Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Books on the Madeleine McCann case :: Anthony Summers & Robbyn Swan's book: 'Looking for Madeleine'
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Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Here we go.....again. (lovely typo in the headline)
Secret attacks before Maddie kidnap
Madeleine McCann vanished in 2007
Press Association
1
Exclusive
By BEN GRIFFITHS
Published: 4 hrs ago
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/5889204/Shock-new-evidence-of-attacks-on-children-before-Madeleine-McCann-kidknap.html
Secret attacks before Maddie kidnap
Shock new evidence of assualts on children
Madeleine McCann vanished in 2007
Press Association
1
Exclusive
By BEN GRIFFITHS
Published: 4 hrs ago
CHILLING new testimony has highlighted a spate of attacks on children in the weeks and months before Madeleine McCann was snatched.
Join Sun+ for free to read the shocking exclusive story of the evidence no one was told about...http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/5889204/Shock-new-evidence-of-attacks-on-children-before-Madeleine-McCann-kidknap.html
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Perhaps the public might notice they've read it all before.
Guest- Guest
Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Is this the same chilling Shock New evidence copied and pasted from the book
I was struck by how common it is for such crimes to be repeated over and over again by the same people. If Madeleine’s abductor was a sex offender or a child trafficker, for example, the chances are that he would have offended before. I cast my mind back to what the British consul had told me in the police station in Portimão that first day about the reports there had been of intruders getting into bed with children. I needed to know more about this.
I got in touch with the retired British consul for the Algarve. He told me that he used to have regular monthly meetings with British tour operators along the coast in Albufeira, at which crime was invariably one of the topics covered. At one of these meetings in August 2006 he had been informed by the tour operators of the spate of incidents I’d heard about the day after Madeleine was taken, in which an intruder had got into holiday apartments at night, climbed into children’s beds and subjected them to various forms and degrees of molestation. It seemed the attacker would often lock the door to the parents’ bedroom before assaulting the child. In one case, the paedophile had put on some of the father’s aftershave in an attempt to soothe or deceive the child.
It was believed that this offender (or offenders) watched for patterns and routines in a family’s behaviour, established ‘weaknesses’ in the security of their apartment and determined in advance where parents and children slept.
Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
I wonder when Mark Williams-Thomas (self appointed paedo finder general) will make a comment on Twitter. Nothing as yet which is quite unusual for Mark who always seems to like getting in on the action.
Who can forget the ITV spectacular he and Natasha Koplinsky did in October 2013 to show how inept the Portuguese are at acting upon international arrest warrants for British paedophiles in the Algarve? Once again the date is remarkable and once again it was compared to Madeleine's disappearance.
ITV tracks down sex offender On The Run in Portugal
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-10-29/on-the-run-fugitive-natasha-kaplinsky-and-mark-williams-thomas/
Who can forget the ITV spectacular he and Natasha Koplinsky did in October 2013 to show how inept the Portuguese are at acting upon international arrest warrants for British paedophiles in the Algarve? Once again the date is remarkable and once again it was compared to Madeleine's disappearance.
ITV tracks down sex offender On The Run in Portugal
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-10-29/on-the-run-fugitive-natasha-kaplinsky-and-mark-williams-thomas/
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Happy Anniversary
7th September is
The 7th anniversary of
The McCanns being made Arguidos
The 7th anniversary of
The McCanns being made Arguidos
Friday: Daily Express & Daily Star inside pages - 07-09-07
Pictures - Exposay website
Father and mother ‘squeezed’ by the Judiciaria - Jornal de Noticias 07-09-07
“KATE McCann Explains Death Scent Was Due To Her Profession” - Correio da Manhã 07-09-07
Kate fears being a suspect - Correio da Manhã 07-09-07
Kate and Gerry to be re-interviewed separately - Algarve Resident 07-09-07
British consul arrives at PJ headquarters - Algarve Resident 07-09-07
Kate McCann declared a formal suspect - Algarve Resident 07-09-07
Editorial: Kate’s agony - The Sun 07-09-07
Find Maddie - The Story So Far - The Sun 07-09-07
Dad's Police Plea - The Sun 07-09-07
The Many Maddie Theories - The Sun 07-09-07
Gerry quizzed at police station - The Sun 07-09-07
Exclusive: Cops tell Kate: You and Gerry are both suspects - The Sun 07-09-07
How The Drama Unfolded - The Sun 07-09-07
Spotlight moves off Murat - The Sun 07-09-07
Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Here's another one PeterMac,
Kate McCann 'fears Madeleine killing charge over blood traces in car'
Kate McCann 'fears Madeleine killing charge over blood traces in car'
- James Sturcke and James Orr
-
- theguardian.com, Friday 7 September 2007 19.31 BST
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NEW BOOK SHEDS LIGHT ON MYSTERY PREDATOR
AND THIS today on SKY NEWS
ETA - I see there is already another thread on this story]:
NEW BOOK SHEDS LIGHT ON MYSTERY PREDATOR
http://news.sky.com/story/1331466/madeleine-book-sheds-light-on-mystery-predator
Madeleine: Book Sheds Light On Mystery Predator
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
A bogus charity collector was suspected of planning to abduct a young British girl hours before Madeleine McCann vanished, a new book reveals.
The intruder fled when he was caught in a villa close to the apartment from where three-year-old Madeleine disappeared in Praia da Luz, Portugal in 2007.
Author Anthony Summers told Sky News that a British mother answered her door to a stranger asking for donations to an orphanage.
A mystery sexual predator is being investigated by Scotland Yard
"She soon realised he wasn't really looking at her, but was staring intently at her young daughter of three or four who was standing at her side, holding on to her skirt.
"She later saw that man watching her place during the afternoon. The next day she went upstairs to fetch something for a moment and as she started to come downstairs she saw what she thinks was the same man in the room where her child was and as soon as she started to come into the room he scarpered."
The woman was convinced the man intended to take her daughter and has been interviewed by Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine's disappearance, said Mr Summers.
The revelations has been made in the new book Looking For Madeleine
The incident in the Praia da Luz resort is recounted in Looking For Madeleine, published next week, by Mr Summers and his co-author Robbyn Swan.
The authors spent two years studying Portuguese police files and British documents for what they claim is the first objective book on the Madeleine case. They did not interview Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann.
The book also reveals how another intruder got into the bed of a young girl in the nearby resort of Carvoeiro three years earlier.
The man fled after the girl and her sister woke up and asked if he was their daddy or uncle, said Ms Swan.
Authors Robbyn Swan and Anthony Summers
She said: "What they noticed about this man was that he was wearing what seemed to be a surgical mask and he had wound laundry around his feet, seemingly to keep from making prints or leaving marks.
"He disappeared without interfering with the two girls."
A mystery sexual predator and three burglary suspects are the focus of the current Scotland Yard investigation.
The authors claim that the McCanns' holiday apartment, no 5a at the Ocean Club complex, was being watched in the days leading up to Madeleine's disappearance.
A man was seeing behaving oddly in a lane close to the McCanns' apartment
Ms Swan said: "Two separate witnesses apparently saw a man, whom both described as very ugly or with a spotty or pimply face, staring fixedly at apartment 5a. They both described him being in the same position in the street.
"That's combined with the fact that on the very day Madeleine disappeared, a lady visiting the apartment upstairs saw from her balcony a man behaving very oddly in the lane between the apartments and the pool.
"The man was going out of an adjacent gate, closing the gate repeatedly to see if it was creaky. He seemed to be looking around and generally acting very peculiarly before leaving."
Madeleine was nearly four when she vanished. She was sleeping in a room with her younger brother and sister in the apartment while her parents were dining with friends in the complex's poolside tapas bar nearby.
The McCanns said they had left the sliding patio door unlocked, while checking on the children every 30 minutes.
Kate and Gerry McCann were not interviewed for the book
The authors say that Mrs McCann has said she was told by the then British consul Bill Henderson that before Madeleine vanished he was aware of a spate of child sex assaults along the Algarve coast and had discussed it with holiday companies.
Mr Summers said: "Had there been a warning note in the apartment, do we think the McCanns would have left the patio door unlocked on the night they went to the other side of the pool to have dinner away from their children?
"One would be tempted to think they would make sure everything was firmly locked up."
The McCanns' tour operators Mark Warner Ltd said its policy was not to comment. The Foreign Office told the authors it had no information to give them.
ETA - I see there is already another thread on this story]:
NEW BOOK SHEDS LIGHT ON MYSTERY PREDATOR
http://news.sky.com/story/1331466/madeleine-book-sheds-light-on-mystery-predator
Madeleine: Book Sheds Light On Mystery Predator
Witnesses describe seeing a man staring at the McCann family's holiday apartment, as police search for a mystery predator.
7:17am UK, Sunday 07 September 2014By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
A bogus charity collector was suspected of planning to abduct a young British girl hours before Madeleine McCann vanished, a new book reveals.
The intruder fled when he was caught in a villa close to the apartment from where three-year-old Madeleine disappeared in Praia da Luz, Portugal in 2007.
Author Anthony Summers told Sky News that a British mother answered her door to a stranger asking for donations to an orphanage.
A mystery sexual predator is being investigated by Scotland Yard
"She soon realised he wasn't really looking at her, but was staring intently at her young daughter of three or four who was standing at her side, holding on to her skirt.
"She later saw that man watching her place during the afternoon. The next day she went upstairs to fetch something for a moment and as she started to come downstairs she saw what she thinks was the same man in the room where her child was and as soon as she started to come into the room he scarpered."
The woman was convinced the man intended to take her daughter and has been interviewed by Scotland Yard detectives investigating Madeleine's disappearance, said Mr Summers.
The revelations has been made in the new book Looking For Madeleine
The incident in the Praia da Luz resort is recounted in Looking For Madeleine, published next week, by Mr Summers and his co-author Robbyn Swan.
The authors spent two years studying Portuguese police files and British documents for what they claim is the first objective book on the Madeleine case. They did not interview Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann.
The book also reveals how another intruder got into the bed of a young girl in the nearby resort of Carvoeiro three years earlier.
The man fled after the girl and her sister woke up and asked if he was their daddy or uncle, said Ms Swan.
Authors Robbyn Swan and Anthony Summers
She said: "What they noticed about this man was that he was wearing what seemed to be a surgical mask and he had wound laundry around his feet, seemingly to keep from making prints or leaving marks.
"He disappeared without interfering with the two girls."
A mystery sexual predator and three burglary suspects are the focus of the current Scotland Yard investigation.
The authors claim that the McCanns' holiday apartment, no 5a at the Ocean Club complex, was being watched in the days leading up to Madeleine's disappearance.
A man was seeing behaving oddly in a lane close to the McCanns' apartment
Ms Swan said: "Two separate witnesses apparently saw a man, whom both described as very ugly or with a spotty or pimply face, staring fixedly at apartment 5a. They both described him being in the same position in the street.
"That's combined with the fact that on the very day Madeleine disappeared, a lady visiting the apartment upstairs saw from her balcony a man behaving very oddly in the lane between the apartments and the pool.
"The man was going out of an adjacent gate, closing the gate repeatedly to see if it was creaky. He seemed to be looking around and generally acting very peculiarly before leaving."
Madeleine was nearly four when she vanished. She was sleeping in a room with her younger brother and sister in the apartment while her parents were dining with friends in the complex's poolside tapas bar nearby.
The McCanns said they had left the sliding patio door unlocked, while checking on the children every 30 minutes.
Kate and Gerry McCann were not interviewed for the book
The authors say that Mrs McCann has said she was told by the then British consul Bill Henderson that before Madeleine vanished he was aware of a spate of child sex assaults along the Algarve coast and had discussed it with holiday companies.
Mr Summers said: "Had there been a warning note in the apartment, do we think the McCanns would have left the patio door unlocked on the night they went to the other side of the pool to have dinner away from their children?
"One would be tempted to think they would make sure everything was firmly locked up."
The McCanns' tour operators Mark Warner Ltd said its policy was not to comment. The Foreign Office told the authors it had no information to give them.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Investigator
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Redwood never published this one!
'The Invisible Man'. Maybe S & S have cracked it after all.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
So are we now to expect Mark Warner to be sued for not warning holiday makers with a note in apartments that there were peadophiles on the prowl.
Again not the MC's fault for leaving their children.
Sorry but I find it hard to believe that all of these witnesses have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork and went completely unreported at the time given the scale of publicity back in 07/08.
And a young child (young enough to clearly have to ask if it was her daddy or uncle) being able to mention
the intruder had laundry wrapped around his feet and wearing a surgical mask, obviously to leave no trace.
And not interviewing the Mc's but have clearly read the Bewk, very objective (and convenient).
I bet TM are grinning like Cheshire cats right now.
IMO
Again not the MC's fault for leaving their children.
Sorry but I find it hard to believe that all of these witnesses have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork and went completely unreported at the time given the scale of publicity back in 07/08.
And a young child (young enough to clearly have to ask if it was her daddy or uncle) being able to mention
the intruder had laundry wrapped around his feet and wearing a surgical mask, obviously to leave no trace.
And not interviewing the Mc's but have clearly read the Bewk, very objective (and convenient).
I bet TM are grinning like Cheshire cats right now.
IMO
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
I've just been and bought a copy of the Sun.
Here we go....
'Irish Summers and American Swan took up the case in 2012 after police released an age-progression image of Madeleine. Their young daughter asked 'is that Madeleine still missing. How long would you search for me?'
Swan told the Sun on Sunday 'I didn't have good answers'. Her husband added. 'What we do as authors is dig for the facts, dig the hell out of a case and see what we come up with'.
..........................
then there's a whole pile of blurb, ending with this....
Swan said: '
Given what the McCanns have been through, I think you have to ask yourself 'would I have had the courage and the stamina to carry on the way they have done?'
'People who vilifed them should set aside their prejudices and read the evidence before making up their minds'.
ETA: I missed out this bit (forgive me because I'm copy typing)
'The McCanns did not ask for this book to be written, nor have they co-operated with it or read it - however, they remain grateful to the Metropolitan Police for the work that Operation Grange continues to do in the search for Madeleine.'
Here we go....
'Irish Summers and American Swan took up the case in 2012 after police released an age-progression image of Madeleine. Their young daughter asked 'is that Madeleine still missing. How long would you search for me?'
Swan told the Sun on Sunday 'I didn't have good answers'. Her husband added. 'What we do as authors is dig for the facts, dig the hell out of a case and see what we come up with'.
..........................
then there's a whole pile of blurb, ending with this....
Swan said: '
Given what the McCanns have been through, I think you have to ask yourself 'would I have had the courage and the stamina to carry on the way they have done?'
'People who vilifed them should set aside their prejudices and read the evidence before making up their minds'.
ETA: I missed out this bit (forgive me because I'm copy typing)
'The McCanns did not ask for this book to be written, nor have they co-operated with it or read it - however, they remain grateful to the Metropolitan Police for the work that Operation Grange continues to do in the search for Madeleine.'
____________________
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
waiting for justice wrote:So are we now to expect Mark Warner to be sued for not warning holiday makers with a note in apartments that there were peadophiles on the prowl.
Again not the MC's fault for leaving their children.
Sorry but I find it hard to believe that all of these witnesses have suddenly crawled out of the woodwork and went completely unreported at the time given the scale of publicity back in 07/08.
And a young child (young enough to clearly have to ask if it was her daddy or uncle) being able to mention
the intruder had laundry wrapped around his feet and wearing a surgical mask, obviously to leave no trace.
And not interviewing the Mc's but have clearly read the Bewk, very objective (and convenient).
I bet TM are grinning like Cheshire cats right now.
IMO
And, children, this is the end of today's fairy tale, now for the news!
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Mr Summers said: "Had there been a warning note in the apartment, do we think the McCann's would have left the patio door unlocked on the night they went to the other side of the pool to have dinner away from their children?
Blaming it on the Holiday companies so why don't they sue them, they have a lot to answer for if true ,no big fuse made about this ,was there.. Why was the door not locked in the first place whether there had been known abductors or not, makes no difference.. What was their excuse as to why they did not secure those children in that apartment? Either Negligence parents or for their own benefit imo.Even Kates mother could not understand why they had been left apparently ?
It does just not seem logical as to why two supposedly educated Doctors could not see it was wrong to leave those children like that.
Blaming it on the Holiday companies so why don't they sue them, they have a lot to answer for if true ,no big fuse made about this ,was there.. Why was the door not locked in the first place whether there had been known abductors or not, makes no difference.. What was their excuse as to why they did not secure those children in that apartment? Either Negligence parents or for their own benefit imo.Even Kates mother could not understand why they had been left apparently ?
It does just not seem logical as to why two supposedly educated Doctors could not see it was wrong to leave those children like that.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
In hindsight I doubt they would sue MW because any decent judge, you'd think
would cast serious judgement over their actions that night.
As a parent I'm more worried about what I don't know than what I do know and
It's my job to keep them safe.
would cast serious judgement over their actions that night.
As a parent I'm more worried about what I don't know than what I do know and
It's my job to keep them safe.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
After years of review, millions of pounds spent, 200+ new leads, lots of trips to PDL, goodness knows how many suspects, digging exercises' in the Algarve etc. etc, this is shocking new evidence?
What have Operation Grange been doing with our hard earned taxes for the past three years? How on earth did they miss this?
Ah, but then again they haven't got round to the evidence of the dogs, the contradictions, the DNA, the bloodsplatters, etc. yet
What have Operation Grange been doing with our hard earned taxes for the past three years? How on earth did they miss this?
Ah, but then again they haven't got round to the evidence of the dogs, the contradictions, the DNA, the bloodsplatters, etc. yet
Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
http://www.lbc.co.uk/madeleine-book-sheds-light-on-mystery-predator-96643
"She soon realised he wasn't really looking at her, but was staring intently at her young daughter of three or four who was standing at her side, holding on to her skirt"
1 It's a foreigner looked at us funny story.
2. The mother didn't know exactly how old her daughter was.
"She soon realised he wasn't really looking at her, but was staring intently at her young daughter of three or four who was standing at her side, holding on to her skirt"
1 It's a foreigner looked at us funny story.
2. The mother didn't know exactly how old her daughter was.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Exactly, and we are supposed to trust doctors.waiting for justice wrote:In hindsight I doubt they would sue MW because any decent judge, you'd think
would cast serious judgement over their actions that night.
As a parent I'm more worried about what I don't know than what I do know and
It's my job to keep them safe.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Sorry but I find it absolutely infuriating that newspapers are allowed to print such provably false rubbish. Summers and Swan can tell a little story all they like but it is grossly irresponsible of newspapers to make inferences and sway public opinion based on such lies. I believe most of us on here have done our own research on the case, based on the official files and Amaral's book, and in doing this it is obvious just the level of tripe, nonsense and lies being printed in tabloids. Those that haven't researched will accept it. Why does no one step in to stop this? Let's say for argument's sake Madeleine is still alive somewhere. Can you imagine the irreparable damage such tabloids are doing to any prospect of her being found??? To be honest I am getting to the point where I no longer want to read any media because you can bet if they lie about the McCann case they will lie about all sorta of other things too. I will stop ranting now but it just makes me so mad that the police do nothing.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
So no-one else in all this time thought to report a man wearing a surgical mask and laundry on his feet?
But gosh! Oh My!Maybe such a man, Bandage Man, could enter and leave apartments without leaving any trace!
Do I get a prize? Have I solved it?
Oh and maybe he was wearing surgical gloves. Are they difficult to get hold of?
Oh boo. Can't think of a way past THE DOGS...
But gosh! Oh My!Maybe such a man, Bandage Man, could enter and leave apartments without leaving any trace!
Do I get a prize? Have I solved it?
Oh and maybe he was wearing surgical gloves. Are they difficult to get hold of?
Oh boo. Can't think of a way past THE DOGS...
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
This must be adversely affecting Portugal's tourist industry. I mean, who is going to take a family with your kids (or any kids) to a place full of dangerous criminals? I would imagine that even if, logically, there are not likely to be any more child-snatchers per capita on the Algarve than anywhere else, people would still think twice with all this in the papers and other media so often.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Peter Mac.:
7th September is
The 7th anniversary of............The McCanns being made Arguidos
-----------------------------------------------
9th September is
The 7th anniversary of............ the McCanns 'doing a runner' from PDL!
7th September is
The 7th anniversary of............The McCanns being made Arguidos
-----------------------------------------------
9th September is
The 7th anniversary of............ the McCanns 'doing a runner' from PDL!
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Re: Today's Sun - 7 September 2014
Snipped from my reply to a TB post on "Happy Birthday Tony" thread, copied as seems more relevant here:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/07/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Thanks for link to article which demonstrates the sheer chutzpa of Team McC at that time. PMcC and JMcG (described as a friend aong with CM!) happily disclosing details of a police interview which both were fully aware was under judicial secrecy. Surely strings were pulled to prevent the PJ from taking appropriate action against all concerned as these are serious breaches. If they had done, the media fightback may have taken an entirely different turn.
This gem from JMcG is something of a stand out:
"There is a fear that she may be arrested for a crime that we have no idea was actually committed by anybody and that certainly she did not commit"
So much for the insisted upon abduction, since logic dictates that, without doubt, is a crime commited by somebody. A crime by its very nature needs a perpetrator so if you have no idea that a crime was committed by ]anybody[, was a crime in fact committed? Sounds here like JMcG is hinting that no crime was committed and if that is the case the only explanation for the disappearance was some kind of accident. Further, the denial is limited to committing a crime, nothing else. JMcG and CM have always insisted they believe the McCs and that they are innocent of any involvment, but his statement may perhaps be read as suggesting JMcG knew otherwise. She certainly seemed to find it highly amusing that KMcC was texting her about her interview while in Portimao being questioned by the PJ, which did seem an odd reaction from the PR of a woman who was being accused of accidentally killing her child and disposing of her body. An opinion only.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/07/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Thanks for link to article which demonstrates the sheer chutzpa of Team McC at that time. PMcC and JMcG (described as a friend aong with CM!) happily disclosing details of a police interview which both were fully aware was under judicial secrecy. Surely strings were pulled to prevent the PJ from taking appropriate action against all concerned as these are serious breaches. If they had done, the media fightback may have taken an entirely different turn.
This gem from JMcG is something of a stand out:
"There is a fear that she may be arrested for a crime that we have no idea was actually committed by anybody and that certainly she did not commit"
So much for the insisted upon abduction, since logic dictates that, without doubt, is a crime commited by somebody. A crime by its very nature needs a perpetrator so if you have no idea that a crime was committed by ]anybody[, was a crime in fact committed? Sounds here like JMcG is hinting that no crime was committed and if that is the case the only explanation for the disappearance was some kind of accident. Further, the denial is limited to committing a crime, nothing else. JMcG and CM have always insisted they believe the McCs and that they are innocent of any involvment, but his statement may perhaps be read as suggesting JMcG knew otherwise. She certainly seemed to find it highly amusing that KMcC was texting her about her interview while in Portimao being questioned by the PJ, which did seem an odd reaction from the PR of a woman who was being accused of accidentally killing her child and disposing of her body. An opinion only.
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
worriedmum wrote:So no-one else in all this time thought to report a man wearing a surgical mask and laundry on his feet?
Oh come on why should anyone?... you see that all the time in Portugal.
Oh wait...
Surgeons wear surgical masks!
Guest- Guest
Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
One 'wonders' IF a LOCAL Portuguese 'ugly, pimpleman' who Maddie Cops 'covertly' photographed, in PDL, on their er, 'visits' earlier this year, will BE amongst the four new 'suspects' Grange wants er, 'interviewing'?
One far fetched conspiracy 'theory' too far?
Be handy for Andy, wouldn't it, seeing as 'UGLY PIMPLEMAN', seems to have risen to the top of the list of 'suspects' (this month, anyway) as asserted by S&S and ex-cop Hames?
And NOT 'Tannerman' still prominently 'displayed' on the McCanns FindMadeleine website.
I'll get me coat!
One far fetched conspiracy 'theory' too far?
Be handy for Andy, wouldn't it, seeing as 'UGLY PIMPLEMAN', seems to have risen to the top of the list of 'suspects' (this month, anyway) as asserted by S&S and ex-cop Hames?
And NOT 'Tannerman' still prominently 'displayed' on the McCanns FindMadeleine website.
I'll get me coat!
jeanmonroe- Posts : 5818
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
She has just been on Sky news.
Trying to discredit the dogs.
Well, what else can she do ?
So, for the benefit of Sky, and ignorant Americans, and everyone else, here is a reminder.
Trying to discredit the dogs.
Well, what else can she do ?
So, for the benefit of Sky, and ignorant Americans, and everyone else, here is a reminder.
On the Reliability of Cadaver dogs
Dogs trained to detect the smell of human cadaverine are now routinely used throughout the world. We examine some of the leading cases.
From the outset it is important to note that a dog cannot give “evidence“ in a criminal trial. In most jurisdictions evidence has to be subject to examination and cross examination by learned counsel, and this is clearly impossible. On many occasions the alert by the dog will result in the discovery of remains and it will be that which becomes the primary evidence. The fact that the dog indicated where to look becomes a side issue, of no particular legal importance.
Here we look at some occasions when the dog alerts, but no significant physical evidence can be found at the time. The best that can be achieved in these circumstances is that the handler of the animal gives evidence of the dog’s reactions, often with video confirmation, and can then be cross examined on his interpretation of the animal’s behaviour.
(I shall refer to the cases by the name of the deceased or missing person, rather than by the Trial reference, because of the ways in which these differ across jurisdictions)
1 The case with a legal significance may not yet have been fully appreciated, is that of Jeanette Zapata. in Dane Country, USA. In 1976 she served her husband Eugene Zapata with divorce papers. She went missing shortly afterwards. 29 years later dogs alerted in the basement of the family home, and in several other places where the family had lived over the intervening time. At trial his lawyer persuaded the judge that the dog’s finding could not be admitted, since the places in which they had alerted indicated that he had carried the body round to everywhere he had lived, and it was suggested that this was preposterous. The jury failed to reach a verdict. Before his retrial however, he confessed, and crucially confirmed that he had in fact transported the body round before disposing of it. The dogs had been absolutely accurate. No body has been found.
2 The recent case of Bianca Jones, a 2 year old girl murdered by her father D’Andre Lane in Detroit USA, with the added details of an alleged abduction, was an occasion when Mr Martin Grime, a British retired police officer, was working for the FBI. His evidence of the alerts by his dog was admitted to show that Bianca was dead whilst in the back of the car, and not taken by armed men as was being alleged. Lane was convicted, though no body has ever been found.
3 The trial of Adrian Prout, in 2010, for the murder of Kate Prout, his wife, in the UK, was notable again for a verdict of guilty, despite no body having been found. Dogs had indicted the presence of a body in the house, but nothing had been found. Some time after his conviction Prout confessed, and indicted the location of the body, confirming that the dogs had been absolutely accurate in their findings.
4 In the murder of Susan Pilley in Edinburgh, by her colleague David Gilroy, in 2010, the court heard that the dogs had alerted in the office basement garage and in two areas of the boot of Gilroy’s car, even though this had been cleaned recently with fluid or air freshener. The defence failed to convince the jury that the absence of physical evidence entitled his client to acquittal. No body has been found. He was convicted.
5 Cori Baker from Oklahoma was murdered by her sister’s boyfriend Marquis Bulloch, in 2007. He changed his story several times whilst being investigated, and the dogs, partly funded by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, were brought into search a large area after a skull had been found. They alerted in several places. No other physical evidence was discovered. He was convicted
6 The case of Guadeloupe Montano from Kane County, USA, is now complete. It is alleged that she was murdered by her husband Aurelio Montano in 1990. It may be the first time that the dog’s alerts have been used as evidence in that State. They indicate that the body lay in one position and was then moved to another. The trial took place in October 2013. No body has been found. He was convicted
7 The case of Amir Jennings, allegedly killed by her mother Zinah Jennings in 2011, involves a mother who reported her son missing. Dogs have searched the house and the car, and the trial for lying to the police about what happened is pending. No body has been found. Zinah Jennings was convicted on a charge of unlawful conduct toward a child,
8 The trial of Albert Fine, the partner of Catherine Hoholski, from Lorain USA, is also pending. In this case the body was found within 60 seconds of the dog being deployed, and it was then used to identify other locations relevant to the prosecution case. He faces the death penalty if convicted.
9 The alleged abduction of Isabel Mercedes Celis has been called into question by the findings of two dogs, one a cadaver dog, in the family home. The findings were said to be “significant”, the house is being treated as a crime scene and the matter is still under investigation. No body has been found.
10 The disappearance of 6 year old Etan Patz in New York 33 years ago, has already shown the almost unbelievable feats of which cadaver dogs are capable. In this case pads of absorbent material were left for a time on the concrete floor of the basement and then presented to the dogs for testing. As a result the concrete floor was then ripped up. The handler Englebert said. "We as human beings never lose our scent. If [a body] had been there for a while, that scent would still be there," she said, indicating that even if investigators do not find remains in the basement, it is possible human remains may have once been there before being moved.” The investigation has also used ground penetrating radar. The trial of Pedro Hernandez, who has admitted kidnapping and murder, is pending.
11 The parents of Lisa Irwin, from Kansas City, also allege that she must have been abducted in the middle of the night. The mother told Police she did not search, “because she was afraid of what she might find”. Disturbed earth was found behind the house, and the dog alerted in the parent’s bedroom. As a result a full search warrant was granted, and the police say they want to talk to the parents Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, one to one.
12 The cold case of 14 year old Melanie Melanson, from Massachusetts USA, who disappeared 20 years ago, has been given fresh impetus through the findings of a cadaver dog which alerted in an area targeted following a tip off to Police.
13 Another mother, Shakara Dickens, of Memphis USA, reported in 2010 that she had given up her daughter Lauryn Dickens for adoption, but the various stories turned out to be false. A dog identified cadaver odour in the house and in the boot of the car, and despite defence arguments, she was found guilty of Murder. No body has been found.
14 The infamous case of Caylee Anthony, whose mother Casey Anthony was accused of murdering her in Orlando USA, in 2011, was also notable in that the evidence of the cadaver dog handler was admitted, even though the body was found later at a different location. The dog alerted in the boot of the car, and it was alleged that the mother had then dumped the body. The evidence was highly detailed, with full description of the system of ‘final trained alert’ by the dog showing an exact position, distinguished from a more general interest. In the event Anthony was not found guilty of the murder, but was convicted of several lesser offences. There are moves to have the case reopened at Federal level.
15 In the UK, the case of Kirsi Gifford-Hull, in Winchester in 2005, is of interest since although the body was discovered by a man walking a dog, and the offender Mike Gifford-Hull had made a public appeal at a press conference for his wife to return, cadaver dogs had already alerted some weeks earlier in the house and in his car during the initial search for a “missing person”. After the trial he told officers that when he saw the dogs alerting in the car he had contemplated making a full admission. He was convicted. After the trial Judge Guy Boney QC ”. . .added that the police inquiry was so superior it could be matched with that of any other police force in the world.”
Many organisations exist to provide the services of cadaver dogs. Many are staffed by retired specialist Police officers. Their services are not cheap. It was widely reported, not entirely tongue in cheek, that Eddie, the cadaver dog operated by Mr Martin Grime, earned more than the Chief Constable. The Cadaver Dog Team of Global Rescue Services, and Dog Detectives operate in this sphere. Independent trainers include Search Dogs UK (www.searchdogsuk.co.uk ) All operate within the UK
Almost every state of the US has its own team operating in this way, and the FBI run training programmes specifically targeted at Cadaver and Blood detecting dogs.
The whole area of research is subject to rigourous academic study, as so much in the legal world hinges on the success or otherwise of the dogs, and the trust placed by courts on their reported findings.
Academic Papers
16 Cadaver dogs– a study on detection of contaminated carpet squares.
Abstract
Cadaver dogs are known as valuable forensic tools in crime scene investigations. Scientific research attempting to verify their value is largely lacking, specifically for scents associated with the early postmortem interval. The aim of our investigation was the comparative evaluation of the reliability, accuracy, and specificity of three cadaver dogs belonging to the Hamburg State Police in the detection of scents during the early postmortem interval.
MATERIAL AND METHODS:
Carpet squares were used as an odor transporting media after they had been contaminated with the scent of two recently deceased bodies (PMI<3h). The contamination occurred for 2 min as well as 10 min without any direct contact between the carpet and the corpse. Comparative searches by the dogs were performed over a time period of 65 days (10 min contamination) and 35 days (2 min contamination).
RESULTS:
The results of this study indicate that the well-trained cadaver dog is an outstanding tool for crime scene investigation displaying excellent sensitivity (75-100), specificity (91-100), and having a positive predictive value (90-100), negative predictive value (90-100) as well as accuracy (92-100).
17 Cadaver dog and handler team capabilities in the recovery of buried human remains in the southeastern United States
Abstract
The detection of human remains that have been deliberately buried to escape detection is a problem for law enforcement. Sometimes the cadaver dog and handler teams are successful, while other times law enforcement and cadaver dog teams are frustrated in their search. Five field trials tested the ability of four cadaver dog and handler teams to detect buried human remains. Human and animal remains were buried in various forested areas during the summer months near Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The remains ranged in decomposition from fresh to skeletonized. Cadaver dogs detected with varying success: buried human remains at different stages of decomposition, buried human remains at different depths, and buried decomposed human and animal remains. The results from these trials showed that some cadaver dogs were able to locate skeletonized remains buried at a significant depth. Fresh and skeletonized remains were found equally by the cadaver dogs along with some caveats. Dog handlers affected the reliability of the cadaver dog results. Observations and videotape of the cadaver dogs during field trials showed that they were reliable in finding buried human remains.
18 The use of cadaver dogs in locating scattered, scavenged human remains: preliminary field test results.
Abstract
Specially trained air scent detection canines (Canis familiaris) are commonly used by law enforcement to detect narcotics, explosives or contraband, and by fire investigators to detect the presence of accelerants. Dogs are also used by police, military, and civilian groups to locate lost or missing persons, as well as victims of natural or mass disasters. A further subspecialty is "cadaver" searching, or the use of canines to locate buried or concealed human remains. Recent forensic investigations in central Alberta demonstrated that the use of cadaver dogs could be expanded to include locating partial, scattered human remains dispersed by repeated animal scavenging. Eight dog-and-handler teams participated in a two-month training program using human and animal remains in various stages of decay as scent sources. Ten blind field tests were then conducted which simulated actual search conditions. Recovery rates ranged between 57% and 100%, indicating that properly trained cadaver dogs can make significant contributions in the location and recovery of scattered human remains.
19 The suggestion that Cadaver dogs are “incredibly unreliable” is thus refuted.
References and links
These are only some of the many available on the net. Searching on the name of the deceased will usually give many pages of similar articles.
1 http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com.es/2008/02/zapata-admits-killing-wife-gets-5-years.html
http://www.caninesearchsolutions.org/wisconsin_v._zapata.pdf
2 http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/detroit/jury-reaches-verdict-in-dandre-lane-murder-tria#ixzz29I3h1A3T
3 http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Cadaver-dog-sniffed-death-Prout-home/story-11860269-detail/story.html
4 http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/david-gilroy-guilty-of-suzanne-pilley-murder.1331810187
5 http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/October-2010/Cold-case/index.php?cparticle=4&siarticle=3
6 http://beaconnews.suntimes.com/news/15641401-418/cadaver-dog-evidence-allowed-in-body-less-murder-case.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/montano_maria.html
7 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082947/Cadaver-dogs-search-missing-toddler-police-execute-warrants-jailed-mothers-car-home.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/zinah-jennings-sentenced-10-years-disappearance-son-amir-jennings-photo-782017
8 http://www.examiner.com/article/isabel-celis-fbi-dog-alerts-missing-girls-home
9 http://childabuseconsulting.blogspot.com.es/2012/05/those-darn-cadaver-dogs.html
10 http://www.christianpost.com/news/etan-patz-case-cadaver-dogs-able-to-pick-up-scent-in-basement-73568/#vZyIRl6x8dEmovY7.99
11 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051903/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Cadaver-police-dog-smells-scent-dead-body-parents-bedroom.html
12 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181390/Breakthrough-cold-case-Cadaver-dogs-zero-place-hunt-girl-vanished-23-years-ago.html
13 http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/mar/23/memphis-mother-found-guilty-presumed-dea/
14 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2000636/Casey-Anthony-trial-continues-Cadaver-dog-handler-tells-court-overwhelmed-smell-death-trunk-Anthonys-car.html
15 http://www.standard.co.uk/news/wealthy-businessman-strangled-wife-after-she-uncovered-three-affairs-7086770.html
http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/1011044.print/
Academic links and general references
http://www.caninesearchsolutions.org/wisconsin_v._zapata.pdf
http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/cadaver-dogs
16 "Cadaver dogs– a study on detection of contaminated carpet squares." Oesterhelweg L, Kröber S, Rottmann K, Willhöft J, Braun C, Thies N, Püschel K, Silkenath J, Gehl A.
Institute of Legal Medicine, University Medical Center Hamburg, Germany.
Forensic Sci Int. 2008 Jan 15;174(1):35-9
17 Cadaver dog and handler team capabilities in the recovery of buried human remains in the southeastern United States.
Lasseter AE, Jacobi KP, Farley R, Hensel L.
Department of Anthropology, University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0210, USA.
J Forensic Sci. 2003 May;48(3):617-21.
18 The use of cadaver dogs in locating scattered, scavenged human remains: preliminary field test results.
Komar D.
Department of Anthropology, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada.
J Forensic Sci. 1999 Mar;44(2):405-8.
“Incredibly Unreliable”
19 a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LJo9fGXQMI
Interview with Sandra Felgueiras,
recorded 3 Nov. 2009, broadcast 5 Nov. 2009
5:39 Gerry McCann “I can tell you that we’ve also looked at evidence about cadaver dogs and they’re incredibly unreliable”.
SF “Unreliable ?
GM: “Cadaver dogs, Yes”
19.b http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/DAYS_851_to_1050.htm
Gerry’s blog Day 988 15/1/2010
“The use of dogs had proved to be problematic and unreliable in previous cases . . . To suggest or use the dogs’ reactions as evidence is simply wrong and abusive”
Kate McCann
19.c from “madeleine” by Kate McCann, May 2011, Bantam Press,
p. 218/9
When he arrived, Ricardo explained this ‘evidence’ a little further. His tone was sombre as he told us about the two springer spaniels that had been brought out to Portugal by the British police to assist in the search. Keela, who could alert her handler to the tiniest trace of blood, had done so in apartment 5A. Eddie, a victim-recovery or ‘cadaver’ dog, trained to detect human remains, had indicated that somebody had died there.
p.219
Did they really believe that a dog could smell the ‘odour of death’ three months later from a body that had been removed so swiftly? They were adding two and two and coming up with ten. [1]
p. 253
As we now know, the chemicals believed to create the ‘odour of death’, putrescence and cadaverine, last no longer than thirty days. There were no decaying body parts for the dog to find. It was simply wrong. [2]
p. 267
By this time Gerry was deep into his next task: researching the validity of responses produced by blood and cadaver dogs. Along the way he spoke to several experts, and in the coming weeks we would learn a lot about the subject. This is what one US lawyer had to say about the objectivity and success rate of this procedure:
The most critical question relating to the use of the dog alerts as evidence is how likely is the dog’s alert to be correct. In this regard, the only testing of these handler and dog teams recorded an abysmal performance. Here ‘the basis’ for the possible past presence of human remains is that there is a 20 or 40 per cent chance that a dog’s ‘alert’ was correct. In other words, with respect to residual odour, the dog-handler teams performed significantly worse than if the handlers had simply flipped a coin to speculate as to the presence of residual odour at each location.
State of Wisconsin v. Zapata, 2006 CF 1996 – defendant supplemental memorandum [3]
Author’s observations
1 A Cadaver dog can indeed smell the “odour of death” years, and even decades and centuries later. This statement is simply factually inaccurate, and misleading. (v.s)
2 The chemicals do last longer than thirty days. This statement is simply factually inaccurate, and misleading. (v.s.)
3 This was material submited by the defendant at First `Instance. It is not precedent, or case law. This case its notable for the change of plea before the second trial and the admission by the accused that the dog had been absolutely accurate in all its alerts, showing the various places the body had been stored over a period of three decades. ( Wisconsin v. Zapata, v.supra)
Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Gerry was very anxious to discredit the dogs in his statement at the trial recently too.
Why are people suddenly so jumpy and defensive about the dogs when they have such a rich variety of suspects to be pointing at?
Why are people suddenly so jumpy and defensive about the dogs when they have such a rich variety of suspects to be pointing at?
____________________
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Mr Universe to Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)
gbwales- Posts : 297
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
The dogs were brought in at the suggestion of a BRITISH police officergbwales wrote:Gerry was very anxious to discredit the dogs in his statement at the trial recently too.
Why are people suddenly so jumpy and defensive about the dogs when they have such a rich variety of suspects to be pointing at?
They were BRITISH dogs
Their handler and trainer is BRITISH
They have worked extensively in BRITAIN
Evidence of their actions has been accepted by courts of law in BRITAIN
The statement about what they did was written in ENGLISH
And to bang it in, yet again,
They alerted to places in apartment 5A, AND TO NO OTHER PLACES IN ANY OTHER APARTMENT
They alerted to clothing owned and worn by the McCanns, AND TO NO OTHER CLOTHING
They alerted to the key fob handled by Gerry, even though it was hidden from view in a sand box, AND TO NO OTHER KEY FOB
They alerted to the car hired and used by the MCCans, AND TO NO OTHER CAR IN THE GARAGE
What is there to worry about ?
Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Every story has a beginning a middle and an end. The skeleton of this particular story has been helpfully laid out in today's edition of the Sun.
Beginning
'Irish Summers and American Swan took up the case in 2012 after police released an age-progression image of Madeleine. Their young daughter asked 'is that Madeleine still missing. How long would you search for me?'
Middle
Swan told the Sun on Sunday 'I didn't have good answers'. Her husband added. 'What we do as authors is dig for the facts, dig the hell out of a case and see what we come up with'.
'The McCanns did not ask for this book to be written, nor have they co-operated with it or read it - however, they remain grateful to the Metropolitan Police for the work that Operation Grange continues to do in the search for Madeleine.'
End
Swan said: '
Given what the McCanns have been through, I think you have to ask yourself 'would I have had the courage and the stamina to carry on the way they have done?'
'People who vilifed them should set aside their prejudices and read the evidence before making up their minds'.
..................................................................
Everything else is padding. Tomorrow's edition is about the mistakes made in the hunt for Maddie.
Whitewash.
Beginning
'Irish Summers and American Swan took up the case in 2012 after police released an age-progression image of Madeleine. Their young daughter asked 'is that Madeleine still missing. How long would you search for me?'
Middle
Swan told the Sun on Sunday 'I didn't have good answers'. Her husband added. 'What we do as authors is dig for the facts, dig the hell out of a case and see what we come up with'.
'The McCanns did not ask for this book to be written, nor have they co-operated with it or read it - however, they remain grateful to the Metropolitan Police for the work that Operation Grange continues to do in the search for Madeleine.'
End
Swan said: '
Given what the McCanns have been through, I think you have to ask yourself 'would I have had the courage and the stamina to carry on the way they have done?'
'People who vilifed them should set aside their prejudices and read the evidence before making up their minds'.
..................................................................
Everything else is padding. Tomorrow's edition is about the mistakes made in the hunt for Maddie.
Whitewash.
Liz Eagles- Posts : 11164
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Isn't it just unbelievable the amount of evidence before OG eyes, yet they still ignore it? AR has acknowledged the dogs alerts in 5a with Madeleine may have not left the apartment alive, but why is he not acknowledging the clothes, the car, the key fob and cc? After all, those items were all marked by the very same dogs he's already pointed out. How else can a detective explain this? If he's suggesting madeleine was killed by a burglar, how does he think that scent got on to the other items if the mcs are not suspects?PeterMac wrote:The dogs were brought in at the suggestion of a BRITISH police officergbwales wrote:Gerry was very anxious to discredit the dogs in his statement at the trial recently too.
Why are people suddenly so jumpy and defensive about the dogs when they have such a rich variety of suspects to be pointing at?
They were BRITISH dogs
Their handler and trainer is BRITISH
They have worked extensively in BRITAIN
Evidence of their actions has been accepted by courts of law in BRITAIN
The statement about what they did was written in ENGLISH
And to bang it in, yet again,
They alerted to places in apartment 5A, AND TO NO OTHER PLACES IN ANY OTHER APARTMENT
They alerted to clothing owned and worn by the McCanns, AND TO NO OTHER CLOTHING
They alerted to the key fob handled by Gerry, even though it was hidden from view in a sand box, AND TO NO OTHER KEY FOB
They alerted to the car hired and used by the MCCans, AND TO NO OTHER CAR IN THE GARAGE
What is there to worry about ?
IMO
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
MRNOODLES wrote:http://www.lbc.co.uk/madeleine-book-sheds-light-on-mystery-predator-96643
"She soon realised he wasn't really looking at her, but was staring intently at her young daughter of three or four who was standing at her side, holding on to her skirt"
1 It's a foreigner looked at us funny story.
2. The mother didn't know exactly how old her daughter was.
"Mummy, am I three or four?"
"I don't know darling. That swarthy man has scared me so much, I've completely forgotten."
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Re: Today's Sun - 7th September 2014
Okeydokey wrote:MRNOODLES wrote:http://www.lbc.co.uk/madeleine-book-sheds-light-on-mystery-predator-96643
"She soon realised he wasn't really looking at her, but was staring intently at her young daughter of three or four who was standing at her side, holding on to her skirt"
1 It's a foreigner looked at us funny story.
2. The mother didn't know exactly how old her daughter was.
"Mummy, am I three or four?"
"I don't know darling. That swarthy man has scared me so much, I've completely forgotten."
I can't imagine the amount of money that is being paid to Summers and Swan for their "joke of a book" on what happened to Madeleine. Everyone who has made a penny out of the demise of Madeleine should be hanging their heads in shame, including her parents.
She has become a cash cow for all and sundry since 3rd May 2007 and there doesn't seem to be any end in sight unless the SY get their fingers out and put a stop to this whole charade.
Myself and many others on this forum could each publish a book on the past 7 years of Madeleine's disappearance, all we have to do is copy and paste numerous newspaper stories, together with items from the PJ files and add in a few fairy tales as with the new never seen or heard of before "Egyptian mummy" man, and we can make ourselves a fortune off the back of a poor child who didn't ask to be born, but we have more integrity than that and actually what to find out what REALLY HAPPENED TO MADELEINE.
Summers and Swan can add themselves to the long list of lowlives who only want to make a profit off the back of Madeleine but have no intention in actually finding out what happened to her.
They have all let Madeleine down in their quest for ££££££££.
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"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"
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