Documented Evidence

Russell O'Brien rogatory

We were taken out of the airport and out onto the buses waiting nearby, we sat in the middle of the coach on the right hand side.  I recall that Charlotte PENNINGTON who was a nanny at Mark Warner was also sat on the bus- I believe that she looked after Fiona and Dave’s kids.

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

Charlotte Pennington, the fantasist, wasn't included on Mark Warner's initial list of seasonal workers for the summer of 2007, as her late arrival in Portugal I think would confirm.  Her name appeared later.

Charlotte Pennington, in at least one of her contradictory statements/interviews, claimed to have been a qualified childminder and had been working in the UK.

Was she employed at any stage by one of the Tapas group as a nanny?
Did she travel to Portugal with a faction of the group as a babysitter?  
Did she and/or another nanny babysit the group's children throughout that holiday week?  
Does she know at least some of the circumstances surrounding the alleged disappearance of Madeleine McCann?
Was she paid to mislead the investigation?

Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner again.  Or should that be the other way around as Jane Tanner would appear to be the leading light.

Russell O'Brien's witness statement - 11th May 2007

- Questioned whether problems exist between the couples, between each couple or with third parties, be these questions of professionalism or sentimental ones, or vices, states that he does not know of any.

Each couple has been together for many years and one of the points they have in common, is that there is an understanding between each couple and the couple between themselves. When he has the opportunity of meeting up with them, they pass time together, conversing and playing activities together, for fun.

Clarifies that the couple with who has done this less is the McCanns, but he also has no knowledge of any strange or complicated situation. He has no knowledge of vices, drugs and/or games, on behalf of anyone in the group.
....................

Hobs !!!

Russell O'Brien's rogatory interview - 10th April 2008

On the 3rd May 2007 I saw Madeleine in the morning a couple of times this was when I dropped Ella off. I took the kids up to breakfast at the Millennium club and walked to the Ocean Club I was late getting Ella there, the kids were having a great time at the kids club and all appeared to well. I went to the flat with Evie, whilst she was resting I read a book. When she woke up we went outside to watch Jane play tennis I saw Madeleine at lunchtime I can’t recall if Jane or I collected Ella it’s all a bit hazy now. I recall that Jane had been having a tennis lesson also there was Kate and Rachael.

We were watching some children have their lesson this was before lunch.

I recall that one of the guests a guy from Southampton came over his daughter was playing tennis, he wanted to take a picture but expressed to us how uncomfortable he felt in doing so- he said something similar to feeling like a pervert or a dirty old man when taking a picture of his own child, I do not wish to implicate him. I recall that the child was of a similar age to Madeleine and Ella.

I recall that Madeleine and Ella had had a similar lesson the day before. We agreed that in this day and age taking a photograph of your own child you shouldn’t be made to feel uncomfortable, it was a horrible coincident. I would like to stress that I do not think that this man had any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. I feel that it was a haunting coincidence.

I wonder what the understanding was. Anything to do with the pact of silence by any chance. Charlotte Pennington was working for Mark Warner as a nanny in the baby club. If she was also working for 2 of the Tapas 9, and Mark Warner knew this,then Mark Warner was complicit that Maddie was to go missing that week. Mark Warner must have employed her, cant see her turning up and installing herself. Could be a coincidence that she was on the same bus as the O' brien's, or it could just be that Mark Warner was expecting an influx of babies that particular week and she was on standby.

On the surface, it certainly seems a very odd thing to say. Trouble is, the interview is not recorded verbatim.  It's difficult enough to make sense out of the Tapas group nonsensical witness statements - worse still the rogatory interviews, without the added confusion of precised documentation.

It's wide open to supposition.

Meanwhile, Charlotte Pennington..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16384-nigel-moore-a-closer-look-at-charlotte-pennington#402450

Charlotte Pennington's statement of the 7th may 2007, is probably nearest the truth in my opinion anyway. I once had a close friend who was a semi famous singer/actress. She was also an alcoholic but that's by the by. My point is she was also a fantasist and a liar. These people are not in the real world, because she didn't  have a major part to play, I believe Miss Pennington scripted herself into the drama, reinventing herself more important in every interview she gave.

crusader wrote:Charlotte Pennington's statement of the 7th may 2007, is probably nearest the truth in my opinion anyway. I once had a close friend who was a semi famous singer/actress. She was also an alcoholic but that's by the by. My point is she was also a fantasist and a liar. These people are not in the real world, because she didn't  have a major part to play, I believe Miss Pennington scripted herself into the drama, reinventing herself more important in every interview she gave.

Couldn't agree more.

I still can't fathom how she came to be at the Ocean Club Praia da Luz in the first place, working as (I think she put it) an educator.

Haven't the time at present but it is a subject that has long since intrigued me. Apart from being a fantasist (my view also) the timing of her appearance and the subsequent reliance on her version of events by the media maelstrom raises an eyebrow - if you be a cyclops.

Ive just read A closer look at Charlotte Pennington by Nigel More, Thanks for that Verdi.

Just a couple of points,  he said Payne's left their2 kids in Maddies club, and twins with Cat Baker. I think Scarlett would have been in baby club with either Charlott or Pauline Mccann. If this is correct, then she would have known D Payne at least by sight.

Collins in his book Vanished, said Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien were next door to Mccann's. According to the arrivals list, they were in 5D, two doors away.

Charlotte pennington said she was at Mccann's flat within 5 minutes of alarm being raised.

According to Jacqueline Williams, Charlotte remained looking after other children who were waiting to be picked up. When all children were gone, Charlotte helped in the search.

Incidentally as I'm sure you know, Charlotte in her statement said it was 10-15 when an unknown woman came in and told them about  missing child.

I don't believe a word she says.

cr5_18 cr5_19 Leicestershire Police Force   Statement by Hayley Jane Plummer   Occupation: Nursery School Teacher   This statement consisting of two pages is true and in accordance with my understanding.   Date 6th May 2008   I work as a teacher at Laurels Nursery School, Melton Road, Queniborough, Leicestershire. I have worked full time for almost eight or nine years. I work alone in a class room and have eight children under my responsibility every day.   Laurels nursery school receives children aged between 6 weeks and school age and is divided in various classrooms in different buildings, where the children are grouped according to age and aptitude. I have worked in all the classrooms with children of all ages and at the moment I am in charge of children aged from 3 to 5 years.   I got to know Madeleine and her parents Kate and Gerry at the nursery school. I also spent time with them socially because my boyfriend James is Kateâ€s cousin. As a couple, James and I would take care of Madeleine and the twins in their house in Rothley about every two months, for a few hours each time. We would arrive at the house at about 19.00 – 19.30 when the twins were already asleep, but Madeleine was waiting for us and would be up for about half an hour. The routine followed would be to brush her teeth and tell her a story or two before going to sleep, followed by a brief passage through the twins room. Once she was alone Madeleine would generally fall asleep after 10 minutes and during my stays in their house she would never get out of bed after having fallen asleep. She would always sleep in her room. I do not remember Madeleine having been difficult when we were there.   Madeleine initially went to the nursery in the mornings but as she got older she would spend the whole day on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at the nursery – which she enjoyed very much. Kate would take care of Madeleine on Mondays and Fridays, often taking her for swimming lessons. I have known Madeleine for about three years and she was always under my responsibility at the Laurels nursery.   Kate and Gerry would take turns in dropping off and fetching her from the nursery.   Madeline was a very polite and affectionate girl, particularly in respect to the twins. At the nursery she was a very popular girl and it was a pleasure to have her near.   She seemed to be a very alert girl and she always adapted well. The only time I remember her feeling a little intimidated was when she changed classroom for the first time and she was placed with more children who were a bit older.   She would show some shyness when she was left by her parents but she adapted rapidly so that they would leave after she finished her breakfast.   Madeleine made many friends at the nursery but her best friend was Sophia. I think that Kate and Sophiaâ€s mother (Sally) became good friends based upon the friendship between their daughters.   Kate and Gerry were always very friendly with me, were polite and easy going.   Madeleine never showed any problems or worry she might have had, or show any behaviour that would cause any worry. I do not consider Madeleine to be hyperactive, she was a healthy girl with normal development for her age.   For me Madeleine is calm and easy to get on with.   I do not know whether Madeleine was subject to any kind of medication, I never had to give her any medication at the nursery or at home when I looked after her.   Gerry and Kate never appeared to have any type of problem in their relation with Madeleine. We would have regular meetings with the parents in the nursery and Kate and Gerry did not express any worry about Madeleine or her behaviour and they never appeared to be tired or frustrated in relation to their daughter.   I saw Madeleine for the last time on Thursday on the eve of her departure for holiday to Portugal. She was very enthusiastic with the trip, telling the teachers and the other children about it.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Post moved. Mod

ROSA, why have you posted a full witness statement on the 'Quote of the Day' thread - and without narrative?

I will move it, or delete as deemed necessary, if you have no good reason.

ROSA wrote:

cr5_18 cr5_19 Leicestershire Police Force   Statement by Hayley Jane Plummer   Occupation: Nursery School Teacher   This statement consisting of two pages is true and in accordance with my understanding.   Date 6th May 2008   I work as a teacher at Laurels Nursery School, Melton Road, Queniborough, Leicestershire. I have worked full time for almost eight or nine years. I work alone in a class room and have eight children under my responsibility every day.   Laurels nursery school receives children aged between 6 weeks and school age and is divided in various classrooms in different buildings, where the children are grouped according to age and aptitude. I have worked in all the classrooms with children of all ages and at the moment I am in charge of children aged from 3 to 5 years.   I got to know Madeleine and her parents Kate and Gerry at the nursery school. I also spent time with them socially because my boyfriend James is Kateâ€s cousin. As a couple, James and I would take care of Madeleine and the twins in their house in Rothley about every two months, for a few hours each time. We would arrive at the house at about 19.00 – 19.30 when the twins were already asleep, but Madeleine was waiting for us and would be up for about half an hour. The routine followed would be to brush her teeth and tell her a story or two before going to sleep, followed by a brief passage through the twins room. Once she was alone Madeleine would generally fall asleep after 10 minutes and during my stays in their house she would never get out of bed after having fallen asleep. She would always sleep in her room. I do not remember Madeleine having been difficult when we were there.   Madeleine initially went to the nursery in the mornings but as she got older she would spend the whole day on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at the nursery – which she enjoyed very much. Kate would take care of Madeleine on Mondays and Fridays, often taking her for swimming lessons. I have known Madeleine for about three years and she was always under my responsibility at the Laurels nursery.   Kate and Gerry would take turns in dropping off and fetching her from the nursery.   Madeline was a very polite and affectionate girl, particularly in respect to the twins. At the nursery she was a very popular girl and it was a pleasure to have her near.   She seemed to be a very alert girl and she always adapted well. The only time I remember her feeling a little intimidated was when she changed classroom for the first time and she was placed with more children who were a bit older.   She would show some shyness when she was left by her parents but she adapted rapidly so that they would leave after she finished her breakfast.   Madeleine made many friends at the nursery but her best friend was Sophia. I think that Kate and Sophiaâ€s mother (Sally) became good friends based upon the friendship between their daughters.   Kate and Gerry were always very friendly with me, were polite and easy going.   Madeleine never showed any problems or worry she might have had, or show any behaviour that would cause any worry. I do not consider Madeleine to be hyperactive, she was a healthy girl with normal development for her age.   For me Madeleine is calm and easy to get on with.   I do not know whether Madeleine was subject to any kind of medication, I never had to give her any medication at the nursery or at home when I looked after her.   Gerry and Kate never appeared to have any type of problem in their relation with Madeleine. We would have regular meetings with the parents in the nursery and Kate and Gerry did not express any worry about Madeleine or her behaviour and they never appeared to be tired or frustrated in relation to their daughter.   I saw Madeleine for the last time on Thursday on the eve of her departure for holiday to Portugal. She was very enthusiastic with the trip, telling the teachers and the other children about it.

idyllic!

13 Processo 13  Pages 3434 - 3436

TRANSLATION BY INES
Volume XIII Pages 3434 - 3436

Service Information 2007.11.14

To: Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
From: Joao Carlos, Inspector

Concerning the investigation of the disappearance of the British minor, Madeleine McCann, I present you Sir with the following:

On the 19th of October, we were contacted by the Commissary General, located in Madrid, by the Chief of the Kidnapping Unit, Alberto Carbas, who passed to us the information that the McCann family had contracted a Spanish company known as 'METODO 3', composed of Spanish private detectives. This business, or in other words, the costs of the activities of this business were being covered by a Scottish multi-millionaire whose name is BRIAN KENNEDY and whose objective was to locate the British minor.

With this information, we were asked if we were available and interested in meeting with a representative of this Spanish business, and also with the Commissary General and Chief of the Kidnapping Unit of the Police of our neighbouring country, whose operation is in Madrid.

The meeting had as its objective to receive on behalf of the private detectives, from that moment and for their own wishes, relevant information with the aim to ascertain the truth, and to state that they would not interfere in police work, and at most they would serve as a complement to some useful information. They firmly state that they are not working directly for the McCann family, but for Brian Kennedy and that their sole purpose is to locate the missing child, or to gather the inescapable truth of what happened.
They did not ask for any information regarding the investigation, nor was any offered to them, for obvious reasons as this is found incorporated in the Portuguese penal process.

On the 13th of the current year, in the presence of the signatory and inspectors Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Paiva, a meeting was held, in this department, with Brian Kennedy, the director of the detective company, Francisco Marco and an advisor of this same company, Antonio Jimenez, ex-chief of the Kidnapping Unit of Catalan. From the beginning, Brian Kennedy was questioned, and ascertained that the meeting only had this scope--of transmitting that his objective in all of this was purely charitable in that he is interested [in helping to stop] the bad treatment of minors and in missing children. He affirmed that he only was interested in discovering the truth and nothing more even if the McCann family, the friends, or any other person is found to be involved in the disappearance.

During the course of this meeting, the director of METODO 3 gave us a small book (attached), with information relative to the disappearance of the minor. This information, as we were told, was received via telephone and that they had already opened a line in Spain, specifically to receive and deal with information.

In this book, written in Spanish, we can analyse three pieces of information:

1. In the first case, we observed that there was report of facts which occurred in August/September of 2006, and which appears to us somewhat extemporaneous, as it cannot now be related to the material under investigation.
2. In the second point, we should remember that the computers of Sergey Malinka were searched and that nothing of suspicion was found there or related to paedophilia.
3. In that which concerns the third point, we are currently carrying out diligences with the intent to confirm or disprove the related information.

With nothing more to report.
Joao Carlos, Inspector

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIAN-KENNEDY.htm
....................

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16655-robert-murat-and-the-meeting-at-salsalito-burgau-on-tuesday-13-november-2007-clues-about-what-really-happened-to-madeleine-mccann

....................

If you'd like to discuss, please use this thread:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16656-the-mysteries-of-robert-murat-and-the-salsalito-summit-a-discussion-thread#408952

The 3 pieces of information:

1. refers to Margaret Hall, nanny, Ocean Club. She was babysitting  at
     5a (Mccann) flat, in 2006  and saw a man  hiding in the bushes. PJ files.

2. refers to pedophile material on Sergey Malinka's laptop. PJ files.

3. refers to a man called Manuel seeing someone who looked like

    Michaela Walczuch passing a bundle in a blanket over a fence
    PJ files.

Yes, thank you crusader - the PJ would have been aware of this for it was they who documented the report.

The point however is the report's relation to..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16656-the-mysteries-of-robert-murat-and-the-salsalito-summit-a-discussion-thread#408952

My apologies, I thought I made it clear.

Richard McCluskey - witness statement

Age 61

Retired

Statement Date 9/5/2007

On Saturday 05 May 2007 at approximately 01.50hrs I was with my wife Susan in the holiday resort of ALVOR, PORTUGAL. We were walking up the bank from the town of Alvor in order to return to our hotel, known as the Clube Alvorferias, after a night out. As we approached the junction I observed a white ford transit vehicle drive up the bank and stop well away from the kerb in the junction turning right, blocking traffic turning right. I would describe the vehicle as a flatbed 'transit' vat with a white cab area with white metal fold down side flaps/boards. I recognise the type of vehicle as I used to drive one. I did not notice whether it had any identifying marks of advertising on it.

As it had caught our attention I stopped and watched. I then observed a dark skinned male, well built, dark hair (page 1) get out of the vehicle and begin to stagger up the bank in a drunken manner. I could not see much detail because it was dark but I could see that he had cradled a child of about 3-4years over his left shoulder. Again I could not give anything else due to the darkness but it was clear that the child was not making any noise, or crying, or appear in distress. There was no movement at all.

I was aware that a child was missing in the area and therefore went and took the registration of the vehicle, which my wife wrote initially on her hand and later on a piece of paper.

I watched him stagger approx 200m up the bank and then turn right on a road into a complex area. It was at this point that the situation appeared very strange and so we decided to take the vehicle number.


As we were taking the number a woman appeared half running towards the van from the road on which the van was parked. She was clearly in distress and upon seeing us began to talk in Portuguese. We could not understand her and at this point we were the only other people on the street; but as we were talking a young Portuguese couple appeared from (page 2) the same direction as the woman in a small red vehicle and stopped. The male came over and was able to speak good English he translated what the woman was saying. In the conversation it became apparent that the couple had observed the male with the child in a situation further up the road and had seen the man hit the woman and had driven around the block and found the woman with us. He said he had phoned the police. Thinking everything was alright we left the couple, woman and van in situ and entered our apartment.

Statement continues with a description of what happened when they reported the incident.

Upon entering the apartment we put on Sky news and became aware of a news report about a young couple acting suspiciously in relation to the disappearance of the British child. I therefore went to complex and informed them of what I had seen and gave him the registration on the paper. We then returned to the area and saw the woman and the vehicle still in place. I returned to the apartment and after an hour hadn’t heard anything so I contacted the police. Eventually I got through to an English speaker and explained what had happened. The police stated they were sending someone to reception. I decided to go down and wait for them. As I got downstairs I could see two police in a patrol vehicle outside reception. The officers spoke English and I explained the situation and gave them another copy of the registration which we had written down. They told me they were dealing or had dealt with the situation. Then at about 03.15 we checked the area again and the van and woman had gone.

I can confirm that the registration was 3893 VL for the transit vehicle. I have also produced a hand-drawn map of the local area which I now produce as RMC/1.
Signed
R. McCluskey

There is a handwritten note in Portuguese on the statement :

It has already been checked! They are Ukrainians from Alvor with a blonde daughter who attends the “A Flor” crèche in Portimao.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

By FAX
Department of Criminal Investigation at PORTIMAO.

CONFIDENTIAL/URGENT.

To : Detective Chief Superintendent Robert Hall
Fax: 00441XXXXXXXXX
From: Goncalo Amaral - C.I.C. no D.I.C. de PortimAo
C/C : Fax:
Data: 07-05-2007 . No pages : 03
Ref : N / ref : Inq. 201107.0 GALGS
Subject : Request for Collaboration

In furtherance of your operation TASK and International Police Cooperation please see the following points:

1. Could you consider making enquiries to question JEREMY MICHAEL WILKINS (UK Passport No 205XXXXXX, DOB 24.02.1974) ?
Wilkins was staying at the Ocean Club resort at the time of Madeleine's disappearance and may have vital information. Wilkins lives at the following address, 23 MXXXXX RXXX, London, NWlX XXX. Wilkins is contactable on the following telephone numbers 00447XXXXXXXXX and 00442XXXXXXXXX.

We would like the following points covered if possible;

- Did Wilkins travel with anyone else?
- If he has children and what age are they?
- If he knows the group of people which MADELEINE MCCANN was part of and the apartment block where the guests were staying ?
- If he knows MADELEINE'S parents and in particular her father GERALD MCCANN ?
- When did he met GERALD MCCANN and in what circumstances ?
- Did he play tennis with GERALD McCANN ?
- Did he meet with him apart from playing tennis ?
- Did he come to know the routine of GERALD McCANN and his family (his wife and children ?
- If he did, when GERALD was having dinner with his wife and friends where were the children and how were they looked after ?
When was the last time he was with GERALD McCANN, when not playing tennis, before the disappearance of MADELEINE ?
- On the day of the disappearance, was JEREMY out with his children in the evening ?
- Did he meet GERALD and at what time ?
- Where was GERALD coming from at this time ?
- Exactly where was this meeting with GERALD ? (please obtain confirmation of the exact location on the attached map)
- What was the distance of this meeting from GERALD'S apartment ?
- Can Jeremy provide a sketch map of the location ?
- What did they talk about at this time and for how long ?
- When he was talking with GERALD, did any of Gerald's group pass by ?
- If so, who ?
- When he was talking with GERALD did he see whether anyone passed by carrying a child in the road near the apartment block ?

2. In the spirit of Police to Police Cooperation we request the presence of a British Criminal Analyst who may be able to assist the enquiry.

Also the collaboration of the UK's "Child Exploitation Online Protection" may be useful if they wish to send one of their officers to provide assistance to the investigation,

3. We would like further information (by telephonic analysis if thought necessary) relevant to the investigation about the following subjects :
- GERALD McCANN and KATE HEALY contactable on telephone numbers 00447XXXXXXXXX,00441XXXXXXXXX and 00447XXXXXXXXX.
- MATTHEW DAVID OLDFIELD and RACHAEL MAMPILLY, contactable on telephone numbers 00442XXXXXXXXX, 00447XXXXXXXXX and 00447XXXXXXXXX.
- RUSSEL JAMES O'BRIEN and JANE MICHELLE TANNER, contactable on telephone numbers 00447XXXXXXXXX and 00447XXXXXXXXX.
- DAVID ANTHONY PAYNE, contactable on telephone number 00441XXXXXXXXX, FIONA ELAINE PAYNE, contactable on telephone number 00441XXXXXXXXX and DIANNE WEBSTER, contactable on telephone number
00441XXXXXXXXX.

Namely if there is any indication of motive for anyone in the UK to kidnap the daughter of GERALD McCann ?

Regards

Coordinator of Criminal Investigation :

Goncalo Amaral.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

Jeremy Wilkins contacted the PJ on the 4th may 2007 to report Rasta man in tapas toilets. What made him suspicious of a man in the toilets I wonder.

In his 7-5-07 statement, he seems rather confused about his own kids.

He said his 8 month old son was in the Sharks club, and he went there, with Gerry and Matt to pick his kids up.

On Wednesday, he and his partner, ate at tapas where they found out all about the Mccann's routine of leaving the kids alone.

At 7-30 they, (wilkins & O' Donnell ) sat down to eat. This is where it starts getting, ( in my opinion) untruthful.

Wilkins said Gerry, and Russ arrived approximately 45 mins later, so say, 8-15, where Gerry spoke of leaving their kids alone in apartment.

At this time, Kate was putting kids to bed. (according to Wilkins ).

He ( Wilkins ) said, he spent approximately 15 to 20 minutes talking to Gerry, and they would go regularly to check on kids.

My point is, Wilkins must have left tapas approximately 8-30/ 8-35, by the time he left Gerry was with about 7 other people. So he couldn't have seen any checking going on.

Be very careful trying to make sense of anything anyone anywhere close to the McCanns has said.

I make no excuses for going over old ground again and again and again.  There are still folk out there painfully unaware of the gory details of this sad protracted case, still officially unsolved after twelve and a half years of deliberation.  For the benefit of the ill-informed, the casual observer and above all else 'Madeleine McCann', the show must go on..

This statement taken during David Payne's rogatory interview in April 2008 is truly quite remarkable.  Not the sort of description I would accept by a man talking of a friends three year old child.

1485 "Okay. I'd like you to describe Madeleine to me. What sort of a child she is and you know how you see her.'

Reply "Mm, err Madeleine's err a very striking err beautiful child, I'd almost if I want a better phrase call her doll-like, you know she was very, you know I think, you know very unique looking child err, she'd got very pretty, you know blonde hair err in a bob, she was quite a petite err child and you know she was very bubbly, very err you know she was a very good child to, to interact with.

She was very bright, you could have a lot of fun with Madeleine err and you know she, she was, you know Kate and Gerry's, you know pride and joy. They'd had a lot of trouble conceiving, you know with IVF and everything and you know Madeleine was their miracle. She was obviously very unique with the fact that she'd got the, you know the iris defect err but you know she was certainly a happy go lucky child you know she was, she would interact with the other children very well, as I said on the other, earlier recording, you know she played very happily with Lily and you know indeed the other children.

She was, you know, very, she is a very beautiful child and good fun.'

1485 "Mm.'

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

" You know , you know you know " 

Why don't you tell us what YOU know David Payne ? 

Or have you not found " the right forum " yet as told to DC Messiah in 2008 ?

Thanks for the reminder sandancer - leave no stone unturned and all that..

1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''

Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.'

1485 "Okay.

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

This is all straight from the horses mouth, no speculation nor supposition. Physician heal thyself !

PS: Don't forget the err err errs. More than 1000 matches in the rogatory interview alone .... that includes a few G-err-ys but I think we can include those with the 'more than'.

Interval for a touch of levity..

You know we, you know we didn't know what to do, we went running around you know err the safety of my own you know children, you know I started, you wanted to check that your own two are alright so I, some say I ran up to our apartment and checked they were alright.

He expects us to know what they didn't know themselves ? ?