds' actually mean? And 'who' is scared?


Hi, they are at the very bottom of Kate's Diary on McCann Files along with a few other notes:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id166.html

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by NickE on 28.05.14 11:20

Someone claimed on Twitter that PJ would never reopen the investigation unless they had access to her medical records. What do you think about that?
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by canada12 on 28.05.14 11:24

@NickE wrote:Someone claimed on Twitter that PJ would never reopen the investigation unless they had access to her medical records. What do you think about that?

Whose medical records? Kate's or Madeleine's?

I think access to Kate's medical records might be almost as illuminating as access to Madeleine's medical records.

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by TozerDerry on 28.05.14 13:49

This is a good article regarding disclosure of Medical records:

http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/28/2/53.full

The main points are:

1/ That a duty of confidence applies to Medical Notes and they may not be disclosed without permission of the person, or under a court order.
2/ With Children the rights reside with the parent until Gillick competence is reached.
3/ Police have no right to records without a court order.

In the Madeleine Case it would have been the parents with the ability to disclose the notes as she was a minor, but this responsibility would have passed to the Courts when she was made a Ward of Court. If the notes had been required, an appeal to the Courts would have been necessary. Was one ever made?

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by kimHager on 28.05.14 16:50

Hmmm so now if the portugese ask for her records the courts can disclose them if they want. I just wonder with the mass cover up thats apparent to anyone with half a brain would they disclose the records if asked or would they need to keep kate and Gerry advised of everything because we know they r running the show..... All IMO

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by missbeetle on 22.06.14 9:04

I was thinking about Kate's father's Jewish heritage and the genetics behind familial Parkinson's disease.

I haven't come across any articles to back up my thoughts so far, but I did find a familiarly named gene :

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by Guest on 22.06.14 9:12

There's a PINK gene?  yes
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Oh the irony...

Post by missbeetle on 29.06.14 10:05


(snipped from Time magazine article online)
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by XTC on 29.06.14 23:06

@TozerDerry wrote:This is a good article regarding disclosure of Medical records:

http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/28/2/53.full

The main points are:

1/ That a duty of confidence applies to Medical Notes and they may not be disclosed without permission of the person, or under a court order.
2/ With Children the rights reside with the parent until Gillick competence is reached.
3/ Police have no right to records without a court order.

In the Madeleine Case it would have been the parents with the ability to disclose the notes as she was a minor, but this responsibility would have passed to the Courts when she was made a Ward of Court. If the notes had been required, an appeal to the Courts would have been necessary. Was one ever made?
I can only assume that access to Madeleine's medical records was so that Mr Amaral and his team could ascertain whether she was a good sleeper? His suspicion could have been that sedatives were administered on a regular basis at home ( Mrs Mccann was a trained Junior Anaethetist )
and Madeleine could have had a history of sleepless nights. Same on holiday as the same at home?

Beyond that we are into the possible reason of avoiding a post mortem in the case of death. I'm not sure that Mr Amaral was heading down that avenue at that particular point in time.

As you say though you would need a good reason to want to know and from the look of it that pretention was denied like many others by the British.

All opinion.

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by Guest on 30.06.14 9:32

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@tigger wrote:Some more links:   https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2986-ivf-procedure-may-increase-risk-of-down-s-syndrome?highlight=Munchhausen+syndrome

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5043-munchausens-syndrome-by-proxy?highlight=Munchhausen+syndrome


In this last one we came to the conclusion that the condition doesn't apply here, however there are a number of useful links and observations in this topic.

Here is the curious statement of their GP with comment from Russiandoll, copied from the second link.

3—Witness statement of Ian Richard Schofield (Dr. at Alpine Practice) 2008.05.14
Testimony of: Ian Richard SCHOFIELD
Age is less than 18 years:
Occupation: Physician (General Practice)
This deposition (comprising 1 page and signed by me) is true and according to my understanding. I am aware that, if proven to the contrary, I will be subject to prosecution if I have voluntarily testified to something with
knowledge of it being false or not corresponding to the truth.
Date: May 14, 2008
Signature ______________________________________

I am a GP and senior partner in Alpine Practice in Rothley Road, Mountsorrel and in summary my qualifications are respectively at MBChB, DRCOG, MRCGP.
I am currently, and have been for 14 months, the GP of the McCann family. Before Madeleine's disappearance, I had only consulted Kate McCann once and never had assisted Gerry, nor ever had reason to deal with the twins Sean and Amelie and only saw them once after the disappearance of Madeleine.
As Kate and Gerry are general practitioners I never had any doubt about their capacity or mental abilities as individuals or as parents to their three children.
I never prescribed Kate or Gerry any medication that could alter their behaviour or demeanour.
I never had any doubt about the psychological welfare of the children.
The only thing I can affirm is that Kate and Gerry are a very genuine couple, affectionate and careful [caring] parents. They always kept me, social services and other authorities informed on the progress of the investigation that followed the disappearance of Madeleine.
After the disappearance of Madeleine, I met Kate and Gerry at their home and never had any cause for concern about the twins.
This testimony was prepared from a series of questions raised by DC Ferguson and DC Holliday of the Leicestershire police, following the request by the Portuguese PJ.
This testimony was made by me and it is true according to my understanding.

so only the family GP since Maddie vanished.
Had not to date seen the twins.
Maddie therefore appears never to have been seen by any doctor apart from a duty doctor for a post-birth check.

So the question remains, who was responsible for Madeleine's health ? If she had any prescriptions, they do not appear to have been written up by her GP. Her medical records are imo of major importance. And is there any explanation for why the family GP changed in March 2007?
Unquote
So by Dr. Schofields logic, had they been, say, a shop assistant and a binman as opposed to doctors he may have had doubts over their mental capabilities as parents?
What an insane thing to say, that because they are dr's they must be great parents.

Such caring (careful) parents, that they say that they left their 3 under-4's alone, in the dark, in an unfamiliar apartment abroad for not 1 but 5 nights?!?
Hardly careful, if you believe that's what they did!

I wonder if any of us would get such glowing support had it have been us in the situation Madeleine Kate and Gerry found themselves in?

Alpine Practice, Rothley Website wrote:We are a partnership of three male doctors and employ one Female salaried doctor.

At my GP's practice, unless you specify that you want to see a particular doctor, you are booked in to see whoever is available. We have a family GP but, in spite of all three of us visiting the surgery several times, our GP could testify under oath that she hasn't seen or prescribed for any of us for at least 10 years.

I notice that in Dr Schofield's deposition he only refers to himself and not the surgery as a whole.

If any of the McCanns had been seen by one of the other doctors within the practice who prescribed medication that could alter their behaviour or demeanour and had concerns about the psychological welfare of the children, Dr Schofield could still truthfully give this deposition.
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by Ethan_O on 30.06.14 9:35

This was on twitter earlier.

Allegedly the comment made that Madeleine was autistic was from one of the Mccanns neighbours. 


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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by worriedmum on 30.06.14 9:40

quote ''I am currently, and have been for 14 months, the GP of the McCann family. Before Madeleine's disappearance, I had only consulted Kate McCann once and never had assisted Gerry, nor ever had reason to deal with the twins Sean and Amelie and only saw them once after the disappearance of Madeleine.'' unquote


Eh?

Isn't this  the opposite of what we thought was trying to be established? Isn't he talking about working with them, not them as patients visiting him?
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by tigger on 30.06.14 10:31




Would the world go looking for this child?




Or for this child?

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by Guest on 30.06.14 11:44

Who published that first pic tigger?

Alarming difference between the two and that cannot be put down to age.
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by lj on 30.06.14 14:10

@worriedmum wrote:quote ''I am currently, and have been for 14 months, the GP of the McCann family. Before Madeleine's disappearance, I had only consulted Kate McCann once and never had assisted Gerry, nor ever had reason to deal with the twins Sean and Amelie and only saw them once after the disappearance of Madeleine.'' unquote


Eh?

Isn't this  the opposite of what we thought was trying to be established? Isn't he talking about working with them, not them as patients visiting him?


English is not my first language, but for me it sounds like he went to Kate for advice.

Let's hope that was not about child care.

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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by Guest on 30.06.14 14:13

It is very stilted language but I would say that, as he also mentions the twins, that he was actually talking about Kate and Gerry as his patients.
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by tigger on 30.06.14 14:36

Bellisa wrote:Who published that first pic tigger?

Alarming difference between the two and that cannot be put down to age.

I don't know but it's part of what seems to me a deliberatephoto opportunity and the time of this event is April 2007!

i have a question for you: do you think the world would have looked quite so enthusiastically for this girl or donated so much money?

Maddie's little life is central to the whole story and therefore that should be our starting point imo. Why keep back her health records? Why did she have to be 'beautiful' every time her name was mentioned?
Did everybody look for April Jones because she was 'beautiful?' Ben Needham? No, they were sought because they were loved and missed and it was feared someone would harm them.
Not, as we were assured by TM - abducted by a paedophile, yet there was no expectation that she'd be harmed. no evidence that she's been harmed - as TM repeat endlessly in interviews.


In this topic you'll find some very high resolution photos of this platground shoot.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4537-most-pictures-taken-on-same-day?highlight=Most+pictures+taken


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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by lj on 30.06.14 14:39

@XTC wrote:
@TozerDerry wrote:This is a good article regarding disclosure of Medical records:

http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/28/2/53.full

The main points are:

1/ That a duty of confidence applies to Medical Notes and they may not be disclosed without permission of the person, or under a court order.
2/ With Children the rights reside with the parent until Gillick competence is reached.
3/ Police have no right to records without a court order.

In the Madeleine Case it would have been the parents with the ability to disclose the notes as she was a minor, but this responsibility would have passed to the Courts when she was made a Ward of Court. If the notes had been required, an appeal to the Courts would have been necessary. Was one ever made?
I can only assume that access to Madeleine's medical records was so that Mr Amaral and his team could ascertain whether she was a good sleeper? His suspicion could have been that sedatives were administered on a regular basis at home ( Mrs Mccann was a trained Junior Anaethetist )
and Madeleine could have had a history of sleepless nights. Same on holiday as the same at home?

Beyond that we are into the possible reason of avoiding a post mortem in the case of death. I'm not sure that Mr Amaral was heading down that avenue at that particular point in time.

As you say though you would need a good reason to want to know and from the look of it that pretention was denied like many others by the British.

All opinion.

IMO the moment the investigation turned from "abducted" to "disappeared" the medical files from the whole family became important. Was there a disease that played a role. Indeed Kate's mental health and/or medication. From the beginning Madeleine's behavior was brought up. Grandma's infamous "that child could throw a tantrum". The chart with stars if she stayed in bed. There was this soundclip of the other grandma, heard by many but the fastest and first wooshed clunked media bit, that allegedly Madeleine (at times) was given valium to sleep. The 41st question about that in England Kate considered the possibility of handing over Madeleine’s guardianship to a relative? 

I doubt though that the files would reveal much. I think they would have sanitized thoroughly. Moreover, I don't know if in the UK it is like that, but at least in 3 otrher countries I know that between doctors there is not much record keeping, it's more like "here try this" accompanied by a sample from the pharm industry, so no prescription record exist either. In the past there where suspicions that Madeleine might have participated in a trial for uncle John's company. I don't know about that but it surely would not impossible IMO that uncle John handed over some boxes with some remark like "try this, it is really safe" .

Again all opinion though some quotes are real.

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by lj on 30.06.14 14:43

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It is very stilted language but I would say that, as he also mentions the twins, that he was actually talking about Kate and Gerry as his patients.


Knowing the context I think so too, NFWTD, but don't you agree that if you did not know Kate or anything about this case it sounds like he was asking an advice from Kate?


edited to change "would ask" into "was asking".

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by lj on 30.06.14 14:53

@Ethan_O wrote:This was on twitter earlier.

Allegedly the comment made that Madeleine was autistic was from one of the Mccanns neighbours. 



Wasn't it the Control Risk group that came up with the "autism" idea?

I don't know, in the little we have seen of her and heard about her I do not see that. It is however a good example of how important it is to have the COMPLETE medical files.

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by lj on 30.06.14 15:07

@tigger wrote:


Would the world go looking for this child?




Or for this child?
Absolutely true, Tigger.

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by NickE on 30.06.14 19:38

@lj wrote:
@tigger wrote:


Would the world go looking for this child?




Or for this child?
Absolutely true, Tigger.

Turner syndrome?!?!
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Re: Madeleine's health records

Post by sar on 30.06.14 20:17

not sure who mentioned it but a "bad case of the munchies" was the expression used before, may explain ill health / pallor / bruises / discolouration / deameanour etc

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