Re: BACK ON THREAD

[suzyjohnson]

Several months before Portugal re-opened the file, officers from the Crown Prosecution Service flew out to meet their counterparts in Portugal, imo that was not to discuss prosecuting Portuguese citizens.  

  

That is a very good point actually. If SY were only in Portugal to assist the Portuguese police then why would the British Crown Prosecution service be involved at all? Unless they were specifically looking at a case going through the British criminal courts then they wouldn't be involved would they?

[bobbin]

Several months before Portugal re-opened the file, officers from the Crown Prosecution Service flew out to meet their counterparts in Portugal, imo that was not to discuss prosecuting Portuguese citizens.  

  

That is a very good point actually. If SY were only in Portugal to assist the Portuguese police then why would the British Crown Prosecution service be involved at all? Unless they were specifically looking at a case going through the British criminal courts then they wouldn't be involved would they?

Cynical me, it could be they were hoping to get the case transferred to the UK jurisdiction, have all of the PJ information sent over, and then lose it all in a back drawer hand it to the home office to consider how long a D notice to put on it all to see how to proceed.   

[Mrs Holmes]

Some good points raised about the money. I agree that these celebrities were merely trying to help in the beginning, although their silence speaks volumes these days. Good point made about the donations being pledges, I think that is far more likely.

I don't believe in a whitewash, and here are my thoughts on the matter:

Rebekah Brooks was the driving force in having the review opened, not the Mccans who were 'relieved' when the PJ case (which they could have requested opened at any time) was shelved. 

SY needs a win badly, there have been too many negative stories about corruption and they need a positive outcome to this case.

If we look at some of the facts of the investigation we can see that over time they have drip-fed information to a largely supportive public, which has changed the perception of the McCanns and the case.

i.e That MBM is likely dead, that the official timeline given to us over the past few years is incorrect. 

When people have been conditioned to think one way, it can come as a big shock to tell them the opposite is true, to effect a mass change in thinking requires this bit-by-bit approach.

SY are co-operating with the PJ despite what the papers are claiming. It was clear that the McCanns knew nothing of the ground searches or we wouldn't have had the quotes from Kate & Gerry re he need for a combined effort, or the frankly ridiculous follow up claims of asking them to delay said searches. I've often wondered if the helicopter (apart from the likely purpose of hyperspectral analysis) 
was designed to illicit a reaction. 

I wouldn't be surprised wire taps are in play. SY also has access to Credit Card files, Phone and Medical records, plus the threat of a charge of 'Perverting the Course of Justice' against those whose stories they may wish to clarify.

Some may wonder about the approach SY is taking, but in my view it makes sense. When dealing with suspects that have the appearance of having all their bases covered, then there is only way to go about investigating and bringing a successful prosecution.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

The latest stories of serial sex attacks serve three purposes IMO. 

1 - these crimes did occur and the victims should be helped and justice sought. 
2 - SY shows the British public that the money use on OG is helping genuine victims of crime 
3 - the ensuing media furore allows SY to go about their real lines of enquiry. 

I have a feeling that political motivations will come into play. 

Again I have a couple of theories. Cameron could use this case, in conjunction with the Iraq War Enquiry to destroy the Labour Party. 

The McCann case could be used to whitewash the War Enquiry, and Gordon Brown gets the blame for interfering with the PJ enquiry due to his friendship with GM's brother, and attention is diverted away from Blair.

I feel the lead up to the election is going to be very interesting!

[PeterMac]

Very interesting, and neatly put.

[canada12]

Very interesting, and neatly put.

I agree. Very astute observations.

[Woofer]

Several months before Portugal re-opened the file, officers from the Crown Prosecution Service flew out to meet their counterparts in Portugal, imo that was not to discuss prosecuting Portuguese citizens.  

  

That is a very good point actually. If SY were only in Portugal to assist the Portuguese police then why would the British Crown Prosecution service be involved at all? Unless they were specifically looking at a case going through the British criminal courts then they wouldn't be involved would they?

You`ve renewed my optimism Cristobell - I`d forgotten about the CPS going over to Pt.  This was in the April 2013 AFAIR just after the PJ re-opened the case.  The thing is, the actual Head of the CPS (Alison Saunders) went over together with her second in command.  If it had just been about the possible prosecution of any old Joe Bloggs from UK I don`t reckon the Head Honcho and her No.2. would have gone - it would have been delegated to other people in the CPS team or just her No.2.  It makes me think it was more `sensitive` and the possible prosecution was about peoples more important.

[Watching]

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

The latest stories of serial sex attacks serve three purposes IMO. 

1 - these crimes did occur and the victims should be helped and justice sought. 
2 - SY shows the British public that the money use on OG is helping genuine victims of crime 
3 - the ensuing media furore allows SY to go about their real lines of enquiry. 

I have a feeling that political motivations will come into play. 

Again I have a couple of theories. Cameron could use this case, in conjunction with the Iraq War Enquiry to destroy the Labour Party. 

The McCann case could be used to whitewash the War Enquiry, and Gordon Brown gets the blame for interfering with the PJ enquiry due to his friendship with GM's brother, and attention is diverted away from Blair.

I feel the lead up to the election is going to be very interesting!

But Redwood is not eliminating what is impossible!  And what is improbable, he still requires hard evidence!  He's had THREE years and still hasn't got it?  When you have hard evidence against someone, no need to continue with eliminating every bin man or burglar.  If SY had hard evidence against Mr& Mrs they would have acted before now.  Three years a very long time.

The 'stories' of sex serial sex attacks?

(a) All victims of crime deserve justice.  Not up to SY to investigate crimes in Portugal.

(b) OG not set up to show British public that they are spending the money helping other genuine victims of crime (committed in Portugal)      money is to investigate Maddie Case.  And how are they going to help?  Are they going to solve these crimes too if not connected to      Maddie's disappearance, just go off track? Plenty crimes in Britain which people DID report at the time of offences, needing solved.

(c) What ensuing media furore?  And what is it that is going to happen which will result in an ensuing media furore, that THEN allows SY to GO ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS?

So you don't think this investigation may be a whitewash but it will be used to whitewash, pretty much everything else?

[Mrs Holmes]

But Redwood is not eliminating what is impossible!  And what is improbable, he still requires hard evidence!  He's had THREE years and still hasn't got it?  When you have hard evidence against someone, no need to continue with eliminating every bin man or burglar.

**We don't know what information Redwood has, we didn't know about the ground searches until they happened, yet they had been planned for a very long time.

This isn't just about investigating a case, it's about bringing about a Prosecution, which means the burden of proof has to be beyond reasonable doubt. The suggestion of bin men and burglars could be used by the defence to introduce doubt, therefore they have to be eliminated.

Throughout the course of the enquiry several leads have been ruled out as impossible, each scenario presented to SY that has then discounted leads us closer to the truth**

The 'stories' of sex serial sex attacks?

(a) All victims of crime deserve justice.  Not up to SY to investigate crimes in Portugal.

**I agree, but SY appears to have uncovered other UK victims during the course of their enquiries**

(b) OG not set up to show British public that they are spending the money helping other genuine victims of crime (committed in Portugal)      money is to investigate Maddie Case.  And how are they going to help?  Are they going to solve these crimes too if not connected to      Maddie's disappearance, just go off track? Plenty crimes in Britain which people DID report at the time of offences, needing solved.

**These announcements by SY could be nothing more than a way of showing the public that they are making progress, it just seems to me that they've thrown the press a tasty morsel to keep them satisfied, while they get on with the real focus of their enquiries**

(c) What ensuing media furore?  And what is going to cause this ensuing media furore that THEN allows SY to GO ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS?

**One only has to look at the papers to see what I mean about a media furore. It's happened already - diverting attention is a sure fire  way of being able to carry out enquiries that require privacy**

So you don't think this investigation may be a whitewash but it will be used to whitewash, pretty much everything else?

**No, I have offered 2 possible theories, that is all**

[Watching]

But Redwood is not eliminating what is impossible!  And what is improbable, he still requires hard evidence!  He's had THREE years and still hasn't got it?  When you have hard evidence against someone, no need to continue with eliminating every bin man or burglar.

**We don't know what information Redwood has, we didn't know about the ground searches until they happened, yet they had been planned for a very long time.

This isn't just about investigating a case, it's about bringing about a Prosecution, which means the burden of proof has to be beyond reasonable doubt. The suggestion of bin men and burglars could be used by the defence to introduce doubt, therefore they have to be eliminated.

Throughout the course of the enquiry several leads have been ruled out as impossible, each scenario presented to SY that has then discounted leads us closer to the truth**

The 'stories' of sex serial sex attacks?

(a) All victims of crime deserve justice.  Not up to SY to investigate crimes in Portugal.

**I agree, but SY appears to have uncovered other UK victims during the course of their enquiries**

(b) OG not set up to show British public that they are spending the money helping other genuine victims of crime (committed in Portugal)      money is to investigate Maddie Case.  And how are they going to help?  Are they going to solve these crimes too if not connected to      Maddie's disappearance, just go off track? Plenty crimes in Britain which people DID report at the time of offences, needing solved.

**These announcements by SY could be nothing more than a way of showing the public that they are making progress, it just seems to me that they've thrown the press a tasty morsel to keep them satisfied, while they get on with the real focus of their enquiries**

(c) What ensuing media furore?  And what is going to cause this ensuing media furore that THEN allows SY to GO ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS?

**One only has to look at the papers to see what I mean about a media furore. It's happened already - diverting attention is a sure fire  way of being able to carry out enquiries that require privacy**

So you don't think this investigation may be a whitewash but it will be used to whitewash, pretty much everything else?

**No, I have offered 2 possible theories, that is all**

Thank you for your reply Mrs Holmes I have responded in black bold

**We don't know what information Redwood has, we didn't know about the ground searches until they happened, yet they had been planned for a very long time.

But the ground searches haven't happened.

This isn't just about investigating a case, it's about bring about a Prosecution, which means the burden of proof has to be beyond reasonable doubt. The suggestion of bin men and burglars can be used by the defence to introduce doubt, therefore they have to be eliminated.

That is exactly what I said.  And if case not whitewash & if SY know who are their suspects (Mr & Mrs?) and have hard evidence for successful prosecution they are taking a very long time to act on it.  If you have your suspect, and are building evidence to secure charges & hopefully successful prosecution, no one else needs to be ruled out eliminated. Three years down the line, that elimination would have or should have happened long before now.  And if concentrating on Mr & Mrs no need for feeding press.
Who would know SY were in Portugal if they did not leak this info?  Who would have given any thought to a copter flying over PDL?

Throughout the course of the enquiry several leads have been ruled out as impossible, each scenario presented to SY that us then discounted leads us closer to the truth**

The 'impossible' doesn't require to be ruled out.  The only leads (use term loosely) which Redwood has ruled out is Tannerman, replaced him with creche daddy.  Haven't heard Redwood speak of ruling anyone out - EXCEPT Mr & Mrs, their friends, and all those people who they know but who did not accompany on the holiday to Portugal (not verbatim but he said words to that effect)


The 'stories' of sex serial sex attacks?

**I agree, but SY appears to have uncovered other UK victims during the course of their enquiries**

Wouldn't go so far as to say they uncovered them.  Anything SY has, is in Portuguese Files, and most matters already dealt with by Portuguese.  Doesn't matter either way though, not their remit to investigate any other crime in Portugal or use the funds for Maddie Case for this purpose.  SY have no jurisdiction in Portugal.

**These announcements by SY could be nothing more than a way of showing the public that they are making progress, it just seems tonne that they've thrown the press a tasty morsel while they get on with the real focus of their enquiries**

Nothing more than showing the public they are making progress?  It shows the opposite.  Smelly bin men?   No need to throw press any morsel, just get on with job in hand, nothing preventing them to get on with what you refer to as the 'real focus' of their inquiries.  And there was no need for Redwood to announce at beginning that Mr & Mrs et al were not suspects.


**One only has to look at the papers to see what I mean about a media furore. It's happened already - diverting attention is a sensible way of carrying out enquiries that require privacy**

Oh understand media furore we've had that since Mr & Mrs et al contacted press, but you said, that a press furore would ensue.  Ensue after what event?


**No, I have offered 2 possible theories, that is all**


So you don't believe that this case is being used to whitewash the others which you spoke of?


This SY investigation may,may not be whitewash, but lots pointing to it being just that.

[Cristobell]

Some good points raised about the money. I agree that these celebrities were merely trying to help in the beginning, although their silence speaks volumes these days. Good point made about the donations being pledges, I think that is far more likely.

I don't believe in a whitewash, and here are my thoughts on the matter:

Rebekah Brooks was the driving force in having the review opened, not the Mccans who were 'relieved' when the PJ case (which they could have requested opened at any time) was shelved. 

SY needs a win badly, there have been too many negative stories about corruption and they need a positive outcome to this case.

If we look at some of the facts of the investigation we can see that over time they have drip-fed information to a largely supportive public, which has changed the perception of the McCanns and the case.

i.e That MBM is likely dead, that the official timeline given to us over the past few years is incorrect. 

When people have been conditioned to think one way, it can come as a big shock to tell them the opposite is true, to effect a mass change in thinking requires this bit-by-bit approach.

SY are co-operating with the PJ despite what the papers are claiming. It was clear that the McCanns knew nothing of the ground searches or we wouldn't have had the quotes from Kate & Gerry re he need for a combined effort, or the frankly ridiculous follow up claims of asking them to delay said searches. I've often wondered if the helicopter (apart from the likely purpose of hyperspectral analysis) 
was designed to illicit a reaction. 

I wouldn't be surprised wire taps are in play. SY also has access to Credit Card files, Phone and Medical records, plus the threat of a charge of 'Perverting the Course of Justice' against those whose stories they may wish to clarify.

Some may wonder about the approach SY is taking, but in my view it makes sense. When dealing with suspects that have the appearance of having all their bases covered, then there is only way to go about investigating and bringing a successful prosecution.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

The latest stories of serial sex attacks serve three purposes IMO. 

1 - these crimes did occur and the victims should be helped and justice sought. 
2 - SY shows the British public that the money use on OG is helping genuine victims of crime 
3 - the ensuing media furore allows SY to go about their real lines of enquiry. 

I have a feeling that political motivations will come into play. 

Again I have a couple of theories. Cameron could use this case, in conjunction with the Iraq War Enquiry to destroy the Labour Party. 

The McCann case could be used to whitewash the War Enquiry, and Gordon Brown gets the blame for interfering with the PJ enquiry due to his friendship with GM's brother, and attention is diverted away from Blair. 

I feel the lead up to the election is going to be very interesting!

  Brilliant!  And a warm welcome Mrs Holmes.

I too suspect that Cameron will use this case to annihilate Labour.  Questions must be asked as to why CEOP actively promoted this case as an 'abduction', when all the evidence pointed towards an accidental death.  

Why should Cameron put his neck on the line for Gordon Brown, and at the same time caste doubt about his credibility in the months leading up to a General Election?  How many people in the 'real' world still believe the McCanns?  Going by the comments sections of popular newspapers in the UK, I would guess only about 20%, if that, ergo, 80% of the population will believe Cameron, the tories and Scotland Yard are corrupt.  Not a wise move.

The McCanns have been untouchable because it was believed they had huge public support.  Kate warned there would be rioting in the streets if they were arrested.  The fact that they continue to buy a ridiculous number of 'likes' for their facebook page, show that 'huge support' is a tactic they are sticking with. However, their vanity exposed the true level of their public support as donations to their running, hopping and skipping were dismal.  Where were all the millionaire backers, the household names, the candle lighters?

I agree, the lead up to the election will be very interesting!

[Mrs Holmes]

But the ground searches haven't happened.

**I realise I hadn't made myself clear, by ground searches I mean the whole line of enquiry, not just the literal searches.

That is exactly what I said.  And if case not whitewash & if SY know who are their suspects (Mr & Mrs?) and have hard evidence for successful prosecution they are taking a very long time to act on it.  If you have your suspect, and are building evidence to secure charges & hopefully successful prosecution, no one else needs to be ruled out eliminated. Three years down the line, that elimination would have or should have happened long before now.  And if concentrating on Mr & Mrs no need for feeding press.
Who would know SY were in Portugal if they did not leak this info?  Who would have given any thought to a copter flying over PDL?

**My understanding of OG was to review all aspects of the case, they may well have started out believing in the McCann's innocence (as by law they should) and decided to begin by ruling out all other leads eg peado rings etc, making them 'impossible' to the scenario. The ruling out process eventually leads us to the truth (hopefully).

The publicity re the helicopter etc really does put across to the public that SY is looking for a body, and it wouldn't surprise me if wire taps were in place to deal with the family and tapas 7 reactions. 

The 'impossible' doesn't require to be ruled out.  The only leads (use term loosely) which Redwood has ruled out is Tannerman, replaced him with creche daddy.  Haven't heard Redwood speak of ruling anyone out - EXCEPT Mr & Mrs, their friends, and all those people who they know but who did not accompany on the holiday to Portugal (not verbatim but he said words to that effect)

**We don't know what else they've ruled out behind closed doors**

Wouldn't go so far as to say they uncovered them.  Anything SY has, is in Portuguese Files, and most matters already dealt with by Portuguese.  Doesn't matter either way though, not their remit to investigate any other crime in Portugal or use the funds for Maddie Case for this purpose.  SY have no jurisdiction in Portugal.

**No they don't, but they have a moral and legal obligation to assist any victims of crime, regardless of whether any link exists to this case**

Nothing more than showing the public they are making progress?  It shows the opposite.  Smelly bin men?   No need to throw press any morsel, just get on with job in hand, nothing preventing them to get on with what you refer to as the 'real focus' of their inquiries.  And there was no need for Redwood to announce at beginning that Mr & Mrs et al were not suspects.

**But SY haven't said there was a smelly bin man, the press reported that people had heard bin men at the time these incidents took place and wild interpretation ensued, this is where we have to be careful in discerning what information is accurate and what is assumption when relying on news stories.

I do believe that SY are playing the press, feeding them innocuous information here and there, they're happy and selling papers and SY can get on with he task at hand without speculation from 'sources close to the McCanns' jeopardising their lines of enquiry and prejudicing the public.

Oh understand media furore we've had that since Mr & Mrs et al contacted press, but you said, that a press furore would ensue.  Ensue after what event?

**I'm referring to the media furore that followed the Sex Attacker stories, I believe this was leaked to the press to distract what SY doing right now**

So you don't believe that this case is being used to whitewash the others which you spoke of?

**Those are theories, not beliefs and there are only 2 that I have put forward, you originally replied by saying that I believed it to be a white wag to cover up 'pretty much everything else' 

This SY investigation may,may not be whitewash, but lots pointing to it being just that.

**True, and just as much pointing towards it not being

[angusallan]

Some good points raised about the money. I agree that these celebrities were merely trying to help in the beginning, although their silence speaks volumes these days. Good point made about the donations being pledges, I think that is far more likely.

I don't believe in a whitewash, and here are my thoughts on the matter:

Rebekah Brooks was the driving force in having the review opened, not the Mccans who were 'relieved' when the PJ case (which they could have requested opened at any time) was shelved. 

SY needs a win badly, there have been too many negative stories about corruption and they need a positive outcome to this case.

If we look at some of the facts of the investigation we can see that over time they have drip-fed information to a largely supportive public, which has changed the perception of the McCanns and the case.

i.e That MBM is likely dead, that the official timeline given to us over the past few years is incorrect. 

When people have been conditioned to think one way, it can come as a big shock to tell them the opposite is true, to effect a mass change in thinking requires this bit-by-bit approach.

SY are co-operating with the PJ despite what the papers are claiming. It was clear that the McCanns knew nothing of the ground searches or we wouldn't have had the quotes from Kate & Gerry re he need for a combined effort, or the frankly ridiculous follow up claims of asking them to delay said searches. I've often wondered if the helicopter (apart from the likely purpose of hyperspectral analysis) 
was designed to illicit a reaction. 

I wouldn't be surprised wire taps are in play. SY also has access to Credit Card files, Phone and Medical records, plus the threat of a charge of 'Perverting the Course of Justice' against those whose stories they may wish to clarify.

Some may wonder about the approach SY is taking, but in my view it makes sense. When dealing with suspects that have the appearance of having all their bases covered, then there is only way to go about investigating and bringing a successful prosecution.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

The latest stories of serial sex attacks serve three purposes IMO. 

1 - these crimes did occur and the victims should be helped and justice sought. 
2 - SY shows the British public that the money use on OG is helping genuine victims of crime 
3 - the ensuing media furore allows SY to go about their real lines of enquiry. 

I have a feeling that political motivations will come into play. 

Again I have a couple of theories. Cameron could use this case, in conjunction with the Iraq War Enquiry to destroy the Labour Party. 

The McCann case could be used to whitewash the War Enquiry, and Gordon Brown gets the blame for interfering with the PJ enquiry due to his friendship with GM's brother, and attention is diverted away from Blair.

I feel the lead up to the election is going to be very interesting!

Gordon Brown friend of GM's brother?Are you sure?
IIRC It was a friend of TM  in Glasgow who knew the brother of Gordon Brown that led to the then chancellor sticking his oar in.

[Mrs Holmes]

I may be mistaken there, I shall check my references - but I think it's safe to say there's a personal link between the McCanns and the Browns

[BlondSurfer]

Was'nt it that Gerry's brother was a neighbor of Gordon Brown's brother?

[angusallan]

I may be mistaken there, I shall check my references - but I think it's safe to say there's a personal link between the McCanns and the Browns

The Guardian saturday 2nd june  2007 article by Esther Addley
Neverending Story
Jill Renwick was called by KM at 7am 4th may 2007 .She in turned called GMTV.JR lived on same street as GB's brother John.She knocked on his door.Nothing personal.

[Watching]

Mrs Holmes have replied to you in bold Black



**I realise I hadn't made myself clear, by ground searches I mean the whole line of enquiry, not just the literal searches.

That's a bit of a turnaround.  Big difference in 'ground searches' and the 'whole line of enquiry?'

**My understanding of OG was to review all aspects of the case, they may well have started out believing in the McCann's innocence (as by law they should) and decided to begin by ruling out all other leads eg peado rings etc, making them 'impossible' to the scenario. The ruling out process eventually leads us to the truth (hopefully).

Indeed it is.  That is what it makes it very strange that at the beginning, he announced that Mr & Mrs & their friends were not suspects, he went much further and stated that neither was anyone who knows them, persons, any friends, family, who did not holiday with them. Also that he was working on stranger abduction!

But that's an interesting view you have, that - SY may have started out believing in the innocence of Mr & Mrs - and no, that is not a requirement of law that they should BELIEVE anyone to be innocent in whatever the case.  The law does not state that the CIO Chief Investigating Officer or any other, should commence any investigating believing anyone to be innocent. 

Redwood said he took this case back to zero.  Back to Zero would then mean the obvious, back to the night Maddie was reported missing if not the days before.  And the obvious persons to investigate first would be Mr & Mrs & their friends, those who last saw the child, those responsible for her, those who were in and out of 5A listening at shutters.  More so as Redwood had available to him the Portuguese Police Files filled to bursting with lies & inconsistencies. But he chose to track down paedophile rings, the dead - all to no avail?

If Mr & Mrs are guilty, and the files had so much pointing in that direction, why would any body of police, say, well -let's not go there, let's investigate everybody in the land & if we don't come up with anything, we'll go back to where we should really have started?

The publicity re the helicopter etc really does put across to the public that SY is looking for a body, and it wouldn't surprise me if wire taps were in place to deal with the family and tapas 7 reactions. 

Ah, wire taps - to deal with Mr & Mrs & the tapas 7 - to get their reactions.  Just like the helicopter then to get the reaction of the public?

**We don't know what else they've ruled out behind closed doors**

So, there are some they have ruled out behind closed doors, but they chose to announce to the world made public, only that they have ruled out Mr & Mrs et al?  Why not tell us about all the rest they may have ruled out? -  It is what they have ruled-in that is of interest, oh and of course -Why they ruled out TM BEFORE INVESTIGATING THEM as you suggest!

**No they don't, but they have a moral and legal obligation to assist any victims of crime, regardless of whether any link exists to this case**

Indeed they do and Maddie is the victim of crime that they are morally and legally obligated to assist in this instance.  NOT any others.  These other crimes were committed in Portugal. Any information SY came across or was reported to them when investigating the Maddie Case should be referred to Portugal.  SY HAVE NO JURISDICTION TO INVESTIGATE OTHER CRIMES, and certainly not under OG using the funding for this investigation.

**But SY haven't said there was a smelly bin man, the press reported that people had heard bin men at the time these incidents took place and wild interpretation ensued, this is where we have to be careful in discerning what information is accurate and what is assumption when relying on news stories.

SY HAVE said that the attacks on the British girls were committed by a smelly man, he may or may not be a bin man, but it is a fat smelly man with a t.shirt with a target emblazoned on back!  There is also a reward by SY for information leading to Maddie's abductors!

May I just say you have not been discerning in the information you have based your comments, you appear to believe all that you have read in press.

I do believe that SY are playing the press, feeding them innocuous information here and there, they're happy and selling papers and SY can get on with he task at hand without speculation from 'sources close to the McCanns' jeopardising their lines of enquiry and prejudicing the public.

The press don't need SY to feed them anything.  Clarence Mitchell does a grand job of that has done since beginning!  And the press are as we know adept at making it up on their own if necessary.   Sources close to the McCanns cannot jeopardise any police investigation.  Do you honestly believe that if SY are after Mr & Mrs they will allow them to jeopardise their lines of inquiry or that a few few stupid stories in press by McC source would actually jeopardise any genuine investigation which was targetting Mr & Mrs?   

**I'm referring to the media furore that followed the Sex Attacker stories, I believe this was leaked to the press to distract what SY doing right now**

Well, well, another change to your original version.  This is the third on this count.   We are now talking the furore that followed the sex attackers?  Why are we now then talking about that exactly?

**Those are theories, not beliefs and there are only 2 that I have put forward, you originally replied by saying that I believed it to be a white wag to cover up 'pretty much everything else' 

I did indeed, every other case that you mentioned in your original post you considered the Maddie Case was to be used to whitewash.

**True, and just as much pointing towards it not being

Hardly!

I think Mrs Holmes we will have to agree to disagree on this one!

[Mrs Holmes]

Watching, I thought this was a discussion forum yet you're making a lot of assumptions about me rather than the discussing the topic, you've misunderstood a lot of what I'm trying to say, I think I'll go back to lurking.

[Guest]

Watching, I thought this was a discussion forum yet you're making a lot of assumptions about me rather than the discussing the topic, you've misunderstood a lot of what I'm trying to say, I think I'll go back to lurking.

It is a discussion forum, please do not be put off.

[Watching]

Watching, I thought this was a discussion forum yet you're making a lot of assumptions about me rather than the discussing the topic, you've misunderstood a lot of what I'm trying to say, I think I'll go back to lurking.

 
Mrs Holmes, 

I am indeed discussing the topic hence my responses to the points you have made.  You may not like that I disagree with much of what you have written, but that happens in discussion, we won't all agree all of the time, sometimes, not any of the time. It is okay to hold different views and opinions.   You don't agree with my views but I'm not throwing a hairy fit over it.  As adults we are able to agree to disagree.

[Watching]

Watching, I thought this was a discussion forum yet you're making a lot of assumptions about me rather than the discussing the topic, you've misunderstood a lot of what I'm trying to say, I think I'll go back to lurking.

It is a discussion forum, please do not be put off.

Exactly Candyfloss!  I certainly won't be put off by someone who doesn't like another member disagreeing with them.  Each entitled to our opinion, and when we post it on a discussion forum, we must accept that we have opened our views up to challenge.  We must also accept that not everyone, maybe no one at all, will agree with the points we have made.  That's life!

[lj]

Several months before Portugal re-opened the file, officers from the Crown Prosecution Service flew out to meet their counterparts in Portugal, imo that was not to discuss prosecuting Portuguese citizens.  

  

That is a very good point actually. If SY were only in Portugal to assist the Portuguese police then why would the British Crown Prosecution service be involved at all? Unless they were specifically looking at a case going through the British criminal courts then they wouldn't be involved would they?

Cynical me, it could be they were hoping to get the case transferred to the UK jurisdiction, have all of the PJ information sent over, and then lose it all in a back drawer hand it to the home office to consider how long a D notice to put on it all to see how to proceed.   

Make that 2 cynicals

[Cristobell]

Watching, I thought this was a discussion forum yet you're making a lot of assumptions about me rather than the discussing the topic, you've misunderstood a lot of what I'm trying to say, I think I'll go back to lurking.

Mrs Holmes, please don't be put off from posting, sometimes you have to develop a tough skin on this forum, but your theories are interesting and valid, so don't ever hesitate to post.