Life Before Portugal

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 12:25

Again sorry if this has been covered I am sure it must have been, I have scrolled through the previous threads and cannot find anything though.

Was there ever any reference made to Madeleine by her nursery school teachers, play group teachers etc?

Was there ever any reference made to Madeleine by neighbours, shop keepers, locals etc etc?

I thought I heard tell that she was cared for by a nanny whilst Kate worked, if this is true who was she? Was she a childminder or a private nanny?

If someone can point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.
thanks

by jd 17.05.12 12:38

Here are the statements in the PJ files Hummingbird:

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by Guest 17.05.12 12:57

This is the only reference I have ever found, I think there were more but whooshed, re the McCanns having a nanny, the bit in bold in the article below in our press archives..............

Valerie Armstrong, landlady of Rothley’s Royal Oak pub, where the McCanns sometimes go for lunch or dinner, said: “They are lovely, gentle, caring people.” She said that they would let pnly their nanny or relatives babysit the children, and chose the Mark Warner resort precisely because they thought that it was safe.

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bit in red misspelled in article, should be only.

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 13:52

jd wrote:Here are the statements in the PJ files Hummingbird:

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Well these make very interesting reading! Almost as if each person, the cleaner suddenly childcarer, the teacher and the teaching assistant, are saying the same thing. Why would a Dr first and for most leave her children with a person who is not registered on the childminding lists (I think even back then there were CRBs in place) It was often told to new parents to leave your children with recognised childcarers! Also remember she waited so long to have such a precious baby, my daughter has just had her first and is terrified of who she is going to leave her baby with when she has to return to work, should there ever be a time I can't have her.

Very odd that the teachers boyfriend was a cousin of Kates it would appear that the McCanns world is a very small one!!

And why do they all harp on about how friendly GM & KM were!!! Almost angelic like!!

I cannot believe that this is it, the only people who ever knew Madeleine enough to make these comments. I cannot believe that the papers wouldn't have been questioning locals, neighbours etc about them. Very very odd indeed.

by Newintown 17.05.12 14:04

Hummingbird wrote:Again sorry if this has been covered I am sure it must have been, I have scrolled through the previous threads and cannot find anything though.

Was there ever any reference made to Madeleine by her nursery school teachers, play group teachers etc?

Was there ever any reference made to Madeleine by neighbours, shop keepers, locals etc etc?

I thought I heard tell that she was cared for by a nanny whilst Kate worked, if this is true who was she? Was she a childminder or a private nanny?

If someone can point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.
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About a year or two ago on the Telegraph website (I think it was the Telegraph) there was a message board which attracted hundreds of comments. One was from someone who worked at a nursery in the Rothley area and knew about the McCanns. She mentioned that the children always had nannies who were changed on a regular basis so that they did not get too familiar with the children. She also mentioned that K & G ate out regularly at quite expensive restaurants without the children The comment was whooshed within a few days. Whether it was true or not, who knows, but I don't suppose the McCanns were too happy about it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hummingbird said:
"I cannot believe that this is it, the only people who ever knew Madeleine enough to make these comments. I cannot believe that the papers wouldn't have been questioning locals, neighbours etc about them. Very very odd indeed."

If a superinjunction has been taken out by the McCanns I doubt that any newspaper would print anything said by neighbours etc. even if they all had been interviewed. Also if NI were up the McCanns backsides, as they seem to be, they probably promised the McCanns not to print any personal information if they had a pact with them, which also seems to be the case seeing what has come out in the LI.

by Newintown 17.05.12 14:05

Oops, not sure why my comments at 2.04 p.m. came out in a quotation box. Sorry about that!

by Mariita 17.05.12 14:07

I recently came across an interview with their closest neighbours in Rothley. It was from 2007 or 2008, in a swedish magazine. If you are interested Hummingbird I will look for it, and translate. But it´s similar to other references, I`m afraid. Positive and nothing but... I think their last name is Bond.

by **tigger** 17.05.12 14:12

There is a short video interview with a local lady who wasn't too charmed with the McCanns. It may still be on youtube.

Found it! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's a very good question you've asked, because I think we should look at 2006. In 2005 - the Majorca holiday when the twins were on about 5/6 months old - Maddie was regularly taken on trips with the Paynes, to 'give Kate and Gerry quality time with the twins'. Says it all doesn't it?
Where did they go on holiday in 2006?

Doesn't really agree with Eileen and Philomena McCann who said she was 'a little mother' to the twins. We don't get that in the book, Kate says something 'the worst of it was Madeleine wanting attention' when Kate was busy with the twins.

The general idea I got from the book is that they went away on weekend trips very regularly, that and the upmarket restaurants might explain why they needed to have help from the family and paid the mortgage out of the Fund. Gerry has visited Portugal for golfing weekends.

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 15:08

tigger wrote:There is a short video interview with a local lady who wasn't too charmed with the McCanns. It may still be on youtube.

Found it! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's a very good question you've asked, because I think we should look at 2006. In 2005 - the Majorca holiday when the twins were on about 5/6 months old - Maddie was regularly taken on trips with the Paynes, to 'give Kate and Gerry quality time with the twins'. Says it all doesn't it?
Where did they go on holiday in 2006?

Doesn't really agree with Eileen and Philomena McCann who said she was 'a little mother' to the twins. We don't get that in the book, Kate says something 'the worst of it was Madeleine wanting attention' when Kate was busy with the twins.

The general idea I got from the book is that they went away on weekend trips very regularly, that and the upmarket restaurants might explain why they needed to have help from the family and paid the mortgage out of the Fund. Gerry has visited Portugal for golfing weekends.

Tigger thanks for that I never knew about Madeleine having regular trips with the Paynes that is very interesting and why would any parents especially those who have tried so hard to become parents have to have quality time with only two out of the three? - speaks volumes - yet again - cements my theory that Madeleine was surplus to requirements!
Yes 2006 would be interesting, did they all go together, perhaps to Portugal, (might explain a few pictures!!) And if he has visited for golfing weekends before who did he go with? Why not go to Scotland, and take in a visit to family at the same time?
By the way I have always refused to read her book but I am beginning to think I should give it a go what do you think?

by Newintown 17.05.12 15:15

tigger wrote:There is a short video interview with a local lady who wasn't too charmed with the McCanns. It may still be on youtube.

Found it! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's a very good question you've asked, because I think we should look at 2006. In 2005 - the Majorca holiday when the twins were on about 5/6 months old - Maddie was regularly taken on trips with the Paynes, to 'give Kate and Gerry quality time with the twins'. Says it all doesn't it?
Where did they go on holiday in 2006?

Doesn't really agree with Eileen and Philomena McCann who said she was 'a little mother' to the twins. We don't get that in the book, Kate says something 'the worst of it was Madeleine wanting attention' when Kate was busy with the twins.

The general idea I got from the book is that they went away on weekend trips very regularly, that and the upmarket restaurants might explain why they needed to have help from the family and paid the mortgage out of the Fund. Gerry has visited Portugal for golfing weekends.

K & G have always come across as people who had children, mainly to pacify the grandparents I would think, but didn't want the fuss and mess that kids make. It reminds me of a cousin of mine and her husband who were both very houseproud and always "keeping up with the Jones's (Jones' ?)'". They had 2 children who were always sent to their bedrooms to play so they didn't mess up the very pristine beige lounge carpet, and they ate on their own in the kitchen (never with Mum and Dad) as they made so much mess when they ate the father couldn't bear to watch them eat.

They did grow up OK and went on to have families of their own, by the way. They weren't affected in any way by their parents dismissal of them.

by jd 17.05.12 16:09

Just some random info about Life before Portugal:

Russell O'Brien was Best Man for David Payne's marriage to Fiona Webster in 2003
Russell O'Brien was Best Man for Matt Oldfield's marriage to Rachel Mampilly in 1999

Russell O'Brien has known David Payne since 1989, Matt Oldfield since 1994

Russell O'Brien has known gerry mccann since 2002 /2003. The contact between them was established by the Payne couple

Jane Tanner (Russell O'Brien's partner) got pregnant around the same time as kate mccann.... Maddie & Tanners/O'Briens daughter are more or less a month apart in ages....mmmmmmm

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 16:14

jd wrote:Just some random info about Life before Portugal:

Russell O'Brien was Best Man for David Payne's marriage to Fiona Webster in 2003
Russell O'Brien was Best Man for Matt Oldfield's marriage to Rachel Mampilly in 1999

Russell O'Brien has known David Payne since 1989, Matt Oldfield since 1994

Russell O'Brien has known gerry mccann since 2002 /2003. The contact between them was established by the Payne couple

Jane Tanner (Russell O'Brien's partner) got pregnant around the same time as kate mccann.... Maddie & Tanners/O'Briens daughter are more or less a month apart in ages....mmmmmmm

Thanks for that it is most strange you should say that as you are almost suggesting the same line of thought and theory I am working on at the moment.

By the way does anyone know who was the McCanns best man and did they have a Catholic wedding?

by friedtomatoes 17.05.12 17:07

jd wrote:

Jane Tanner (Russell O'Brien's partner) got pregnant around the same time as kate mccann.... Maddie & Tanners/O'Briens daughter are more or less a month apart in ages....mmmmmmm

No, there is a four month difference. Source: JT rogatory interview.

by jd 17.05.12 17:10

friedtomatoes wrote:
jd wrote:

Jane Tanner (Russell O'Brien's partner) got pregnant around the same time as kate mccann.... Maddie & Tanners/O'Briens daughter are more or less a month apart in ages....mmmmmmm

No, there is a four month difference. Source: JT rogatory interview.

No it is more or less a month. ROB PJ statement 4th May. The original statements are more truthful than the RI's

"He works as a doctor. He is a colleague of (Gerry) McCann, having worked together for six months. His partner became pregnant around the same time as Gerry's wife. The informant's daughter, ****, and Madeleine Beth McCann are more or less a month apart in ages. **** and Madeleine go to the same room at the Kids Cub, near the reception. The staff are Cat and another person named Emma. "

by friedtomatoes 17.05.12 17:18

deleted, error

JTs RI mentions September, if she was referring to her youngest why did she say she would have been 1 in May 2007, when she would have been c 9 months, anyway, minor point, I accept that Maddie and Tanners daughter were born within a month or so. Still, why is that significant?

by anil39200 17.05.12 18:18

CRB checks have been in for a long time, certainly before 2000, and as time has gone on, have been extended to more and more people who come into contact with children . Of course, some parents appear to need checks, along with education in how to treat their own children, especially when on holiday.
It would also seem that there are differing opinions as to what family life was like prior to 2007. Some say they were the perfect family, and there are others who say the opposite. Why would a much loved and longed for child be in the care of a nanny when the mother only worked part time? Then there are the stories about colic and M being a lively child, and of course the silly remark about the 'tuppence worth', as if a three Year old, possibly scared witless could do that, etc etc. There seem to be lots of examples of confusion at work.

by Truthwillout 17.05.12 18:49

Hummingbird wrote:
tigger wrote:There is a short video interview with a local lady who wasn't too charmed with the McCanns. It may still be on youtube.

Found it! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's a very good question you've asked, because I think we should look at 2006. In 2005 - the Majorca holiday when the twins were on about 5/6 months old - Maddie was regularly taken on trips with the Paynes, to 'give Kate and Gerry quality time with the twins'. Says it all doesn't it?
Where did they go on holiday in 2006?

Doesn't really agree with Eileen and Philomena McCann who said she was 'a little mother' to the twins. We don't get that in the book, Kate says something 'the worst of it was Madeleine wanting attention' when Kate was busy with the twins.

The general idea I got from the book is that they went away on weekend trips very regularly, that and the upmarket restaurants might explain why they needed to have help from the family and paid the mortgage out of the Fund. Gerry has visited Portugal for golfing weekends.

Tigger thanks for that I never knew about Madeleine having regular trips with the Paynes that is very interesting and why would any parents especially those who have tried so hard to become parents have to have quality time with only two out of the three? - speaks volumes - yet again - cements my theory that Madeleine was surplus to requirements!
Yes 2006 would be interesting, did they all go together, perhaps to Portugal, (might explain a few pictures!!) And if he has visited for golfing weekends before who did he go with? Why not go to Scotland, and take in a visit to family at the same time?
By the way I have always refused to read her book but I am beginning to think I should give it a go what do you think?

I agree that from what I've read it seems as though Madeleine was was surplus to requirements. I just don't understand it, I have a 1 yr old & 2 yr old & although I love them both dearly, my eldest will always be special because she was our first, even though she suffered from Colic for months & I don't think I slept for more than 2 hours a night in the first 6 months! I can't imagine 'shipping' her off so we could spend time with our other daughter.

As for all the friends, neighbours etc harping on about how friendly GM & KM were. I could perhaps understand that when it first happened, as nobody wants to be the 'nasty' one who show's no sympathy when a couple may have just had their child abducted. But I would of thought that after all this time someone may have come out and told the truth about them, or have they & the papers just won't print it sad

by friedtomatoes 17.05.12 19:26

Maddie was surplus to requirements? I find no evidence for this line of thought, so will agree to disagree. As for CRB checks, I know many women who have had close friends or family looking after their kids, therefore no need for them. CRB checked or not, a stranger is still a stranger, its up to each family to chose.

by Truthwillout 17.05.12 19:40

friedtomatoes wrote:Maddie was surplus to requirements? I find no evidence for this line of thought, so will agree to disagree. As for CRB checks, I know many women who have had close friends or family looking after their kids, therefore no need for them. CRB checked or not, a stranger is still a stranger, its up to each family to chose.

I feel that once the twins were born Madeleine seems to have been palmed off so that GM & KM could spend quality time with the twins, why would any parent do that?
Each child needs as much attention as the next from it's parents.

Anyhow thats my view & it would be a pretty boring debate if everyone agreed big grin

by friedtomatoes 17.05.12 19:45

Truthwillout wrote:
friedtomatoes wrote:Maddie was surplus to requirements? I find no evidence for this line of thought, so will agree to disagree. As for CRB checks, I know many women who have had close friends or family looking after their kids, therefore no need for them. CRB checked or not, a stranger is still a stranger, its up to each family to chose.

I feel that once the twins were born Madeleine seems to have been palmed off so that GM & KM could spend quality time with the twins, why would any parent do that?
Each child needs as much attention as the next from it's parents.

Anyhow thats my view & it would be a pretty boring debate if everyone agreed

Yes it would be boring, but to go from parents of three young chikdren getting help to some theory that they did away with her because they couldnt cope or didnt want her is just totally ludicrous IMO

by Guest 17.05.12 19:53

friedtomatoes wrote:
Truthwillout wrote:
friedtomatoes wrote:Maddie was surplus to requirements? I find no evidence for this line of thought, so will agree to disagree. As for CRB checks, I know many women who have had close friends or family looking after their kids, therefore no need for them. CRB checked or not, a stranger is still a stranger, its up to each family to chose.

I feel that once the twins were born Madeleine seems to have been palmed off so that GM & KM could spend quality time with the twins, why would any parent do that?
Each child needs as much attention as the next from it's parents.

Anyhow thats my view & it would be a pretty boring debate if everyone agreed

Yes it would be boring, but to go from parents of three young chikdren getting help to some theory that they did away with her because they couldnt cope or didnt want her is just totally ludicrous IMO

I don't go for that either, but it does happen. One that springs to mind is Susan Smith, I watched a programme about her, and it was said that her boyfriend didn't want children so she drowned them by pushing the car into the river.

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by Hummingbird 17.05.12 19:55

friedtomatoes wrote:
Truthwillout wrote:
friedtomatoes wrote:Maddie was surplus to requirements? I find no evidence for this line of thought, so will agree to disagree. As for CRB checks, I know many women who have had close friends or family looking after their kids, therefore no need for them. CRB checked or not, a stranger is still a stranger, its up to each family to chose.

I feel that once the twins were born Madeleine seems to have been palmed off so that GM & KM could spend quality time with the twins, why would any parent do that?
Each child needs as much attention as the next from it's parents.

Anyhow thats my view & it would be a pretty boring debate if everyone agreed

Yes it would be boring, but to go from parents of three young chikdren getting help to some theory that they did away with her because they couldnt cope or didnt want her is just totally ludicrous IMO

Well there has to be a reason why they did what we all think they must have done otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it. It does seem that the 'evidence' of sending Madeleine to stay with others, holiday with others, lack of pictures of her etc etc seems to point to a lack of interest in her, but then again maybe we are wrong that is why we are discussing this to get to a final end point when we all agree on the one subject, then maybe we have finally solved the missing puzzle piece and until that time the debate will go on and on.

If they needed help they of all people should have known how to access it without anyone else knowing as they seem pretty well close to a lot of influential people.

Again all just my opinion and in no way having a pop at anyone else's

by friedtomatoes 17.05.12 19:56

That was a new boyfriend who made SS chose between him and her kids, I doubt Gerry issued such ultimatum to Kate

by friedtomatoes 17.05.12 20:03

Hummingbird wrote:Again sorry if this has been covered I am sure it must have been, I have scrolled through the previous threads and cannot find anything though.

Was there ever any reference made to Madeleine by her nursery school teachers, play group teachers etc?

Was there ever any reference made to Madeleine by neighbours, shop keepers, locals etc etc?

I thought I heard tell that she was cared for by a nanny whilst Kate worked, if this is true who was she? Was she a childminder or a private nanny?

If someone can point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

do you have a theory behind asking these questions? can you share it please?

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 20:05

friedtomatoes wrote:That was a new boyfriend who made SS chose between him and her kids, I doubt Gerry issued such ultimatum to Kate

I too would like to think that he didn't BUT then again we have no idea what he may have just found out that would make him do this! I think it is worse that you would listen to someone you hardly know. KM was married to GM and therefore he would have known her better and able to put up a bigger ultimatum!

Again just opinion!