POLL added: Have the McCanns really avoided all mention of the Smithman sighting?

I voted 4.

I seem to remember Richard Hall saying he tried to get a statement from Mr. Smith for The Phantoms video, I am pretty sure it's mentioned in the video dialogue, but didn't get a reply.
Afterwards, Mr. Smith complains by e-mail that he has been mis-represented about how well he knew Robert Murat. He had chance to say what happened and turned the offer down.

In my opinion, all this sighting does is focus peoples minds on a Thursday evening abduction. and slightly off topic, Gemma O'Doherty the "investigative" journalist only adds weight to this "theory".
What about the days leading up to Thursday? Are they worth investigating? Very much so I would think.

Woof woof!

Has it ever been considered that two or three agencies where sent out without telling each other? Say, Murat was working for a section of police was sent out at short notice to find out as much info as possible. Meanwhile MI5/SIS turned up too poking around. 
Then the ballsup occurred. Murat was fingered. And somebody therefore said, you can't do that. He one of ours. By then the Portuguese oblivious to it all went full steam for Murat. Then the Brits had to concoct an alibi for Murat by recruiting Smith. Who made his sighting up. Tannerman turned into made up Crechman again made up. 
But don't worry Smith mentioned Gerry because with enough confusion we can say Gerry  was still arsing around the ocean club at that time.

MRNOODLES wrote:Has it ever been considered that two or three agencies where sent out without telling each other? Say, Murat was working for a section of police was sent out at short notice to find out as much info as possible. Meanwhile MI5/SIS turned up too poking around. 
Then the ballsup occurred. Murat was fingered. And somebody therefore said, you can't do that. He one of ours. By then the Portuguese oblivious to it all went full steam for Murat. Then the Brits had to concoct an alibi for Murat by recruiting Smith. Who made his sighting up. Tannerman turned into made up Crechman again made up. 
But don't worry Smith mentioned Gerry because with enough confusion we can say Gerry  was still arsing around the ocean club at that time.

Creative - 'Blue Sky' thinking - out of the box - lateral thinking - whatever...

Wow! MRNOODLES! that could be coming very close indeed!

See posts along similar lines by Copodonieve and Rogue-a-Tory -

- but you have added another dimension.

IMO this ticks a heck of a lot of boxes in this case

MRNOODLES wrote:Has it ever been considered that two or three agencies where sent out without telling each other? Say, Murat was working for a section of police was sent out at short notice to find out as much info as possible. Meanwhile MI5/SIS turned up too poking around. 
Then the ballsup occurred. Murat was fingered. And somebody therefore said, you can't do that. He one of ours. By then the Portuguese oblivious to it all went full steam for Murat. Then the Brits had to concoct an alibi for Murat by recruiting Smith. Who made his sighting up. Tannerman turned into made up Crechman again made up. 
But don't worry Smith mentioned Gerry because with enough confusion we can say Gerry  was still arsing around the ocean club at that time.

And with all these powerful "agencies sent out there"  the best they could do was find some grandfather from Drogheda who had retired from working for a food distribution company in his home town and who was there with his children and grand-children. He agreed to get his whole family, including children, involved and  encouraged his children to give false statements to the police? This was really the best MI5 et al could do - recruit a man who would point the finger at Gerry and reiterate that accusation ten years on? What a complicated, ineffective way of doing things! Wouldn't it have been much simpler for these " powerful agencies" to just have provided a rock solid, respectable alibi for Murat who would swear they were together from say 8 p.m. til eleven?  Job done - Murat in the clear!

But it wasn't the whole family, it was just 3 of them.

Furthermore, he wasn't just a granddad from Drogheda, he owned property in PDL.  Just look at how many of the McCann witnesses either owned property or were ex-pats over there.

Witness statements taken by the PJ on 26th May 2007 - the first known. It's extremely important to ask why it was left so long between Madeleine's alleged disappearance and the decision to speak about the alleged sighting ..

Martin Smith
Aoife Smith
Peter Daniel Smith
----------

From: DC Hughes
Sent: Thursday, 20th September, 2007 15:42
CC: Prior Stuart
Re: FW: Smith Family

This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann. For your information.
----------

From: Long Lindsay
Sent: 20th September, 2007 11:37
CC: Hughes John (DC)
Re: Smith Family

Rec via: TELEPHONE Series: 241 Ident: BC19-8286-1055 20/09/07
Telephone: *********
Locale: Portugal/Out of country
Origin: Mr. Martin Smith 'Ireland

Text: Reported that he passed a male carrying a child in Praia da Luz the night Maddie went missing. Went and made a statement to Portugal police in Portimao on 26th of May and returned to the U.K. Is saying that after seeing McCANNS on the news on 9th of September when they returned to the U.K. He has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me.
----------

Policia Judiciaria

NUIPC 201-070 GALGS

NOTE

On this date I state for the files that at about 12.12 I had telephone contact with the witness Martin Smith, by means of phone number ********* who referred to the communication he made on 20-09-2007 to the British authorities, that confirms his sighting and showing his full availability to travel to Portugal with the aim of making statements and collaborating with this police in all the diligences that could be considered necessary concerning these events.

Portimao, 27th September 2007

Signed

Inspector Paiva
----------

NUIP 201/07 o GALGS
4' Brigada Information

We can infer, from the analysis of the information contained in folios 2871 and 2872, that the statement of Martin Smith, duly identified and filed as folio 1606, reports new elements.

This information alleges that upon catching sight of Gerald McCann on the television news, when he (GM) arrived at the UK and still at the airport, he (GM) appeared to him to be the individual whom he saw on 3rd May in Praia da Luz, carrying a child.

As a result of this and because of the fact of the witness being resident in Ireland, we contacted an officer from the Irish force for the Iberian Peninsula, in Madrid, Bernard Gattney, who took on the task of carrying out the necessary arrangements in order to proceed to a new questioning of Martin Smith.

He was sent by email a copy of the information including the witness statement, and a list of questions to ask him, duly translated into English.
Portimao, 8th November 2007
Inspector

Joao Carlos
----------

Email sent from Joao Carlos Silva Pereira to Bernard Gattney

8th November 2007
Subject: Martin Smith

Bernard ,

According to our phone contact, I hereby enclose the report on Martin Smith, son of P S and C S, born in Ireland on *****, and an Irish citizen, passport n' *****, home address*****.

Following the enclosed report you are now kindly requested to ask him the following questions:

- Does he confirm the statement he made in Portugal on May 26th 2007?

- Can he describe in detail the individual he saw carrying a child on May 3rd 2007, notwithstanding the fact that he has already made this description in his previous statements? Was this individual alone?

- When and in what mass medium has he seen the news of Gerald McCann going down the plane stairs, and carrying one of his children? (If possible he should be shown the above-mentioned pictures, as well as asked whether he confirms or disconfirms this man was the same individual he saw on May 3rd 2007).

- Was it really Gerry McCann? Is he sure of this fact?

- Does he recognise Gerald McCann from the facial features or from the way he was carrying the child?

- Are his family members, namely the ones who were with him on May 3rd 2007, able to recognise the individual? If yes, do they also identify the individual as being Gerald McCann? (If yes, such family members should also be interviewed with a view to equally answering the above questions).

- Any other possible significant question, whether arising from the answers of Martin Smith to the above questions or that is deemed as relevant, should be equally asked.

3993 to 3994 – Portuguese translation of email from Prior
re: Smith statement 2007.09.20
----------

Email from John Hughes to DIC Portimao, C.C. to Stuart Prior

20th September 2007

Subject: Fwd Smith family

From Lindsay Long to John Hughes

20th September 2007

Re – Smith family

Location : Portugal Out of Force Area

Origin: Mr Martin Smith Ireland.

Text: Reported that he had passed a male carrying a child in Praia da Luz the night Maddie went missing. Went and made a statement to Portugal police in Portimao on 26th May and returned to UK. Is saying that after seeing the McCanns on the news on 9th Sept when they returned to UK he has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 PM on BBC and saw the McCanns getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the male seen the night Maddie went missing . He also watched ITV news and Sky news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children.

Is asking a member of OP task ring him back. He was with group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite worried and shaken whilst speaking to me.
----------

Detective Branch
Drogheda
County Lough

Re – Investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested. His wife does not want to make another statement. I showed him the video clip and he stated that it was not the clip that alerted him but the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

Forwarded please

Sergeant

Liam Hogan

I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if i state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
----------

The PJ, or any other competent police force, would be anxious to re-interview a witness who claims 60-80% recognition of a possible person of interest because of the way the stranger turned his head down and maybe the way he was carrying a child?

Stuart 'call me Stu' Prior features prominently as a coordinator in this exchange of correspondence

I know that many people think it's a crazy idea that Martin Smith made much of the way in which Gerry McCann carried Sean down the plane steps and across the tarmac upon arrival back in the UK.

I remember the first time I saw the clip too. My first reaction was "What's wrong with that child?" He seemed to look so lifeless, with his left arm just dangling, and so 'vertical' (silly word I know, just can't think of any other way to describe it).

This is one of the reasons I believe Martin Smith. If the man they passed on 3rd May was carrying a female child in a very similar way, I can understand it resonating with him as an instant flashback.

I really do not care if readers think this is ludicrous etc, etc, because it was my own reaction - not an opinion.

Only three of them agreed to give FORMAL statements to the P.J., including a reference to what Tadgh, then aged 13, recalled about the man's and child's clothing. They co-owned an apartment in a complex built by a fellow Drogheda property developer. I see nothing odd about that. In the run-up to the Irish financial crash and bail out by the Troika every Tom, Dick and Harry in this country went mad investing in property, especially overseas. That's what crippled us financially!
Out of the entire, extensive, British ex-pat community, M15 and the other British Secret Service agencies allegedly involved in this cover-up could not find a single person who would agree to say "Robert came to me that evening to discuss X"? They were reduced to contacting an Irish grandfather and his family who were back in their own country? That, to me, seems incredible.

I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

polyenne wrote:I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

Agreed. The fact that option 4 appears to be the ONLY one that allows for an earlier death is the reason I haven't voted. I believe Madeleine was dead before the night of May 3rd AND that the McCanns are rattled by Martin Smiths claim that he saw Gerry up to no good.

.

Martin Smith wrote: I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.

Policia Judiciaria

NUIPC 201-070 GALGS

NOTE

On this date I state for the files that at about 12.12 I had telephone contact with the witness Martin Smith, by means of phone number ********* who referred to the communication he made on 20-09-2007 to the British authorities, that confirms his sighting and showing his full availability to travel to Portugal with the aim of making statements and collaborating with this police in all the diligences that could be considered necessary concerning these events.

Portimao, 27th September 2007

Signed

Inspector Paiva
----------

I venture to suggest it highly unlikely the Portuguese authorities would be interested in re-interviewing on such flimsy evidence - it's on record anyway.

This is an elaborate hoax and it appears to have hoodwinked quite few. As I previously said, for those who are a bit vague about the subject - if interested in seeing the bigger picture, read through the many Smithman threads here on CMoMM to get a better understanding as to why the Smithman sighting is the subject of so much controversy and lays itself open to so much doubt.

Only Martin Smith, Aoife Smith and Peter Smith gave official statements to the police on 26th May 2007 - that's 23 days after the alleged sighting.

polyenne wrote:I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

Rattled why - about what?

Adopt your suggested criteria and the poll options could run into the hundreds and become extremely tedious. Simple way around it - rather than vote in the poll, just express your opinion by way of a post.

Short and sweet like a donkey's gallop!

Phoebe wrote:

polyenne wrote:I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

Agreed. The fact that option 4 appears to be the ONLY one that allows for an earlier death is the reason I haven't voted. I believe Madeleine was dead before the night of May 3rd AND that the McCanns are rattled by Martin Smiths claim that he saw Gerry up to no good.

I wrote Option 1 like that for the benefit of those who believe Maddie died on 3rd May and that Gerry is Smithman - the Poll is open to guests and quite a few people on twitter and facebook believe that.

I tried to look at it from all angles but clearly didn't write all the options correctly, soz

Verdi, it wasn’t me who used “rattled”, I merely reproduced the word from the poll.

FWIW, I voted Option 1 but also believe Madeleine died much earlier

Yes, I picked up the word 'rattled' from someone's post to use in Option 1.

At the time Smith made his statements that he was up to 80% sure that he had seen Gerry, the McCanns had just fled Portugal having been made suspects in their daughter's disappearance. The dogs findings of cadaver odour and blood in the apartment, car etc. were gripping the headlines. I believe that if I were in their predicament I would be very "rattled" about such a development. There they were, desperately trying to convince the world that their daughter was abducted by a stranger/s while they were at dinner in the Tapas Bar. Along comes a man who gives a formal police statement claiming that he saw Gerry elsewhere at the relevant time, carrying away an unresponsive, little, blonde girl. No wonder they hired lawyers who specialized in avoiding extradition and refused to return for a reconstruction.

No wonder they hired lawyers who specialized in avoiding extradition....”


All paid for by those generous donations requested to help in the SEARCH

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

Phoebe wrote:

polyenne wrote:I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

Agreed. The fact that option 4 appears to be the ONLY one that allows for an earlier death is the reason I haven't voted. I believe Madeleine was dead before the night of May 3rd AND that the McCanns are rattled by Martin Smiths claim that he saw Gerry up to no good.

I wrote Option 1 like that for the benefit of those who believe Maddie died on 3rd May and that Gerry is Smithman - the Poll is open to guests and quite a few people on twitter and facebook believe that.

I tried to look at it from all angles but clearly didn't write all the options correctly, soz

Thank you Jill, I am one who strongly believes Gerry is Smithman, and that Maddie met her demise on 3rd May

pennylane wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

Phoebe wrote:

polyenne wrote:I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

Agreed. The fact that option 4 appears to be the ONLY one that allows for an earlier death is the reason I haven't voted. I believe Madeleine was dead before the night of May 3rd AND that the McCanns are rattled by Martin Smiths claim that he saw Gerry up to no good.

I wrote Option 1 like that for the benefit of those who believe Maddie died on 3rd May and that Gerry is Smithman - the Poll is open to guests and quite a few people on twitter and facebook believe that.

I tried to look at it from all angles but clearly didn't write all the options correctly, soz

Thank you Jill, I am one who strongly believes Gerry is Smithman, and that Maddie met her demise on 3rd May

Yes, I know you are pennylane, I actually thought of you but not the others who believe Maddie died earlier.

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

Phoebe wrote:

polyenne wrote:I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

Agreed. The fact that option 4 appears to be the ONLY one that allows for an earlier death is the reason I haven't voted. I believe Madeleine was dead before the night of May 3rd AND that the McCanns are rattled by Martin Smiths claim that he saw Gerry up to no good.

I wrote Option 1 like that for the benefit of those who believe Maddie died on 3rd May and that Gerry is Smithman - the Poll is open to guests and quite a few people on twitter and facebook believe that.

I tried to look at it from all angles but clearly didn't write all the options correctly, soz

Thank you Jill, I am one who strongly believes Gerry is Smithman, and that Maddie met her demise on 3rd May

Yes, I know you are pennylane, I actually thought of you but not the others who believe Maddie died earlier.

Do I sense another Smithman poll on the horizon

I would add another option, but unfortunately there's a certain person from twitter who's been sabotaging the Poll anyway and comes here to vote as a guest on various devices, iPhones, and browsers to inform us that 'Gerry is Smithman'.

Just this afternoon, for instance, he's voted 6 times.

pennylane wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

Phoebe wrote:

polyenne wrote:I note poll option 4 is running away with it but I wonder if, had option 1 started with "I believe Maddie died days earlier and the McCanns are rattled.......", the votes cast would be the same ?

Agreed. The fact that option 4 appears to be the ONLY one that allows for an earlier death is the reason I haven't voted. I believe Madeleine was dead before the night of May 3rd AND that the McCanns are rattled by Martin Smiths claim that he saw Gerry up to no good.

I wrote Option 1 like that for the benefit of those who believe Maddie died on 3rd May and that Gerry is Smithman - the Poll is open to guests and quite a few people on twitter and facebook believe that.

I tried to look at it from all angles but clearly didn't write all the options correctly, soz

Thank you Jill, I am one who strongly believes Gerry is Smithman, and that Maddie met her demise on 3rd May

Yes, I know you are pennylane, I actually thought of you but not the others who believe Maddie died earlier.

Do I sense another Smithman poll on the horizon

If there is, I'd want everyone to post their option for me! I'm not doing it again on my own....!

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

I would add another option, but unfortunately there's a certain person from twitter who's been sabotaging the Poll anyway and comes here to vote as a guest on various devices, iPhones, and browsers to inform us that 'Gerry is Smithman'.

Just this afternoon, for instance, he's voted 6 times.

Crikey!

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
I wrote Option 1 like that for the benefit of those who believe Maddie died on 3rd May and that Gerry is Smithman - the Poll is open to guests and quite a few people on twitter and facebook believe that.

I tried to look at it from all angles but clearly didn't write all the options correctly, soz

Thank you Jill, I am one who strongly believes Gerry is Smithman, and that Maddie met her demise on 3rd May

Yes, I know you are pennylane, I actually thought of you but not the others who believe Maddie died earlier.

Do I sense another Smithman poll on the horizon

If there is, I'd want everyone to post their option for me! I'm not doing it again on my own....!

If you do decide to do another poll: No.1 is perfect for moi, except could add Maddie met demise on 3rd May, and G was carrying her in direction of the beach (as destination is unknown imo)

lemonbutter wrote:I know that many people think it's a crazy idea that Martin Smith made much of the way in which Gerry McCann carried Sean down the plane stepTs and across the tarmac upon arrival back in the UK.

I remember the first time I saw the clip too. My first reaction was "What's wrong with that child?" He seemed to look so lifeless, with his left arm just dangling, and so 'vertical' (silly word I know, just can't think of any other way to describe it).

This is one of the reasons I believe Martin Smith. If the man they passed on 3rd May was carrying a female child in a very similar way, I can understand it resonating with him as an instant flashback.
 

You couldn't ask for a closer reconstruction of GM coming down the road carrying a lifeless/sleeping Maddie, than that of GM coming down the plane steps and walking across the tarmac similarly carrying a lifeless/sleeping Sean.That's one heck of a reconstruction with bells on (imo)