Re: Gasper Statement Published

by nemesis/muratfan 23.01.10 0:35

[quote="marigold"]

nemesis wrote:What makes me laugh is why nobody has questioned why the Gaspers made the statememnt. THEY HEARD NOTHING ONLY GESTURES. He may have itched his nipple, it does happen.

But then some can not try to link paedophilia into this can they[/quote

More excuses for very worrying behaviour. Dr Gaspar was clearly very concerned, as any right minded person would be on seeing this gesture related to a child. Not just once but twice. The second time was when he was talking about HIS OWN DAUGHTER. You don't have to HEAR what is being said; this crude gesture about a little girl says it all. He was talking to Gerry so must have been confident that Gerry was accepting of it. No wonder the table fell silent when they saw Dr.Gaspar's horrified expression. By the way, Mr.Gaspar did NOT say Payne wasn't referring to Madeleine the first time Payne 'gestured'; he said he wasn't sure.

They said in the statement "she" referring to "Madeleine" , even though they did not hear any name mentioned. Once again they were so concerned nobody bothered telling the Police.
I do wish everyone stops trying to link paedophilia to the case. we have had the infamous Ice Cream Picture where people had said that Madeleine was sucking a ice cream provocatively, and because of that photo everyone was a pervert. That photo was a load of crap, and people believe the crap that is said over and over again. Simple people cannot think for themselves, they have to follow some posters like sheep.

by marigold 23.01.10 0:44

[quote="nemesis"]

marigold wrote:
nemesis wrote:What makes me laugh is why nobody has questioned why the Gaspers made the statememnt. THEY HEARD NOTHING ONLY GESTURES. He may have itched his nipple, it does happen.

But then some can not try to link paedophilia into this can they[/quote

More excuses for very worrying behaviour. Dr Gaspar was clearly very concerned, as any right minded person would be on seeing this gesture related to a child. Not just once but twice. The second time was when he was talking about HIS OWN DAUGHTER. You don't have to HEAR what is being said; this crude gesture about a little girl says it all. He was talking to Gerry so must have been confident that Gerry was accepting of it. No wonder the table fell silent when they saw Dr.Gaspar's horrified expression. By the way, Mr.Gaspar did NOT say Payne wasn't referring to Madeleine the first time Payne 'gestured'; he said he wasn't sure.

They said in the statement "she" referring to "Madeleine" , even though they did not hear any name mentioned. Once again they were so concerned nobody bothered telling the Police.
I do wish everyone stops trying to link paedophilia to the case. we have had the infamous Ice Cream Picture where people had said that Madeleine was sucking a ice cream provocatively, and because of that photo everyone was a pervert. That photo was a load of crap, and people believe the crap that is said over and over again. Simple people cannot think for themselves, they have to follow some posters like sheep.

I think there is a very high likelihood that the case is linked to paedophilia. Dr.Gaspar didn't say she thought Payne was talking about his daughter the SECOND time he used the gesture. She said 'this time when talking about his own daughter'. Said with certainty.
That ice cream photo is disturbing to say the least. Many think so. Just who do you think you are accusing people of being sheep because they don't agree with you? How pathetic.

by nemesis/muratfan 23.01.10 1:01

I am not asking people to agree with me. People cannot seem to make their own minds up and get bombarded with stupid posts.
How can a girl eating ice cream be linked to Paedophilia? That is pathetic itself. Have you seen the two photos of the Ice Cream Photos? You know the original one and the "re-touched" one? Or do you believe the "re-touched" is the correct one?

by Pascal 23.01.10 1:28

I just had a very weird flashback to Earthspirit.

by **Tony Bennett** 23.01.10 7:51

nemesis wrote:Tony, what is the relevance of someone visiting a pornographic site where consenting adults can post?

Of more relevance is Robert Murat's inability to explain why he had encrypted material on his computer and of still more relevance, if true, are the allegations made by Carlos Costas and the anonymous Portuguese female, who both gave details about Murat's interest in sexual perversions. I will not repeat this material here as I am quite sure you are well aware of it.

by Kololi 23.01.10 7:53

Hi
I find it hard to imagine that paedophilia amongst the party is likely but, like everything else, I suppose it shouldn't be dismissed and could be a possibility.

Maybe they were fooling around, doing stuff to shock, and when they saw Mrs Gaspar's reaction they realised they might have overstepped the mark. They might have all gone quiet with embarrassment because they could see that she had swallowed their Tomfoolery hook line and sinker.

I also wonder if there is truth in this why Mr McCann didn't protest at the time if he felt that the gestures and comments were of a sexual nature about his daughter.

Take care

by vaguely1 23.01.10 8:16

Kololi wrote:Hi
I find it hard to imagine that paedophilia amongst the party is likely but, like everything else, I suppose it shouldn't be dismissed and could be a possibility.

Maybe they were fooling around, doing stuff to shock, and when they saw Mrs Gaspar's reaction they realised they might have overstepped the mark. They might have all gone quiet with embarrassment because they could see that she had swallowed their Tomfoolery hook line and sinker.

I also wonder if there is truth in this why Mr McCann didn't protest at the time if he felt that the gestures and comments were of a sexual nature about his daughter.

Take care

I think this is exactly what happened. I think Mr Gaspar probably has a more measured view on the situation than Mrs Gaspar. Paedophiles don't generally go around outing themselves at dinner parties.

I think that the fact that there were pages and pages condemning this man as a Paedophile, based on the conflicted statement of a woman who states that the paedophile part of the statement is her imagination is EXACTLY why this statement should never have been seen outside of police circles.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 8:19

Tony Bennett wrote:
nemesis wrote:Tony, what is the relevance of someone visiting a pornographic site where consenting adults can post?
Of more relevance is Robert Murat's inability to explain why he had encrypted material on his computer and of still more relevance, if true, are the allegations made by Carlos Costas and the anonymous Portuguese female, who both gave details about Murat's interest in sexual perversions. I will not repeat this material here as I am quite sure you are well aware of it.

I'm not. Unless his 'perversions' are child related I don't suppose they're relevant.

It was a criminal investigation, not a moral one.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 8:23

[quote="marigold"]

nemesis wrote:
marigold wrote:
nemesis wrote:What makes me laugh is why nobody has questioned why the Gaspers made the statememnt. THEY HEARD NOTHING ONLY GESTURES. He may have itched his nipple, it does happen.

But then some can not try to link paedophilia into this can they[/quote

More excuses for very worrying behaviour. Dr Gaspar was clearly very concerned, as any right minded person would be on seeing this gesture related to a child. Not just once but twice. The second time was when he was talking about HIS OWN DAUGHTER. You don't have to HEAR what is being said; this crude gesture about a little girl says it all. He was talking to Gerry so must have been confident that Gerry was accepting of it. No wonder the table fell silent when they saw Dr.Gaspar's horrified expression. By the way, Mr.Gaspar did NOT say Payne wasn't referring to Madeleine the first time Payne 'gestured'; he said he wasn't sure.

They said in the statement "she" referring to "Madeleine" , even though they did not hear any name mentioned. Once again they were so concerned nobody bothered telling the Police.
I do wish everyone stops trying to link paedophilia to the case. we have had the infamous Ice Cream Picture where people had said that Madeleine was sucking a ice cream provocatively, and because of that photo everyone was a pervert. That photo was a load of crap, and people believe the crap that is said over and over again. Simple people cannot think for themselves, they have to follow some posters like sheep.

I think there is a very high likelihood that the case is linked to paedophilia. Dr.Gaspar didn't say she thought Payne was talking about his daughter the SECOND time he used the gesture. She said 'this time when talking about his own daughter'. Said with certainty.
That ice cream photo is disturbing to say the least. Many think so. Just who do you think you are accusing people of being sheep because they don't agree with you? How pathetic.

Marigold the ice cream photo isn't a photo, it's a still taken from a video where the photo was in the video. It's then been blown up beyond all recognition, then photo-shopped.

It's a kid eating an ice-cream.

by **Tony Bennett** 23.01.10 8:27

vaguely1 wrote:
Kololi wrote:Hi
I find it hard to imagine that paedophilia amongst the party is likely but, like everything else, I suppose it shouldn't be dismissed and could be a possibility.

Maybe they were fooling around, doing stuff to shock, and when they saw Mrs Gaspar's reaction they realised they might have overstepped the mark. They might have all gone quiet with embarrassment because they could see that she had swallowed their Tomfoolery hook line and sinker.

I also wonder if there is truth in this why Mr McCann didn't protest at the time if he felt that the gestures and comments were of a sexual nature about his daughter.

Take care
I think this is exactly what happened. I think Mr Gaspar probably has a more measured view on the situation than Mrs Gaspar. Paedophiles don't generally go around outing themselves at dinner parties.

Unless of course during the course of the evening he had had rather too much to drink, thus causing him to be disinhibited, and possibly started doing and saying things that he would normally have kept quiet about. Remember Dr Katharine's description of the reaction over others on the patio at the time.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 8:29

Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:Murat couldn't explain why there was encrypted material on his computer - he even said he had 'no idea' it was on there. That's beside his visiting the highly explicit 'Redclouds' porno site a number of times each week.

Sergei Malinka had to wipe his entire hard drive.

And from Day 1 the McCanns' cry was that Madeleine was 'abducted by a paedophile/gang of paedophiles'.

Yvonne Martin, a child care social worker, thought she recognised Dr David Payne as someone on the Sex Offenders' Register.

The men from Jim Gamble's CEOP were there within 6 days to help and advise in the 'search'.

It's all very odd.
Can you clarify whether that's what she said, or whether she said she thought she had come across him in the course of her work.

If he was on the sex offenders register in relation to a social worker knowing about it then he wouldn't be living in a house with a young child.

re Murat, he's a grown man who visits porn sites on the internet...I'm not seeing how that is relevant, or even vaguely unusual.
I don't think Yvonne Martin did use those words, but this is certainly in one of her written statements:

• She declares that one of her principal claims when she wrote the anonymous letter is that the British police checked paedophile registers or child abusers and if David Payne was on that list. And nothing more was said…

Why would a social worker write anonymously to the police? How bizarre.

So Mr Payne is not on the sex offenders register.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 8:37

Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:
Kololi wrote:Hi
I find it hard to imagine that paedophilia amongst the party is likely but, like everything else, I suppose it shouldn't be dismissed and could be a possibility.

Maybe they were fooling around, doing stuff to shock, and when they saw Mrs Gaspar's reaction they realised they might have overstepped the mark. They might have all gone quiet with embarrassment because they could see that she had swallowed their Tomfoolery hook line and sinker.

I also wonder if there is truth in this why Mr McCann didn't protest at the time if he felt that the gestures and comments were of a sexual nature about his daughter.

Take care
I think this is exactly what happened. I think Mr Gaspar probably has a more measured view on the situation than Mrs Gaspar. Paedophiles don't generally go around outing themselves at dinner parties.
Unless of course during the course of the evening he had had rather too much to drink, thus causing him to be disinhibited, and possibly started doing and saying things that he would normally have kept quiet about. Remember Dr Katharine's description of the reaction over others on the patio at the time.

I almost get a sense that people are hoping he's a paedophile. I got the sense of that when the statement first came to light, and I still get the sense that people are hanging on to that hope.

The ice cream photo, the 101 different Madeleine's, the Murat connection, the Pharma connection, the church connection, the poor silenced police, the obvious disabilities, the clues in blogs ........a zillion different excitable threads all trying to make the pieces fit.

And now, to top it all of, as if it could actually get any worse, the vocal support for a man with pre-cons for arson, burglary and murder who is being heralded as the new saviour of Madeleine by wanting her declared dead.

I really didn't think things could get any worse. I guess forums never cease to surprise me.

by nemesis/muratfan 23.01.10 11:40

Tony Bennett wrote:
Unless of course during the course of the evening he had had rather too much to drink, thus causing him to be disinhibited, and possibly started doing and saying things that he would normally have kept quiet about. Remember Dr Katharine's description of the reaction over others on the patio at the time.

Tony, unless you have done work with paedophiles i suggest you do not give false impressions of them. Paedophiles very rarely drink to an excess where they do not know what they are doing, especially in a strange place.
Paedophiles are very clever in giving nothing away as to what they are like, because they know vigilantes are alive and well.So unless you have had dealings with them i suggest you stop spreading hysteria and untruths about it.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 11:45

I agree - unless people have professional experience of paedophiles then it's the daily mail doing the talking.

Simplest explanation, bearing in mind the bloke is living in the family home and has been checked out is that he was making a vulgar gesture and that Mrs Gaspar has a vivid imagination.

She appears to be the only person there that evening who was thinking about child pornography.

Even so, she was 100% correct to go to the police with her thoughts on the matter, and the police seem to have been correct in the priority they placed on them.

by ufercoffy 23.01.10 11:48

nemesis wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Unless of course during the course of the evening he had had rather too much to drink, thus causing him to be disinhibited, and possibly started doing and saying things that he would normally have kept quiet about. Remember Dr Katharine's description of the reaction over others on the patio at the time.

Tony, unless you have done work with paedophiles i suggest you do not give false impressions of them. Paedophiles very rarely drink to an excess where they do not know what they are doing, especially in a strange place.
Paedophiles are very clever in giving nothing away as to what they are like, because they know vigilantes are alive and well.So unless you have had dealings with them i suggest you stop spreading hysteria and untruths about it.

Do you work with paedophiles? You seem very knowledgeable about them.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 11:56

I presumed everyone on 3A did. Surely nobody would brand anybody as a paedophile unless they were an expert in the matter.

by nemesis/muratfan 23.01.10 12:02

ufercoffy wrote:

Do you work with paedophiles? You seem very knowledgeable about them.

Within my line of work i have had dealings with them.

by ufercoffy 23.01.10 14:45

nemesis wrote:
ufercoffy wrote:

Do you work with paedophiles? You seem very knowledgeable about them.

Within my line of work i have had dealings with them.

What line of work is that? Are you a police officer? Prison officer?

by justagrannynow 1 23.01.10 15:17

Apologies, but due to limited internet time, I cannot look up the Gaspar statements, but was there something in those statements to the effect that the Gaspars discussed the alleged gestures and decided they were sufficiently concerning for them to decide not to leave David Payne in the bathroom area of their apartment when their daughter was in there ? Perhaps they did indeed put the gestures down to vulgarity rather than paedophilia, but either way, their reaction at the time does seem to suggest they took the incident more seriously than if it had been nothing more than a crude joke between male friends.

by vaguely1 23.01.10 15:20

I'll post them up for you Gran

by vaguely1 23.01.10 15:24

Last Name: GASPAR
Forenames: KATHERINA
ZACHARIAS
Age: +18
Date of Birth:
Address:
Postal Code:
Profession:
Telephone no.:
Date of Testimony:
16/05/2007
Number of Pages: 8

I give this declaration in
relation to the MCCANN
family who are currently in
Portugal. The MCCANN family
is composed of Gerry MCCANN,
his wife, Kate MCCANN and
their three children,
Madeleine, age 4, and Sean
and Amelie, who are twins
and of 2 years of age.

As it is widely divulged,
Madeleine is not with her
family presently, and has
been missing for the last
two weeks.

I will begin by explaining
that I am married to Savio
Gaspar and that we have two
daughters, Ellena, who is
almost 3 and Isabella who is
now one year old. I have
been married to Savio for 11
years. I am a general
practitioner like my
husband. I met my husband
when we were (page 1)
working together in Exeter,
around 14 years ago.

To explain in what way we
met the MCCANN family, I
would like to state that my
husband knows Kate, given
that both attended Dundee
University between 1987 and
1992. At that time, Kate’s
name was Kate HEALY. I met
Kate and Gerry for the
occasion of their wedding,
around 1998, in Liverpool.
Both Savio and I went to the
wedding because since Savio
was an old friend of Kate,
we were both invited to the
event.

As far as I know Savio did
not know Gerry before the
abovementioned wedding.
After that time, we met as
friends and about three
times we spent weekends away
together. I would say become
close to be intimate friends
of Gerry and Kate.

I remember that in 2002 or
2003, Savio and I spent a
weekend with Gerry and Kate
in Devon. We maintained
contact with each others via
phone.

In 2002/2003 Savio and I
were living in Birmingham
and the MCCANNS in
Leicester.

In September of 2005, Savio,
I and Ellena, who at the
time was 1 and a half years
old, spent our holidays
abroad, in Majorca. We went
(page 2) on holidays with
Kate, Gerry, and Madeleine,
who should have been around
2 and a half years old and
with the twins, Sean and
Amelie, who were just months
old. I remember that I was
pregnant with Isabella.

On those holidays, with us,
were as well friends of
Gerry and Kate.

There was a couple, whose
names were Dave and Fiona,
and whose family name was
PAYNE, I believe. I think
that they were married and
had one daughter with about
1 year old, named Lilly. I
remember that on those
holidays, Fiona was
pregnant.

There was another couple,
whose names were Tara and
Stuart, and whose family
name I cannot remember who
were also on holidays with
us. They had two boys, of 1
and 3 years old, whose names
I do not remember. I did not
know these two families
until we went on holidays
together. From memory, I
think that it was David who
organised these holidays and
we all stayed together in a
big house in Majorca.

We spend a week on holidays,
however, the MCCANN family
and the PAYNE family stayed
for two weeks. I think that
Tara and Stuart, and their
two children, also stayed
for just one week.

Two or three days had gone
by, all of us staying in
Majorca where, in general
terms, we had fun (Page 3)
with our children. Possibly
around the fourth or fifth
day abroad, I remember an
incident that stayed
recorded in my head. I say
this in this way, because I
have thought many times
about the incident that I am
about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the
adults, that is, the couples
that I mentioned, were on a
patio outside of the house
where we were staying. We
had been eating and
drinking.

I was seated between Dave
and Gerry who I believe were
both speaking about
Madeleine. I don’t remember
the conversation in its
entirety, but it seemed they
were discussing a possible
scenario. I remember Dave
telling Gerry something like
“her”, referring to
Madeleine, “would do this”..

When he mentioned “this”,
Dave was sucking on one of
his fingers, pushing it
inside and outside his
mouth, while with the other
hand he made a circle around
his nipple, in a circulatory
movement over his clothes.
This was done in a
provocative manner and
carried an explicit
insinuation in relation to
what he was saying and
doing.

I remember that I was
shocked at this, and looked
at Gerry, and also at Dave,
to gauge their reactions. I
looked around (page 4) as is
saying “did someone else
hear that, or was it just
me”. Silence registered in
all the conversations and
after, we all began
conversing again.

I remember that I was
shocked at this, and looked
at Gerry, and also at Dave,
to see their reactions. I
looked around (page 4) as if
saying “did anyone else hear
this, or was it just me”.
There was a nervous silence
registered in all the
conversations and
afterwards, everyone began
talking again.

I never spoke to anyone
about this, but I always
felt that it was very
strange and it wasn’t
something that someone
should do or say.

Besides this, I remember
that David once again did
the same thing. When I refer
to this, I want to clarify
that it was during a
conversation in which he was
talking about an imaginary
situation. I do not know of
what. I believe that he was
talking about his own
daughter, Lily, although I
cannot be certain. He put
one of his fingers in his
mouth and slide it in and
out, and with the other
hand, drew a circle around
his breast in a sexually
provocative way. I believe
that he was referring to
what Lily would do.

Besides this [incident], I
remember that Dave did the
same thing once again. When
I refer to this, I want to
clarify that it was during a
conversation in which he was
talking about an imaginary
situation, though I could
not say exactly what about.
I believe that he was
talking about his own
daughter, Lily, though I’m
not certain. He put one of
his fingers in his mouth and
slide it in and out, while
the other hand drew a circle
around his nipple in a
provocative and sexual
manner. I believe that he
was referring to the way
that Lily, would behave or
do it.

I believe that he did this
later on, during the
holidays, but I cannot be
sure. The only time, besides
this one, that I was with
Dave and Fiona was several
weeks after the holidays,
when Savio and I met up with
Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona
at a restaurant in
Leicester.

I am certain that he said or
that he repeated the same
gestures aforementioned, but
it could have occurred in a
restaurant in Leicester,
however (page five) I
believe that it was later in
Mallorca. When I heard Dave
asking is “she did this” a
second time, I took it more
seriously.

I am absolutely certain that
he said what he said and
that he did the gestures
that I referred, but that
could have occurred in the
restaurant in Leicester,
though (page five) I believe
that it was later on, in
Majorca. When I heard Dave
doing and making this a
second time, I took it more
seriously.

I remember thinking whether
he looked at the girls in a
manner different from me or
from the others. I imagined
that maybe he had visited
Internet sites related to
small children. In short, I
thought that he was
interested child pornography
on the internet.

During our holidays I was
more attentive at bath time
after hearing Dave saying
that.

During our vacation in
Majorca, it was the fathers
who took care of the
children baths. I had the
tendency to walk close to
the bathroom, if it was Dave
bathing the children. I
remember telling Savio to be
careful and to be there, in
case it was Dave helping to
bathe the children and, in
particular, to my daughter
Ellena. I was very clear
about this, as having heard
him saying that had
disturbed me, and I did not
trust him to give bath to
Ellena alone.

When I heard Dave say that a
second time, this reinforced
what I already though in
relation to his thoughts
about little girls. During
our stay in Mallorca, Dave
and his wife, Fiona,
accompanied by this daughter
Lilly, took Madeleine (page
6) with them to sped the day
together, and to give Kate
and Gerry a bit of rest with
the twins. At stating this,
it is not that I was
reoccupied with Madeleine’s
safety, as she was also with
Fiona and Lilly, along with
Dave.

When I heard Dave say that a
second time, it reinforced
what I already thought in
relation to his thoughts
about girls. During our stay
in Majorca, Dave and his
wife, Fiona, accompanied by
this daughter Lily, took
Madeleine (page 6) with them
to spend the day, in order
to give Kate and Gerry a bit
of rest and time to be with
the twins. When I say this,
it is not that I was worried
about Madeleine’s safety,
since she was also with
Fiona and Lily, and also
with Dave, as far as I know.

As I already mentioned, I
was only with Dave and Fiona
on one occasion, after
Majorca, and I have not
spoken to them since that
time. In the last two years,
we have met, as a family,
with the MCCANN, once in a
while. That happens mainly
at the children’s birthdays,
a time when we get together.

The first time I had
knowledge of the terrible
news about Madeleine’s
disappearance through the
radio, my thoughts went
immediately to Dave. I asked
Savio if Dave was also on
holidays with the MCCANN in
Portugal but he did not
know.

I watched TV meticulously,
and watching the coverage of
the news, I understood that
Dave was there, because I
saw him, in the background,
on the television images
during the first days after
the Madeleine’s
disappearance. Based on
that, I believed that he was
on holidays with the MCCANN
in Portugal. Today,
Wednesday, the 16th of May
of 2007, at 17:40, I gave DC
Brewer an A4 page containing
2 photographic images. I am
going to reference these
images as (ref KZG/1) (probatory
element) that may (page
seven) be presented as mean
of proof, if necessary.
These photographs were taken
during the holidays in
Majorca. In the photographs,
Dave is wearing a white
t-shirt and the woman in the
photograph corresponds to
his wife Fiona. The man who
is holding the glass of wine
in the photograph is Stuart.
These photographs were taken
while we were at Majorca.
Signed:

Name: Arul Savio Gaspar

Date of statement: 16-05-2007

This statement was made in relation to
the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

I currently work as a GP at Saint
Clements Surgery, Birmingham, where I
have been employed for the last nine
years.

Madeleine is the daughter of Kate and
Gerry McCann and we are friends of the
family.

I have known Kate since 1987, when we
met at Dundee Medical School, and became
friends. We have remained in touch all
this time and meet up 3 or 4 times a
year, we often talk on the phone or
email each other.

When we first became friends in 1987
she was still known as Kate Healy, this
was the case until she married Gerry at
the end of 1990s. Kate and I completed
our medical degrees in 1992, when we
each carried on with our lives, once we
had begun our careers.

After I finished my degree I began my
career in Exeter, and I think Kate went
to Glasgow.

I only met up with Kate again in 1997 or
1998. At that moment I was married to
Katherina, we had both been invited to
attend Kate and Gerry's wedding.

After their wedding we lost contact and
I think they went to New Zealand.

We only met up again in 2001 in
Birmingham.

The couple visited us in the house where
we then living, in ******, and this was
the first time I talked to Gerry.

I think that at the time Kate and Gerry
were living in Queeniborough,
Leicestershire.

From 2001 and 2005 we were in regular
contact and often visited each other's
homes.

We planned holidays for the first week
of September 2005 in Majorca, Spain,
together with three other couples
including Kate and Gerry. We did not
know the other two couples, they were
friends of Kate and Gerry's, we had
never met them before.

We all had children.

When we went on this holiday we had one
daughter, ****** aged 18 months.

Kate and Gerry had 3 children, Madeleine
almost two and the twins who were six
months old.

The other couples were Fiona and David
Payne and their daughter Lily who was
one year old and **** and **** who had
two boys aged three and one. I do not
remember **** and *** surname nor the
names of their children.

Katherine and I had booked the holiday
for one week and the other two couples
had booked for two weeks. We stayed
together in a large villa.

We all arrived at the villa separately.

During the period we stayed at the villa
I remember a gesture made by David
Payne.
I do not remember the context of the
conversation between David and Gerry,
but I do remember seeing David use his
left index finger to rub his nipple,
using circular movements, whilst he put
his right index finger into his mouth,
touching his tongue. This happened
during a meal, at the end of the day in
the villa, I do not remember the time or
the date, but we would usually dine
between 19.30 and 21.00 every day. I
think this happened in the middle of the
holiday.

I remember that when I saw this gesture
I immediately thought it to be in very
bad taste, independently of the context
of the conversation they were having. We
were sitting around a white plastic
table in the villa. I don't know if
anyone else saw the gesture, apart from
my wife Katherina. After this gesture,
we did not notice any others and as far
as I know, the gesture was not repeated.

We never commented on this gesture
during the rest of the holiday and I
thought no more about it.

I can describe Dave as a Caucasian male
1.78 m tall, and of a medium complexion.
He had brown hair and used
glasses/contact lenses depending on the
circumstances.

I can say that Dave was a pleasant
person. I do not remember him having any
unusual characteristics.

During the holidays Dave never behaved
in an inappropriate manner with
Madeleine or with any of the other
children. Dave was popular with the
children and I took this to be because
he was a close friend to the family.

I never distrusted Dave. After the
holidays there was one occasion when we
were with Kate and Gerry and Fiona and
Dave were also present.

That was in a restaurant in Leicester in
2005. I do not remember the name of the
restaurant.

We had a pleasant evening, just the
three couples without the children.

I do not remember Dave having behaved
inappropriately on this occasion. We
have not spoken to Dave or Fiona since
December 2005, only due to their being
friends of Kate and Gerry, not for any
other reason.

The last time I saw Kate, Gerry,
Madeleine, Sean and Amelie was in March
2007 when they came to our house for the
first birthday celebration of my
daughter *****. On the morning of 4th
May Katherine saw the news about
Madeleine on television. We were very
shocked and worried given that they were
close friends.

It was during the days following the
news of the abduction that we discovered
that Fiona and David Payne were also
with them in Portugal.

It was at this moment that Katherina
showed concern at the gesture made by
Dave in Majorca in 2005. Katherina
remembered that when Dave made the
gesture he was referring to Madeleine.

I only remember that Katherina saw the
gesture at the time, I had forgotten the
episode, it was never the subject of
conversation.

At the time I did not feel the gesture
was referring to Madeleine.

It is my wish that the police are aware
of my preoccupation with the gesture
made by David Payne.
Signed. .

by vaguely1 23.01.10 15:24

Oops, that's a bit small. sorry.

by ufercoffy 23.01.10 15:29

And a bit narrow perhaps? :lol:

by Autumn 23.01.10 15:30

Im going to have to visit Specsavers big grin

by vaguely1 23.01.10 15:34

She mentions the bath. He doesn't recall it

She remembered in 2007 that the gesture was made whilst talking about Madeleine but didn't mention it in the preceding two years.

He doesn't think it had anything to do with Madeleine.

It could be that he paid no attention at the time, or it could be that retrospectively she pieced two and two together.

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