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Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by BlueBag on 27.05.17 6:32

@Verdi wrote:

By the Sunday evening [13th May 2007], we found ourselves giving our statements again, this time to a couple of detectives from Control Risks. 
Control Risks have detectives?

"Control Risks is an independent, global risk consultancy specialising in helping organisations manage political, integrity and security risks in complex and hostile environments. We support clients by providing strategic consultancy, expert analysis and in-depth investigations, handling sensitive political issues and providing practical on-the-ground protection and support."
Is is not obvious from their own raison d'etre why they were there?

https://www.controlrisks.com/
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by skyrocket on 27.05.17 8:29

@Verdi - Goncalo Amaral was entirely correct when he said that Yvonne Martin believed she had come across David Payne before in her professional capacity, either as a witness or a suspect:


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm



--YVONNE describes the third individual as follows:
Aged about 35 years
Of about 1,80 metres in height
Of normal physical appearance
Having short, dark hair
Using graduated glasses of small dimensions with rectangular lenses
Having a round face
Presenting a scar above his eyebrow and on his left cheek

-
Speaking with a Southern English accent
Wearing light trousers, cream or beige coloured, and a dark polo shirt.

- When she was back home, following the case on English television, she saw the same individual and this time, her initial doubt faded and she concluded that she had seen the face in the course of her professional activity in child protection, not being able to discern if he was a suspect/arguido or witness

- She clarifies that she is capable of making a photographic identification of the individual, and emphasises that with the identified photo it is possible to access the database of the British Police and ascertain whether the individual is related to any crimes involving children

Bringing this to your attention,

Signed


José Monteiro


@HiDeHo - many thanks for organising the translation. You are doing an invaluable job. clapping
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by melisande on 27.05.17 8:49

Thats fantastic hi de ho. Great work by all involved getting  this translated and on youtube. I'm on holiday just now but looking forward to watching this when I get home.

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Verdi on 27.05.17 15:57

@skyrocket wrote:@Verdi - Goncalo Amaral was entirely correct when he said that Yvonne Martin believed she had come across David Payne before in her professional capacity, either as a witness or a suspect:
Thus you confirm my point @skyrocket by selecting random words and re-presenting out of context.  Whatever the mode of misrepresentation it doesn't alter the fact that some of Goncalo Amaral's words, as transcribed from this interview, are not accurate.  As I said originally, he is theorizing as he did back in the summer of 2007 (sounds like a shcool reunion), using witness statements as a base.  There is nothing revelationary to be found in this interview - it is but a reiteration of his theorizing and the PJ investigation during his time served as case coordinator.

If Dr Amaral has something explosive secreted then spectators must wait until such times as he feels it right to reveal - I don't think that will be by way of the media!  He knows above all others how manipulative and damaging they can be.

I repeat, this is not a criticism of Dr Amaral,  I don't believe this interview was intended to reveal anything sensational.  The important thing is that Goncalo Amaral has his voice back following the vindictive hounding by the McCanns and thanks to HiDeHo an English version!

Good to know you're still keeping a casual eye on my forum presence winkwink .


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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by skyrocket on 27.05.17 19:14

Just in case anyone is skimming through this - let's be clear about what Yvonne Martin said when referring specifically to David Payne (no word selection etc, just a complete copy/paste from the files). The paragraph below is directly from the statement that she gave to Inspector Jose Monteiro in June 2007, which was then sent on to Snr Amaral:

'When she was back home, following the case on English television, she saw the same individual and this time, her initial doubt faded and she concluded that she had seen the face in the course of her professional activity in child protection, not being able to discern if he was a suspect/arguido or witness'.



@Verdi - You're original statement (reproduced below) is clearly incorrect:

'He [Amaral] alludes to Yvonne Martin's statement referencing David Payne and law suits in england -  she did not know if he was a witness or suspect.  Yvonne Martin did not say that!  She said she thought she remembered him somewhere in the past in a professional capacity but couldn't be more specific'.



No actually, Yvonne Martin did not say that!


This may be a minor point but let's stick to the facts as represented in witness statements and let members/readers form their own opinions. I think the issue of Calpol Night has already been addressed. 
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Verdi on 27.05.17 22:07

@skyrocket #55

Slap on the wrist duly noted! 

Fortunately this thread isn't about me, it's about (or should be) the Portuguese video featuring Goncalo Amaral where he makes a number of generalisations about witness statement specifics.  My reason for making a broad statement in my original post about the testimonies of Yvonne Martin was because she made references to her recognition of David Payne on different occasions - all with evolving recollection.   I will however be sure in future to quote direct from the files, time permitting, rather than using a a global expression like, I quote myself.. " She said she thought she remembered him somewhere in the past in a professional capacity but couldn't be more specific'.  In the interest of accuracy..

Yvonne Martin's various accounts of her encounter with David Payne..

Yvonne Martin - witness statement June 2007

She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her.

then..

As she said earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks
that she may have come across him in the course of her work, as a suspect or witness.

Memo from Jose Monteiro to Goncalo Amaral

When she was back home, following the case on English television, she saw the same individual and this time, her initial doubt faded and she concluded that she had seen the face in the course of her professional activity in child protection, not being able to discern if he was a suspect/arguido or witness.

Yvonne Martin - November 2007 witness statement

With regards to the individual who was close to Madeleine's parents when she met them, and who was later identified as David Payne, she reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual intervened in a situation related to a professional activity of the witness. She clarifies that neither on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, can she remember concretely the place or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne, but that she continues to think that the same individual is familiar to her but cannot state the particular situation.

She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember.
----------

When taking Yvonne Martin's involvement on board, it's important to remember she also apparently sent an anonymous letter to the UK police outlining her suspicions.  For clarity here is the reference from the PJ files..

Processos Vol XIII Page 3421

Date : 2007-11-14

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Paolo Rebelo

From: Paolo Ferreira, Inspector

Service Information

Subject: Expedient related to Yvonne Warren Martin

In the sequence of the contents of the service information in annex, which was prepared by Inspector José Monteira on 12-06-2007, the questioning of Yvonne Warren Martin was twice begun, according to the files that are also joined to this.

The statement relates in detail her intervention with the McCann couple after having heard about Madeleine's disappearance.

She adds that on one occasion, because it had occurred to her that the parents and the friends could eventually be involved in the child's disappearance, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police.

The statements given to the PJ today by Yvonne Martin provide a concrete clarification of the reasons for her suspicions, which in my opinion, do not point to any concrete element that could, in any way, make other inquiries directly related to her statements, viable.

With nothing further to add.

Signed

Inspector Ferreira

There you have it dear reader - make up our own minds as to the veracity of this witness who appeared on the 4th May 2007 from out of the blue and for some reason sent an anonymous letter to the UK police about her suspicions.  Personally I have suspicions about the witness but that's not for this thread.
----------

To get back on topic and my original point, as can be seen from the video, I repeat.. "He alludes to Yvonne Martin's statement referencing David Payne and law suits in england".  This is inaccurate - Yvonne Martin made no claim about law suits in England relating to David Payne.  Clearly Dr Amaral would benefit from your invaluable advice.

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Phoebe on 28.05.17 1:23

In fairness there is information in this video that is more than a mere rehashing of what is in the files to which we now have access. For example, Dr Amaral speaks of Jez having seen a woman dressed in purple, smoking outside Jane Tanner's apartment. This detail is not in any file I have read so I assume it came from conversation with Jez during interviewing but was not recorded. Such an occurrence may well have happened in other interviews, meaning the P.J. at the time heard much more than we are able to access. Dr. Amaral firmly states his belief that all the children were left unattended, all, not just the McCann children, were given some form of sedation and that all of the Tapas 9 are therefore equally culpable of charges of neglect. This could be important as to the motive for the Tapas friends' willingness to lie about what had happened to Madeleine and seems to support the reason for Gerry's claim that the child-checking arrangements were a "collective decision". They could have felt that if the McCanns were charged with child neglect they would be too. If so, their decision to lie for the McCanns was them saving their own bacon. Dr. Amaral  also states his belief that that they all accessed their apartments through their unlocked patio doors, never passing by the front of the apartment block and that they were at pains to deny this. He gives the impression that some of the reason for Gerry's contradictory statements sprang from anxiety over what might be the penalty for admitting the children had been left in unsecured apartments. He was forced to change his story due to the police finding the front door keys in the apartment. Who know what discussions took place off the record between Martin Grime and the P.J.? The latter are not stupid, they must have questioned if it was possible for the cadaver odour to develop in the short time-frame available. Police on the ground during an active investigation are obviously party to all sorts of information. Hearsay evidence is inadmissible in court and doesn't get included in the book of evidence, but that does not mean it is valueless. The P.J. probably heard quite a lot that was not included in the official files but may well have informed their thinking. The same goes for those unwilling to make official statements who may have spoken to police but were loathe to make it official.
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Verdi on 28.05.17 14:24

@Phoebe wrote:In fairness there is information in this video that is more than a mere rehashing of what is in the files to which we now have access. For example, Dr Amaral speaks of Jez having seen a woman dressed in purple, smoking outside Jane Tanner's apartment. This detail is not in any file I have read so I assume it came from conversation with Jez during interviewing but was not recorded.
For the umpteenth time - Dr Amaral's theorizing during this video hasn't altered since his time served as case coordinator between May and October 2007 - at least not publicly.  The theorizing is founded primarily on the McCann groups witness statements and those of key players, who could all be viewed with suspicion.   Again I say, this is no criticism of Dr Amaral, whom I happen to hold in high esteem - his job was hampered from the beginning by UK interference.  How many times has he said that the McCanns and outside influence were leading the investigation.  The investigation was working towards the truth, Dr Amaral was timely removed from the case - the rest, as they say, is history!  That simple fact encompasses all your comments - it's what the McCanns and their friends told, which was/is very far from the truth. 

Of course intelligence is garnered during informal interviews and conversation but without knowing, from a public perspective, detail of this information it's useless to speculate.  Stick to what's in black and white and build on that, without uneccessary adornment invention, not what might or might not have been said.

Just for the record..

WITNESS TESTIMONY OF JEREMY WILKINS  -  April 2008

Q. Relative to the exact location you met Gerry

I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner.

Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner

Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
----------

Please, I beg you, don't say anything like - 'ah but he didn't say anything about smoking.  It's of no importance.

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by HiDeHo on 28.05.17 14:26

My personal belief is that the files give us only a small portion of the information available (10% maybe?)  The 'intelligence' at the time, the casual conversations with many, including the T9 that were never recorded but would have given lots of information that we are not privy to.

Goncalo often refers to details that are unknown to us.  His knowledge and comments may be included in the files or may be from his memory and 'intelligence' discussions.  He is unlikely to know exactly what was released in the files and the details that were not.  Hence the comments on details not in the files.  Maybe information gleaned from telephone calls, texts, emails etc that cannot be used in the investigation.

We have scrutinised the files but it would be hard to imagine exactly how much more information has been gleaned from unofficial conversations and investigations.  There are no official statements from Alice Stanley and Chris Unsworth, but that doesn't mean they didn't talk to them regarding the mini sail which was to supposedly have happened on Thursday morning.  One of the last times Maddie would have been seen. (or not seen).

The detail in the video about all of the T9 (except the Paynes) using the patio doors instead of the front doors leads to some interesting details that were not in the files and as far as I know, not inluded in the many discussions about Jane Tanner and bundleman.  The PJ were aware she did not go to the front doors and therefore the the sighting, which was the main evidence of an abduction, never happened.

This is something that I have not seen discussed (I would like to see the thread if I am wrong).

What this tells me is that either the T7 ALL left their patio doors open (which I dont believe is likely) OR that there was always someone in the apartment.  Possibly looking after the children?

I have many questions about some of the comments made in the video.

Why did the phone call from Vilamoura feature as important?

How could the key on the counter be evidence of anything?

Why does Goncalo suggest the case not coming to any conclusions was because of political pressure, when we know the case was due to be shelved in July as the 14 months (8 months plus 2 x 3 month extensions) after an arguido declared.

The three figures seen entering the church with a sack in July.  The hypothesis is that its possible that Maddie's body was put in the coffin of a lady.  Goncalo does not mean it DID happen, only that it is one of the many possibilites in the investigation.  Maybe there was another reason the three figures were going into the church with a sack....

I found lots of information in the video that is not widely known, or at least, not given the explanations or hypothesis from the files.

David Payne was (apparently) seen on the McCanns balcony by Mrs Fenn.  Its not something that is in the files but has been featured in other (non translated videos).  His suggestion that David Payne was there to help bathe the children was not something that had entered my head, and because I believe something happened earlier I tend to think it was more about the preparation of the 'abduction', but Goncalo offers it as a possibility.

We have been told by Goncalo Amaral that they received a report from FSS that Madeleine's blood was in the rental car (which they based the arguido interviews on apparently) but it was then claimed to have been changed.  Goncalo says that this report should exist and one day be found.  This is not something that we are privy to in the files.

I agree that any comments from Goncalo Amaral have been known from the beginning, but not all of them are included in the files or shared in discussions.



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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by HiDeHo on 28.05.17 14:47












Regarding the Vilamoura issue which is considered a mystery in the video... this was in SOL





FROM FILES wrote:Processos Vol XIII

Pages 3998 – 3999

External Activity Report

Date: 08 – 11 – 2007

Place: Vilamoura

Responsible Officers: García do Santos, Rodrigo & Ricardo Paiva, Inspectors


Description and result of activity

On this date at 23.50 we went to the Pacífico Bar, located in the Vilamoura Marina in the Marina Lusa complex.

There we personally contacted the owner of the bar, Aurélio Mendes Guerreiro, in order to find out in what circumstances two phone calls were made from the fixed telephone at the bar nº 289301562 to the mobile nº 447903108397 belonging to Kate Healy on 4th May 2007 at 00.47 and at 01.02.

Aurélio Guerreiro explained that both phone calls were made by him as he had been asked by an English lady who at the time of the events was in England, called Pat Perkins, who had been a client of his some years ago and used to spend her holidays in Vilamoura, asking him to help a British couple who were on holiday in P da L and whose daughter had gone missing.

According to what he said, Pat Perkins lives in Liverpool and is a friend of Kate Healy’s mother and was in Kate’s mother’s house when she phoned him to ask for help for the McCann couple. As it was not possible for him to go to P da L personally, he contacted the mobile number Pat Perkins had given him, saying it was the couple’s number and spoke in English with a man, whose identity he does not know and whom he told of his willingness to help in anything that was necessary in relation to the disappearance of the little girl, whom he later knew to be Madeleine McCann.

He added that a few days later, on 7th May, the same Pat Perkins sent him an email containing a request for help to find Madeleine and containing an annex with a photo of Madeleine for public distribution.

Joined in annex are photos of the bar and a copy of the email.


TRANSLATED BY INES
13 Processos Vol XIII Pages 3459 - 3461
13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3459
13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3460
13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3461
Witness Statement
 
Aurelio Mendes Guerreiro
 
Date: 2007-11-16
 
Location: Portimao DIC
 
Place of Work : Pacifico Bar, Vilamoura
 
He is the owner of the Pacifico Bar situated in the Vila Lusa building, rua Clube Nautico in Vilamoura, which has a land telephone line number ******. On the night of the events being investigated, the witness made two calls from the fixed line in the bar to the number ******** belonging to Kate McCann. These calls were made at a time he does not remember, but it was already night time, the first call was made at about 00.30 on 4th May 2007 and the second was made about 30 minutes later.
 
He clarifies that before making these calls he was contacted by an English customer and friend of his, called Pat Perkins who says that she was at the house of some friends in England, called Sue and Brian and that they had received the news that their grand daughter, who was staying in Lagos on holiday with her parents, had disappeared. Pat Perkins asked the witness to help the girl's parents as much as he could, giving him the number ******* to contact. The witness made a phone call to the PJ and another to the GNR to find out whether the authorities were aware of the disappearance and established that this was the case. On the other hand, after this he contacted the number he had been given by Pat Perkins to offer his help in any way he could be of use. He spoke twice to a male individual who spoke English. The first time that he rang he said that he was a friend of Pat Perkin's and then tried to find out if they had contacted the authorities and was told they had. He told the individual that he would find out whether the authorities were already making inquiries and get back in touch with him. He said that the individual did not really inform him about what had happened, in other words he did not tell him whether the girl had disappeared or been abducted or anything else.
 
The second time he phoned the number that Pat had given him he told the individual that the authorities were already involved in the situation and offered his help for whatever was necessary and making his telephone number available to the person he spoke to. When asked by the individual he said that he was in Vilamoura, about an hour away and the person told the witness that if he needed his help he would contact him later. After this the witness called Pat to tell her what he had found out and what he had done. He did not have any other contact with any other person related to the events and knows no more about the incident. He is totally unaware of the circumstances surrounding the disappearance apart from what he has heard from the news reports. But he adds that some days later, on 7th May, Pat sent him an email again asking him to help look for the girl and sending him a photograph of her. As said before, this was Pat Perkins who lives in Liverpool, England and who is a friend of Kate's mother and who was at Kate's mother's house when she phoned him to ask him to help the McCann couple.
 
No more is said. 
Reads, ratifies, signs
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Phoebe on 28.05.17 15:30

Well said HideHo. If the basis of investigation is based on no more than the official files then it it means the P.J., at the time and since, have no more information than I do, which is ludicrous. I beg to differ with Verdi regarding Jez's statement. What is recorded in the files tells us that she was stopped on the street outside one of the groups apartments. Dr. Amaral confirms she was outside her own apartment and yes she was smoking which may explain why she was "stopped" there (not as a look-out as has been suggested by some). When referring to the information about the three figures seen entering the side-door of the church around dawn, Dr. Amaral says "This information came to me in a certain way". For me, he is clearly alluding to unofficial sources which makes me believe the investigation had quite a lot of this type of information. With regard to the finding of the keys and Gerry's change of story we do not know how he was confronted with this information so that it caused his initial claims to crack. I think it highly unlikely that Dr. Amaral would reiterate his belief of what happened if he had any doubts or was mulling over other options. The investigators at the time have a huge advantage over those of us who were not directly involved. We were not party to the investigation and must rely on the released files. Dr. Amaral and the other investigators were there. They observed reactions to questions at first hand. Think what they gleaned from body language alone, something only they witnessed. For example, with regard to the Villamoura phone calls, all I have to go on is the written explanation given for them, whereas the officers who conducted this interview may well have reported back that the bar-owner was nervous and unconvincing during it. I remember a claim that David Payne had gone to help Kate so that the children could come out to play (were are told this was habitually after bathing and being dressed in their pyjamas). Perhaps Payne mentioned that his "help" was with this aspect when he spoke to police and this is what Dr. Amaral means. All those involved were interviewed at length. What made it into the files is but a precis of these encounters.
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by HiDeHo on 28.05.17 15:39

The smoking issue has always had me curious.  I don't know the laws in Portugal regarding smoking at that time and whethr it was allowed in the restaurant/ OC area but if not, it could have been the reason for them  to get up from the tables.

I also remember there was a reference (photo?) of three figures standing outside  smoking.  I can't recall the details on that but don't think its ever been established who it was.

Jez may have commented about the person in purple smoking in his conversations but didn't add it to his statement.  Only the clothing.

So much we don't know.
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.05.17 16:14

@HiDeHo wrote:@ HideHo    Stopping by for a moment or two to thank you and your translator very much for this most valuable effort. It is informative, whilst actually perhaps raising more questions than providing answers. Clearly the translation was by a Portuguese lady and it might be helpful to run it past someone whose mother tongue is English as that would give greater clarity and perhaps make a few passages of the transcript easier to grasp.  No criticism of anyone, just an observation.     

I have many questions about some of the comments made in the video.

REPLY: Yes, so do I.

Why did the phone call from Vilamoura feature as important?

REPLY: I don't understand that either. It seems a complete red herring, there is no corroborative evidence in support of a sighting and a great deal of evidence against it.

How could the key on the counter be evidence of anything?

REPLY: Indeed! Ask me another.

Why does Goncalo suggest the case not coming to any conclusions was because of political pressure, when we know the case was due to be shelved in July as the 14 months (8 months plus 2 x 3 month extensions) after an arguido declared.

REPLY: The evidence of 'political pressure;' is surely overwhelming, so I am 110% with Amaral on that one. We have:
1. Vast numbers of government, security services, Ambassadors, police and top PR men descending on  Prais da Luz in the first few days
2. Many more examples of government involvement in the months after that
3. Amaral denied the Gaspar statements
4. Amaral removed from the investigation probably due to British political pressure
5. Lukewarm approach by the PJ to the evidence after Amaral was removed from the case
6. Overwhelming evidence since 2008 of the British government covering up the truth...
..and so much more.        
 

The three figures seen entering the church with a sack in July.  The hypothesis is that it's possible that Maddie's body was put in the coffin of a lady.  Goncalo does not mean it DID happen, only that it is one of the many possibilites in the investigation.  Maybe there was another reason the three figures were going into the church with a sack...

REPLY: Yes, he does say elsewhere it is one of a number of possibilities. Every time I have seen mention of 'the widow in the coffin', I have looked in vain for these details:
A. Who is the source of this story?
B. What was the source doing out on the streets of Praia da Luz, at 3am/4am, in the morning, just before dawn?
C. When (on what precise date) did the source see these three shadowy figures, and
D. When did the source report his sighting - and to whom?

Can you - or anyone else - help with this please? 
   

I found lots of information in the video that is not widely known, or at least, not given the explanations or hypothesis from the files.

REPLY: I found a fair amount, but not 'lots'. I do disagree with respect that we only know '10%' of what the PJ know. I realize that some things have been held back, but I think no too many. We know an awful lot from those files!     

David Payne was (apparently) seen on the McCanns' balcony by Mrs Fenn.  Its not something that is in the files but has been featured in other (non translated videos).  His suggestion that David Payne was there to help bathe the children was not something that had entered my head, and because I believe something happened earlier I tend to think it was more about the preparation of the 'abduction', but Goncalo offers it as a possibility.

REPLY: There is evidence, as per the Tavares de Almeida Interim Report of 10 Sep 2007, that the 'crime scene' in the children's room was deliberately staged. If Madeleine suffered a significant event back on Sunday/Monday as some here think, then whether David Payne  or Matthew Oldfield or Russell O'Brien was seen on the balcony before or around 10.00pm on 3 May, it doesn't really matter. It would all be in connection with the preparation of the abduction scene. Amaral, still believing strongly that Madeleine died after 6pm on the Thursday, has in the past insinuated that something bad happened to Madeleine while David Payne was bathing her. I am unable to agree. The evidence to me is clear: the David Payne-Kate McCann meeting was probably fabricated just to lend weight to the claim that Madeleine was still alive at 6.30pm/7pm that Thursday evening.        
,
We have been told by Goncalo Amaral that they received a report from FSS that Madeleine's blood was in the rental car (which they based the arguido interviews on apparently) but it was then claimed to have been changed.  Goncalo says that this report should exist and one day be found.  This is not something that we are privy to in the files.

REPLY: I think Amaral may be 100% right about that. The PJ could well have removed that first document from the files after Amaral was booted off the case.

I agree that any comments from Goncalo Amaral have been known from the beginning, but not all of them are included in the files or shared in discussions.

REPLY: From about 19 minutes to 24 minutes on the video, Amaral dwells on Smithman and still seems to think that it would ne useful to interview the Smiths again. As is well known on CMOMM, I cannot possibly agree with him on that. I think it likely that no-one, for whatever reason, has yet been able to show him all the mountain of evidence that Martin Smith's brief and very tentative claim that he and his family saw Gerry carrying Madeleine that night has zero credibility.

Amaral thinks it reasonable for Martin Smith to have 'recognised' Gerry McCann from 'the way he was holding Sean' - especially four months after he only glimpsed the man for a second or two in the dark, adding on 26 May 2007: "I would never be able to recognise him if I saw him again".

I would like Amaral to see a Portuguese translation of the OPs in SMITHMAN1 to SMITHMAN 10.


And Richard Hall's second film: 'The Phantoms' >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL0-ePd3FCU
      
And I would like him to be aware of how Nuno Lourenco lied to him about Wojchiech Krokowski.



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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by HiDeHo on 28.05.17 17:19

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:@ HideHo    Stopping by for a moment or two to thank you and your translator very much for this most valuable effort. It is informative, whilst actually perhaps raising more questions than providing answers. Clearly the translation was by a Portuguese lady and it might be helpful to run it past someone whose mother tongue is English as that would give greater clarity and perhaps make a few passages of the transcript easier to grasp.  No criticism of anyone, just an observation.     

I have many questions about some of the comments made in the video.

REPLY: Yes, so do I.

Why did the phone call from Vilamoura feature as important?

REPLY: I don't understand that either. It seems a complete red herring, there is no corroborative evidence in support of a sighting and a great deal of evidence against it.

How could the key on the counter be evidence of anything?

REPLY: Indeed! Ask me another.

Why does Goncalo suggest the case not coming to any conclusions was because of political pressure, when we know the case was due to be shelved in July as the 14 months (8 months plus 2 x 3 month extensions) after an arguido declared.

REPLY: The evidence of 'political pressure;' is surely overwhelming, so I am 110% with Amaral on that one. We have:
1. Vast numbers of government, security services, Ambassadors, police and top PR men descending on  Prais da Luz in the first few days
2. Many more examples of government involvement in the months after that
3. Amaral denied the Gaspar statements
4. Amaral removed from the investigation probably due to British political pressure
5. Lukewarm approach by the PJ to the evidence after Amaral was removed from the case
6. Overwhelming evidence since 2008 of the British government covering up the truth...
..and so much more. 

HiDeHo reply:  I agree that there WAS political pressure as Goncalo expresses, however I was just pointing out that it was going to be shelved (or someone charged) in July.   Maybe he was referring to the fact that they SHOULD have been charged as opposed to shelving, had it not been for the political pressure.  I didn't mean that comment as a negative one towards Goncalo, only that the law was in place to shelve or charge someone anyway, which some people don't realise.  



Gonçalo Amaral interview in Fafe wrote:Gonçalo Amaral: Look, in an investigation… I cannot speak about the case, I’m forbidden. A criminal investigation has a beginning, a middle and an end. That book, and that I can tell you, was the narrative of the 6 months of the criminal investigation, when I was coordinating it. What could have happened since then, we don’t know. I left the investigation, the investigation continued, remained open for more six months and its result was a premature archival. If the investigation had continued, and there are many diligences to be made, hundreds to be carried out - the process was not concluded with all the diligences - it could have even happened that which was said at a medium term, at that time, would not be established or it could have been confirmed. Therefore a criminal investigation always has to reach its end, so no ambiguities remain, speculations don’t thrive like it is happening at this moment, and also in order to not give material to certain conspiracy theories to flourish. I believe that that is the biggest problem of the investigations that do not reach an ending.




   
 
 

The three figures seen entering the church with a sack in July.  The hypothesis is that it's possible that Maddie's body was put in the coffin of a lady.  Goncalo does not mean it DID happen, only that it is one of the many possibilites in the investigation.  Maybe there was another reason the three figures were going into the church with a sack...

REPLY: Yes, he does say elsewhere it is one of a number of possibilities. Every time I have seen mention of 'the widow in the coffin', I have looked in vain for these details:
A. Who is the source of this story?
B. What was the source doing out on the streets of Praia da Luz, at 3am/4am, in the morning, just before dawn?
C. When (on what precise date) did the source see these three shadowy figures, and
D. When did the source report his sighting - and to whom?

Can you - or anyone else - help with this please? 

This is the translated portion of the video:


Female narrator: There are also new hints never investigated that the former PJ coordinator makes public. This is the case of the church

Amaral: In mid-July, when here on PDL there were not many journalists, no longer this pressure, 

are sighted on a certain night, almost dawn, three figures with a sack,

 entering the church through one of these side doors. 

Inside the church was an urn with the corpse of a lady from the United Kingdom. 

This urn was later on the following day for the incineration in Ferreira do Alentejo. 

They do not describe the figures, they do not identify anyone, they only say that they are 3 figures who entered through the side door.

This information comes to me in a certain way but in an interview that I gave, 2 years later, 

the journalist who was interviewing me that was from RAI says that she had indicated in her notebook the date that this information had arrived to her and that in fact coincided with what we had come to know. 

What is true is that someone with the key of the chapel, acceded and would take a heavy bag.

 I have contacted some undertakers who say that it is possible that a body of that child has been placed under the corpse of the other lady, namely under the legs. It is possible

The identity of this person I do not know what it is but it is possible that with this report someone will contact the CMTV

I recall reading more to this in another interview translation.  I will try to find it.



   

I found lots of information in the video that is not widely known, or at least, not given the explanations or hypothesis from the files.

REPLY: I found a fair amount, but not 'lots'. I do disagree with respect that we only know '10%' of what the PJ know. I realize that some things have been held back, but I think no too many. We know an awful lot from those files!     

The content in the files are the official details covering a certain amount of time during the investigation.  It does not cover the reports by all the police that attended that night, and the following days, (eg) only their statement summaries.

The first witness statements appear to be summaries and would not include the content of their conversations for the duration.

Kate's arguido questioning was for 13 hrs.  What was said/discussed during that time that was not recorded in the statments.


Ricado Paiva was in their presence as a 'friend' but none of the information was recorded in the files.

The McCanns met up with the PJ but we have no knowledge of what was said during that time.

There were likely hundreds/thousands of hours spent discussing the investigation by Goncalo Amaral and other detectives.

Where are all the details from the 200 (approx) officers that spent days visiting and talking to the residents and visiting locations etcetc.


Leicester police have not allowed their information to be known

The T7 as well as the McCanns have only covered a small portion of their timeline for that week (whether true or not)

Lets not forget the many news reports that include quotes or very specific details that are very possibly credible. 

eg:  The six corpses is claimed to be a myth, not said by Kate, but by a family member.  However,  Correo da Manha reported immediately following the interviews, about this comment that was claimed to have been Kate's response.  The family appear to have confirmed it AFTER the report from that night, giving the news article credibility.

Claims of a 48 hr warrant in preparation for an arrest of one of the friends from Exeter, which appears credible and specific in the news articles.  Its not something I include in discussions as not included  in files but I certainly retain the information


Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are following a new line of inquiry which could see them carry out a series of searches in the next 48 hours.

The developments mark the first departure from investigations centred on Robert Murat, the only formal suspect in the case, who has been ruled out and will be cleared of his "arguido" status within weeks.

Every detective in the Algarve is on standby today. Search warrants have been signed and police are awaiting final orders to start an operation believed to be linked to a new potential suspect.

The Policia Judiciaria, the Portuguese equivalent of CID, has been on alert since Friday. The details of the lead are a closely guarded secret and detectives have been warned that they are being monitored for any leaks.

The warrants are only vaild until the end of tomorrow, but could be extended if police believe it is worth pursuing.

The Public Prosecutor's Office, which directs the police inquiry, signed a series of documents on Friday, ordering the PJ in Faro to put detectives on standby and authorising search warrants at locations that may be linked to the disappearance of Madeleine 109 days ago.









There is SO much we don't know and 10% is just my guess.  (Info added above is not in video but to explain why I feel we know very little)




David Payne was (apparently) seen on the McCanns' balcony by Mrs Fenn.  Its not something that is in the files but has been featured in other (non translated videos).  His suggestion that David Payne was there to help bathe the children was not something that had entered my head, and because I believe something happened earlier I tend to think it was more about the preparation of the 'abduction', but Goncalo offers it as a possibility.

REPLY: There is evidence, as per the Tavares de Almeida Interim Report of 10 Sep 2007, that the 'crime scene' in the children's room was deliberately staged. If Madeleine suffered a significant event back on Sunday/Monday as some here think, then whether David Payne  or Matthew Oldfield or Russell O'Brien was seen on the balcony before or around 10.00pm on 3 May, it doesn't really matter. It would all be in connection with the preparation of the abduction scene. Amaral, still believing strongly that Madeleine died after 6pm on the Thursday, has in the past insinuated that something bad happened to Madeleine while David Payne was bathing her. I am unable to agree. The evidence to me is clear: the David Payne-Kate McCann meeting was probably fabricated just to lend weight to the claim that Madeleine was still alive at 6.30pm/7pm that Thursday evening.    

It is possible, as claimed, that Mrs Fenn is said to have seen him on the balcony at 7pm  (froman interview translation)   

,
We have been told by Goncalo Amaral that they received a report from FSS that Madeleine's blood was in the rental car (which they based the arguido interviews on apparently) but it was then claimed to have been changed.  Goncalo says that this report should exist and one day be found.  This is not something that we are privy to in the files.

REPLY: I think Amaral may be 100% right about that. The PJ could well have removed that first document from the files after Amaral was booted off the case.

I don't think it was a document the PJ held.  It has not been released from the FSS, maybe following  a phone call?


I agree that any comments from Goncalo Amaral have been known from the beginning, but not all of them are included in the files or shared in discussions.

REPLY: From about 19 minutes to 24 minutes on the video, Amaral dwells on Smithman and still seems to think that it would ne useful to interview the Smiths again. As is well known on CMOMM, I cannot possibly agree with him on that. I think it likely that no-one, for whatever reason, has yet been able to show him all the mountain of evidence that Martin Smith's brief and very tentative claim that he and his family saw Gerry carrying Madeleine that night has zero credibility.

Amaral thinks it reasonable for Martin Smith to have 'recognised' Gerry McCann from 'the way he was holding Sean' - especially four months after he only glimpsed the man for a second or two in the dark, adding on 26 May 2007: "I would never be able to recognise him if I saw him again".

I would like Amaral to see a Portuguese translation of the OPs in SMITHMAN1 to SMITHMAN 10.


And Richard Hall's second film: 'The Phantoms' >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL0-ePd3FCU
      
And I would like him to be aware of how Nuno Lourenco lied to him about Wojchiech Krokowski.


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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Phoebe on 28.05.17 18:43

I agree with HiDeHo's claim about 10% of information. In explanation, I will outline a real event as much as possible. Person X approaches person Y to reveal her fear that she would soon be murdered. X tells Y of a catalogue of recent abuse, attempts on her life which she had disclosed to only one other, (I'll call them Z ) threats to murder her and plans by the perpetrator of how he will get away with it. X and another person are subsequently murdered. During the investigation Y and Z are interviewed at length. Their testimony is excluded and deemed inadmissible as it is hearsay evidence since X is no longer in a position to confirm it (having been killed). At trial, the defense puts forward the claim that the murderer had an unpremeditated, sudden loss of reason. That is what the jury and media hear. The real story is very different and not to be found recorded in any official file. Knowing this, I could well believe that much of what an investigation uncovers remains unrecorded and unknown.
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by HiDeHo on 28.05.17 19:07

Just one more example of information not entered into the files.

Paulo Rebelo's visit to the apartment in October.

NOTHING that I can find in the files and yet, although a news report, photos prove it happened.  If ANYONE can find something in the files I would appreciate.  

Sorry, a little off topic but included in response to comment about how much we really DO know from the information we have.


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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Verdi on 28.05.17 21:17

@HiDeHo wrote:
Goncalo often refers to details that are unknown to us.  His knowledge and comments may be included in the files or may be from his memory and 'intelligence' discussions.
Well, if Amaral has all this information as he claims (I am assuming here that past and present interpretation/translation is accurate), I hope all will be revealed sooner rather than later.  Not only to move the investigation forward but to halt unfounded speculation about secreted documentation and the finer detail of provocative innuendo.

I'd hate to see this end with another untold story.

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.05.17 21:27

@HiDeHo wrote:Just one more example of information not entered into the files.

Paulo Rebelo's visit to the apartment in October.

NOTHING that I can find in the files and yet, although a news report, photos prove it happened.  If ANYONE can find something in the files I would appreciate.  

Sorry, a little off topic but included in response to comment about how much we really DO know from the information we have.


Hmmm...a question...

Was this a genuine piece of investigative work with some forensic evidence coming out of it...?

...or, as I suspect was the case, was this merely an extended photo opportunity? - with Rebelo having briefed press and accompanying photographers to come along and have a look and take photos, just to make it seem like he was really doing something - when actually he wasn't.

In other words, was it just for show?

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Verdi on 28.05.17 22:26

In many respects Goncalo Amaral appears to be quite an enigma.  The most baffling for me is his apparent adherence to the PJ investigations hypothesis way back in the summer of 2007 - as regards the PJ investigation, that didn't seem to progress beyond Amaral's removal in October 2007 - from then, whilst the Portuguese relaxed into complaisance,  the wheels were in motion back in the UK by the McCann defence league.

I don't know Dr Amaral, I have never had contact with him but I get the impression from various sources that his plight for justice in the name of Madeleine McCann continues - aided and abetted by interested parties inside and outside of Portugal.  Why then does he remain stuck in the summer of 2007?  Is this just a facade with better things to come at some unspecified time in the future or is he so confident in the PJ's original hypothesis that any alternative is automatically dismissed despite compelling evidence to the contrary?

Tales of Smith and Fenn and mystery loiterers and locked/unlocked doors and purple smokers and balcony smokers - the list is endless.   Yet, despite having contact with fellow sceptics he hasn't moved forward?  Curious.

All will be revealed - or not as the case maybe.

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by JRP on 28.05.17 23:12

@HiDeHo wrote:Just one more example of information not entered into the files.

Paulo Rebelo's visit to the apartment in October.

NOTHING that I can find in the files and yet, although a news report, photos prove it happened.  If ANYONE can find something in the files I would appreciate.  

Sorry, a little off topic but included in response to comment about how much we really DO know from the information we have.



Is that the window to Maddies bedroom? Looks larger, like a patio door to me.

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Verdi on 28.05.17 23:56

@Phoebe wrote:
Didn't Gerry McCann make one of his first calls  on the night of the 3rd to a friend with diplomatic links? Would this not have been immediately passed on, complete with details? Jill Renwick also used her contacts to alert those close to Brown. Perhaps the British authorities believed in the "abduction" story and were eager to be seen to be pro-active.
That's not how the system works.  Ambassadors do not have authority to interfere with a host countries administration, they certainly have no authority to interfere with a criminal investigation.  A British citizen victim of crime in another country, is entitled to consular assistance with limited powers.  Normally, it is the local police in the host country who inform the regional consulate of the crime, the notion that the crime victim (I use the word victim with reticence) arranging for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK to be contacted direct is, I venture to suggest, unheard of.  Even if it happened, the caller would be told to contact the local police and/or consulate. 

Trust me - that's how it should work.  I speak from personal experience, an ambassador only makes an appearance if the country or an area therein is affected by a mass disaster, such as outbreak of war, immediate threat of widespread terrorism or a natural disaster claiming and/or threatening the lives of British citizens.   That or a half hour appearance at a jolly cocktail party to shake hands with British subjects who happen to be in the area s/he is visiting.

The UK government/authorities would not have benefited by some PR exercise through the disappearance of Madeleine McCann or supporting the grieving parents.  Why?  Because the public were not aware of the lurid detail until the release of the PJ files into the public domain and Kate McCann's autobiographical chiclit.  Besides, how does a private phone call by the Premier elect, Gordon Brown to Gerry McCann, benefit government image - or a personal call by the PM's wife, Cherie Blair, to Kate McCann whilst she was out jogging.  The first lady even said she would have a word with one Catherine 'my husband stole my kids' Meyer, ex-wife of former British ambassador to the US of A.  An influential figure in the world of child protection - like P.A.C.T  for example.  I can't see any of this underhand maneuvering assisting the UK governments popularity image.

Hardly a vote catcher - less so in days of austerity.

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Phoebe on 29.05.17 0:28

"Didn't Gerry McCann make one of his first calls  on the night of the 3rd to a friend with diplomatic links? Would this not have been immediately passed on, complete with details? Jill Renwick also used her contacts to alert those close to Brown. Perhaps the British authorities believed in the "abduction" story and were eager to be seen to be pro-active." 


The first part of the above was in response to a claim that the British authorities could not have known that the group involved were doctors employed by the N.H.S. Whenever there is a report of a tragic accident / incident abroad here it invariably concludes with the reassurance that  "those concerned and their families are being given all consular assistance"! Agreed, in this case the assistance was extraordinary, but then this was an extraordinary event. Regarding the vote garnering, I have an abiding memory of the night Leo Blair was born. Tony emerged from number 10 in jeans and casual top with artfully rumpled hair carrying a much needed mug of tea with a picture of the Blair family emblazoned on it to speak to the waiting media. Talk about image conscious! He might as well have held up a sign saying "I'm a regular family guy, I understand your lives". We fell about laughing. I'm sure most of the British electorate didn't give two hoots if Cherie had had quintuplets, but it didn't deter him. Tony never wasted an opportunity to promote the "right" image. It was almost as good as George W. dressed in the American Airforce  jacket after 9/11. There is nothing these guys won't use to boost their image and gain kudos. They'll kiss babies, dispatch ambassadors or order air-strikes with little thought for anything other than their political image. B.T.W. our gang over here are even worse!!
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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Verdi on 29.05.17 0:44

@Phoebe wrote: They'll kiss babies,
Maybe they should try kissing frogs - might have more effect big grin .

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Re: Finally! TRANSLATED VIDEO - CMTV Gonçalo Amaral - O Enigma - YOU WONT WANT TO MISS THIS! May 1st 2017

Post by Phoebe on 29.05.17 1:03

@Verdi wrote:
@Phoebe wrote: They'll kiss babies,
Maybe they should try kissing frogs - might have more effect big grin .
It would be hard to tell which was slimiest  big grin. On another note, something Dr Amaral said which didn't jar with the way I'd been thinking was about the Smith sighting. Now admittedly, he didn't say it directly, but I think the implication was obvious. He points out that the Smiths come forward with their sighting immediately after Murat has been made an arguido and were eager to stress that the man they claimed to see could not have been him. I've always believed they came forward to clear Murat who at that stage was in deep doodah.
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McCanns apt & hire car


Blood and cadaver alerts
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Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

Retired murder DCI Colin Sutton: "I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail."

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

Ex-DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the fake abduction to happen.

Despite "irrelevant behaviour" from blood and cadaver dogs in the McCann's apartment, on Kate McCann's clothes, and in the car they hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared, Ex-Chief Inspector, Ian Horrocks, said: "The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter is frankly preposterous."

Gerry McCann called for example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY News reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room. Brenda paid the price. She paid with her life.

Ex-Deputy Chief Constable, Jim Gamble QPM, congratulated SKY reporter, Martin Brunt, on twitter for doorstepping Brenda Leyland on behalf of Gerry McCann.

Prime Minister Theresa May introduces Prime Suspect Kate McCann to Royalty: The Duchess of Gloucester.

Good Cop Down: The reality of being a police whistleblower
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