Red Flags

quote rainbow fairy   :   The beans reference is intriguing - a very odd phrase to use - its not like beans just fall off shelves is it? It could well be a not-so-subtle reference to telling the truth (or not, as is the case!)  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


and strange too that Kate writes that this posh woman reacted as if she had ben told about a falling can of beans.  As if you would tell anyone that had happened!

rainbow-fairy wrote:
The beans reference is intriguing - a very odd phrase to use - its not like beans just fall off shelves is it? It could well be a not-so-subtle reference to telling the truth (or not, as is the case!)  

A can of beans would not fall but a human bean might.

(I was going to put a smilie because of the terrible pun but the implication of what I have typed makes it wholly inappropriate)

Woofer wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:

BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...

Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

Could be coincidences again but Alice Day is based on Lewis Carroll`s interest in young girls and of course he wrote Alice in Wonderland - there have been other Alice references during this saga i.e. Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee, cuddle Cat is very similar to the Cheshire Cat, Bread and Butterflies; there`s also a KEY in the story which Alice can`t reach because she`s drunk the drink that made her small.

Not linked to Alice in Wonderland but wonder if the reference to the can of beans falling off the shelf is `spilling the beans`.

Re Alice in Wonderland, I seem to remember a pool, a race and a trial.

russiandoll wrote:quote rainbow fairy   :   The beans reference is intriguing - a very odd phrase to use - its not like beans just fall off shelves is it? It could well be a not-so-subtle reference to telling the truth (or not, as is the case!)  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


and strange too that Kate writes that this posh woman reacted as if she had ben told about a falling can of beans.  As if you would tell anyone that had happened!

Exactly that russiandoll. It is so out of context (or is it?) In general people make comparisons to peoples reactions but 'beans falling off a shelf'?!? I probably wouldn't react at all if someone told me that had happened!
Poe, yes, surely a tin of beans could be pushed off or knocked over, but 'fall'? Hmmm. I can see the point you are making - here I would add a smilie too but they haven't loaded up on this page. Maybe just as well as I use them too much!

MILLIE wrote:

Woofer wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:

BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...

Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

Could be coincidences again but Alice Day is based on Lewis Carroll`s interest in young girls and of course he wrote Alice in Wonderland - there have been other Alice references during this saga i.e. Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee, cuddle Cat is very similar to the Cheshire Cat, Bread and Butterflies; there`s also a KEY in the story which Alice can`t reach because she`s drunk the drink that made her small.

Not linked to Alice in Wonderland but wonder if the reference to the can of beans falling off the shelf is `spilling the beans`.

Re Alice in Wonderland, I seem to remember a pool, a race and a trial.

Hmmm - some interesting co-incidences - there is mention of a key in Estrela de Madeleine:-

"João Tavares looks away from the ocean for a moment, and looking at Francisco, he says:

- I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key.

Those would be the 5, the 2, the 3 and the 1!"

I'm not sure what the bread signifies in Alice in Wonderland but wasn't there a loaf of bread found in the bag dumped near Faro airport:-

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The bread isn't mentioned in this link but I am absolutely positive I read about being in there since it was a really odd item, I thought at the time it must symbolise something. I will try and find the exact link - pls correct me if I am wrong about this.

Also, could the pink/blue pencil case with the pink heart motif be linked to the known symbols used by paedophiles - they are shown on this link and copied below:-

 http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/safety-tips-for-parents-children/international-boylove-day-ibld-22nd-june-21-december/paedophile-abbreviations/


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There has to be a reason these specific things were in the bag - were they again a warning to someone to keep quiet (like I believe the "make-up" and "ice-cream" photos were?).

Just some thoughts - I realise this is now verging on fantasy with Alice in Wonderland symbolic connections but I believe that there is something in the background binding all of this together, and these sorts of symbols would be well-known to well-versed paedophiles.

ETA: the explanations for the above symbols are all on the ukpaedo-exposed website - if you can't stomach browsing it then I can post the explanations here.
EAT: have done some googling and there is indeed a loaf of bread in A in W:-

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And the butterflies are heart shaped like the logo above.  Has anyone ever seen a picture of the pink/blue pencil case with hearts that was found in the bag?  Hmmm

Maybe the PTB decided we needed a modern day version of Alice in Wonderland to subtly re-inforce the normalisation of paedophilia in our society  - no guessing who the White Queen is then - but who is Gerry?  

MILLIE wrote:

Woofer wrote:

rainbow-fairy wrote:

BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...

Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

Could be coincidences again but Alice Day is based on Lewis Carroll`s interest in young girls and of course he wrote Alice in Wonderland - there have been other Alice references during this saga i.e. Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee, cuddle Cat is very similar to the Cheshire Cat, Bread and Butterflies; there`s also a KEY in the story which Alice can`t reach because she`s drunk the drink that made her small.

Not linked to Alice in Wonderland but wonder if the reference to the can of beans falling off the shelf is `spilling the beans`.

Re Alice in Wonderland, I seem to remember a pool, a race and a trial.

That's interesting thanks MILLIE, high time I re-read it. Have forgotten most of it. Let's hope the trial becomes reality too...

bodiddly wrote:Helenmeg I am an avid Textusa reader and her theory intrigues me.
I like her writing style and I enjoy reading her blog.  There are not many that post their theories in such detail and this is what makes her so exciting to read.

Yes, Me too. I like her because she goes into such meticulous detail and bases her findings on facts. She also homes in on details that others ignore - such as how you cannot possibly carry a dead child over your shoulder hence Smithman had to be carrying a live child. That in itself amazed me as I would have just assumed you can carry dead and live bodies in a similar manner.
Anyway, nice to know others appreciate all the work that she puts in too!!

I had often thought swinging was the big thing as the records from computer searches on GM computer all came up swinging and different parts of the world different swingers groups. Perhaps it was KM looking it up? At any rate its not a crime. I also believe the bigger thing might be pedophilia which you could cover up as a family holiday. I just have been realizing how KM takes a grain of truth and uses it in a web of lies... Almost like a good mystery writer and it's our Job to figure out what is the truth.
Alice Day.... This scares me as I didn't know it existed and how sick it is. Alice in wonderland references make sense and I'm feeling like you all are on to something here.... I remember Alice cried a river.. And Maddy's crying might be connected? Maybe not just trying to help with any similarities.
The beans.... Maybe a reference to Ms. Finn spilling the beans?

kimHager wrote:I had often thought swinging was the big thing as the records from computer searches on GM computer all came up swinging and different parts of the world different swingers groups. Perhaps it was KM looking it up? At any rate its not a crime.  I also believe the bigger thing might be pedophilia which you could cover up as a family holiday. I just have been realizing how KM takes a grain of truth and uses it in a web of lies... Almost like a good mystery writer and it's our Job to figure out what is the truth.  
Alice Day.... This scares me as I didn't know it existed and how sick it is. Alice in wonderland references make sense and I'm feeling like you all  are on to something here.... I remember Alice cried a river.. And Maddy's crying might be connected? Maybe not just trying to help with any similarities.
The beans.... Maybe a reference to Ms. Finn spilling the beans?

Kim - re: your words I`ve bolded above - I didn`t know there was a search of GM`s computer - is this a forum myth ?

Woofer - I will of course let Kim answer this but in case you are searching now I have also definitely seen a list of websites accessed by the Mccann computer when they were in P de Luz and yes it did contain swinging sites, nothing much else of interest (on the face of it anyway) I seem to remember. I am sure it was in the pj files...

coati mundi wrote:Have joined this late but:

DP ROG:
1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''
Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.

I have just seen this and have to say that as someone who represented many people in police station interviews, I find it astounding that he could tell the police that it wasn't " the right forum" to to tell them the things that might be relevant. It was not a "forum" it was a police interview.

Anyone I ever represented would probably have been arrested and pressed to tell the police what they meant by that.

By the way, did anyone ask him what would have been the right forum in which to bring up these "few things"? That should have been the next question.

The sweeping arrogance of these people!

"Anyone I ever represented would probably have been arrested and pressed to tell the police what they meant by that."
-----------------------------------------------------
My earlier 'post'

Currently 'serving' and Ex 'proper' coppers have told me that, DP would not have left the police interview UNTIL he HAD TOLD them what the 'few things' he 'knew' were 'pertinent and relevent to establish the MATERIAL truth' (about a childs 'disappearance')

And would have charged and held him on 'suspicion of perverting the course of justice' UNTIL he TOLD them the 'few things' he knew.

So what (or WHO has?) is 'stopping/stopped' DCI Redwood from doing exactly THAT?

And WHY haven't the McCanns, themselves, asked Operation Grange, to 're-interview' Mr Payne about the 'few things' he knows are 'pertinent and relevent to establish the material TRUTH' about the 'disappearance' of THEIR daughter, Madeleine?
----------------------------------------------------------

This is a 'missing' child he is being asked about, not an unlocked bicycle 'missing' from a bike rack!

Yes woofer and thank you BlackCatBoogie I do believe it was in the PJ files there was several pages on it I will look for the link

The following extract is cut and pasted from 'Vanity Fair' Magazine:

QUOTE
On a hot day last September, four months after their daughter, Madeleine, almost four, vanished from a sleepy resort town in Portugal during a family vacation, Kate and Gerry McCann, both British doctors, opened their villa door to a local policeman.
The policeman’s name was Ricardo, and he had been, relatively speaking, on friendly terms with the couple. He knew their circumstances. Their lives, heavy with grief since their daughter’s disappearance, had undergone a few small improvements. Kate had grown shockingly thin, but at least she was eating regular meals.
This time, however, the bearing of the detective from the Policia Judiciária was different. And the McCanns were not entirely surprised. “Because for months they used to have regular weekly meetings with the Portuguese police, and then they stopped,” recalls Gerry’s older sister Trish Cameron, who was in the villa at the time. Also, without the McCanns’ knowledge or consent, the police had photocopied Kate’s diary, examined her borrowed Bible, and removed Gerry’s laptop.
“Do you have something to tell us?” Ricardo asked, dramatically.
“No,” Kate replied. “Do you have something to tell us?”
He nodded. “Yes. You are being made arguidos.” He was using the Portuguese word for “formal suspects.”
It was at that point, Trish says, that her sister-in-law became incandescent with rage, screaming, “Do you honestly believe that I would murder my own child?”
UNQUOTE

Why would KM scream that? Ricardo did not say 'you are being made arguidos because we suspect you of murder'. Can you imagine the mother of Shannon Matthews being told she was a suspect? She would not scream 'Do you honestly believe I would murder my own child,' because it hadn't happened, she knew it hadn't happened and therefore it wouldn't be the first thing she would have said. I think she would be more likely to scream  ''Do you honestly believe that I would hide my own child somewhere in order to get money?' Because that (the truth) would have been at the forefront of her mind.

By screaming 'Do you honestly believe I would murder my own child?' Is KM giving the game away? Hobbs?

BlackCatBoogie wrote:Woofer - I will of course let Kim answer this but in case you are searching now I have also definitely seen a list of websites accessed by the Mccann computer when they were in P de Luz and yes it did contain swinging sites, nothing much else of interest (on the face of it anyway) I seem to remember. I am sure it was in the pj files...

Hi BCB and Kim - I`ve had a search and can only find references to the fact that the computer was examined by the PJ but nothing with a list of websites visited.

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Perhaps it was another computer.  The above was rented `after 3rd May` for a month.

The McCanns - and their friends up to a point - have consistently done this. From the very beginning they were giving heavy clues as to what had happened and why. But they simply removed themselves from any culpability. But I think this is probably fairly typical behaviors if you are dealing with a certain type of personality trait which I would associate with narcissism, at the least. The finger of blame is pointed onto someone else and their is a refusal to take responsibility for consequences. 
From the very beginning, they caught themselves into a cleft stick in trying so hard to remove themselves from any culpability whatsoever for the disappearance of their daughter. Because, by leaving three children without adult supervision every night they were exposing them to dangers. So it is THEY who are responsible for what happened to their daughter. 

If, say they had hired a responsible babysitter who had, say, fallen asleep in front of the television and a random abductor had managed to enter the apartment and steal Madeleine, then you would not hold them responsible for anything untoward that happened. Because you could argue that they had taken all reasonable steps to ensure the safety of their children and that even a babysitter cannot necessarily be expected to be sitting awake in the same room as the children all evening.

But, the fact is, they did not do this. While the risk of abduction by a stranger is statistically astonishingly low (in fact, according to Kate, she felt there was zero risk of this happening which makes her immediate claim that this IS what happened all the more suspicious) children left alone are much more likely to have an accident, say, which requires emergency treatment. Or just wake up and need comforting to stop them wandering off somewhere and coming to danger. 

Their faked indignation when asked questions that come close to the bone, Gerry's bristling belligerence, Kate's theatrical and whiny denials - they all scream out GUILTY AS HELL, imo.

i recall back to the time that one of my children had sustained an injury that required medical treatment that, unfortunately, was bodged leading to endless complications including pain and disability. I went on a merry-go-round of 'experts' who all fell over themselves to deny the obvious - that there had been a cock-up. Weird and wonderful 'syndromes' were advanced, psychological explanations were offered. My child was 'making up the pain to get attention', I had a type of munchausens. Another classic was: 'does xxxx WANT to get better?'

Given that, prior to the accident, xxxx had been a completely happy, healthy, entirely normal child, these assertions were nothing short of perverse.

I never shouted, or got angry (well, hardly ever!) - I just listened in disbelief at the type of mind-set that would have to work so hard to avoid stating the obvious. I am still gob-smacked when I think back to that whole episode. It was as though heaven and hell had to be moved to deny what was quite obvious.

I think this is what we are seeing with the Madeleine case. It has become a form of insanity. A folie de grandeur of the most monumental kind.

Ok woofer I'm going to snoop till I find it... Maybe it was somewhere else but I know I will come across it.

whmon wrote:The following extract is cut and pasted from 'Vanity Fair' Magazine:

QUOTE
On a hot day last September, four months after their daughter, Madeleine, almost four, vanished from a sleepy resort town in Portugal during a family vacation, Kate and Gerry McCann, both British doctors, opened their villa door to a local policeman.
The policeman’s name was Ricardo, and he had been, relatively speaking, on friendly terms with the couple. He knew their circumstances. Their lives, heavy with grief since their daughter’s disappearance, had undergone a few small improvements. Kate had grown shockingly thin, but at least she was eating regular meals.
This time, however, the bearing of the detective from the Policia Judiciária was different. And the McCanns were not entirely surprised. “Because for months they used to have regular weekly meetings with the Portuguese police, and then they stopped,” recalls Gerry’s older sister Trish Cameron, who was in the villa at the time. Also, without the McCanns’ knowledge or consent, the police had photocopied Kate’s diary, examined her borrowed Bible, and removed Gerry’s laptop.
“Do you have something to tell us?” Ricardo asked, dramatically.
“No,” Kate replied. “Do you have something to tell us?”
He nodded. “Yes. You are being made arguidos.” He was using the Portuguese word for “formal suspects.”
It was at that point, Trish says, that her sister-in-law became incandescent with rage, screaming, “Do you honestly believe that I would murder my own child?”
UNQUOTE

Why would KM scream that? Ricardo did not say 'you are being made arguidos because we suspect you of murder'. Can you imagine the mother of Shannon Matthews being told she was a suspect? She would not scream 'Do you honestly believe I would murder my own child,' because it hadn't happened, she knew it hadn't happened and therefore it wouldn't be the first thing she would have said. I think she would be more likely to scream  ''Do you honestly believe that I would hide my own child somewhere in order to get money?' Because that (the truth) would have been at the forefront of her mind.

By screaming 'Do you honestly believe I would murder my own child?' Is KM giving the game away? Hobbs?

Yes.
 Words are thought of a microsecond before they are spoken or written down, this gives us a good idea what is on the subjects mind at the moment they speak.
In this case murder is at the forefront of her mind when she hears the word arguido.
This is not the first time she has leaked a marble, remember she also said the portugues don't want a murder...

Why would she say murder when the PJ etc are treating this as an abduction?

The expected would be do they honestly believe i would abduct/hide my own child since this is what she would know or believe happened.
The fact she introduces murder using the process of free editing is telling.

The PJ are treating this as an abduction, kate has just told them it was a murder.

Woofer wrote:- I`ve had a search and can only find references to the fact that the computer was examined by the PJ but nothing with a list of websites visited.
.

Please bear in mind that the Olympus camera was handed over to the PJ for examination and eventually sent to Hampshire where it arrived in 8th and was examined on 9th
The Canon was not.
It was in Kate's possession on 10th, early morning.
Dr Amaral realises he had made that crucial mistake when he looked at the photos of the apartment.
As it happens the McCanns have subsequently got him out of the difficultly by publishing the photo, with all the surrounding BS, and then Kate's book, . . so that's all right then.
So we need to be sure that the lap top, - and I seem to remember that there were two - one of their own, one borrowed / hired / . . .
was the only one / two / three

Oh, and by the way - - - - The Last Photo emanated from the Canon

IMO this "last photo" is going to nail them [in combination with the dogs and other unexplained ] ....

He must have had a laptop to write his blog. The first one was hired after the 3rd May for a month.
 
He had one at the villa because I remember it being mentioned - he was writing his blog right up until the day they left Portugal.

He had a white Apple Mac

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After this many pages of swinging /swingers I was looking through many and at this page it was definitely adult swinging before that the searches turned up swinging houses but let me see if I can post the main link and keep scrolling after page 875 that's where there were many more
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Mind you it's only searches done and really doesn't prove or disprove the swinging theory, however in my opinion it says someone was searching for swinging activities in the algarve and in other places. It's not evidence of swinging but for me it does back the theory that it was a swingers holiday.

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After this many pages of swinging /swingers I was looking through many and at this page it was definitely adult swinging before that the searches turned up swinging houses but let me see if I can post the main link and keep scrolling after page 875 that's where there were many more
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Hi Kim - Yes, definitely accessed swingers sites etc ...... but I think this is Sergei Malinka`s seized computer.

Correct me if I`m wrong won`t you.  Thanks for going to the trouble of searching.

Ahhh I think your right sorry I will keep looking my brain is fried from all those pages and I just saw the name my apologies. I am still going to be looking and if I find it I will post the link. If it wasn't GM's laptop my sincere apology as I thought I saw it.... Thank you for alerting me to the name =)

Well I found something more disturbing.. I don't know who's computer it's from but on the page it has some pornographic cartoons depicting pedophiles and parents..... OMG well I for one am completely convinced there was some inappropriate stuff going on there and regardless of if it's anime cartoon I think the PJ didn't show everything they found and still it's sick and disgusting