Re: The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo)

by **Jill Havern** 08.05.18 16:13

Hardly. You said what you needed to say in three paragraphs.

by **Jill Havern** 09.05.18 19:54

Jill Havern wrote:Textusa's disclaimer. "None of us are legal experts or have any educational background in law. So, we may be wrong in the assessment we make and if there is one occasion we want to be wrong, this will be it. If anyone is able to prove us wrong, we will be the first to jump for joy and gladly, very gladly, correct our hand and take back all we are going to say next."

Reply from PeterMac (retired Police Superintendent with 30 years experience plus a Law degree):

PeterMac wrote:We need to distil out the flabby thinking at the beginning.
He never spells out what he thinks they should be prosecuted for

Consider these bits .

The crime happened in Portugal. What crime ?

For it [What crime ?] to be prosecuted outside Portugal, where the crime happened, [What crime ?]
and there be no consequences there is only one way for that to happen: Portugal agreeing fully to that.

So, to the question will Portugal accept that the McCanns are prosecuted by the British in Britain? The answer seems to be a clear no. For what crime ?

Sovereignty determines that the McCanns have to be prosecuted in Portugal. For what crime ?

Only if the UK wants to insult Portugal and face the consequences on the international stage for doing so, will the McCanns ever be prosecuted in Britain for what happened in Luz. What DID happen in Luz ?

He then throws in a whole page about prosecution in England for crimes committed elsewhere
Ss. 9 and 10 OAPA 1861 refers ONLY to homicide
The Geneva Conventions Act 1957 (“GCA”) is talking about War crimes and torture

Unless we believe Madeleine was killed by her parents neither has any relevance to the case.

Portugal has a case of (the Portuguese equivalent of) failing to report a death, failing to produce a body for burial, and possibly another couple of minor administrative things -
but without conclusive proof cannot go further
England has a possible case of a Fraud, and a conspiracy to defraud, but without proof that Madeleine is dead and that the parents knew, or reasonably suspected this cannot go further

Now look at this nonsense

In a country’s jurisdiction laws from other countries are not accepted even if the issue in question is the same.

This is simply wrong. The whole point of the EAW is that countries DO accept the laws of others if they have an equivalent crime on their own statute books.
The recent case of not extraditing Puigdemont from Germany is a classic. German law specifies that there has to be an element of violence in the crime of sedition or whatever. Spanish law doesn't. The Spanish want him back, but the Germans can find no evidence of violence and so will not extradite him. Which is why the Spanish have changed tack and started to look at Financial crimes. (think Al Capone)

And then he starts on about "arguido" status and says it does not exist in England.
It is exactly the same as being interviewed under Caution with a lawyer present, and everything recorded on tape or video

But in any event it is a red herring (remember that ?) because BritPol would not interview about Portuguese crime, only about English crime

As someone has posted, if the 6,500 words were cut down to bullet points on one side of A4 it would be easier to see the flaws

REFS:
https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/criminal-law-blog/legal-update-universal-jurisdiction-which-foreign-crimes-can-be-tried-in-the-uk

Forgot to add this one.
The crime is rebellion . or High Treason

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/03/german-prosecutors-ask-court-to-permit-carles-puigdemont-extradition-to-spain

German prosecutors ask court to extradite Carles ...
www.theguardian.com
Carles Puigdemont with Catalan politicians from his Together for Catalonia party in Brussels in January. Photograph: Virginia Mayo/AP German prosecutors have asked a court to permit the extradition of the former Catalan separatist leader Carles Puigdemont to Spain. Prosecutors in the northern town ...

And Textusa's reply:

https://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/the-help-and-tennis-comments-continue-ii.html?showComment=1525630074466#c6812648200207471641

Peter's reply to Textusa's comment as she went off topic on her own article to go on about the Last Photo:

One of the main reasons I used the 3/5/7 photo WITH the bits of blue sky is so that I / we can NEVER be accused to selecting only the evidence which supports any argument.
In fact that photo is taken facing out to sea and shows the expected pattern of breaks in the cloud at sea from which we can deduce cloud over land - but that is beyond the intellectual capacity of those who refuse to see.

The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo) - Page 2 1105

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by Liz Eagles 09.05.18 20:31

You have to hand it to Textusa's style - when all else fails drop in xenophobia and lack of intellectual capacity. The BS bureau does much the same.

by Guest 10.05.18 7:13

Why haven't we seen this important evidence before now?

The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo) - Page 2 Eggman10

by Rogue-a-Tory 10.05.18 9:18

BlueBag wrote:Why haven't we seen this important evidence before now?

I recall seeing others similarly with a cool, grey sky that were date stamped 3 May 2007. One set from a windsurf competition.

by Verdi 10.05.18 12:30

PeterMac's e-book..

IT BOILS DOWN TO ONE SIMPLE QUESTION

Was this photo
.

The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo) - Page 2 Sun%2Bhat%2Band%2Bflapping%2Bcurta1

taken on this day ?

The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo) - Page 2 5

or on this day ?

The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo) - Page 2 6

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/the-pool-photo-refuses-to-go-away.html

by **Jill Havern** 10.05.18 12:32

BlueBag wrote:Why haven't we seen this important evidence before now?

You cheered PeterMac up this morning with this BB.

by **Jill Havern** 10.05.18 12:34

Rogue-a-Tory wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Why haven't we seen this important evidence before now?
I recall seeing others similarly with a cool, grey sky that were date stamped 3 May 2007. One set from a windsurf competition.

Peter's reply:

They are still all on line, and a selection was included at Appendix E

ANYONE, including Textusa and other non-believers can access them at

http://www.formulawindsurfing.org/event/112

The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo) - Page 2 326

by willowthewisp 10.05.18 13:43

Hi Jill Havern,so if the photographs that have been submitted as evidence of an event(s) to have happened on the stated days,tennis,poolside pictures 3rd May 2007, but could have been manufactured,manipulated to this date as protracted evidence of a person being alive and well!

I have just recently seen the Paulo Reis Control Risk Group that were called in to assist the McCann family?
It is safe to say there wasn't a War developing in Prai Da Luis, so something big needed to be hushed up pretty quickly for this level of Security to become involved with disappearance of a three year old little girl now known as Madeleine McCann.
If this level of security is has been involved with this case,there is little wonder why D notices have been ascertained to secure information from the public domain!
The UK Government are now running out of leg room on Operation Grange,so it will either be shelved as unsolved or put on a back burner environment?

It took 96 Families Twenty Nine years and millions of People to finally infurl those tightly gripped hands from the"HillsBorough disaster" to get some sort of justice from the UK Government who allowed a UK Police Force to try and smear the people who died during that event,Never forget that,that is what a UK Government colluded to do involving the "Iron Lady" Margaret thatcher scuttling around with her proverbial handbag?!

It is the same"Establishment" involved in the Madeleine McCann case,with CRG,Bell-Pottinger in close attendance?

by **Jill Havern** 10.05.18 14:48

From Peter:

Mental Health Warning

If you still believe that the Pool photo was taken on 3/5/7
then viewing the photos on Flickr, or the windsurfing event
could seriously damage your mental health.

You may experience
Increased heart rate, as you realise that you have been misled for over a decade

Palpitations, as you try to absorb the enormity of the lie
Nausea, as you realise what you have been told to swallow for so long
Insomnia, as you lie awake wresting with the evidence
Chest discomfort or pain, as you begin to understand what must have happened
Fainting, as the truth begins to hit home
Shortness of breath, as you try to sum it all up into words
Severe dizziness, as you try to make sense of it all
If you experience any of these symptoms you should lie own and read a good book.

Truth of the Lie is recommended.

by Verdi 10.05.18 16:12

Jill Havern wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Why haven't we seen this important evidence before now?

You cheered PeterMac up this morning with this BB.

I missed the satire at first hysterical

sorry BlueBag.

I genuinely thought it was something Textusa cooked-up from the photogaph used by PeterMac fool

. I even had a look at the blog to see what the sisterhood were saying on the subject duh

. I dropped-orf after the first paragraph snooze

.

by **Jill Havern** 10.05.18 20:00

The killing of the Madeleine McCann case? (plus Last Photo) - Page 2 Bendre11

Reply by PeterMac:

This proves the point that those who choose to ignore the reality may try to select their evidence.

In fact they make the point more strongly than ever. (1)

The photo they select, apparently showing blue sky shows NO hard shadows, but quite a stiff wind

Where they are standing - on land - it is overcast, but there is blue sky out to sea.

Clouds over the land

More clear over the sea.

= 50% cloud cover overall,

I don't know it we can post the lot

the link is

http://www.formulawindsurfing.org/gallery/242

3rd of May 2007, Portugal, 2007 Portimao Grand Prix
Day 3

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by **Jill Havern** 10.05.18 21:16

aquila wrote:You have to hand it to Textusa's style - when all else fails drop in xenophobia and lack of intellectual capacity. The BS bureau does much the same.

Not just Textusa and BS, but many on twitter too.

The McCanns entire story hinges on -

Smashed and broken shutters - disproved and later admitted even by Mitchell to have been an invented story
Sighting of an abductor - Tannerman / Crecheman dismissed by PJ and by Grange (twice). Smithman barely even credible.
Any remaining evidence that Madeleine was alive and well on 3/5/7 - for which they MUST rely on the Last/Pool Photo

The first two have gone. Officially.

They only have the Photo left. There is nothing else. No other photos, no video, nothing.

But the consequences of evidence that the Last/Pool photo was in fact taken on Sunday 29/4/7 are devastating.

So they will fight to the death to prevent that conclusion being considered.

by Liz Eagles 10.05.18 21:46

I have been a loyal member of the forum for many years. I don't understand why Petermac chooses to leave and comments through a third party.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Post moved. Mod

by **Jill Havern** 10.05.18 22:50

aquila wrote:I have been a loyal member of the forum for many years. I don't understand why Petermac chooses to leave and comments through a third party.

I believe you're on the wrong thread with this question and possibly meant to post it on the Textusa/Last Photo thread, and maybe Verdi will move it for me, but to answer your question:

1. PeterMac is very busy with research for his e-book, and has taken a step back to concentrate his efforts on this case in general. His last chapter alone took several weeks of intense research. That was his 27th chapter. Plus he was busy helping the MMRG with the letter to Portugal which took months of careful planning. He also communicates with many people like Gonçalo Amaral, Natasha Donn, Paulo Reis, Pat Brown, Sonia Poulton, Tony Bennett, Richard D. Hall, Sharon, Lizzy and myself, so is likely bombarded with emails on a daily basis.

Perhaps if you consider all that you will see that he simply doesn't have time. Not only that but he has a very nice life in lovely, sunny Spain!

2. I email him a question, he answers me, I ask if I can post it on the forum and he either says "Yes" or "No".

by Verdi 11.05.18 1:49

Gerry McCann was caught on camera losing his cool when asked about their involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine, their daughter. I can't locate the particular interview at the moment but it was one of those occasions when he demanded proof and/or justification for allegations made against them.

So Mr McCann, rather than making demands to protect your claimed innocence, why not you provide proof that your daughter Madeleine was at the poolside with you and her sister early afternoon on Thursday 3rd May 2007. While you're at it, maybe you could also provide proof that Madeleine was alive and well and enjoying her holiday on any day of that week, after Sunday 29th April 2007.

From where I'm standing, I find your movements during the week very strange. You're movements were furtive, you alienated yourselves from daily family activities, concentrating only on your tennis play and of course your evenings as a group, or partial group, dining at the Tapas restaurant. I find it strange that you take your three very young children on a weeks holiday to Portugal when you had no intention of spending quality time with them. Why didn't you leave the children in the UK with family? You say that the children preferred to be at the daycare facilities provided by Warners but did you ask them or did you just dump them at the crèche so you could go off and do your adult stuff?

Madeleine, Sean and Amelie are, sorry were, your children, not Gonçalo Amaral's, or any one else you wish to blame - they are your responsibility and yours alone, so why not take that responsibility in hand and actually do something for yourselves.

The blame for your daughter's disappearance lies firmly at your door - stop trying to pass the buck. Stop demanding of others to provide proof and start providing proof to placate your own precarious position..

The ball is in your court !

by Liz Eagles 11.05.18 10:14

Jill Havern wrote:
aquila wrote:I have been a loyal member of the forum for many years. I don't understand why Petermac chooses to leave and comments through a third party.
I believe you're on the wrong thread with this question and possibly meant to post it on the Textusa/Last Photo thread, and maybe Verdi will move it for me, but to answer your question:

1. PeterMac is very busy with research for his e-book, and has taken a step back to concentrate his efforts on this case in general. His last chapter alone took several weeks of intense research. That was his 27th chapter. Plus he was busy helping the MMRG with the letter to Portugal which took months of careful planning. He also communicates with many people like Gonçalo Amaral, Natasha Donn, Paulo Reis, Pat Brown, Sonia Poulton, Tony Bennett, Richard D. Hall, Sharon, Lizzy and myself, so is likely bombarded with emails on a daily basis.

Perhaps if you consider all that you will see that he simply doesn't have time. Not only that but he has a very nice life in lovely, sunny Spain!

2. I email him a question, he answers me, I ask if I can post it on the forum and he either says "Yes" or "No".

I probably didn't go about things in the right way nevertheless I have put to bed any criticism of Petermac and criticism of the forum.

I have challenged everything Tony and Peter have presented to the point I am a pain in the bum!

I find Tony to be completely correct about the Smith sighting and I find Peter's dedication amazing.

by Verdi 11.05.18 12:43

.... and Textusa's long winded pontifications an omnibus of nonsense.

They only have the Photo left. There is nothing else. No other photos, no video, nothing.

Amen!

by Guest 11.05.18 16:45

Here's a question for the McCanns.

Question: Do you have pictures of Madeline from April 29th to May 3rd that we can see or did you only take 3 or 4 in four days?

It's pretty simple.

I'm sure they would like to get this monkey off their backs and I don't see any objection to them providing the pictures.

It would help the search, surely?

If family and friends of the McCanns are reading this then maybe they could put it to them. It makes sense.

by willowthewisp 11.05.18 16:56

BlueBag wrote:Here's a question for the McCanns.

Question: Do you have pictures of Madeline from April 29th to May 3rd that we can see or did you only take 3 or 4 in four days?

It's pretty simple.

I'm sure they would like to get this monkey off their backs and I don't see any objection to them providing the pictures.

It would help the search, surely?

If family and friends of the McCanns are reading this then maybe they could put it to them. It makes sense.

Hi Bluebag,perhaps Big Jim Gamble could release all of those pictures submitted by the public of Madeleine captured in and around the Mark Warner complex or didn't anybody have pictures in their possession,a Mr Philip Edmond claimed he had pictures of a little girl playing with his sons on Thursday 3 May 2007,but he never released them to Mr Antony Bennett for verification purposes?

by Cookiecat 11.05.18 18:59

Well said Bluebag.. more withheld supposed evidence maybe they will release the photos in another 5 years ehhem cough .. why were they allowed control over the camera and didn't immediately hand it over incase 'the stalker 'was in background of holiday snap ?No they got control over pictures to be released it gets stranger and stranger but then they deleted phone calls and didn't allow access to credit cards ,why try to help when you know the truth ! The mobile deleting from phone handset doesn't delete from mobile network record ..and credit card info could be with police if police requsted them . They would have had full disclosure .. which good old Grange apparently didn't..requst or with holding ?? Crumbs

by **Jill Havern** 13.05.18 19:06

More excellent research for another chapter (Appendix) to Peter's Last Photo, (that has been sent to Operation Grange and Portugal) that answers some responses we've seen on this forum and elsewhere, and we must now ask:

Balance of probabilities ?

or are we yet at

Beyond a reasonable doubt ?

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/chapter-28-two-photos-which-tell.html

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