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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

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Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed - Page 13 Mm11

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Post by SchrodingersBody 05.07.14 23:22

HelenMeg wrote:The parents cried abduction saying their girl had been taken.
There is no evidence of abduction.
The parents stories of abduction scenario are conflicting.Too many inconsistencies.
So the parents (and friends )need to face further in depth questioning .

When will this happen or has it already happened.
As Petermac says, only ask questions you know the answers to, not that you can guess the answers to, but that you know the answers.
What therefore is the point of bringing them in. Maybe this SY stuff is about finding some answers or at least giving the impression they already know the answers when they eventually do bring them in.

Otherwise all they need to do is follow Kates lead and answer no comment to anything and everything.... and nothing changes.
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Post by lj 05.07.14 23:41

noddy100 wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html.  And more
Oh good, the gypsies are back.

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Post by jeanmonroe 06.07.14 1:23

Strange thing, i find, is that if all these 'brilliant, elite, ex MET, detectives erm 'commentators' (and there is an awful lot of them) all got together down the pub, they'd have this case 'solved' within say, 6 seconds!

I think the clue is in, EX Met 'detectives'  winkwink 

Obviously the DCI Redwood's 'elite' Met 'team' who 'searched' in Portugal, with dogs, in June, and who have been studiously slaving away on this investigation for over 3 years also 'missed' the 'well'!

The fact, they had to walk pass and indeed walked passed it (the well) to get to their 'second' search 'locations', in June, seems to have been 'missed' by the EX Met super detective, who wrote the article..

It is only those 'damn foreign police' that don't know where to look, not their buddies at the MET!

I don't know why all these super brained EX elite MET officers aren't put in charge of OG, TODAY!

'Redwood is Deadwood' could be their 'motto'
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Post by End 06.07.14 1:59

missbeetle wrote:
View-from-Ireland wrote:
missbeetle wrote:My thinking is died elsewhere, stored in 5a.

That's interesting, i haven't heard this one before. I think it is much more probably it all happened in 5A myself. Would there not be witnesses to anything untoward happening outside or do you think an accident happened outside that night when it was dark? If so, how would you fit this in with the 10pm alert, possible to be that organised?

I go with the death at an earlier date, but when and where and how, I don't know.

I also think an earlier date, in 5a with time for a serious fumigation afterwards (hense no Maddie DNA)  IMO it was due to something so gruesome that they couldn't present the body. If she had died from an accident there is no resaon why they would have to hide anything, even if she had fell off the sofa and lay all night before she was found. Most people sleep for 8 hours and don't get up checking on their kids every hour. I don't think for one minute they ever left their kids alone.
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Post by Issy 06.07.14 2:32

HelenMeg wrote:
missbeetle wrote:My thinking is died elsewhere, stored in 5a.
But the blood was located  in floor tiles behind sofa and on walls in 5A. It seems likely to me that death occurred where blood located. Hence clean up.
I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex
What if something happened outside, then she was taken inside and attempt made to resuscitate her, resulting in blood? Pure speculation, of course, and probably unlikely, but I suppose every possibility should be considered. All IMO, of course.
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Post by End 06.07.14 2:37

Issy wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
missbeetle wrote:My thinking is died elsewhere, stored in 5a.
But the blood was located  in floor tiles behind sofa and on walls in 5A. It seems likely to me that death occurred where blood located. Hence clean up.
I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex
What if something happened outside, then she was taken inside and attempt made to resuscitate her, resulting in blood? Pure speculation, of course, and probably unlikely, but I suppose every possibility should be considered. All IMO, of course.

But why cover it up?
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Post by Issy 06.07.14 2:46

End wrote:
Issy wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
missbeetle wrote:My thinking is died elsewhere, stored in 5a.
But the blood was located  in floor tiles behind sofa and on walls in 5A. It seems likely to me that death occurred where blood located. Hence clean up.
I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex
What if something happened outside, then she was taken inside and attempt made to resuscitate her, resulting in blood? Pure speculation, of course, and probably unlikely, but I suppose every possibility should be considered. All IMO, of course.

But why cover it up?
I meant if something happened because she left the apartment by herself while her parents were at the Tapas bar. According to Fiona Payne's rogatory interview, Kate floated the idea that Madeleine could get out and come looking for them if she woke up, hence the door left unlocked. But if Madeleine actually did that and then met with an accident, it would have grave consequences for them. This is all pure speculation as I said, but I'm just following a train of thought from what Kate said to Fiona, and the logical conclusion is that Madeleine could have got out, otherwise why say that at all? Another possibility if she got out is of course that she could have been snatched by someone, but that wouldn't explain the dog alerts. All IMO.
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Post by PurpleLilly 06.07.14 3:08

Issy wrote:
End wrote:
Issy wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
missbeetle wrote:My thinking is died elsewhere, stored in 5a.
But the blood was located  in floor tiles behind sofa and on walls in 5A. It seems likely to me that death occurred where blood located. Hence clean up.
I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex
What if something happened outside, then she was taken inside and attempt made to resuscitate her, resulting in blood? Pure speculation, of course, and probably unlikely, but I suppose every possibility should be considered. All IMO, of course.

But why cover it up?
I meant if something happened because she left the apartment by herself while her parents were at the Tapas bar. According to Fiona Payne's rogatory interview, Kate floated the idea that Madeleine could get out and come looking for them if she woke up, hence the door left unlocked. But if Madeleine actually did that and then met with an accident, it would have grave consequences for them. This is all pure speculation as I said, but I'm just following a train of thought from what Kate said to Fiona, and the logical conclusion is that Madeleine could have got out, otherwise why say that at all? Another possibility if she got out is of course that she could have been snatched by someone, but that wouldn't explain the dog alerts. All IMO.

If people had asked Kate whether Madeleine could have walked out herself, she may have felt that it was a 'normal' or 'logical' possibility and so mentioned it perhaps.

It sounds like the streets were quite busy late at night. If Madeleine had got out and hurt, i would think there would be a witness out there. Otherwise why not call for help and say you were with her when it happened (or it happened in the apartment). You couldn't if the injury was incompatable with that (i.e. drowning in swimming pool or something). I wonder if the pool areas had cameras. Will search for that info tomorrow, too difficult from my phone :)
all jmo.
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Post by Praiaaa 06.07.14 7:22

HelenMeg wrote:

I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex

Completely agree. It amazes me that people take GM at his own evaluation - ie a person of importance  big grin  and assume a conspiracy more like a Dan Brown thriller.
IMO was simple and banal, an accident, maybe resulting from MM drowsiness from a non-commercially available sedative and the cover-up was to protect their reputations/careers. Maybe there has been incidents in the past which had attracted the attention of Social Service (the empty dossier) or in the case of the Paynes, some rumours or accusations even if unfounded that they did not want to come to light.
GM strikes me as a spoiled youngest child, bully, control-freak (hence wide legs sitting position) pulled himself out of a poor background, wannabe middle-class. The  thing snowballed, people actually took GM at his own valuation.
This was an out-of-season cheapo Mark Warner-lite - no way was this a high-up Bilderberg type meeting with shadowy T10/T11 etc. This was a group of cash-strapped parents, taking granny along, wanting the middle-class lifestyle they aspired to, but as cheaply as possible, hence the blagging a discount for baby-listening serve that MW never said was available.
As to the MW PR people flown in - of course they were going to protect their brand - any suspicion that the nannies may not have known how many children were in their care would have put off all those who like to park their kids in the crèches, which is the major MW selling point.
IMO the pink 'un saw a bandwagon and future cash-cow  - his book will make a lot of money when the truth comes out. Of course he won't have asked TM to explain the anomalies - why would he? If they don't tell him, he can claim innocence.  
And very much doubt all those early backers or politicians asked them either - were probably just caught up in the hype, not interested in detail. Emperors New Clothes.
All IMO of course.
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Post by waiting for justice 06.07.14 7:49

Praiaaa wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:

I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex

Completely agree. It amazes me that people take GM at his own evaluation - ie a person of importance  big grin  and assume a conspiracy more like a Dan Brown thriller.
IMO was simple and banal, an accident, maybe resulting from MM drowsiness from a non-commercially available sedative and the cover-up was to protect their reputations/careers. Maybe there has been incidents in the past which had attracted the attention of Social Service (the empty dossier) or in the case of the Paynes, some rumours or accusations even if unfounded that they did not want to come to light.
GM strikes me as a spoiled youngest child, bully, control-freak (hence wide legs sitting position) pulled himself out of a poor background, wannabe middle-class. The  thing snowballed, people actually took GM at his own valuation.
This was an out-of-season cheapo Mark Warner-lite - no way was this a high-up Bilderberg type meeting with shadowy T10/T11 etc. This was a group of cash-strapped parents, taking granny along, wanting the middle-class lifestyle they aspired to, but as cheaply as possible, hence the blagging a discount for baby-listening serve that MW never said was available.
As to the MW PR people flown in - of course they were going to protect their brand - any suspicion that the nannies may not have known how many children were in their care would have put off all those who like to park their kids in the crèches, which is the major MW selling point.
IMO the pink 'un saw a bandwagon and future cash-cow  - his book will make a lot of money when the truth comes out. Of course he won't have asked TM to explain the anomalies - why would he? If they don't tell him, he can claim innocence.  
And very much doubt all those early backers or politicians asked them either - were probably just caught up in the hype, not interested in detail. Emperors New Clothes.
All IMO of course.

I also believe in this theory. IMO it was the deliberate confusion caused afterwards that threw the scent off
the line of enquiry that could've been taken. I think what happened after and since just got out of hand and the 
group were hardly able to go back on their word so it spiralled. 
I think the M's are so far up their  own arses that by virtue of the fact they've lost a child regardless of in what circumstances they believe they're entitled to all the glory and fame it has brought them. 

I still think the public are being drip fed snippets to change the perception of the believers as many probably aren't ready to accept the truth. 
I think over the years SY and other forces have done an amazing job at uncovering crime relating to close family members and although slow, I am holding on to belief that this case will be no different.
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Post by Baldrick 06.07.14 7:59

waiting for justice wrote:
Praiaaa wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:

I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex

Completely agree. It amazes me that people take GM at his own evaluation - ie a person of importance  big grin  and assume a conspiracy more like a Dan Brown thriller.
IMO was simple and banal, an accident, maybe resulting from MM drowsiness from a non-commercially available sedative and the cover-up was to protect their reputations/careers. Maybe there has been incidents in the past which had attracted the attention of Social Service (the empty dossier) or in the case of the Paynes, some rumours or accusations even if unfounded that they did not want to come to light.
GM strikes me as a spoiled youngest child, bully, control-freak (hence wide legs sitting position) pulled himself out of a poor background, wannabe middle-class. The  thing snowballed, people actually took GM at his own valuation.
This was an out-of-season cheapo Mark Warner-lite - no way was this a high-up Bilderberg type meeting with shadowy T10/T11 etc. This was a group of cash-strapped parents, taking granny along, wanting the middle-class lifestyle they aspired to, but as cheaply as possible, hence the blagging a discount for baby-listening serve that MW never said was available.
As to the MW PR people flown in - of course they were going to protect their brand - any suspicion that the nannies may not have known how many children were in their care would have put off all those who like to park their kids in the crèches, which is the major MW selling point.
IMO the pink 'un saw a bandwagon and future cash-cow  - his book will make a lot of money when the truth comes out. Of course he won't have asked TM to explain the anomalies - why would he? If they don't tell him, he can claim innocence.  
And very much doubt all those early backers or politicians asked them either - were probably just caught up in the hype, not interested in detail. Emperors New Clothes.
All IMO of course.
 goodpost
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Post by PeterMac 06.07.14 8:13

It is always simple and banal.
Which is why story tellers are able to make money out of making things complex and exciting. And ridiculous !

I have tried reading a PD James, but had to steel myself to go back to it after the first three pages, as I had been given the book as a present.
Unutterable tosh, and not even entertaining. The characters and the scenario might as well have been out of Harry Potter. I kept waiting for an elf or a dragon
I loved Conan Doyle, but finished the oeuvre aged 12, when ones powers of imagination at probably at their height, and before reality hits.

So yes, stick with the simple and banal. Accident, arrogance and stupidity is enough to explain everything.
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Post by PeterMac 06.07.14 9:24

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/did-you-murder-madeleine-did-you-hide.html

Arguidos were confronted with direct questions about the crime and all of them refuted it
by Marisa Rodrigues

"Did you murder Madeleine?  Did you hide her body?  Did you assault the apartment?".
These were some of the questions put to the four men constituted as arguidos [formal suspects] at the behest of the Scotland Yard. They have all agreed to answer them to refute their involvement in the child's disappearance.

The police interrogations did not result in arrests nor in information that would allow to support the English thesis that the girl was killed for allegedly having surprised burglars in the apartment where the parents left her alone with her twin siblings to go out and dine with friends. The same happened with the inquiries to the 11 witnesses that went on yesterday at the Judiciary Police(PJ) headquarters in Faro.

So SY now has 15 sheets of paper with the word "NO" written down multiple times down the left hand side.
Good work, Sir.

But what it DOES reveal is that Grange is pursuing
Death in the apartment   -
Concealment of the body -

Was any one of them asked
"Did you take Madeleine and sell her in Barcelona to an Australian woman ?
"Did you take Madeleine and are you keeping in a Hellish Lair just outside this village ?
"Did you take Madeleine and sell her as the new "Chosen one" to a family in Morrocco ?"

And if not, why not ?
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Post by joyce1938 06.07.14 9:42

regarding the post saying that the streets seemed busy that night ,it has been said that infact  so early in season ,the evenings are very quiet,hardly anyone around in the area,so maybe not a lot of people to say too much .The timeline seems it cant be relied upon ,not even amongst the staff I felt ,so maybe timeline has been good waty to keep us all busy when infact may be not what we think it is ?did anyone really check at all ?joyce1938
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Post by plebgate 06.07.14 9:44

PeterMac wrote:http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/did-you-murder-madeleine-did-you-hide.html

Arguidos were confronted with direct questions about the crime and all of them refuted it
by Marisa Rodrigues

"Did you murder Madeleine?  Did you hide her body?  Did you assault the apartment?".
These were some of the questions put to the four men constituted as arguidos [formal suspects] at the behest of the Scotland Yard. They have all agreed to answer them to refute their involvement in the child's disappearance.

The police interrogations did not result in arrests nor in information that would allow to support the English thesis that the girl was killed for allegedly having surprised burglars in the apartment where the parents left her alone with her twin siblings to go out and dine with friends. The same happened with the inquiries to the 11 witnesses that went on yesterday at the Judiciary Police(PJ) headquarters in Faro.

So SY now has 15 sheets of paper with the word "NO" written down multiple times down the left hand side.
Good work, Sir.

But what it DOES reveal is that Grange is pursuing
Death in the apartment   -
Concealment of the body -

Was any one of them asked
"Did you take Madeleine and sell her in Barcelona to an Australian woman ?
"Did you take Madeleine and are you keeping in a Hellish Lair just outside this village ?
"Did you take Madeleine and sell her as the new "Chosen one" to a family in Morrocco ?"

And if not, why not ?
No doubt Rocky's new solicitor will make Madam Judge aware of this.
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Post by Guest 06.07.14 10:10

Another one from the Mail this morning.  I think this one has it all - gypsies, scrubland, the water treatment plant, a prime suspect, a well, Euclides Monteiro, a deserted farmhouse...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html
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Post by Bishop Brennan 06.07.14 10:36

BlackCatBoogie wrote:Another one from the Mail this morning.  I think this one has it all - gypsies, scrubland, the water treatment plant, a prime suspect, a well, Euclides Monteiro, a deserted farmhouse...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html

It really does have the lot - including the compulsory "bungled cops" side-swipe:  "Mr Ramm said: ‘If this had been a Yard-led inquiry from the outset, there is no doubt that the search would have been wider and more effective than that conducted by the Portuguese police."

And the required 'no comment':  The McCanns’ spokesman said yesterday: ‘Kate and Gerry continue to have full confidence in the work being carried out by the Met Police but will not comment on it.’"


Barrel scraping?
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Post by Issy 06.07.14 10:48

PurpleLilly wrote:
Issy wrote:
End wrote:
Issy wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
missbeetle wrote:My thinking is died elsewhere, stored in 5a.
But the blood was located  in floor tiles behind sofa and on walls in 5A. It seems likely to me that death occurred where blood located. Hence clean up.
I think the story was simple - it was the confusion created afterwards that made this so complex
What if something happened outside, then she was taken inside and attempt made to resuscitate her, resulting in blood? Pure speculation, of course, and probably unlikely, but I suppose every possibility should be considered. All IMO, of course.

But why cover it up?
I meant if something happened because she left the apartment by herself while her parents were at the Tapas bar. According to Fiona Payne's rogatory interview, Kate floated the idea that Madeleine could get out and come looking for them if she woke up, hence the door left unlocked. But if Madeleine actually did that and then met with an accident, it would have grave consequences for them. This is all pure speculation as I said, but I'm just following a train of thought from what Kate said to Fiona, and the logical conclusion is that Madeleine could have got out, otherwise why say that at all? Another possibility if she got out is of course that she could have been snatched by someone, but that wouldn't explain the dog alerts. All IMO.

If people had asked Kate whether Madeleine could have walked out herself, she may have felt that it was a 'normal' or 'logical' possibility and so mentioned it perhaps.

It sounds like the streets were quite busy late at night. If Madeleine had got out and hurt, i would think there would be a witness out there. Otherwise why not call for help and say you were with her when it happened (or it happened in the apartment). You couldn't if the injury was incompatable with that (i.e. drowning in swimming pool or something). I wonder if the pool areas had cameras. Will search for that info tomorrow, too difficult from my phone :)
all jmo.

Didn't one of them say the road was usually quiet at night? Sorry, can't remember who, but I think it might have one of the Tapas 9 who said something about it being a lonely walk back to the apartments for child-checking. There was also a mention of someone seen or heard looking for Madeleine in the vicinity of the swimming pool, but I suppose the whole area needed to be searched so that doesn't necessarily mean anything. (Sorry for being so vague, but a lot of my info on the case is in an older goosed computer (dead screen) where a hard drive reader is needed to read it. I really need to sort it.)

All IMO, as usual. And now back to the gypsies ...
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Post by PeterMac 06.07.14 10:57

The photo makes it clear that it is unlikely that anyone could miss the well.

Ding dong Bell
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Post by Themis 06.07.14 11:07

The claim is that it was telephone activity that made at least 3 of those recently questioned of interest is telephone activity and that the activity may have pointed to them watching the apartment and/or the McCanns.
Telephone activity the police are investigating is stated as;
May 2
Suspect A ( 51-year-old heroin addict), to Suspect B, ( beggar then aged just 16) at 12.08pm the day before Madeleine vanished.
May 3
B exchanged four phone calls and texts with Suspect C, ( 33-year-old ex-Ocean Club driver).
1 - 5.26pm  at the time Madeleine was collected from the resort’s crèche.
2 - A text message at 9.25pm when two of the M’s friend left the restaurant to check children
3 - 9.38pm when JT left the restaurant to check on her children.
4 -  9.51pm as KM walked to the apartment
However (although the actual timings are questionable) here is how I think this may compare to movements from the restaurant or around the apartment on the 3rd;
1 – 8.35pm GM and KM leave to go to the restaurant NO TEL CONTACT
2 – 9.00pm RO and GM leave the table NO TEL CONTACT
3 – 9.05pm JT leaves the table NO TEL CONTACT
4 – 9.15pm GM checks apartment NO TEL CONTACT
5 – 9.30pm GM returns to the table and MO and RO leave to check on the children CONTACT?
7 – 9.35pm JT leaves the restaurant CONTACT?
6 – 9.55 PM, as soon as RB arrives back KM leaves CONTACT?

So; it is  possible the suspects were together watching the apartment and then split at the point the Ms went to the restaurant, perhaps one near the apartment and one watching the group, but if you were watching why no contact around the early movements? (This does however perhaps  fit with SY moving the period of interest back after discounting the JT 9.15 sighting).

If the phone contacts are relevant then the messages must have been something like;
9.25 people on way (not safe to enter apartment?)
9.38 same
9.51 same

The longest period between calls is 13 mins is this time having send a text (or make a call) to enter the apartment kill a child remove the body clean the scene?

Someone with far more knowledge than me about the actual timings of movement to and from the table will probably be able to correct my understanding.
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Post by ChippyM 06.07.14 11:15

BlackCatBoogie wrote:Another one from the Mail this morning.  I think this one has it all - gypsies, scrubland, the water treatment plant, a prime suspect, a well, Euclides Monteiro, a deserted farmhouse...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html

And all the usual, 'why didn't the portuguese search these areas at the time', comments.   Please numpties stop relying on the Daily Mail as your one blinkered source of information  eek 

"Local authorities only allowed British police to check areas where ground anomalies picked up by aerial surveys might indicate a grave site."

IF, that bit is true, maybe it's down to the recent searches taking into account the sniffer dog trail that went cold around 5a. It went cold in a nearby carpark according to the files. If SY were using aerial forensics to look at areas maybe it was because they aknowledged that the body was removed at some point (eg in a car) and then possibly transported to another area and that would be why the trail went cold.   But instead we have the usual story of the nasty PJ doing everything possible to hinder SY.
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Post by Hopespringseternal 06.07.14 11:23

Voice / phone call contact I can see would be handy as an alert but text? I don't know about others, but sometimes I can send a text and it's minutes (or longer!) before it arrives, similarly not all texts are received instantly. Anyway, if they're so fired up about mobile usage, when are they going to get down to the nitty-gritty of the T9 mobile usage......or have I missed that tit-bit in the press?
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Post by Sparklehorse 06.07.14 12:01

Matching the suspects calls to the T9 movements is only of value if their actual timings movements are known - not the various versions of checking etc that they have stated to date. IMO
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Post by Monty Heck 06.07.14 12:11

PeterMac wrote:The photo makes it clear that it is unlikely that anyone could miss the well.

Ding dong Bell
Despite the claims of the Ex Met chap, it's inconceivable that this farm/well were not thoroughly searched during summer 2007, if not immediately after 3 May.  Ground and dog searches in the PDL vicinity and along the N125 between PDL/Lagos were still ongoing during late July/early August of that year.  No link avaible, this from personal observation.
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Post by Monty Heck 06.07.14 12:23

Themis wrote:The claim is that it was telephone activity that made at least 3 of those recently questioned of interest is telephone activity and that the activity may have pointed to them watching the apartment and/or the McCanns.
Telephone activity the police are investigating is stated as;
May 2
Suspect A ( 51-year-old heroin addict), to Suspect B, ( beggar then aged just 16) at 12.08pm the day before Madeleine vanished.
May 3
B exchanged four phone calls and texts with Suspect C, ( 33-year-old ex-Ocean Club driver).
1 - 5.26pm  at the time Madeleine was collected from the resort’s crèche.
2 - A text message at 9.25pm when two of the M’s friend left the restaurant to check children
3 - 9.38pm when JT left the restaurant to check on her children.
4 -  9.51pm as KM walked to the apartment
However (although the actual timings are questionable) here is how I think this may compare to movements from the restaurant or around the apartment on the 3rd;
1 – 8.35pm GM and KM leave to go to the restaurant NO TEL CONTACT
2 – 9.00pm RO and GM leave the table NO TEL CONTACT
3 – 9.05pm JT leaves the table NO TEL CONTACT
4 – 9.15pm GM checks apartment NO TEL CONTACT
5 – 9.30pm GM returns to the table and MO and RO leave to check on the children CONTACT?
7 – 9.35pm JT leaves the restaurant CONTACT?
6 – 9.55 PM, as soon as RB arrives back KM leaves CONTACT?

So; it is  possible the suspects were together watching the apartment and then split at the point the Ms went to the restaurant, perhaps one near the apartment and one watching the group, but if you were watching why no contact around the early movements? (This does however perhaps  fit with SY moving the period of interest back after discounting the JT 9.15 sighting).

If the phone contacts are relevant then the messages must have been something like;
9.25 people on way (not safe to enter apartment?)
9.38 same
9.51 same

The longest period between calls is 13 mins is this time having send a text (or make a call) to enter the apartment kill a child remove the body clean the scene?

Someone with far more knowledge than me about the actual timings of movement to and from the table will probably be able to correct my understanding.
Thanks for setting this out so clearly Themis, very helpful.  As Hopespringseteral mentions on page following, text would be a most unlikely choice over the instant communication of a call.  At best these calls appear an extremely tenous link to the case; the facts should fit the theory, and if they need to be stretched in order to fit they simply don't ,IMO.
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