Re: *NEW* - IS THERE A GOVERNMENT COVER-UP? And if so, why? - POLL ADDED (was: Why are they being protected?)

by Lord Sleuth 14.04.17 9:16

@ Kaz
Madeleine could have been taken elsewhere (villa 1/3 rd of a mile away for example) for abuse but died later indirectly from that abuse in the apartment.
The people who returned her alive (but barely) could also have provoked subconscious memories for the e-fits later, which although were supposed to be one person, were infact two and on the Sunday evening/ Monday morning instead of the Thursday.
Just a theory and entirely my view.

ETA

Or it could have been subconscious memories of one of the two collecting and later the other one returning and not necessarily both at the same time.
Confusing I know but there you go.
In addition it could explain why the e-fits were suppressed for so long and maybe were later released as a another reminder there are several sealed letters in several different places (incase of MI5 breakins etc) to be opened if anything happens to us.

by Verdi 14.04.17 12:41

Captain_Pugwash wrote:
The dogs were requested by the Portuguese police after Kate allegedly had a "dream" that Madeleine was dead. The government had nothing to do with this. The dogs were chosen because they have the best reputation in Europe if not the world.

Fundamentally incorrect!

The PJ, through the auspices of the case coordinator Goncalo Amaral, officially requested the assistance of experts in criminology and forensics from the UK as they felt they had reached an impasse. Mark Harrison MBE, was sent over to Praia da Luz in July 2007. This request was a result of the PJ's developing hypothesis of death and the parents possible involvement.

The deployment of the British specialist dogs Eddie and Keela, was recommended by Mark Harrison, following a week long intensive study of the case during his visit to Praia da Luz. This study is covered extensively in Mark Harrisons report..

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by Captain_Pugwash 14.04.17 14:09

Verdi wrote:
Captain_Pugwash wrote:
The dogs were requested by the Portuguese police after Kate allegedly had a "dream" that Madeleine was dead. The government had nothing to do with this. The dogs were chosen because they have the best reputation in Europe if not the world.
Fundamentally incorrect!

The PJ, through the auspices of the case coordinator Goncalo Amaral, officially requested the assistance of experts in criminology and forensics from the UK as they felt they had reached an impasse. Mark Harrison MBE, was sent over to Praia da Luz in July 2007. This request was a result of the PJ's developing hypothesis of death and the parents possible involvement.

The deployment of the British specialist dogs Eddie and Keela, was recommended by Mark Harrison, following a week long intensive study of the case during his visit to Praia da Luz. This study is covered extensively in Mark Harrisons report..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

See below. I do not have access to protect the Government at all costs files but I do believe this report. If the Liaison Officer was truly concocting this phone call then why wasn't Ricardo Paiva Carter Rucked? It was completely denied by Gerry (the dream) but does anybody really think that this named Officer just invented this on a whim?
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by kaz 14.04.17 17:59

Captain_Pugwash wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Captain_Pugwash wrote:
The dogs were requested by the Portuguese police after Kate allegedly had a "dream" that Madeleine was dead. The government had nothing to do with this. The dogs were chosen because they have the best reputation in Europe if not the world.
Fundamentally incorrect!

The PJ, through the auspices of the case coordinator Goncalo Amaral, officially requested the assistance of experts in criminology and forensics from the UK as they felt they had reached an impasse. Mark Harrison MBE, was sent over to Praia da Luz in July 2007. This request was a result of the PJ's developing hypothesis of death and the parents possible involvement.

The deployment of the British specialist dogs Eddie and Keela, was recommended by Mark Harrison, following a week long intensive study of the case during his visit to Praia da Luz. This study is covered extensively in Mark Harrisons report..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

See below. I do not have access to protect the Government at all costs files but I do believe this report. If the Liaison Officer was truly concocting this phone call then why wasn't Ricardo Paiva Carter Rucked? It was completely denied by Gerry (the dream) but does anybody really think that this named Officer just invented this on a whim?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yes.

by Verdi 14.04.17 21:15

Captain_Pugwash wrote:See below. I do not have access to protect the Government at all costs files but I do believe this report. If the Liaison Officer was truly concocting this phone call then why wasn't Ricardo Paiva Carter Rucked? It was completely denied by Gerry (the dream) but does anybody really think that this named Officer just invented this on a whim?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What are you talking about? Apologies if English is not your first language but frankly you're not making any sense.

Apropos of the video you use in your defence, would you do me the honour of providing a link to where Ricardo Paiva said about Kate McCann's dream during the McCann v. Amaral Lisbon court proceedings. I could be wrong but I believe the only court appearance made by Ricardo Paiva in connection with the case, was on 8th October 2013 - during questioning on this occasion there is no mention of Kate Mcann 'having a dream which was the turning point of the investigation'.

Looking at it logically, it would be pretty lame for a seasoned police officer to claim an investigation was directed by a dream!!!

The alleged telephone call between Kate McCann and Ricardo Paiva was said to have been made whilst Gerry McCann was in the US of A in July 2007. In her book 'madeleine', Kate McCann mentions a call to Paiva as follows..

WARNING SIRENS

If 18 July was the date I now identify as a turning point, the following Monday, 23 July, was the day when the warning sirens
should have started to sound.....

......That evening I phoned Ricardo Paiva to ask for his help with a couple of letters I needed to have translated. He sounded
strange, distant; certainly not his usual self. He mentioned the forthcoming ground search, adding that Encarnação wanted to talk to us before it began. I distinctly remember him saying, ‘Our investigation will be changing direction.’ Danie Krugel’s report had given them a bit of a jolt, he told me.

I was surprised. Surely the police couldn’t be placing too much faith in the findings of an unknown and untested magic
machine? I began to worry that perhaps they had some more solid lead that supported Danie’s theory. I hoped to God I was
wrong.......

I venture to suggest the claim about Kate McCann's dream was nothing but UK press misinformation. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

by Captain_Pugwash 15.04.17 0:34

This was reported in the press by whomever but racked up another notch in the perception change. Ricardo was not hounded by lawyers because the conversations were recorded. Standard police procedure international. This granted the impetous to pull in the undeniable detector dogs that indicated indeed there was evidence in the rented apartment and also in a hire vehicle used by the McCanns that there was cadaver presence. Watch the youtube , this was recorded in the press at some stage. If it was soooooo ooooouuuutttragioooos why did the mcCann team not launch an attack on the liaison office Ricardo Paiva.

by Verdi 15.04.17 1:02

Captain_Pugwash wrote:This was reported in the press by whomever but racked up another notch in the perception change. Ricardo was not hounded by lawyers because the conversations were recorded. Standard police procedure international. This granted the impetous to pull in the undeniable detector dogs that indicated indeed there was evidence in the rented apartment and also in a hire vehicle used by the McCanns that there was cadaver presence. Watch the youtube , this was recorded in the press at some stage. If it was soooooo ooooouuuutttragioooos why did the mcCann team not launch an attack on the liaison office Ricardo Paiva.

Again I'm compelled to ask - what are you talking about?

by sallypelt 15.04.17 9:35

Verdi wrote:
Captain_Pugwash wrote:See below. I do not have access to protect the Government at all costs files but I do believe this report. If the Liaison Officer was truly concocting this phone call then why wasn't Ricardo Paiva Carter Rucked? It was completely denied by Gerry (the dream) but does anybody really think that this named Officer just invented this on a whim?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
What are you talking about? Apologies if English is not your first language but frankly you're not making any sense.

Apropos of the video you use in your defence, would you do me the honour of providing a link to where Ricardo Paiva said about Kate McCann's dream during the McCann v. Amaral Lisbon court proceedings. I could be wrong but I believe the only court appearance made by Ricardo Paiva in connection with the case, was on 8th October 2013 - during questioning on this occasion there is no mention of Kate Mcann 'having a dream which was the turning point of the investigation'.

Looking at it logically, it would be pretty lame for a seasoned police officer to claim an investigation was directed by a dream!!!

The alleged telephone call between Kate McCann and Ricardo Paiva was said to have been made whilst Gerry McCann was in the US of A in July 2007. In her book 'madeleine', Kate McCann mentions a call to Paiva as follows..

WARNING SIRENS

If 18 July was the date I now identify as a turning point, the following Monday, 23 July, was the day when the warning sirens
should have started to sound.....

......That evening I phoned Ricardo Paiva to ask for his help with a couple of letters I needed to have translated. He sounded
strange, distant; certainly not his usual self. He mentioned the forthcoming ground search, adding that Encarnação wanted to talk to us before it began. I distinctly remember him saying, ‘Our investigation will be changing direction.’ Danie Krugel’s report had given them a bit of a jolt, he told me.

I was surprised. Surely the police couldn’t be placing too much faith in the findings of an unknown and untested magic
machine? I began to worry that perhaps they had some more solid lead that supported Danie’s theory. I hoped to God I was
wrong.......

I venture to suggest the claim about Kate McCann's dream was nothing but UK press misinformation. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

A quote from Kate McCann's book "madeleine":
"I was surprised. Surely the police couldn’t be placing too much faith in the findings of an unknown and untested magic
machine? I began to worry that perhaps they had some more solid lead that supported Danie’s theory. I hoped to God I was
wrong......."

Now read this extract, taken from the PJ files:

"A Mr Krugel, at the McCann's request, attended Praia Da Luz last week from South Africa alleging he could assist in locating Madeleine McCann. I have spoken with the Police officers that accompanied him and viewed the documentation Krugel has supplied to the PJ".

If proof is needed that the McCanns and Co. have been playing us like fiddles, look no further. They have employed some of the dodgiest "professionals" ever to be found in a single line up, and even the McCanns knew this.

by willowthewisp 15.04.17 15:14

Hi Verdi, I cannot be 100% certain of this,but a serving Portugal Police Officer(Ricardo Paiva)had their Phones "Hacked"and a"Busty Blonde Lady"was being used to try to Black Mail that officer during the investigation period?
Now what UK News Paper Proprietor do you know who has full knowledge of how to"Hack Phones",then had Two of his employees charged with having evidence to Hacking being carried out by their journalists?
Who then paid in access of reportedly£1 Million pounds to the Parents of Madeleine to serialise their Book on Madeleine's disappearance?
This now World business Leader,had secret liaisons on his Private yacht in regard to a Sky Corporation bid for BSkyB deal,Rupert Murdoch,David Cameron,Peter Mandelson and a Russian oligarch?
This World Business Leader has close associations to an unsolved Murder of Private Investigator Daniel Morgan and to Quote the fragrant Rebekah-Cameron,"We'er All In This Together"equals Cover Up of what though?

by Liz Eagles 15.04.17 15:21

sallypelt wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Captain_Pugwash wrote:See below. I do not have access to protect the Government at all costs files but I do believe this report. If the Liaison Officer was truly concocting this phone call then why wasn't Ricardo Paiva Carter Rucked? It was completely denied by Gerry (the dream) but does anybody really think that this named Officer just invented this on a whim?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
What are you talking about? Apologies if English is not your first language but frankly you're not making any sense.

Apropos of the video you use in your defence, would you do me the honour of providing a link to where Ricardo Paiva said about Kate McCann's dream during the McCann v. Amaral Lisbon court proceedings. I could be wrong but I believe the only court appearance made by Ricardo Paiva in connection with the case, was on 8th October 2013 - during questioning on this occasion there is no mention of Kate Mcann 'having a dream which was the turning point of the investigation'.

Looking at it logically, it would be pretty lame for a seasoned police officer to claim an investigation was directed by a dream!!!

The alleged telephone call between Kate McCann and Ricardo Paiva was said to have been made whilst Gerry McCann was in the US of A in July 2007. In her book 'madeleine', Kate McCann mentions a call to Paiva as follows..

WARNING SIRENS

If 18 July was the date I now identify as a turning point, the following Monday, 23 July, was the day when the warning sirens
should have started to sound.....

......That evening I phoned Ricardo Paiva to ask for his help with a couple of letters I needed to have translated. He sounded
strange, distant; certainly not his usual self. He mentioned the forthcoming ground search, adding that Encarnação wanted to talk to us before it began. I distinctly remember him saying, ‘Our investigation will be changing direction.’ Danie Krugel’s report had given them a bit of a jolt, he told me.

I was surprised. Surely the police couldn’t be placing too much faith in the findings of an unknown and untested magic
machine? I began to worry that perhaps they had some more solid lead that supported Danie’s theory. I hoped to God I was
wrong.......

I venture to suggest the claim about Kate McCann's dream was nothing but UK press misinformation. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

A quote from Kate McCann's book "madeleine":
"I was surprised. Surely the police couldn’t be placing too much faith in the findings of an unknown and untested magic
machine? I began to worry that perhaps they had some more solid lead that supported Danie’s theory. I hoped to God I was
wrong......."

Now read this extract, taken from the PJ files:

"A Mr Krugel, at the McCann's request, attended Praia Da Luz last week from South Africa alleging he could assist in locating Madeleine McCann. I have spoken with the Police officers that accompanied him and viewed the documentation Krugel has supplied to the PJ".

If proof is needed that the McCanns and Co. have been playing us like fiddles, look no further. They have employed some of the dodgiest "professionals" ever to be found in a single line up, and even the McCanns knew this.

To quote sallypelt

"If proof is needed that the McCanns and Co. have been playing us like fiddles, look no further. They have employed some of the dodgiest "professionals" ever to be found in a single line up, and even the McCanns knew this"

Post of the day.

by Liz Eagles 15.04.17 15:32

Just a fingertip on google came up with this,

Fingerprint of Fate

The following website will allow you to watch "Fingerprint of Fate", an one hour documentary on the search for missing children in South Africa and Danie Krugel's involvement. Watch it here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Madeleine McCann

Danie was in Portugal during July 2007. As from the second day of her disappearance they have made every attempt to assist in the search for her. Not to jeopardize the investigation in any way Danie requested the McCanns and the police not to reveal his involvement until the conclusion of the investigation. Danie provided a full report with detailed maps of her location for searching. It was subsequently provided to the McCanns and Police.

Map location of Madeleine: July 2007
After five months of fruitless efforts to find Madeleine, despite detailed information given by me to all relevant parties, I have now decided to publish this information so that any member of the public who is willing and able to assist in the search for Madeleine may have access to the very same information I have been providing to the parties involved since July 2007.
I know that even if she was moved after July 2007, there will still be evidence of her presence in this area.
I have done my very best, and believe my findings are correct.
My heart goes out to all who knew and love her.
Danie Krugel

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I do wish Jim Gamble would take off the background photo of Table Mountain from his twitter account, just as I wish he would give meaningful explanation of his South African colleagues in his associate based company INEQE. I'd like Jim Gamble to state openly and honestly whether he has ever had any dealings with Danie Krugel and if he has, how he has found DK's work helpful.

by haroldd2 26.04.17 1:22

That Mark Warner [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] needs to be explained. It suggests that for a long time something more was going on than simply the sale of holidays.

by haroldd2 26.04.17 1:29

Option 3 here could be rephrased, because there are far more connections to the nuclear business than just through Edward Smethurst. If multiple votes were allowed, I would vote for options 3, 6 and 10.

NEW - IS THERE A GOVERNMENT COVER-UP? And if so, why? - POLL ADDED (was: Why are they being protected?)

IS THERE A GOVERNMENT COVER-UP? And if so, why?