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Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

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Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.07.14 0:53

Below is the 'Madeleine may be in the well' story as it appeared in the Daily Mail. It's also been in the Express and the Mirror, not sure if anywhere else.

The main figure quoted in the article is ROY RAMM.

He appears within the Wikipedia entry on the Madeleine McCann case, which says:

QUOTE

Theories by experts

The disappearance provoked differing analyses by experts. Shortly after Madeleine went missing two former Scotland Yard commanders expressed the view that she had been abducted. Roy Ramm considered that it was a carefully planned kidnapping by someone who had been watching the child.[33] John O'Connor was of the view that Madeleine had wandered out of the apartment on her own and was subsequently abducted. O'Connor opined that she was likely to be nearby and recommended a thorough search of surrounding occupied premises.[34] This hypothesis was also supported by criminologist Mark Williams-Thomas who said, in May 2008, that he believed what happened was that Madeleine woke up, walked around the apartment, found the back patio door was insecure and wandered out. It was at this point that she was most likely abducted by an opportunistic predatory paedophile.[35]

UNQUOTE

Naturally, the expert, John Stalker, who once famously said: 'The McCanns are hiding a big secret', is not referred to.

To add to that, a source connected to the security services (I'm really sorry about that, I can't name him) has told me today that Ramm used to be the boss of Henri Exton, the man hired by Brian Kennedy and Kevin Halligen's Oakley International to look for Madel;eine in 2008, and whose e-fits are now the source of great interest,

Sorry, that's all there is...McCann - Brian Kennedy - Kevin Halligen - Henri Exton - Scotland Yard - all connected somehow

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

  Just 875 yards from where Madeleine McCann disappeared – an abandoned well that police failed to search 


  • Ex-Scotland Yard detective urges police to search scrubland used by gypsies

  • Hidden from the nearby road, the well drops 30ft down to 12ft-deep water

  • Mail on Sunday revealed a prime suspect may have worked at a water treatment plant just 220 yards from the well


Andrew Young In Praia Da Luz, Portugal
Published: 22:01, 5 July 2014 | Updated: 15:21, 6 July 2014


Madeleine McCann was three when she vanished from the Mark Warner Ocean Summer Club resort in Praia da Luz

A former Scotland Yard commander has urged British police to search an abandoned well just 875 yards from the apartment where Madeleine McCann vanished.

The Mail on Sunday has established that the uncovered shaft is on scrubland used as a campsite by Roma gipsies – and has been overlooked by Portuguese police.

Hidden from the nearby road, the well drops 30ft down to 12ft-deep water.

‘It is clearly known to locals and possibly to local criminals as a place to discard evidence from petty crime, such as handbags and other unwanted stolen items,’ said Roy Ramm, who served 27 years with the Metropolitan Police force and, as Commander of Specialist Operations, dealt with serious crime, from murder to rape and human trafficking.

He added: ‘Whoever abducted Madeleine knew the local streets, alleyways and scrubland and used that knowledge to avoid detection.’

Three years ago British police began a new investigation into the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine – the daughter of Kate and Gerry McCann – who vanished from their holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz in May 2007.

Met officers recently searched scrubland near the resort, but they have not examined the well.

Local authorities only allowed British police to check areas where ground anomalies picked up by aerial surveys might indicate a grave site.

Mr Ramm said: ‘If this had been a Yard-led inquiry from the outset, there is no doubt that the search would have been wider and more effective than that conducted by the Portuguese police.

'The well would have been searched thoroughly at the time, probably by using divers to get to the bottom of this very difficult and dangerous shaft.’

Mr Ramm added: ‘The Portuguese authorities have come a long way in letting the Yard conduct any inquiries, but they need now to take the final step and ensure the Yard team can conduct a really thorough search wherever they want. And in my experience that should include the well.’

Both Scotland Yard and the Portuguese police declined to discuss whether the well had featured in their investigations. Local residents said they could not recall ever seeing any police activity in its vicinity.

From where Madeleine was snatched, her abductor could reach the well by walking 400 yards through empty back streets, climbing a low metal gate and continuing the rest of the way over scrubland.

The Mail on Sunday revealed last month that a prime suspect may have worked at a water treatment plant just 220 yards from the well.

Heroin addict Euclides Monteiro, who died in 2009, was suspected of kidnapping Madeleine in a botched burglary after mobile phone records placed him near the McCanns’ apartment when she disappeared.

Last Tuesday, at the request of British officers, local police quizzed four Portuguese suspects – including Russian-born Sergey Malinka, 29, who was questioned as a witness in 2007. British police sat in on interviews, but sources suggest they led to no new developments.

The area is used as a campsite by gypsies and has been overlooked by Portuguese police.

The well is on land owned by two wealthy British property developers, who were unaware of its existence until The Mail on Sunday contacted them last week.




Location: An aerial photograph showing the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz, the abandoned well and the search area, which does not include the well.


The plot includes a derelict farmhouse surrounded by rubble and litter, including a pile of English paperback novels. An old mattress inside the tumbledown building suggests someone once slept there.

One of the owners, who asked not to be identified, said: ‘If they want to search on the land we have got no problem with it. We are not going to stand in anyone’s way, but no one has contacted us.’

The McCanns’ spokesman said yesterday: ‘Kate and Gerry continue to have full confidence in the work being carried out by the Met Police but will not comment on it.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html#ixzz36jaL7RsW

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by rainbow-fairy on 07.07.14 1:16

Gypsies back in the press again? Grrr. 
Euclides 'Tractorman' Monteiro?

Seems the press don't have even a single clue - like saying 'well today may be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or even Sunday. But its probably one of those'

Just crazy.

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Okeydokey on 07.07.14 2:11

@rainbow-fairy wrote:Gypsies back in the press again? Grrr. 
Euclides 'Tractorman' Monteiro?

Seems the press don't have even a single clue - like saying 'well today may be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or even Sunday. But its probably one of those'

Just crazy.

Gypsies, charity collectors, burglars, predators, childless couples...the list goes on and on and yet we can have full confidence that this Met Police "investigation" (doesn't deserve the name because they didn't begin with the people who would be the natural initial focus of any Police investigation) will produce nothing, zilch, zero, nada, a complete blank.


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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Woofer on 07.07.14 7:28

Half a mile away (or near as damnit) so why not say that - its easier to imagine than `875 yds`
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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by sharonl on 07.07.14 7:36

Back to the old barn?

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/12/mccanns-expess-news.html

If I remember correctly, the area was searched but there was an old mineshaft and a well which were considered to dangerous and difficult to search properly.

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 7:42

Well well yet another web of connections.
Even Daily Mail readers are not buying this cr@p. These are the top rated comments this morning:-


QUOTE BEGIN:-


Vengeful fruitcake, London, United Kingdom, 1 day ago
Isn't it a little odd that alone among so many cases of child disappearances this one goes on for ever?
Click to rate
Helen, Oswestry, 18 hours ago
I take it you would not want it to continue if it were your child.

Click to rate


Jane S, Nowra, 1 day ago
Why would someone abduct a child , then walk 875 yards to dump her in a well ?

Click to rate
karena, Sydney was York uk, Australia, 1 day ago
Depends what happened to her in those 875 yards.

lick to rate
mum of three, Northampton, United Kingdom, 1 day ago
Please stop drip feeding us snippets of information that lead nowhere, its exhausting.



Click to rate

MARKUS, LONDON UK, United Kingdom, 1 day ago
Here we go again, another hot tip that will turn into a damp squib. Why not do the research first and then present the public with the evidence ??? Is this not the normal way police investigations work ???

Click to rate
Jess, Hayle, 1 day ago
Poor little girl, let's not forget who all this is about

lick to rate
Hamilton2015McLaren, London England, United Kingdom, 1 day ago
I do not understand after years of this poor girl going missing and the international main news that this case has generated, any site in this area could have gone unsearched? All these areas should have been searched in the first month of her disappearence.

Click to rate
mazza, Lancs, United Kingdom, 20 hours ago
The areas were searched, please don't just rely on one countries press for your information. The police files are available to everyone.

lick to rate
benidormchica, alicante, Spain, 1 day ago
What a never ending nightmare....

lick to rate
Johnty, Farnham, 1 day ago
Keystone Cops. It would be funny if a young child hadn't gone missing.

lick to rate
angieclaire, Bedford, 17 hours ago
Please read the published police files before publishing ridiculous theories like this. I can't believe investigative journalism is something of the past in this country. Do you take your readership for fools who swallow whatever is fed them ?

ated
mary pauline, co clare ireland, 19 hours ago
What about all the other missing children.

click to rate
The views expressed in the contents above are those of our

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html#ixzz36lIYADh5
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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 07.07.14 7:44

@Okeydokey wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Gypsies back in the press again? Grrr. 
Euclides 'Tractorman' Monteiro?

Seems the press don't have even a single clue - like saying 'well today may be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or even Sunday. But its probably one of those'

Just crazy.

Gypsies, charity collectors, burglars, predators, childless couples...the list goes on and on and yet we can have full confidence that this Met Police "investigation" (doesn't deserve the name because they didn't begin with the people who would be the natural initial focus of any Police investigation) will produce nothing, zilch, zero, nada, a complete blank.

Yes SY have managed to narrow it down to a pot bellied, stinky gypsy type who although works as a binman has a part time hobby as a burglar and when things go wrong he abuses then murders and hides his victim (on one occasion only) Oh, him and his wife are childless and he does a bit of charity collecting also. That seems a pretty damn good bit of police work to me!
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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 7:47

@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Gypsies back in the press again? Grrr. 
Euclides 'Tractorman' Monteiro?

Seems the press don't have even a single clue - like saying 'well today may be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or even Sunday. But its probably one of those'

Just crazy.

Gypsies, charity collectors, burglars, predators, childless couples...the list goes on and on and yet we can have full confidence that this Met Police "investigation" (doesn't deserve the name because they didn't begin with the people who would be the natural initial focus of any Police investigation) will produce nothing, zilch, zero, nada, a complete blank.

Yes SY have managed to narrow it down to a pot bellied, stinky gypsy type who although works as a binman has a part time hobby as a burglar and when things go wrong he abuses then murders and hides his victim (on one occasion only) Oh, him and his wife are childless and he does a bit of charity collecting also. That seems a pretty damn good bit of police work to me!
 you forgot the pile of english paperback novels and a mattress HkP- where do they come in please?  big grin
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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by ChippyM on 07.07.14 9:07

Hurrah! I got a comment posted on the DM. A rare occasion indeed!  big grin

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by worriedmum on 07.07.14 9:21

snip ..''He added: ‘Whoever abducted Madeleine knew the local streets, alleyways and scrubland and used that knowledge to avoid detection.’


Has Roy Ramm read the police files or watched Crimewatch?


Mr Redwood wants to talk urgently with a man who, when seen carrying a child openly in the street 'avoiding detection 'at the pertinent time, hid his face, did not respond and hurried on. If this was not an innocent encounter, one has to wonder why such an arch criminal, well versed in the local byways, managed to get it so very wrong. And if it was an innocent encounter WHERE IS HE AND WHY HASN'T HE YET COME FORWARD? Any theories,Mr Ramm?
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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Woofer on 07.07.14 9:27

Gosh - is that really his name - Roy Ramm, not Rod Ramm ?
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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by haroldd2 on 07.07.14 11:09

@Tony Bennett wrote:Below is the 'Madeleine may be in the well' story as it appeared in the Daily Mail. (...)
The main figure quoted in the article is ROY RAMM.

Mr Ramm said: ‘If this had been a Yard-led inquiry from the outset, there is no doubt that the search would have been wider and more effective than that conducted by the Portuguese police.
How well is that article going to go down in the British embassy in Lisbon?

It sounds like a deliberate provocation, probably ordered at a very high level. Ramm is known for being 'forceful', but he is not stupid and doesn't just gob off.

Ramm was head of Operation Carnaby, set up to hunt down the poll tax rioters. Then he was assigned to dealing with Jamaican organised crime, the Yardies. Then he became the "compliance and security" director of London Clubs International and director of Aladdin - two gambling companies. He's also on the Council of the British Casino Association (source) and chairman of a casino resort in South Africa. (Source). Like Michael Caplan, he operates in the space where SIS (MI6) meets the police and presumably also in his case customs.

Demonstrating his commitment to the public good in the war against drugs and international organised crime, he is also a lobbyist for the department of Cancer Incorporated known as the international tobacco sector. (Source). (In particular, its propaganda outfit called the Common Sense Alliance.) The working of his moral compass is nicely indicated by how he opposes legislating for plain packaging for cigarettes, because that will help "terrorism". Yeah sure, and doubtless it will encourage paedophiles too. Funnily enough his position is the same as the one held by Philip Morris. (Source).

Has Ramm ever done any work for the nuclear boys?

Thanks for the Stalker "big secret" quote, of which I was unaware. (Source).

Clarence Mitchell has today said (in an article in the Mirror) that the McCs are going to Lisbon on the orders of the judge, which is what I suspected. It's a standard spin technique when you are forced to do something to say that it's actually you that's doing the insisting and forcing and that you've just won a victory. (I know the McCs lied last month, saying they'd been forced to go to Lisbon and - what an ordeal! - organise childcare during their absence from Blighty, but prior to then a lot of reports had described how GM had fought like a lion to get the right to be heard in the Lisbon courtroom. Sounded to me all along as though the judge was requiring them to appear.)

Which of course doesn't explain why CM is saying something which may well be the truth - an experience which must give him a very peculiar feeling inside.

Don't ever forget that Mark Warner made "no real profits" for 16 years (Management Today article).

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by canada12 on 07.07.14 11:24

@haroldd2 wrote:

Clarence Mitchell has today said (in an article in the Mirror) that the McCs are going to Lisbon on the orders of the judge, which is what I suspected. It's a standard spin technique when you are forced to do something to say that it's actually you that's doing the insisting and forcing and that you've just won a victory. (I know the McCs lied last month, saying they'd been forced to go to Lisbon and - what an ordeal! - organise childcare during their absence from Blighty, but prior to then a lot of reports had described how GM had fought like a lion to get the right to be heard in the Lisbon courtroom. Sounded to me all along as though the judge was requiring them to appear.)

Which of course doesn't explain why CM is saying something which may well be the truth - an experience which must give him a very peculiar feeling inside.
.

It is a rather interesting article, for this:

Kate, 46, and Gerry, 45, are suing him for £1million and hope to make a personal statement at his libel trial on Tuesday.

The couple, from Rothley, Leics, have been left angry and frustrated at previous delays in the court process.

Last month they flew to Lisbon only to find he had sacked his lawyer.

He has now hired another solicitor but a source said: “Kate and Gerry have been told that Mr Amaral has appointed a new lawyer at the judge’s request but he doesn’t use email or phone. How he can operate like this in the modern era is beyond belief.

“Kate and Gerry wouldn’t be surprised if Mr Amaral pulls another stunt to try and stall the case yet again.”

Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “Kate and Gerry are planning to attend court on Tuesday as required by the judge. They believe they have a very strong case against Mr Amaral and they expect to win their claim.”

The former cop insists everything written in the book was already contained in public police and court case files.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/maddie-mccann-former-brit-cop-3820335#ixzz36mCYGYMG

Fascinating if true about GA's new lawyer :-)
I'm sitting here waiting to see if Kate and Gerry have planned any stunts to try and delay the case this time. IIRC, their request to have it delayed until September was already turned down. Perhaps they'll fire their lawyer.

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by jeanmonroe on 07.07.14 12:20

canada12 wrote:

Fascinating if true about GA's new lawyer :-)
I'm sitting here waiting to see if Kate and Gerry have planned any stunts to try and delay the case this time. IIRC, their request to have it delayed until September was already turned down. Perhaps they'll fire their lawyer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Perhaps they'll fire their lawyer................."

Now why would they do that?  winkwink 

Perhaps it's finally dawned on them that their lawyer, ID, only ever refers to, in a court room, their claim that 'Madeleine was abducted" as only "the McCann couple's thesis"


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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by Justformaddie on 12.07.14 18:07

So does this mean the British elite cops have botched these searches, by missing this well? big grin 
I know they were only allowed to search certain areas but, surely when doing the aerial sweeps close to the well they'd have spotted it? Any word on the premise search yet?
IMO

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.07.14 20:30

I posted this on libel thread, should have been here, probably.

just on the 'non search' of the 'wells' by the 'bumbling, bungling PJ' as espoused by the brilliant EX Met detective, Roy Ramm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t9967p310-breaking-news-on-sky-news-sy-back-in-pdl-suspects-to-be-interviewed#266499

PJ POLICE FILES LEGAL SUMMARY:

At 08.00 the GNR Search and Rescue sniffer dog team came into action, searches were begun from the resort in the direction of the beach, covering a 2 km area; in Praia da Luz 300m radius searches were made as well as searches of abandoned houses, WELLS and waste land, the radius subsequently being expanded to 600m including the verges of the EN 125 motorway.

...and searches on the terrain, in an area that started out covering 15 Km2, and progressively grew to 30Km2 (where special ATTENTION WAS PAID TO locations LIKE WELLS, passages, tunnels, reservoirs and lakes).

SEEMS like yet another brilliant EX Met super detective has NOT 'read' the PJ 'files'!

I would like these, or ANY, brilliant EX detectives to explain to dumbass me, as to how it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE that the McCanns were NOT somehow 'involved' in their daughter's 'disappearance' instead of denigrating a fellow professional police officer, or officers, at every, any given, opportunity.

The EX cops are always remarkably 'silent' when the McCanns 'reliability testimony' is brought into question, aren't they?

all imo.

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Re: Madeleine 'Search the Well' stories, Roy Ramm, and the Halligen/Exton connection

Post by jeanmonroe on 16.07.14 14:37

Portugal Newswatch

Reflections on current affairs in Portugal by journalist and author Len Port.

Wednesday, July 16, 2014

The McCann case: Well, well, well.....

With two futile weeks of ground searching and the questioning of four unlikely suspects still fresh in the memory, a former Scotland Yard commander had a new idea. In a report in the Mail on Sunday he urged detectives to examine an abandoned well “just 875 yards from the apartment where Madeleine McCann vanished.”

The newspaper carried an aerial view of the location and also a close-up photo of the supposed well.

“The Mail on Sunday has established that the uncovered shaft is on scrubland used as a campsite by Roma Gypsies – and has been overlooked by Portuguese police,” according to the paper.

The aerial view indicated that the well was located on land behind the property of a well-known resident of Praia da Luz. He told us that in his 28 years of living there he had never seen Roma Gypsies camping in the area.

But the Mail on Sunday’s claim could not be lightly dismissed because the former commander had served 27 years with the Metropolitan Police and as Commander of Specialist Operations had dealt with serious crime, from murder to rape and human trafficking.

“It [the well] is clearly known to locals and possibly to local criminals as a place to discard evidence from petty crime, such as handbags and other unwanted stolen items,” said the ex-commander.

The local homeowner was bemused by this. “Before they tossed the handbags into the well, I hope the Roma Gypsies checked to see if they were Gucci,” he said.

Of course the ex-commander was not just talking about petty crime. He quickly came to his main point: “Whoever abducted Madeleine knew the local streets, alleyways and scrubland and used that knowledge to avoid detection.”

Not one to shirk a challenge even on a formidably hot summer’s day, our source in Luz went to check out the ex-commander’s hunch.

The first problem was a two-metre high fence. With difficulty he managed to find a hole in the wire only to be confronted by a six-metre wide boundary of thick vegetation. Eventually he emerged prickled, sweating and swearing into a recently mowed hay field.

“I felt relieved that if I were now to be attacked by irate Roma bandits, at least I could see them coming and hopefully make a hasty retreat,” said our intrepid explorer.

“I walked all over the hay field but was not able to discover a well. I was relieved to be able to return to the gap in the fence and depart with no loss of either wallet or handbag.”

Asked about a circular object that can be seen in the middle of the area on Google Earth, our source in Luz  said, “it could be an alien landing pad, but more likely a  flat round area for threshing corn. It’s certainly not the well shown in the paper.”

He concluded with dismay that tourism-dependent Luz had once again been portrayed as a lawless place – and certainly not the sort of place to go on holiday.

If Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood and his team decide to take the ex-commander’s advice and go searching wells, they had better come prepared for a long stay. There are many hundreds of wells dotted all over the Algarve. Fortunately, most of the others are fairly easy to find.

Meanwhile, the “Stop McCann Circus” street signs are still in place in Luz.
--------------------------------------------------

Brilliant!

Glad to see the 'alien 'abductors' from outer space' getting another mention!  laughat

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"What do i do if i see a space man?"

Err, "PARK in it, man!"

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