Justice or Cover-up? (POLL included)

by **Jill Havern** 13.02.18 14:11

Once again, as Grange has asked for more funding, I want to raise the issue of whether people think the Maddie case will ultimately be Justice or a Cover-up (and I've done two Polls about this before).

Well, I'm doing another one !

1 . Funding for what ? There are only 4 detectives left - so we are told. There has been little if any news about visits to Praia da Luz or anywhere else for a very long time. So far as we can tell Brunt has not reported any 'breakthroughs', again for a very long time. So what are they doing ?

and then, perhaps more importantly. . .

2. What have they included in the interim report which went from the DSgt to DCI Wall, to the Det Ch Supt, to the Assistant Commissioner (Crime) - who briefed the Commissioner Cressida Dick, and was passed by the legal department before it went to the Home Office where it was taken apart by mandarins, before being included in the red box of the Home Sec. Amber Rudd and her deputy Caroline Noakes in order that they can answer to the House at Questions to the Home Secretary if it should arise.

We may deduce one of several possibilities:
1. Total conspiratorial cover up, which would implicate ALL THE ABOVE, and their entire departments and advisors. . .
2. That there is still something substantial being done, or to be done - whatever that may be
3. Something else, unspecified

1. Is this now out of the question? Even though they have not leaked, there are by now far too many people with knowledge of what has been happening, many now retired.

Which leads me to

2. This might range from "Find a dead patsy", to "Prepare a watertight prosecution file for Fraud", and "Liaison between Home Office and Foreign Office about extradition"

Or

3. Which for the moment eludes me

by **Jill Havern** 13.02.18 14:35

The results of the last two Polls:

2013

Justice or Cover-up? (POLL included) Justic10

2018

Justice or Cover-up? (POLL included) Justic11

by **Jill Havern** 13.02.18 15:20

If Grange/Government really did conclude with 'Justice', how many of those who trotted out the abduction theory would end up with either 'egg on their faces', reputations ruined, or be held to account for Misconduct in Public Office?

DCI Colin Sutton
DCI Ian Horrocks
Jim Gamble

DCI Andy Redwood
ex Met Asst Commissioner who lied on national TV
and many others...

How would all that be explained?

by willowthewisp 13.02.18 15:37

Get'emGonçalo wrote:If Grange/Government really did conclude with 'Justice', how many of those who trotted out the abduction theory would end up with either 'egg on their faces', reputations ruined, or be held to account for Misconduct in Public Office?

DCI Colin Sutton
DCI Ian Horrocks
Jim Gamble

DCI Andy Redwood
ex Met Asst Commissioner who lied on national TV
and many others...

How would all that be explained?

The elite from Government will always be protected and the infamous" Civil servants " blamed if need be?
They couldn't understand what their"Masters wanted" out of the procedures they aught to have followed,they are really clever people you know,they had years of practice at it,No MP's or Lords have interfered with children you know?
The only "Ones" they found out about were are now Dead!
for further proof of the protection of the elite,"No MP's Identities disclosed" on the Sex allegations within Parliament,yet if it happened Outside of the elite Members club,they would be named,So why are they different to members of the public on Criminal behaviour?

by Verdi 13.02.18 15:40

It is of course possible that this is a cosmetic exercise, a pre-cursor to the closing down of Operation Grange. What better way to leave the case in limbo - archived until further evidence comes to light, like never.

Not suggesting it will happen but it's a possibility. It's either that or continue the facade for an indefinite period until the 'final' last throw of the dice, the last ditch attempt to solve the case - the ruddy sensitive prime suspect that's been under the radar for the past x months, died unexpectedely of the bubonic plague.

Never mind, CMoMM (and friends) is always here to (proactively - cough) relentlessly continue the fight for justice in the name of Madeleine McCann. I'm sure the McCanns and their team will be buoyed by this excellent good news and reassurance. No fund needed, no legal fees, no need for defence lawyers, no ulterior motive, no personal effort required, no need for maximum security nor police protection - it's all free gratis and for nothing.

Now who could want for more?

grouphug

by JRP 13.02.18 15:59

A mention in the news recently of the Grange money running out, and within days it is followed up by news that the Met is asking the Government for more money.
What is the money for? The last we heard was that there was one line of inquiry left, the hunt to find of a woman in purple wasn't it?

An expanding number of people on social media and in real life are really angry, their focus is mainly on why are the McCann's getting so much money when other missing kids get very little or nothing. Others dwell on the neglect angle and saying the Mc's should be jailed for neglect.
But, however misguided their sentiments are, more and more people are making comment about the McCann's and Operation Grange and how wrong they feel it is.
There are many comments asking why they don't use their own money to search for their daughter, quite a few mention the £750,000 fund balance.
So while people miss the point ( Madeleine is dead, there was no neglect) the peoples anger surely cannot go unnoticed.

It doesn't seem to matter who is in government, or who is in charge of the case, or who leads the Met, or who retires and becomes a crime pundit, nothing changes. The search goes on, a source close to the family says the twosome are grateful, and the whole circus rolls on.

Why don't they just end the whole thing as an unsolved case? Why does it need to be seen to be a case which still has leads? Is it because if it is closed they'd have to answer FOI's or is that not true either?

I think somebody high up/famous or an official of some sort has to die of old age before this secretive case is cracked, I can't see that this level of protection is for two doctors who nobody had ever heard of.
It all comes out when somebody dies, I just hope I'm around to see it.

Anyway, sorry to waffle on... my answer is Cover-up

by Crackfox 13.02.18 16:03

I feel positive about this announcement, I think loose ends are possibly being tied up and this would account for keeping funding going until such a time as the PJ is ready to move. All the signs are bad for the McCanns IMO, as for the caution exercised by the media, I think they have to be cautious but the fact this story hadn't gone away and they now all seem to refer to a disappearance rather than an abduction and are drawing attention to how much money they are sitting on from the 'Find Madeleine Fund' whilst the taxpayer foots the bill suggests a significant shift IMO. This may be wishful thinking on my part and I will be devastated if I'm wrong.

by Verdi 13.02.18 16:04

Since when have the 'establishment' in all it's guises given a stuff about people or public opinion?

by JRP 13.02.18 16:08

Verdi wrote:Since when have the 'establishment' in all it's guises given a stuff about people or public opinion?

I prefer Eggheads where you get three choices, but is the answer Never?

by lemony snicket 13.02.18 16:24

Verdi wrote:Since when have the 'establishment' in all it's guises given a stuff about people or public opinion?

The masters of cover-ups and fake news.

by Verdi 13.02.18 21:29

lemony snicket wrote:
Verdi wrote:Since when have the 'establishment' in all it's guises given a stuff about people or public opinion?
The masters of cover-ups and fake news.

My god, you look like I feel affraid

!!!

by **Jill Havern** 14.02.18 10:06

91% still think Grange will be a cover-up at the moment.

In 2013 the 'Justice' camp won by a margin with 54%, but the 'Cover-up' camp won by a mile with 87% in the last Poll.

Let's hope DCI Nicola "I used to nick 'em so quick" Wall will do the decent thing for Maddie McCann, and prove the doubters wrong.

Please keep voting in the Poll thumbsup

by Mark Willis 14.02.18 10:45

Look at it this way. What is about the only thing governments do well? Cover things up.
It comes as no surprise the way the poll's going. It's a reflection of the global opinion. All you need to remember is the scrum of British security forces on Luz's doorstep from 4th May.
I have no idea why, currently, there is an air of palpable optimism across the Internet that this time Op Grange are about to arrest the McCanns. It was never going to happen and it never will.

by Phoebe 14.02.18 12:02

Whenever I hear people express the opinion that Operation Grange would never waste the amount of money it has done and continues to do, unless it intended to uncover and expose the truth, I find myself sighing. I sigh even louder when it is claimed that any cover up must come to an end soon.
34 years ago, in 1984, a dreadful miscarriage of justice occurred in Ireland in what has become known as "The Kerry Babies case". After this travesty of justice became undeniable Government was forced to establish a "Tribunal of Inquiry" supposedly to establish the truth.
The Kerry Babies Tribunal opened in Tralee on January 7, 1985, and ran for just 82 days. It cost the State, in those straitened days of economic depression in 1985, almost two million - ( well short of Op. Granges current total but we must remember this was 34 years ago and Ireland was broke)
Instead of delivering justice it sought to cover up and defend the very wrongdoing it had been established to investigate! In the words of one analyst -
"Joanne Hayes threatened the system, and powerful people who pulled the strings, elites who believed more in power than decency....She threatened the credibility of the State and those who controlled it."
Just exchange " Joanne Hayes" for "The Madeleine McCann Case" in the above phrase and one can see why the British Government cares not a whit for cost nor length of time when it comes to Op. Grange. Defending the system, the powerful people who pulled the strings and the credibility of the State is of paramount importance.
34 years on here, there is now talk of holding another inquiry into the flawed inquiry! I won't hold my breath for Grange to deliver!

by **Jill Havern** 14.02.18 12:07

But we have another country involved.

As one member posted on the CMOMM facebook group:

If I remember this correctly in the early days of the PJ investigation they believed that Madeleine died in the apartment .So my question is what are they doing about it now ? Are they acting like puppets for the British Establishment ?

by Verdi 14.02.18 12:30

Mark Willis wrote:I have no idea why, currently, there is an air of palpable optimism across the Internet that this time Op Grange are about to arrest the McCanns. It was never going to happen and it never will.

Amen

!

I read an uninteresting piece written by an equine cobbler only yesterday (link not possible), proclaiming Mr Bennett to have been right all along when suggesting that Operation Grange have not, are not, will not ever investigate the McCanns - correct so far but what follows that simple acknowledgement is the finest example of naivety I can recall seeing for a very long time. In short, apparently the government has no power, or even say, in how the UK police operate. Apparently, they can instigate an inquiry but they have no jurisdiction to order an investigation - thus, the McCanns will never be investigated. Now there's horse fodder for thought !?!.

As an aside, someone needs to draw attention to the fact that Mr Bennett doesn't hold the gold medal of honour for suspecting that Operation Grange is anything but legitimate so, whoever is behind this relentless campaign to destroy his reputation and this forum can stop crapping about.

Chief Inspector on spoons, Chief Constable on skittles, Duty Officer on ukulele and Kandohla on keyboard - music to the ears.

zulu

< ---- who he?

coffee2

by Mark Willis 14.02.18 14:21

Verdi wrote:
Mark Willis wrote:I have no idea why, currently, there is an air of palpable optimism across the Internet that this time Op Grange are about to arrest the McCanns. It was never going to happen and it never will.

Amen !
Bless you, my son

I read an uninteresting piece written by an equine cobbler only yesterday (link not possible), proclaiming Mr Bennett to have been right all along when suggesting that Operation Grange have not, are not, will not ever investigate the McCanns - correct so far but what follows that simple acknowledgement is the finest example of naivety I can recall seeing for a very long time. In short, apparently the government has no power, or even say, in how the UK police operate. Apparently, they can instigate an inquiry but they have no jurisdiction to order an investigation - thus, the McCanns will never be investigated. Now there's horse fodder for thought !?!.
Horse feathers! I, too, stumbled into the ironmonger's stable but all I found was the rear end of a pantomime horse, the front end still running at Chepstow...

As an aside, someone needs to draw attention to the fact that Mr Bennett doesn't hold the gold medal of honour for suspecting that Operation Grange is anything but legitimate so, whoever is behind this relentless campaign to destroy his reputation and this forum can stop crapping about.
Good luck with that, given that said metallurgical engineer's own reputation is currently being reforged in the lawless hinterland of Cristobel's Crucible, wherein they're vying to outdo one another's propensity for insulting everyone when not talking cobbler's awls.

Chief Inspector on spoons, Chief Constable on skittles, Duty Officer on ukulele and Kandohla on keyboard - music to the ears.
And a roll on the drums and a sandwich on the piano.

< ---- who he?
Ali Bongo?

Ah! So it's you in my coffee that ate the fly!

by polyenne 14.02.18 14:22

Portugal are our oldest ally. As such, they will be expected to "toe the line" regardless of the fact they are another country. It's just another step following the requested removal of Goncalo Amaral. Money talks, however it is provided and Portugal is only just starting to pull itself out of an economic recession that's been going on for a few years now (it's still only 36th in the world).

As has been mentioned many times, there are certain nefarious activities that are heavily reliant on facilitators. Such facilitators are there because "they" can be relied upon 100% and provide a veneer of respectability/innocence/legitimacy to the activity. Operation Grange is one such facilitator, it protects the guilty. It is an extension of those that truly run the Government.

Just like George Dubya was operated by Cheney & Rumsfeld, May/Cameron/Blair are simply marionettes of the puppet-masters.

I'm forever hopeful that, with their dying breath, someone heavily involved might just blab....but, at that point, why should they ? And there wouldn't be the opportunity to interrogate any further so they'd just be portrayed as a silly old demented fool.

The truth will never out but we must keep plugging away.

by Verity 14.02.18 14:54

It's disgusting that, as they're our oldest ally, the UK establishment see fit to describe them as sardine munchers, bungling cops etc, despite the fact it was the UK govt that bungled their investigation!

With allies like us, who needs enemies?

by polyenne 14.02.18 14:55

That's also what facilitators do, they deflect any responsibility

by Verdi 14.02.18 15:54

Get'emGonçalo wrote:But we have another country involved.

As one member posted on the CMOMM facebook group:

If I remember this correctly in the early days of the PJ investigation they believed that Madeleine died in the apartment .So my question is what are they doing about it now ? Are they acting like puppets for the British Establishment ?

Aha! The six million dollar question!

Back in the summer of 2007, the PJ were on track - they swiftly realised they were being hoodwinked by the McCanns and their friends, along came the specialist dogs, Eddie and Keela and things started to move forward. Problem being, the British heavy mob had already invaded Portuguese territory, trampling the PJ investigation into nothing but dust. I can't see any way the Portuguese police can move forward with an investigation, apart from any other reason, the important evidence is no more!

Snr Amaral was booted off the case, apparently for a little indiscretion (telling it like it was) and for the next few months the PJ fannied about shifting paperwork until the case was archived due to lack of evidence to move towards a prosecution - much the same situation as can be seen today. That is how it will continue because all the vital evidence, or should I say the only evidence, is being overlooked - even ignored.

Are the Portuguese acting like puppets for the British establilshment? I wouldn't like to hazard a guess but one thing can't be denied - the British establishment are 100% responsible. They took over the reins from the beginning making the PJ look like a bunch of sardine munching, boozy, incompetent lay-abouts in the process.

Well done UK - you can stick that monumental achievement up yer annuls as an example to future generations of Great Britain at it's finest!

by Verity 14.02.18 17:39

And didn't the PJ say that the McCann's had a certain amount of time to request that the investigation remained open, but the McCann's didn't ask them to, which is why the investigation was shelved? I wonder if the UK establishment advised the McCann's to let the deadline pass because they knew Operation Grange was going to start up in the future to look at the 'abduction', with the help of Rebekah Brooks?

by ufercoffy 14.02.18 23:58

They certainly did allow the deadline to pass, and so did ALL their family. Any one of them could have requested it to remain open even by writing a letter to the Portuguese prosecutor! Not one of them did.

Then they had the guts to say that NO police force was looking for Madeleine! unbelievable.

But at least they've got an ongoing police investigation now, looking for a non existent abductor, having already spent around £12 million and an open cheque book.

I wouldn't begrudge the millions being spent if it was really for the benefit of Madeleine and not her parents.

The least the McCanns can do is donate the Fund money to Operation Grange, after all the government are making cuts everywhere, to the police, the NHS etc, yet can find millions for the McCanns fables.

And didn't the McCanns once say they would sell their house to fund the search? Well, get on and do it then!

And Denise Fergus has just been told that James will still not get justice after 25 years because they've just refused a Public Inquiry. Thompson and Venables are being protected just as the McCanns are.

No justice for Madeleine. No justice for James. Only protection for the guilty.

by Verdi 15.02.18 1:54

ufercoffy wrote:They certainly did allow the deadline to pass, and so did ALL their family. Any one of them could have requested it to remain open even by writing a letter to the Portuguese prosecutor! Not one of them did.

It may sound odd, but in some ways we were glad the investigation had been closed. As I’ve said, we were far from convinced that there was any real investigation taking place anyway, so to have it officially brought to an end didn’t feel like as big a loss as might have been expected. While the PJ had continued to supply the usual response – ‘The official investigation continues. All credible lines of inquiry will be pursued’ – we had been receiving messages from concerned people who had tried to pass on information to the police, only to be told, ‘The child is dead.’ Now that this ‘investigation’ had concluded, reports could be channelled directly to our own team, which would give them, we hoped, more to go on. It was certainly better than nothing.

As for the dropping of our arguido status, it was hardly a cause for celebration. All it meant was that, after eleven months of being pilloried, we were back where we started. Madeleine was still missing and we still had to find her. All the same, it was a relief, of course. In spite of my disgust with the whole business, I could appreciate that not being an arguida was preferable to being an arguida and that Gerry and I were in a better position than we had been the day before. It was also a public acknowledgement that the Portuguese authorities had nothing to implicate us in Madeleine’s disappearance, just as we’d always insisted. And we hoped that some of the doors that had been closed to us since September 2007 would now reopen.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

Woof! Woof!

by jazega 15.02.18 3:34

Crackfox wrote:I feel positive about this announcement, I think loose ends are possibly being tied up and this would account for keeping funding going until such a time as the PJ is ready to move. All the signs are bad for the McCanns IMO, as for the caution exercised by the media, I think they have to be cautious but the fact this story hadn't gone away and they now all seem to refer to a disappearance rather than an abduction and are drawing attention to how much money they are sitting on from the 'Find Madeleine Fund' whilst the taxpayer foots the bill suggests a significant shift IMO. This may be wishful thinking on my part and I will be devastated if I'm wrong.

I hope you are right