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Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

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Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Curioser on 12.12.13 4:05

Hi everyone, I'm just wondering if this has been discussed here. I can't find it on searching.


This is from KM's interview on the 6th May: 
"After Gerry arrived the children went to wash their teeth and she then read them another story, this time all four of them sitting on Madeleine's bed. She thinks that Gerry entered the room, but does not recall him sitting on the bed. During the story Madeleine was lying on the pillow, alert and paying attention to the story. After both twins kissed Madeleine, she thinks that Gerry was in the room, and each (Kate and Gerry) placed a twin in its crib at the same time, between Madeleine's bed and the bed next to the window. They also kissed Madeleine, who was lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks because she was a bit cold. She normally clutched the soft toy and if she wasn't holding it then it was next to her, on the left. She remained lying down on her left side, with the soft toy and a pink blanket, to cover her. The twins were laid down on their backs, covered with open weave blankets. She says that she doesn't know if the children were in the same positions when they left the apartment."


We all know how neat and undisturbed the bed near the door looked. How is that possible if Kate, Madeleine and the twins (and possible Gerry) were all sitting on it for the last story?


Does it mean they remade the bed?


Does it mean that wasn't Madeleine's bed at all?

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by canada12 on 12.12.13 8:29

That's a lot of people to be sitting on that one little bed for a goodnight story! Two adults, one child and two toddlers. And no messed up bedcovers at all.

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by PeterMac on 12.12.13 8:50

There is a chapter in the e-book.
What was the weather on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007.
We examine an interesting anomaly.

On Thursday 3rd May 2007 Madeleine and the twins are prepared for bed.

p. 68 “I took them all into their bedroom. Madeleine got into her bed and then Amelie, Sean and I settled ourselves on top of it, with our backs against the wall, for our final story.” [1]

Madeleine is now in bed.

p. 69 Then we kissed the twins, and kissed Madeleine, already snuggled down with her ‘princess’ blanket and Cuddle Cat – a soft toy she’d been given soon after she was born and never went to bed without. [2]

Madeleine is not only in bed, but “snuggled down” This carries a very recognisable connotation in English. Snuggle - To settle or move into a warm comfortable position. You can snuggle into something, or under something. The connotation implies a nest, and all enveloping warmth. The word “nestle” is given in the OED as a definition.

But a short time later
p. 70 “Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch . . .
Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we'd left her." [3]

Now Madeleine is reported to be on top of the bed, with only her legs covered, and it is said that this is how she had been left. But this contradicts the clear use of the expressions in bed and snuggled down. Lying on top of the bed with only the feet under neatly folded-back bedclothes cannot be described as “snuggled”, nor yet as “in bed”. Normal English usage permits “on top of the bedclothes”.

From Gerry McCann’s statement to police, on 10th May, 2007:
'Concerning the bed where his daughter was on the night she disappeared, he says that she slept uncovered, as usual when it was hot, with the bedclothes folded down'. [4]

But was it hot, as Gerry clearly insists ? The word used is hot, not “warm enough to sleep with only a light cover, or on top of the bedclothes”.

Kate McCann is very clear that outside, the weather was cold.
p. 73 “It was so cold and so windy.” [5]

Jane Tanner is equally insistent
JT: . . . and I just thought that child's not got any shoes on because you could see the feet, and it was quite a cold night in Portugal in May it's not actually that warm, and I'd got a big jumper on, and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up.
Richard Bilton Could you tell . . .?
JT: . . . It was actually quite cold. [6]
and again
“Yeah, and there were some people inside because it was quite chilly by, by this, it was actually quite, quite cold”.
and again
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces,
and again
I’d got Russell’s big jumper on, cropped trousers and flip-flips and, yeah, it was quite, you know, sort of cold”
and again
4078    “. . . at that time, didn’t really think anything of it other than the child might have cold feet?”
Reply    “Yeah, and just”.
and yet again
4078    “So you went on the wrong day.”
Reply    “Yeah, I think err so it wasn’t, that’s one reason why we didn’t open the shutters to open the window or anything in that room, it wasn’t actually really hot at all, it was actually quite cloudy in the days and at night it was actually quite chilly.” [7]

Russell O’Brien : The nights were quite chilly [8]

Matthew Oldfield in the evenings it was very cold, [9]

Rachel Oldfield it was really cold in the evenings [10]

David Payne it was quite cold some nights and you know perhaps nearly too cold to be sat outside [11]

Fiona Payne it was still very cold [12]

Diane Webster when they were brought up to our apartment and they would have to come out into the cold [13]

Only one person in the entire group of 9 adults insists that the weather was hot enough for Madeleine to have been put to bed lying on top of the bedclothes.
Every one of the other eight adults say it was cold, in many cases they lay emphasis on the extra clothing they themselves were wearing.

Only Gerry McCann disagrees.

The weather report for that day is that at 9 pm, 3 May 2007 the temperature recorded at Faro airport was 57º F, 14º C [14]
What reason does Gerry McCann have for insisting it was hot ?
This picture shows a bed which may not have been slept in on the night of 3rd May. [15]

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 9:07

Another thing I find peculiar with the bed story. Is that Maddie had her princess blanket and her cuddlecat, but the twins especially Amilie had only ordinary blankets and no cuddly toys.
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 9:30

dantezebu wrote:Another thing I find peculiar with the bed story. Is that Maddie had her princess blanket and her cuddlecat, but the twins especially Amilie had only ordinary blankets and no cuddly toys.

I know what you mean - she only exists through her toys and clothes. PeterMac, it is possible the apartment was heated, I suppose. Doesn't make the evidence much more credible but one of those things that would need to be eliminated.
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 10:18

I don't believe this bed-time scenario at all.  Attempts to create "happy families" does not work with me; they couldn't wait to dump their children into the creche each day. I wonder if Madeleine was even alive at this time.  The issue of the cots is a puzzle: I recall reading on the Forum that a cleaner reported that the cots were always in the parents room, but on the night of Madeleine's disappearance they were in her room.
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Curioser on 12.12.13 10:45

Thanks Petermac. I remember reading this and it definitely suggests that Madeleine was further into bed than appears possible given the state of the bed.

I just wondered about the messiness that you would expect from all those people sitting and squirming while having their story. Doesn't add up.

Do you know if anyone has thought about Madeleine being in the other bed? I can't really see a reason for lying about it if that was the case, but then, I can't fathom most of the lies...

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Mirage on 12.12.13 10:54

I thought Cuddle Cat had been given as an early 4th birthday present. Not soon after her birth as per page 69 of the bewk. (See PeterMac's post above) Can anyone confirm I haven't dreamt this information?

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 11:00

Mirage wrote [typeface Arial 3 ...]:

. 69 Then we kissed the twins, and kissed Madeleine, already snuggled down with her ‘princess’ blanket and Cuddle Cat – a soft toy she’d been given soon after she was born and never went to bed without. (my bold).


What's this about?  I thought we'd been told Cuddle Cat was given to MM as an early 4th birthday present. Can anyone confirm please?


PS: I suggest to check your comment in "Preview" before sending it. If it comes out wrong, you can go down to "Draft" and change font and typeface before hitting "Send"  winkwink


ETA please disregard. I see that Mirage corrected her comment meanwhile
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by tiny on 12.12.13 11:00

@Mirage wrote:I thought Cuddle Cat had been given as an early 4th birthday present. Not soon after her birth as per page 69 of the bewk. (See PeterMac's post above) Can anyone confirm I haven't dreamt this information?
Im am sure I read that john corner bought it for Madeleine at the airport for Madeleines 4th birthday
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Mirage on 12.12.13 11:09

@tiny wrote:
@Mirage wrote:I thought Cuddle Cat had been given as an early 4th birthday present. Not soon after her birth as per page 69 of the bewk. (See PeterMac's post above) Can anyone confirm I haven't dreamt this information?
Im am sure I read that john corner bought it for Madeleine at the airport for Madeleines 4th birthday

Thanks Tiny. I was pretty sure it came from Jon Corner too. What a pile of lies they tell. Pathological isn't it? They can't seem to stop.

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Mirage on 12.12.13 11:17

Tiny, do you know when Jon Corner is supposed to have bought MM this Cuddle Cat at the airport?  I thought he went out to PdL AFTER  MM had disappeared, which is when he stayed at the villa and filmed.

Did he see them off at East Midlands and buy it then?  If so, one of the most dedicated godfathers I've come across.

Did he travel with them to PdL for the holiday ? Never heard of that happening before.

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 12:35

Their memories of her are through photographs.
And a cuddlecat with cadaverine. And a pink blanket that disappeared.
And a last night-time routine that probably never happened.
And a proud father moment that almost definately didn't happen.
And a tennis lesson that they probably didn't see.
And a trip to the beach and an ice-cream that probably didn't happen.




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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by tigger on 12.12.13 16:39

@Mirage wrote:Tiny, do you know when Jon Corner is supposed to have bought MM this Cuddle Cat at the airport?  I thought he went out to PdL AFTER  MM had disappeared, which is when he stayed at the villa and filmed.

Did he see them off at East Midlands and buy it then?  If so, one of the most dedicated godfathers I've come across.

Did he travel with them to PdL for the holiday ? Never heard of that happening before.

Kate was in telephone contact with Jon Corner on the night of the. 3rd/4th. 21 calls between 2.00 and 7.00 am .
Some sms's could also be to or from him.
Before midday he was distributing photographs to the media in accordance with the US protocol on missing children.
No flies on him, clearly.
Cuddlecat  - new toy imo. So setting up two websites with that name one may suppose they knew there was stock available to sell?
Jon Corner was director of a company called Keekoscene Ltd - I beieve toys.

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 12.12.13 16:52

I remember it being for her fourth birthday present too. The novel is pure sh!te from cover to cover.

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 16:53

IIRC there is a photo of a much younger Maddie with cuddle cat. I cannot seem to find it now.
At least I think its Maddie and not Amelie.
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 16:58

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/bm/15.jpg

This is the one, dantezebu. It may be Cuddle Cat in the picture but, if so, it's surprising that there aren't any others, since supposedly Madeleine was never without it.
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 17:02

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/bm/15.jpg

This is the one, dantezebu. It may be Cuddle Cat in the picture but, if so, it's surprising that there aren't any others, since supposedly Madeleine was never without it.
Thank you. Yes its a pink something anyway.
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 17:09

It's interesting on that photo the colomba is really just a fleck. It doesn't seem to meet the pupil.
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by PeterMac on 12.12.13 17:32

". . .Cuddle Cat – a soft toy she’d been given soon after she was born and never went to bed without. "

from the book.
Make up your own mind whether it is the truth, or just a "version of the truth"

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 17:44

Oh, Peter, there are so many versions of so many things ... That's one of the reasons, we won't let go, isn't it?
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 12.12.13 18:18


Looking for references to Cuddle Cats official age in the McCann files, I came across the two articles where the "high ledge" is mentioned. 










 
Cuddle Cat placed out of reach, 12 August 2007
 
Maddy was alive when taken [color:8670=000000]Sunday Mirror

 

By Lori Campbell in Praia da Luz

Published: 12/08/2007

 

Missing Madeleine McCann's favourite pink Cuddle Cat toy was taken from her arms as she slept and placed beyond her reach by her kidnapper. That is why police are certain Madeleine was snatched while she was asleep - and was NOT killed or injured in the holiday apartment.

 

When her mum Kate, 38, tucked Madeleine into bed, the four-year-old was cuddling the toy - but it was later found placed on a ledge that Madeleine could not have reached.

 

There is also further "concrete evidence" that Madeleine was still ALIVE when she left the holiday apartment. Her kidnapper had a window of just five minutes to strike - from when dad Gerry last checked on the children until family friend Jane Tanner saw a man carrying away a child she is sure was Madeleine wrapped in a blanket. The new revelations rubbish reports in Portuguese newspapers this week that she was murdered or died in an accident inside the villa. And they come as local police Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa ruled Gerry and Kate out of the inquiry - and admitted for the first time Madeleine could be dead.

 

Now, the Sunday Mirror can give a true picture of what happened when Kate found her daughter missing. We can reveal:

 

Police have specific evidence from the apartment that she was still alive

 

Madeleine was kidnapped as the toy she had fallen asleep with was left on a ledge placed too high for a child to reach

 

There was a window of less than five minutes for a kidnapper to pounce - not enough time to kill her and clean up

 

Police do not believe blood found in the apartment was Madeleine's as it was not consistent with signs of a struggle

 

The patio doors were unlocked but the intruder used the window to escape with Madeleine as the shutters were forced up.

 

We can also reveal that devastated Kate was reduced to tears several times by the aggressive questioning of Portuguese police this week. And yesterday the parents were hit by further cruel claims in Portuguese papers linking them to Madeleine's disappearance on May 3.

 

But our dramatic information confirms Madeleine was most likely to have been abducted by a stranger who had watched the family's routine for up to four days.

 

And it shows Portuguese police from the beginning have had firm evidence Madeleine was still alive when she was taken from the ground-floor apartment.

 

The McCanns were told in a secret meeting with police within days of Madeleine going missing what this evidence is. They have been unable to discuss it publicly in case it jeopardises the investigation - and have even been banned from telling close friends or family.

 

Kate has refused to say where she found the Cuddle Cat toy when she returned to the villa in Praia da Luz at about 10pm to find her daughter's bed empty.

 

But she has hinted the bedroom was left in such a way that she knew almost instantly Madeleine had been kidnapped.

 

Our police source said: "When Kate tucked Madeleine up in bed earlier in the evening, she had toy tightly in her arms as she did every night. So Kate was terrified when she spotted it had been left in a place too high for her to reach. Kate also noticed the window was wide opened and the shutters jammed up. It was because of these things that she had no doubt Madeleine had been kidnapped and she ran out to scream for help."

 

The Sunday Mirror has been told there was a window of opportunity of less than five minutes from the last time Gerry checked on their child to the reported sighting by family friend Jane of her being carried away by a man. Our source said: "Although there has been much speculation about a 'lost hour' in which Madeleine could have been taken, it was actually less than five minutes. The kidnapping must have been meticulously planned. Police found no fingerprints or DNA on the Cuddle Cat or in the room, indicating the intruder wore gloves.

 

There was so little time that whoever took Madeleine must have been watching the family closely for several days so they knew exactly when to strike.

 

"Kate and Gerry left Madeleine and the twins Sean and Amelie alone every evening of their week-long holiday to eat dinner 50 yards away and followed the same routine of checking on them. The kidnapper would have known this."

 

The patio doors at the back of the apartment were left unlocked so Kate and Gerry could check on the children easily. But police are unsure if the intruder used them to slip in or if the shutters to the front window were forced open from outside. Our source added: "Whichever way the kidnapper entered, they left by the window because it was left wide open and the shutters were forced up."

 

Sniffer dogs flown over to Portugal last week by British police were taken into the apartment and found specks of blood missed in an initial search.

 

The results of DNA tests are expected this week but detectives are convinced it does not belong to Madeleine because if it was fresh, it would have been spotted when they first scoured the apartment.

 

But that has not stopped the Portuguese media leading a hurtful smear campaign against Kate and Gerry which reached a new low with the suggestion Madeleine was killed inside the apartment and that Kate was somehow involved.

 

The spiteful rumours forced Kate and Gerry to insist they would not be bullied out of Portugal. But yesterday there were more cruel accusations as they marked 100 days since Madeleine disappeared.

 

Portuguese newspaper Sol alleged the toddler died in the apartment before her parents went to dinner. It says British sniffer dogs picked up traces of her corpse and signs she was moved.

 

An "unnamed specialist" told the newspaper: "For the dogs to detect a body, it would have to stay in place where it died for a minimum of two hours."

 

The report also alleged the McCanns' silver Renault Scenic hire car may have been used to get rid of Madeleine's body.

 

A McCann spokesman yesterday dismissed the allegations as "complete nonsense".

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 12.12.13 18:20

 
Daily Mail report 12 August 2007 ([color:c344=000000]original link)
 
Madeleine's favourite 'Cuddle Cat' toy was 'placed out of her reach'
Last updated at 15:54pm on 12th August 2007

 

Madeleine's favourite toy, her pink 'Cuddle Cat, was taken from her arms and placed beyond her reach by her kidnapper, according to new reports.

This important evidence could point to the fact that Madeleine was actually taken alive.
According to a report in the Sunday Mirror, Kate McCann knew instantly that Madeleine had been abducted when she saw that the toy had been moved from her sleeping daughter's arms and placed on a ledge way beyond the four-year-old's reach.
The paper quotes a police source as saying: "When Kate tucked Madeleine up in bed earlier in the evening she had the toy tightly in her arms as she did every night.
"So Kate was terrified when she spotted it had been left in a place too high for her to reach.
"Kate also noticed the window was wide open and the shutters jammed up.
"It was because of these things that she had no doubt Madeleine had been kidnapped and she ran out to scream for help."
There was no sign of DNA or fingerprints left on the toy.

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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Guest on 12.12.13 18:26

@ smokeandmirrors: I'm translating your typeface 3 points text ...

"Looking for references to Cuddle Cats official age in the McCann files, I came across the two articles where the "high ledge" is mentioned. "

There's also a lot of cuddlecat here:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id60.html
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Re: Madeleine's bed? Which one was it? Why was it so neat?

Post by Daisy on 12.12.13 18:29

If I remember right, Lori Cambell (Journalist) was the person responsible for the myth of cuddle cat being placed on a shelf? Is she the author of those articles SmokeandMirrors?

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