Re: Gary Hagland - The ‘mysterious seventh man’ in the McCann Team private investigations

by **PeterMac** 30.06.13 9:12

aiyoyo wrote:
But, .....but....
prior to this revelation by TB, surely TM and C-R knew nothing about TB's source back then?
I bet Kevin is a happy fly on the wall!

They may not have known that TB knew about Hagland, or that he knew what Hagland knew, but they knew the facts, themselves, TM certainly and by implication C-R, unless they were negligent and had not bothered to examine their clients versions of events in any great depth - which is actually quite likely, thinking about it. They may not have wanted to know the full details.
TB is revealing that he knew all along much more about the internal workings of the TM set up than they can ever have imagined.
They thought their circle was tight knit, but now it is proving to have unravelled, and a long time ago at that.
What else did Hagland reveal to TB ?
What has he revealed to Grange ?
TM have lost control. Hence perhaps the deafening silence from CM and the press.

by plebgate 30.06.13 9:30

The letter to BBC re. complaint by Mr. Hagland - IMO mentioningr that he was a founder investigator for Mr. & Mrs. would have told the Powers that Be that all is not as has been disclosed otherwise he would not have written such a strongly worded letter to them imo.

Excellent letter from Mr. Hagland on what was, I believe, a very shoddy piece of reporting. Also IIRC the papers produced a very "scary" looking pic of Ms. Butler the next day or so.

Mr. Hagland certainly seems to have some info. which could upset the apple cart so to speak.

I cannot see how the police would not interview him and want to see any evidence (whatever that may be) that he has.

I am rather optimistic that things are moving behind the scenes and with this info. from Tony, I am of the belief that a whitewash will not occur.

Who knows what documents are held by others and what does Mr. Amaral have in his arsenal re. the upcoming trial? If it goes ahead of course.

by **PeterMac** 30.06.13 9:33

plebgate wrote:. . .
Mr. Hagland certainly seems to have some info. which could upset the apple cart so to speak.
I cannot see how the police would not interview him and want to see any evidence (whatever that may be) that he has.

Agreed. It think it beyond a peradventure that Grange will have spoken to Hagland, or at least tried to speak to him.
I wonder how close were his dealings with the McCanns themselves, or whether he was just dancing to the paymaster's tune ?
Perhaps the answer to that should not appear on the forum !

by aiyoyo 30.06.13 9:39

PeterMac wrote:
plebgate wrote:. . .
Mr. Hagland certainly seems to have some info. which could upset the apple cart so to speak.
I cannot see how the police would not interview him and want to see any evidence (whatever that may be) that he has.
Agreed. It think it beyond a peradventure that Grange will have spoken to Hagland, or at least tried to speak to him.
I wonder how close were his dealings with the McCanns themselves, or whether he was just dancing to the paymaster's tune ?
Perhaps the answer to that should not appear on the forum !

I agree, this type of classified info should be restricted while review is alive.

by Guest 30.06.13 9:41

Question: can police doing an investigative review interview witnesses? Or do they have to wait until it becomes a full investigation and CPS involved?

by plebgate 30.06.13 9:47

If the witness asks to speak to the police, I can see no reason why the police would not take the witness up on their offer.

by aiyoyo 30.06.13 12:30

PeterMac wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
But, .....but....
prior to this revelation by TB, surely TM and C-R knew nothing about TB's source back then?
I bet Kevin is a happy fly on the wall!
They may not have known that TB knew about Hagland, or that he knew what Hagland knew, but they knew the facts, themselves, TM certainly and by implication C-R, unless they were negligent and had not bothered to examine their clients versions of events in any great depth - which is actually quite likely, thinking about it. They may not have wanted to know the full details.
TB is revealing that he knew all along much more about the internal workings of the TM set up than they can ever have imagined.
They thought their circle was tight knit, but now it is proving to have unravelled, and a long time ago at that.
What else did Hagland reveal to TB ?
What has he revealed to Grange ?
TM have lost control. Hence perhaps the deafening silence from CM and the press.

When TB posted up their knutsford PI headquarter a while back they must have suspected it came from their inner circle, yet that didnt stop them gagging him despite future ramifications.

If Hagland had revealed all to Grange one would have thought Redwood would counsel TB to keep this watertight for prosecution purpose for obvious reason.
That is if they'e working on a prosecution. It does leave one wondering what the MET are up despite the CPS clandestine visit.

by ShuBob 30.06.13 12:57

One wonders who else Hagland has contacted. Amaral?

by Woofer 30.06.13 13:33

Aiyoyo wrote "
If Hagland had revealed all to Grange one would have thought Redwood would counsel TB to keep this watertight for prosecution purpose for obvious reason.
That is if they'e working on a prosecution. It does leave one wondering what the MET are up despite the CPS clandestine visit."

Exactly.

It seems to me they`re not interested in Hagland and that would raise the question WHY NOT.

by ShuBob 30.06.13 13:40

Woofer wrote:Aiyoyo wrote "
If Hagland had revealed all to Grange one would have thought Redwood would counsel TB to keep this watertight for prosecution purpose for obvious reason.
That is if they'e working on a prosecution. It does leave one wondering what the MET are up despite the CPS clandestine visit."

Exactly.

It seems to me they`re not interested in Hagland and that would raise the question WHY NOT.

On the contrary. SY are not obliged to tell members of the public what they can and can't reveal prior to charges being brought. Otherwise, I suspect there'll be more claims of cover-up. Why would anyone really expect them to respond to TB's message any other way without giving away information which they've so far kept secret? How would they know TB is not on a fishing expenditure?

by **PeterMac** 30.06.13 14:54

ShuBob wrote: How would they know TB is not on a fishing expenditure?

TB as a clandestine member of TM ?
Now there's a thought !
That really WOULD make a good conspiracy theory.
It has all the elements, a sacrificial stooge / patsy, willing to be punished - but only in a symbolic way, costs reduced at the last minute by 98%,

I think a fully paid up Lizard should have a go at this one.
If we can work Opus Dei into it as well we may have a film script

by Guest 30.06.13 15:03

Calling Dan Brown, calling Dan Brown - have you got the time to come up with a new novel based on the case, to include Peter's last post - to be made into a film later. Perhaps we can have Derren Brown to lend a hand with a bit of hocus pocus too.

by **PeterMac** 30.06.13 18:02

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Calling Dan Brown, calling Dan Brown - have you got the time to come up with a new novel based on the case, to include Peter's last post - to be made into a film later. Perhaps we can have Derren Brown to lend a hand with a bit of hocus pocus too.

We have all the necessary magic numbers - 7 Tapasniks, 3 children,
Masonic wailings
Trainers that light up automatically
Visitations during the night by the dead child (or not - depending which version of the truth you accept !)
Visits to Shrines
Visit to Rome
Blessed by the Pope
Vatican web site

Why didn't we think of this before. It is a huge screenplay waiting for Jon Corner to film it.

by Guest 30.06.13 18:26

Peter! Puke ...! Don't do this to me whilst I'm preparing dinner ...

by Lance De Boils 30.06.13 18:59

Oh yes, and Gerry's epiphany, "the light at the end of the tunnel", the "coded" blogs....

by loopzdaloop 30.06.13 19:44

Tony Bennett wrote:On the evening of 14 August 2009, Gary Hagland wrote a letter of complaint to BBC TV East Midlands, on behalf of the then Chairman of The Madeleine Foundation, Debbie Butler.

Two days earlier, a leaflet about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann had been circulated in different parts of Leicestershire, including some in Rothley. Earlier that evening, BBC TV East Midlands had transmitted their interview of Ms Butler, about what became known as 'The Rothley Leaflet Drop'.

Gary Hagland kindly copied the letter to me, and did not stipulate that it was sent in confidence.

Here, with absolutely no editing, is the letter he sent:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To: The Editor,
BBC TV East Midlands

14 August 2009

Sir,

During your East Midlands Today broadcast of 6:30pm Friday 14th August 2009, the show’s anchor, Anne Davies , presented an item on the activities of The Madeleine Foundation (‘TMF’). The item covered the recent, lawful, activity of TMF in distributing a leaflet in, amongst other locales, the Rothley Village area of Leicestershire, the content of which, inter alia, relates to the urging for a re-opening of the formal enquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann.

Ms Davies opted to interrogate, as opposed to interview, the on-camera TMF representative, and Ms Davies presented such a biased and subjective ‘report’ on this event as to relegate journalism to the sewers.

I strongly object to the gross lack of professional performance of Ms Davies in this matter, and I earnestly recommend that, in light of her plastic reporting, she revert to her founding secretarial crammer course as a more viable, certainly more honest, career path.

The issue of the loss of Madeleine Beth McCann as a phenomenon itself is so vast and amorphous that no crisp and perspicuous analysis of its concept, let alone the event proper, can avoid being procrustean. Nonetheless, it should be possible to say something helpful, even though it is not likely to be decisive. Even the most basic and preliminary questions about this matter remain, after all, not only unanswered but also unasked. I should know.

As a journalist, Ms Davies failed, miserably so, to professionally exploit the opportunity presented by the activity of TMF and to present a balanced account of events to-date and, indeed, the legitimate realm of alternative approaches as represented by TMF, however unpalatable to some such may be (though unlikely Madeleine herself).

What I do know is that organisations such as TMF, and their related acts, have a proper and rightful place in society’s search for the truth as to Madeleine ’s situation. This child was: (1) betrayed by her parents; (2) let down by a retarded EU host state; and now (3) dealt further injustice by the likes of the stance of Ms Davies and your public broadcast organisation. As a viewer, licence fee payer, and founder-investigator for Gerry and Kate McCann from September 2007 to April 2008, I find such reporting abhorrent, puerile, and reprehensible.

The contemporary proliferation of this sort of reporting also has deeper sources, in various forms of scepticism that deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality, and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are. These “antirealists”, like Ms Davies, pander to doctrines which undermine confidence in the value of disinterested efforts to determine what is true and what is false, and even in the intelligibility of the notion of objective inquiry.

One response to this loss of confidence has been a retreat from the discipline required by journalistic dedication to the ideal of correctness to a quite different sort of discipline, which is imposed by a pursuit of an alternative ideal of sincerity. Rather than seeking primarily to arrive at accurate representations of a common world, the individual turns toward trying to provide an honest representation of herself. Convinced that reality has no inherent nature, which she might hope to identify as the truth about things, she devotes herself to being true to her own nature. It is as though Ms Davies decides that since it makes no sense to try to be true to the facts, she must therefore try instead to be true to herself and her employer: In colloquial parlance, I believe the descriptive word is humbug - as in humbug reporting.

I expect higher standards of and from the BBC, entrenched dumbed down cheap and simplistic regional reporting or not. It seems all Ms Davies has perfected in her career to-date is, and I quote her “...the art of carrying a tray of teas and coffees, all the newspapers and a great pile of tapes - at the same time”.

God help us.

Faithfully,

Gary Hagland, MBA, Dip.Comp.Stud. (Exon), FSI

E-mail (withheld by TB)

Someone asked what Gary Hagland's motivation is.

Its a really good question - what is Gary Hagland's motivation?

We know that:

A> He used to be an 'insider' between the dates September 2007 to March 2008,
B> He is writing a book that he is trying to get published
C> He used to be a member of MM fora
D> He started to leak info to Tony Bennett (April 2009) who has compiled a dossier.
E> He wrote the above letter in August 2009.

We are not sure why in A> that he left the Mccann's cause.

However, through the actions of D> and E> we can suggest Gary has had a complete reversal of perspective through working with the Mccann's case.

If Gary was reading this today, with reference to the quoted letter It might be asked

i) what are the most basic and preliminary questions about this matter remain that should be answered and asked?
ii) With reference to the above how should 'you know?' in what way?
iii) What motivated you to wrote that letter to the BBC complaining about the treatment of TMF?
iv) In what way does he feel that M was 'betrayed' by her parents and what led him to that conclusion?
v) For him to tell is more about the further injustice by the 'likes' of the stance of the BBC?

With regards to iv and v, we know the answers to those questions but Gary Haglands reasoning would be intersting.

My next questions would be:

1) Why has this mysterious blog poster released this information upon Gary Hagland now?
2) Why has this brand new poster taken the information from this mysterious blog poster and put it on this site?
3) How did this new poster find/search for this information about Gary Hagland?

Gary Hagland, by virtue of this topic and the nature of this thread is pretty much unknown.
There can be very few people who would have been 'searching' for Gary Hagland.

The only possible conclusion to this is with regards to what we know B> that Gary Hagland is trying to publish a book.
For the book to be successful, he would need publicity. He would need to become a 'known', and what better way of announcing his intentions through making himself known through fora such as this, the members of which are likely to be interested in his book.

With relation to what we know, C>, he USED to be a member of fora, we all know old habits die hard. Tony Bennett has told him of his plan to release some of the information upon this particular forum and if I was Gary Hagland, I would interested to know what is being released. Which means that Gary Hagland is reading this right now.... In which case... he can tell us what he knows.

What are your motivations?
When did your perceptions of them change?
Tell us more about the behind the scenes organisation of things!

I'm 100% you're reading this right now, you clearly want to discuss things.
Go for it....

by deafoldbat 30.06.13 20:18

Now someone has put a link to this page on Twitter a lot more people will be asking questions!

by **Tony Bennett** 30.06.13 20:39

Very interesting points, loopzdaloop.

If we examine what is now known about Gary Hagland, he can hardly be described as a publcity-shy shrinking violet.

If we go back to the article about him in the Financial Times magazine (2001), it is clear that the article is very much focussed around him and his role as a consultant for law firm Wragge and Co.

In the central body of the article, we read this:

"Gary Hagland is a consultant with law firm Wragge & Co advising clients on the active management of compliance risks, including money laundering.

He works with the Institute of Directors' board consultancy department on the 'Compliant Board' initiative that aims to guide company directors through the labyrinth of regulations and procedure that successful compliance demands. Mr Hagland paints a broad picture of the type of non-financial services businesses that may well be targets for the money launderer. These include auction houses, expensive car dealerships, property agents and developers - indeed any business that is used to handling high-value assets.

According to Mr Hagland, a problem for companies in complying with anti-money laundering initiatives is that their prevailing culture and ethos does not lend itself readily to accommodate scepticism about prospective customers. Rather, the opposite is likely to be the case. "To tackle the possible threat of being unwitting accomplices to a money laundering scheme, the challenge for non-financial businesses is to change their mindset, their core attitudes. The reputational focus of most businesses is clearly not on money laundering," says Mr Hagland".

The article begins with the two words: 'Gary Hagland'. It features his work. It quotes him in person. It almost suggests that he may have approached the FT and invited them to write about him.

Another major clue comes from the article in the Nottingham Post about him, dated 15 March 2010 - nine years after the FT article.

Consider these points:

* A 'neighbour' was hospitalised due to stress from the all-night antics of nearby Nottingham Trent University...
* But it is Hagland who makes representations to the University...
* It is Hagland who approaches the Nottingham Post and makes a series of comments, and...
* He is perfectly happy to be photographed.

Next, consider his actions in relation to his 7-month stint with the McCann Team.

He...

* Keeps notes and diaries of his time with the McCann Team
* He twice discussed his experiences inside the McCann Team with journalists from The Times, who visited him at home
* He shared a great deal of information with me when he 'phoned me in April 2009
* He was happy to go on the record - name, qualifications, e-mail address etc. - and to openly dicclose that he was a former McCann Team insider to the editor of BBC TV East Midlands
* He was happy to send me a copy of that e-mail with no confidentiality restriction
* He has sent me various extracts from his book, again with no confidentiality restrictions, and
* He has since given me further details, over the 'phone, about his actions within the McCann Team investigations.

It seems unlikely now, over 5 years after he left the McCann Team (he resigned), that he will have any useful information about the whereabouts of Madeleine McCann.

But he seems the kind of man who wants to talk about what he is doing, and he clearly believes, in writing a book about his experiences in the McCann Team, that he has an interesting, and maybe marketable, story to tell the world.

by ShuBob 30.06.13 20:55

With the McCanns' heavyweight legal team, I'll be surprised if they didn't get Hagland to sign a confidentiality agreement. Having said that, I kinda hope they didn't.

by DIBarlow 30.06.13 20:57

Presumably though, from information that TB received from Hagland, he has information that might be counter-productive for TM?

Presumably too, TM might have a court restriction on him?

Understandably this might be information that should not be aired in advance of any developments in the case?

by **Tony Bennett** 30.06.13 21:11

DIBarlow wrote:Presumably though, from information that TB received from Hagland, he has information that might be counter-productive for TM?

Presumably too, TM might have a court restriction on him?

Understandably this might be information that should not be aired in advance of any developments in the case?

According to Gary Hagland, he has shown at least a synopsis of his book to several publishers. I doubt he could have done that if he had had to sign a watertight confidentiality agreement before working for the McCann Team.

Also, by the sound ot it, after Metodo 3 folded and sacked most of its staff earlier this year, some Metodo 3 staff were 'singing' to the authorities about what really went on in the McCann Team investigation - there were even some reported quotes, which I won't repeat here. They were generally slagging off their former Metodo 3 bosses, as some people tend to do when thrown out of work without warning - especially in today's Spain with 20% unemployment.

As Hagland actually visited Metodo 3's offices in Barcelona and discussed the Madeleine McCann case with Metodo 3 staff in Brian Kennedy's Knutford investigation HQ as well, most probably he knows many of these now-disgruntled ex-Metodo 3 men?

by Harriet94 30.06.13 21:27

This is probably not appropriate to post here, but years ago. a newspaper , the daily telegraph, I think featured an article about thr McCanns new detectives not being up to the job. Oakly international ? The newspaper then reported a retraction and an apology and paid out damages to the people involved.

by **Tony Bennett** 30.06.13 21:31

Harriet94 wrote:This is probably not appropriate to post here, but years ago. a newspaper , the daily telegraph, I think featured an article about thr McCanns new detectives not being up to the job. Oakly international ? The newspaper then reported a retraction and an apology and paid out damages to the people involved.

That was the Sunday Express apologising on 24 February 2008 for disparaging remarks they had made on 13 January about Noel Hogan (see separate thread on this site). Yes, they paid him damages and his legal costs.

by Cristobell 30.06.13 21:40

littlepixie wrote:Wow, I only just understood all those big words, he seems "well brainy" as they say around here

Reminds me of how the poster Tripz used to write from the old 3A forum.

So he was on the side of the truth being told about Madeleines' disappearance.

by Harriet94 30.06.13 21:56

Yes sorry, I will research further ,but perhaps some people will not separate out the Hogans from the Haglands and the Halligens

Gary Hagland - The ‘mysterious seventh man’ in the McCann Team private investigations