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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Mm11

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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine

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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty Re: Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine

Post by PeterMac on 14.09.14 9:41

@BlueBag wrote:Thanks for that Tony and Peter.
Very important points explained well for dummies like me.
I don't think you, or many other people, are a dummy.
This is highly specialised use of language. Both TB and I are legally qualified and used to dissecting this sort of legal language in this way.

Gerry McCann wil have his own highly specialised language for his professional life, probably unintelligible to most of us, except in the vaguest terms.
That is the nature of professions.  ("a conspiracy against the laity - as someone once said)
Do you know what Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or Restenosis or even Pericardial tamponade are ?
He does.  We largely don't.

But what is happening here is that the McCanns and their team are, in my view DELIBERATELY pretending that these specialised legal words mean something other than they in fact do.
I say deliberately, as I do not believe they are really so stupid as not to understand this point.  I may of course be wrong.
PC Grime was absolutely correct in what he said, but his statement has been taken, analysed, twisted, deliberately misinterpreted and is now being presented to the public as if it means the exact OPPOSITE of what it in fact does.

The dogs have indicated the presence of a corpse in several places.
There is a missing child
The parents have lied
The parents have behaved in ludicrous and inappropriate ways
Kates arms show signs of physical violence
Their friends have lied and refused to assist the investigation
Their official spokes-person has lied
They have sought to silence anyone who seeks to raise a particular point
and so on and on

At some point the Police and then the CPS have to consider whether all the evidence when added together can make a coherent case.
That is a very difficult decision, as you only get one "Go'.

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Post by Guest on 14.09.14 9:53

Peter as ever a response we can all understand,can I pick upon the last point,the crime was in Portugal how would the CPS be involved surely no arrest can be made in this country unless the PJ asked for it and a extradition surely.
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Post by nglfi on 14.09.14 10:29

Thank you Petermac for explaining the technical meaning of forensic, I did think it had to be 'samples' of sone kind to back up the alerts. Although with this in mind,  and as you say other evidence can be discrepancies in statements, the fact that a person has gone missing etc, then I cannot understand why the parents have not been charged? A child has gone missing,  with the only evidence for where she may have gone coming from a man who says he saw Gerry Mccann walking with her away from the apartment.  No other evidence exists as to where she might have gone. Wildly varying statements,  or to put it another way, lots of lies, many self incriminating utterances from the pair of them, am I missing something?  Why have they not been charged? Could it be that the PJ are actually reasonably confident they can find the cadaver and want to wait until they do?
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Post by PeterMac on 14.09.14 11:54

WMD wrote:Peter as ever a response we can all understand,can I pick upon the last point,the crime was in Portugal how would the CPS be involved surely no arrest can be made in this country unless the PJ asked for it and a extradition surely.
OK. The LPS. Sorry.
Unless homicide is suspected in which case the CPS.
(We do know that the CPS went out to Lusitania to talk to their counterparts )

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Post by Markus 2 on 14.09.14 12:14

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/the-truth-is-out-there-166901.html
Interesting piece on Swan and Summers 

“But that’s not how good journalism is done. We go down the road, we interview people, we read thousands of documents and spend a lot of time on the phone, but at the end of the day we have to think, we produce the goods.”
No interview with the Mcanns though.

“It’s no longer feasible to spend the amount of time that we would typically spend on a book anymore,” says Swan.
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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty PROUT

Post by PeterMac on 14.09.14 12:17

The Prout case is as good as any for this pupose.  It also involved PC Grime and eddie.
Cadaver dog sniffed death in Prout home
05 March 2011
This is Gloucestershire

EVIDENCE of a dead body inside murdered Kate Prout's home was discovered by a sniffer dog, it has emerged.
The "cadaver dog" homed in on an area in the living room of the Redmarley home she shared with her husband Adrian Prout, who was convicted of her killing last year.
An hour-long documentary on the murder case told how the dog, which was specially trained to seek out dead bodies and where deaths occurred, concentrated on a specific spot in the living room at Redhill Farm.

And for the first time another of Kate Prout's brothers, Ted Wakefield, spoke about the case.
Appearing on the Crime and Investigation network's The Perfect Murder?, he said he told his then-friend Prout that if he had done "something silly" he would "spend the rest of his life in jail, or always looking over his shoulder".

Prout was convicted in January 2010 of killing Kate amid an acrimonious divorce battle on Bonfire Night 2007. She wanted £800,000 from the sale of £1.2 million Redhill Farm but to keep it, Prout offered her £600,000. On November 5 she vanished, without taking clothes, money, valuables or her car. Prout reported her missing five days later, after another of her brothers, Richard Wakefield and her former partner David Edge persuaded him to contact police.

After a massive search of the farm and surrounding countryside Gloucestershire Constabulary found no evidence of Kate, 55, inside or outside the property.

There were no traces of blood, or signs of a struggle, but the cadaver dog indicated to police that a dead body had been in the living room.

Gloucestershire Constabulary drew together a mass of circumstantial evidence that pointed to Prout having strangled his wife with his bare hands and burying her body.
A jury of 11 men and women found him guilty by a majority of 10 to one and he was sentenced to life in prison. He must serve a minimum of 18 years.
His family continues to protest his innocence but her family has pleaded with Prout to reveal where his wife is so they can give her a decent burial.

The programme, part of the channel's Nightmare in Suburbia series, also featured Detective Chief Inspector Neil Kelly who led the investigation, Kate's brother Richard Wakefield and his wife Linda.
"I thought it was quite a good programme in how it put the case over," said Richard Wakefield, who lives in Far Oakridge, near Stroud.
"It was just the truth. At least everybody can see what really happened."

So they had no body, no blood, no remains, nothing. Only the alert of Eddie showed that there had been a corpse in that location.
But the "forensic" evidence = evidence to be used in COURT, was all the other stuff, reporting missing, arguments, money (follow the money !)

And he was convicted and got Life.
Two years later he confessed and showed Police where the body had been hidden. It was recovered and given a decent burial.

Interestingly some of the Murdered-Wife-HATE sites which insisted that he was innocent and for two years argued with threats and vile comments and petitions that this was a spectacular miscarriage of justice have never apologised, but despite the confession continue to deny that Eddie got it right !

What they say is that Eddie alerted behind the sofa.   Which he did.
They then say that Prout SAYS that he stormed out of the house after the row and went to a log cabin which they used as a shooting lodge. Kate followed him, the row continued and he strangled her in the shooting lodge. He later moved her body into his car and transported it to the burial site.
They then argue that this PROVES that Eddie got it wrong and is notoriously unreliable.
rather then thinking that this proves that Prout is still lying to try to hold on to some power.    
They have concrete and corroborated evidence that he is a murderer AND a liar, but still prefer his explanation to the logical one.

Some of these people are beyond help.  
Their lack of ability to think logically or to process information is truly frightening, when we consider that they have the vote, and are probably eligible for Jury Duty

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Post by Doug D on 14.09.14 12:25

Their latest defence on their FB page is based on this 'Portugal News' article dated 24th October 2013.

 
Portugal News 24th October 2013
 
‘Portuguese authorities have ordered the re-opening of the case into disappearance of Madeleine McCann. It has also emerged that police in Portugal have excluded the possibility of Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, of having had any involvement in their daughter's disappearance.
 
A statement sent to The Portugal News explained: “The Public Prosecutor’s Office has determined the re-opening of the inquiry relating to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann following a proposal by the Polícia Judiciária and due to the presentation of new elements which justify the continuation of the investigation.”
 
While a case review has been underway in Portugal since January 2012, led by leading missing persons detective Helena Monteiro and her team in Oporto, official lines of inquiry were closed in the summer of 2008 by the Attorney-General’s office. At the time, the office said that the case would only be re-opened “should new evidence emerge.”
 
Reports this week had indicated that the PJ Police, perhaps as a result of headway made following last week’s Crimewatch programme on the BBC, felt they now had enough new evidence to initiate an official line of inquiry that could include the questioning of persons of interest and possible suspects.’
 
http://theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-orders-re-opening-of-madeleine-case/29711

Investigative journalism at its peak!

No actual statements from PJ or OG. Everything based on 'a statement sent to', not attributed to anyone at all, but probably drafted out in 'pink'.

Appalling!
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Post by Guest on 14.09.14 13:25

@PeterMac wrote:
WMD wrote:Peter as ever a response we can all understand,can I pick upon the last point,the crime was in Portugal how would the CPS be involved surely no arrest can be made in this country unless the PJ asked for it and a extradition surely.
OK. The LPS.  Sorry.
Unless homicide is suspected in which case the CPS.
(We do know that the CPS went out to Lusitania to talk to their counterparts )
Thanks,I haven't got a clue just wondered thats all.
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Post by sallypelt on 14.09.14 14:02

I am reading on Twitter that Summers and Swan have not acknowledged their sources in the book? It this correct? I cannot imagine that someone who "nearly won a Pulitzer Prize" would write a credible book, without references.
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Post by TheTruthWillOut on 14.09.14 14:04

@PeterMac wrote:The Prout case is as good as any for this pupose.  It also involved PC Grime and eddie.
Cadaver dog sniffed death in Prout home
05 March 2011
This is Gloucestershire

EVIDENCE of a dead body inside murdered Kate Prout's home was discovered by a sniffer dog, it has emerged.
The "cadaver dog" homed in on an area in the living room of the Redmarley home she shared with her husband Adrian Prout, who was convicted of her killing last year.
An hour-long documentary on the murder case told how the dog, which was specially trained to seek out dead bodies and where deaths occurred, concentrated on a specific spot in the living room at Redhill Farm.

And for the first time another of Kate Prout's brothers, Ted Wakefield, spoke about the case.
Appearing on the Crime and Investigation network's The Perfect Murder?, he said he told his then-friend Prout that if he had done "something silly" he would "spend the rest of his life in jail, or always looking over his shoulder".

Prout was convicted in January 2010 of killing Kate amid an acrimonious divorce battle on Bonfire Night 2007. She wanted £800,000 from the sale of £1.2 million Redhill Farm but to keep it, Prout offered her £600,000. On November 5 she vanished, without taking clothes, money, valuables or her car. Prout reported her missing five days later, after another of her brothers, Richard Wakefield and her former partner David Edge persuaded him to contact police.

After a massive search of the farm and surrounding countryside Gloucestershire Constabulary found no evidence of Kate, 55, inside or outside the property.

There were no traces of blood, or signs of a struggle, but the cadaver dog indicated to police that a dead body had been in the living room.

Gloucestershire Constabulary drew together a mass of circumstantial evidence that pointed to Prout having strangled his wife with his bare hands and burying her body.
A jury of 11 men and women found him guilty by a majority of 10 to one and he was sentenced to life in prison. He must serve a minimum of 18 years.
His family continues to protest his innocence but her family has pleaded with Prout to reveal where his wife is so they can give her a decent burial.

The programme, part of the channel's Nightmare in Suburbia series, also featured Detective Chief Inspector Neil Kelly who led the investigation, Kate's brother Richard Wakefield and his wife Linda.
"I thought it was quite a good programme in how it put the case over," said Richard Wakefield, who lives in Far Oakridge, near Stroud.
"It was just the truth. At least everybody can see what really happened."

So they had no body, no blood, no remains, nothing. Only the alert of Eddie showed that there had been a corpse in that location.
But the "forensic" evidence = evidence to be used in COURT, was all the other stuff, reporting missing, arguments, money (follow the money !)

And he was convicted and got Life.
Two years later he confessed and showed Police where the body had been hidden. It was recovered and given a decent burial.

Interestingly some of the Murdered-Wife-HATE sites which insisted that he was innocent and for two years argued with threats and vile comments and petitions that this was a spectacular miscarriage of justice have never apologised, but despite the confession continue to deny that Eddie got it right !

What they say is that Eddie alerted behind the sofa.   Which he did.
They then say that Prout SAYS that he stormed out of the house after the row and went to a log cabin which they used as a shooting lodge. Kate followed him, the row continued and he strangled her in the shooting lodge. He later moved her body into his car and transported it to the burial site.
They then argue that this PROVES that Eddie got it wrong and is notoriously unreliable.
rather then thinking that this proves that Prout is still lying to try to hold on to some power.    
They have concrete and corroborated evidence that he is a murderer AND a liar, but still prefer his explanation to the logical one.

Some of these people are beyond help.  
Their lack of ability to think logically or to process information is truly frightening, when we consider that they have the vote, and are probably eligible for Jury Duty

It always amazes me just how many UK cases are like this Peter. 

I fear whether the dog indications will ever be able to be used in any future court case though. Almost immediately after Grime got nobbled at Faro airport he quit SYP and setup his own company then joined the FBI in 2010.

After 27 years total service......Something made him get out of dodge IMO, and doubt he wants any further involvement.
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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty Still off topic - but dogs and Prout

Post by PeterMac on 15.09.14 17:26

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-15794829
25 November 2011
Timeline: Kate Prout murder
2000
Adrian and Kate Prout meet and marry the same year.
2004
The couple buy Redhill Farm in Redmarley, Gloucestershire.
2006
Signs of problems in the relationship are recorded in Mrs Prout's diary.
Mrs Prout alleges her husband threw her against their car following an argument.
11 February 2007
Mrs Prout accuses her husband of threatening to kill her and holding her over their drained swimming pool.
She temporarily moves out of the farm.
Two months later the couple attempt a reconciliation and Mrs Prout returns to the farm.

September
Mrs Prout holidays in Salisbury in Wiltshire while house-sitter Diane Bellamy looks after Redhill Farm.

12 October
Mrs Prout goes on holiday to Italy with Linda Wakefield, her sister-in-law.
Ms Bellamy looks after Redhill Farm.
Mrs Prout becomes concerned that her husband is having an affair with Ms Bellamy.

2 November
Mrs Prout meets accountants in Cirencester, Gloucestershire to discuss her divorce settlement.

4 November
Mrs Prout demands an increased divorce settlement of £800,000. Prout previously offered her £600,000.

5 November
Mrs Prout is seen for the last time at her home in Redmarley.
She was last heard from at 15:29 GMT when she called her bank.

10 November
Prout reports his wife missing to the police. Searches begin at Redhill Farm.

27 November
Police arrest Prout on suspicion of murder.
Officers said they were searching 200 acres of land around her home.
At the time they said there was no direct evidence that she had come to harm and she still may be safe

28 November
Prout is released without charge.

19 December
The search of the farm at Redmarley and surrounding area concludes.

4 January 2008
Police say they believe Mrs Prout has been murdered.

19 February
Prout is arrested for a second time on suspicion of his wife's murder.

28 January 2009
Police confirm Prout is no longer suspected of murdering his wife.

10 March
Prout is arrested and charged with murder
and appears at Cheltenham Magistrates' Court.

7 January 2010
Debbie Garlick, Prout's new fiancée, announces on Facebook that she has given birth to their first child.

12 January
Prout, who denies murder, goes on trial at Bristol Crown Court.
The three-week trial heard about friction between the couple before divorce proceedings began.
It was also told that Mrs Prout's body might never be found.

5 February
Prout is found guilty of murdering his wife.
Acting Det Supt Neil Kelly, who led the case, says Mrs Prout's body might never be found unless her husband admits where she is.
Mrs Prout's brother, Richard Wakefield, said the family would like to find out where her body is so they can bury her.

8 February
Prout is jailed for life and ordered to serve a minimum of 18 years.

13 May
Police call off the search for the body of Mrs Prout.

17 November 2011
Officers who investigated Mrs Prout's murder say they have received "significant" new information.

18 November
Police reveal Prout has confessed to killing Mrs Prout and agreed to reveal where he buried her body.
He is seen at the farm handcuffed to an officer as the search begins.

24 November
Officers find human remains at Redhill Farm after almost four days of searching.

25 November
Human remains found at Redhill Farm in Redmarley are formally identified as belonging to Kate Prout.
Look at the bolded bits
MONEY
Family
arested / arguido twice.
Search of area finds nothing
Police say they have no direct evidence that she has been murdered.
TWICE Police say he is NOT SUSPECTED
Then arested finally, charged and convicted on the "alert of a dog"

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Post by BlueBag on 15.09.14 18:19

It has to be said.. Pamela Gurney is mental.

She thinks Dr Gasper is paranoid, has a grudge against David Payne and her statement is trivia.

She thinks because the SECOND time DP did the gesture and it wasn't made about Madeleine (it was Lily) it is makes it irrelevant.

She's not all there.
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Post by Brian Griffin on 15.09.14 19:23

I almost feel sorry for S&S. sarcastic

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Post by aiyoyo on 15.09.14 19:36

Why?  If they put themselves out there, they are asking for it.
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Post by Brian Griffin on 15.09.14 19:44

Look up the meaning of that emoticon. titter

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Post by aiyoyo on 15.09.14 20:11

duh...........I didn't look at emoticon, silly me.
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Post by Naz_Nomad on 15.09.14 20:11

@PeterMac wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:Thanks for that Tony and Peter.
Very important points explained well for dummies like me.
I don't think you, or many other people, are a dummy.
This is highly specialised use of language. Both TB and I are legally qualified and used to dissecting this sort of legal language in this way.

Gerry McCann wil have his own highly specialised language for his professional life, probably unintelligible to most of us, except in the vaguest terms.
That is the nature of professions.  ("a conspiracy against the laity - as someone once said)
Do you know what Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or Restenosis or even Pericardial tamponade are ?
He does.  We largely don't.

But what is happening here is that the McCanns and their team are, in my view DELIBERATELY pretending that these specialised legal words mean something other than they in fact do.
I say deliberately, as I do not believe they are really so stupid as not to understand this point.  I may of course be wrong.
PC Grime was absolutely correct in what he said, but his statement has been taken, analysed, twisted, deliberately misinterpreted and is now being presented to the public as if it means the exact OPPOSITE of what it in fact does.

The dogs have indicated the presence of a corpse in several places.
There is a missing child
The parents have lied
The parents have behaved in ludicrous and inappropriate ways
Kates arms show signs of physical violence
Their friends have lied and refused to assist the investigation
Their official spokes-person has lied
They have sought to silence anyone who seeks to raise a particular point
and so on and on

At some point the Police and then the CPS have to consider whether all the evidence when added together can make a coherent case.
That is a very difficult decision, as you only get one "Go'.
Would I be right in assuming that the only thing that stops this case from going to court is because of "technicalities" and any "evidence" can be thrown out as "circumstantial"?

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Post by Brian Griffin on 15.09.14 20:46

@aiyoyo wrote:duh...........I didn't look at emoticon, silly me.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't have recognised it either. I had to search for it, because I didn't want anyone to think I was being anything other than ironic.

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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty Torrent of hate’ for new Madeleine book

Post by sharonl on 22.09.14 7:20

Torrent of hate’ for new Madeleine book




Monday, September 22, 2014
Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 MadeleineMcCannaged3_large
By Christy Parker


The authors of a new book on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann say the publication is being targeted by a sustained campaign of abuse online.
They claim they have “received confirmation” that “vigilantes” within a Facebook group claiming some 30,000 members are intent on sabotaging the book because it concludes that the family had no role in the disappearance.
Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan, who live in west Waterford, said there has been “a torrent of hate mail” largely on Facebook and Twitter, from people who persecute Madeleine’s parents and “make vile allegations on the basis of no evidence at all”.
The book has also attracted some negative commentary on the Amazon site most of which, the writers contend, “make it clear the review writers had not first read the book”.
The site also carries many positive reviews, while the book has been described as “compelling” by the Daily Telegraph.
The Richard and Judy book club labels it “forensically detailed... incredibly chilling”, while The Sun considers it “explosive”.
Between them the authors have written or co-written eight acclaimed biographies, including works on Marilyn Monroe, Richard Nixon, J Edgar Hoover, and JFK.
Their 2011 collaboration, The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 & Osama bin Laden, was shortlisted for the Pulitzer Prize for History.
Looking for Madeleine, on which they worked for two years, claims to be “the first independent, in-depth, and definitive account” of the disappearance of the three- year-old from her family’s holiday apartment in the Algarve on May 3, 2007.
The book examines documentation and official statements pertinent to the investigation and analyses events as they unfolded before, during and since Madeleine’s disappearance, now widely presumed to have been an abduction.
The work contains “graphic detail on a series of sex assaults on little British girls prior to Madeleine’s disappearance” and names several paedophile suspects.
The book dismisses any suggestion that the McCanns were in any way responsible for the disappearance, and ask “why many people in the UK — and a majority in Portugal — speculate that the McCanns have something to hide”.
-Looking For Madeleine is published by Headline Press.

© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/torrent-of-hate-for-new-madeleine-book-288012.html#.VB-4f76q4R8.twitter

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Post by BlueBag on 22.09.14 7:29

What I find interesting is that the reasonable and civil questions were deleted from S&S Facebook page but those posts that enter into a slanging match with Pamela Guerney are allowed to stay.

"Campaign of abuse"... "hate"....

Some media manipulation expert is helping?

I wonder if they have a conscience?
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Post by Guest on 22.09.14 7:43

@sharonl wrote:Torrent of hate’ for new Madeleine book

Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Ptann10
Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Ptann210
Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Ptann310

These comments were posted about that article on facebook.
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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty Re: Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine

Post by BlueBag on 22.09.14 8:27

PeterMac had perfectly reasonable questions deleted.

No hate, no abuse, just questions.

Same for me.

We are both blocked now, I sure others are too.

Where is this "hate" campaign?

They hate questions... I know that.
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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty Re: Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine

Post by tiny on 22.09.14 9:12

No one with any brains would take this pair of muppets seriously,would they?.
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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty Re: Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine

Post by BlueBag on 22.09.14 9:27

@tiny wrote:No one with any brains would take this pair of muppets seriously,would they?.

That's not the point.

The point is that the MSM are presenting them to the uninformed general public as having written the "explosive" "definitive account".

It's all perception management... media management.
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Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine  - Page 2 Empty Re: Authors Summers and Swan reply to critics of their book about Madeleine

Post by Doug D on 22.09.14 9:44

Haven't checked this out, but I imagine it's correct:

@Killdara who
   1h

@summersandswan @irishexaminer - written by journalist (!) free-lancer, Christy Parker, out of Youghal, your home town. Well done! #mccann
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