The Tapas Children

by jd 15.09.12 15:00

Its often occurred to me, did Maddie ever see the other tapas kids?

We know she went to creche with Ella but this is highly suspicious in itself. What about the Paynes kids and the Oldfields kids? Did she ever see them, after all they were there all together on holiday

From the statements, the mccanns only seemed to have breakfast with everyone once on the first morning (when Maddie was alive). Most breakfasts and lunches the mccanns seemed to have by themselves. Maddie seemed to get up, have breakfast with her parents, went to creche, lunch with her parents, back to creche, then back to the apartment to wash and bed.....so did she ever see the other Tapas kids?

The paynes and oldfields kids all seemed to be asleep after lunchtimes, which I personally find strange. Its all so very weird imo.

This would only make sense if Maddie met her fate early on the holiday. The adults seem to have seen each other at various times during the day (tennis courts etc) and of course at night, but when did their kids see each other?

by Genbug 15.09.12 15:05

Hi JD, Ella was the same age as Madeleine which is why they would have gone to creche together. The other kids would have been in a different group as they were younger.

Why do you find it strange that the other kids had an afternoon nap? Quite a normal thing for small children to do!

by **tigger** 15.09.12 17:43

What is far more to the point: if everything had been 'normal' the twins in one creche, Maddie and Ella in the Lobsters - and if the abduction story was true, why is there virtually no trace of any holiday activity in 5a? No toys, no soft toys belonging to the twins. Just a brand-new looking cuddlecat. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was registered on the 26th May 2007 - 23 days after Madeleine's disappearance - by the mcCanns, one of the more tasteless ventures in fund raising imo).

Did the children not come back with treasures they made at the creche?
As I recall, there was making a dragon or something, they'd have been drawing and painting, all items that must be shown proudly to the parents. It's what children do, it's what the creche is for.

Most parents would do what they do at home, stick the new works of art up with blue tack, display the superb 'sculpture' on the table or somewhere.
Not one. Not one 'last drawing' done by Maddie to be photographed. Had there been any, I'm sure the PR machine would have pounced on them.

by Genbug 15.09.12 22:35

That's right Tigger, according to the Lobster's activity chart there was postcard making, spaceship collage, happy handprint stars, saltdough rockets, funky footprint aliens, chalk space pictures (bit of a space theme going on here...!) - why have we never seen any of these things?

by jd 16.09.12 1:02

Genbug wrote:Hi JD, Ella was the same age as Madeleine which is why they would have gone to creche together. The other kids would have been in a different group as they were younger.

Why do you find it strange that the other kids had an afternoon nap? Quite a normal thing for small children to do!

According to their statements it seems to be a normal routine that they slept in the afternoons. I can probably understand one day perhaps, but every day or nearly every day is very strange. I'd have thought on a friends group holiday that a big part would be for all their kids to play and entertain themselves together, but it seems they hardly saw each other. They did for the first 2 days then it seems to have changed drastically since the afternoon of April 30th

Maddie & Twins: wake up, breakfast with parents, creche, lunch with parents, creche, meal at creche, wash and bed

payne & oldfield kids: wake up, breakfast with parents, creche, lunch with parents, sleep, tea, wash and bed again

The payne and oldfield kids only seemed to be awake in the mornings till lunch and to eat tea get washed and back to bed again, though I think they went to the beach once or twice after their afternoon nap. Its so weird to me and doesn't seem normal

But I do think there is an element of truth because it would make sense to try and keep the kids away as much as possible (pre May 3rd) so they wouldn't notice Maddie had disappeared

by sami 16.09.12 10:29

My experience of travelling with children of similar ages and another family with children would be that it is relatively normal to get the children to have a quick nap during the day. This reduces the possibility of early evening tantrums because of tiredness and will prolong the evening time to allow for a family meal. But this group did not want the evening prolonged for the children, so it seems odd in this particular instance. If I required my children to be asleep like robots every evening at 7.30 I would not allow them to sleep in the afternoon.

Whilst the children were all relatively close in age on that holiday, socially Madeleine and the Paynes daughter (Ella ?) would have been more advanced than the little ones. If I put myself into that situation what was usual was that whilst the smaller babies were being readied for bed, the older ones would want to go and play, have some fun without the "babies" around. I find it odd that the two older girls were not brought say to the playground by one adult for even just a short time each evening. They could play there and socialise with each other. Madeleine was four really, and would have enjoyed being singled out as the "big girl" in the family, doing something with the other big girl. That is the sad part of this story, no fuss was ever made of Madeleine. No "big girl" treats.

I asked the same question when I first saw the photos of 5a way back. Where is the "stuff". There is nothing to show a fun time. A single beach bucket sitting outside the front door of 5a in the police photos. Terribly sad.

But I suppose, again, this all goes back to the same thing. This was not a family holiday, it was not a group on holiday who hoped the children would be company for each other. They did not need the other kids, they had the creche. Why they were there at all is a mystery.

by Nina 16.09.12 11:34

Yes no evidence of children in 5A. To say there were three children supposed to be staying in that folorn apartment and each child spending all day at a creche and no where in sight a picture or a model for me is just posing questions as to what exactly the children were doing at the creche, or were they ever in 5A.
Is Kate a poster of childish pictures on the Rothley kitchen walls type of person? Or, would they spoil the perfect decor of her designer kitchen?

by **tigger** 16.09.12 11:56

Nina wrote:Yes no evidence of children in 5A. To say there were three children supposed to be staying in that folorn apartment and each child spending all day at a creche and no where in sight a picture or a model for me is just posing questions as to what exactly the children were doing at the creche, or were they ever in 5A.
Is Kate a poster of childish pictures on the Rothley kitchen walls type of person? Or, would they spoil the perfect decor of her designer kitchen?

Yes, there were one or two drawings up in the kitchen - in a short clip on youtube where Kate really seems to be losing it. She says that the drawing was done before or in Donegal. But just two drawings, and my suspicion is that that may have been for the benefit of the journalist. By then they'd had lots of advice on these matters.

by Ribisl 16.09.12 12:10

jd wrote:Its often occurred to me, did Maddie ever see the other tapas kids?

We know she went to creche with Ella but this is highly suspicious in itself. What about the Paynes kids and the Oldfields kids? Did she ever see them, after all they were there all together on holiday

From the statements, the mccanns only seemed to have breakfast with everyone once on the first morning (when Maddie was alive). Most breakfasts and lunches the mccanns seemed to have by themselves. Maddie seemed to get up, have breakfast with her parents, went to creche, lunch with her parents, back to creche, then back to the apartment to wash and bed.....so did she ever see the other Tapas kids?

The paynes and oldfields kids all seemed to be asleep after lunchtimes, which I personally find strange. Its all so very weird imo.

This would only make sense if Maddie met her fate early on the holiday. The adults seem to have seen each other at various times during the day (tennis courts etc) and of course at night, but when did their kids see each other?

Apart from those pictures from the first day when Madeleine was holding hands with Lily boarding a plane, then later in the playground also with Lily and Sean, we have seen nothing but doctored images of her. Even though Madeleine and Ella were closer in age, she was probably more familiar with Lily because their parents were closer. The other children were perhaps too young to play with each other in a group?

by Guest 16.09.12 12:32

This is the clip to which Tigger refers about Madeleine's drawings.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From about 0.50 for those who can't stand to hear and see too much of Kate.

by **tigger** 16.09.12 12:47

Jean wrote:This is the clip to which Tigger refers about Madeleine's drawings.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From about 0.50 for those who can't stand to hear and see too much of Kate.

Thanks, you are a marvel finding these. But it's weird what she says again: ' she was just really good company - just a really good friend - it's a couple of years since I've seen her - she's got bags of personality - '
That's not describing your 4 year old child.
Looking at the drawings, she only points out one very primitive one, to the right of that is a much more detailed and advanced drawing with people, which she doesn't point out.
She also doesn't describe what's depicted and just points at the evidence: Look! its says Madeleine,,,april 2007 Donegal....

Hmmmm.

by kimHager 10.02.14 14:25

yeah would make sense my 4 yr old daughter makes a new friend and asks repeatedly for them to play..so yeah if maddy was gone early in the holiday you sure wouldnt want one of the kids asking for her..so they kept them seperate and IMO served well when they needed a stand in or deversion..one lil girl looks like many lil girls...so sad.

by comperedna 10.02.14 16:20

Oh my... I hadn't seem that clip before, and it made me very sad... for all of them... especially for Madeleine, and especially when I was watching the bit where she is with the twins singing: 'If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands'... and they do. Whatever it was that happened to her, it is, and ever will be, as Gerry Mccann said on the phone to relatives from day one... 'a disaster'. It doesn't mean all the rest of what I think doesn't stand.

by canada12 10.02.14 18:28

One reason for lack of toys etc in 5A may have been because Madeleine's DNA would have been on them. And it seemed to be important not to have any of her DNA available for the police. So all the toys and any activity projects could have been whooshed because there was no way to tell which toys she might have touched and which ones she didn't. Just my opinion.

by worriedmum 10.02.14 18:56

tigger wrote:
Jean wrote:This is the clip to which Tigger refers about Madeleine's drawings.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From about 0.50 for those who can't stand to hear and see too much of Kate.

Thanks, you are a marvel finding these. But it's weird what she says again: ' she was just really good company - just a really good friend - it's a couple of years since I've seen her - she's got bags of personality - '
That's not describing your 4 year old child.
Looking at the drawings, she only points out one very primitive one, to the right of that is a much more detailed and advanced drawing with people, which she doesn't point out.
She also doesn't describe what's depicted and just points at the evidence: Look! its says Madeleine,,,april 2007 Donegal....

Hmmmm.

How odd! Just looked at the clip at about 1.07, and Kate describes some colouring -in as 'the most emotional one'-it is dated 'Easter 2007' Donegal--when right next to it is the 'people' drawing, I would have thought by Madeleine, which is entitled 'Our Family in---''. That would upset me .
Why would you write the date including the year on a drawing your own child has done?

by tiny 10.02.14 19:03

worriedmum wrote:
tigger wrote:
Jean wrote:This is the clip to which Tigger refers about Madeleine's drawings.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From about 0.50 for those who can't stand to hear and see too much of Kate.

Thanks, you are a marvel finding these. But it's weird what she says again: ' she was just really good company - just a really good friend - it's a couple of years since I've seen her - she's got bags of personality - '
That's not describing your 4 year old child.
Looking at the drawings, she only points out one very primitive one, to the right of that is a much more detailed and advanced drawing with people, which she doesn't point out.
She also doesn't describe what's depicted and just points at the evidence: Look! its says Madeleine,,,april 2007 Donegal....

Hmmmm.
How odd! Just looked at the clip at about 1.07, and Kate describes some colouring -in as 'the most emotional one'-it is dated 'Easter 2007' Donegal--when right next to it is the 'people' drawing, I would have thought by Madeleine, which is entitled 'Our Family in---''. That would upset me .
Why would you write the date including the year on a drawing your own child has done?

All done for show or so kate would remember.

by petunia 10.02.14 19:35

Somebody once pointed out (don't know if it was this forum) some years ago that the pictures on the fridge would have faded with the sun..From 2007 to when the mockumentary was filmed.

by Guest 10.02.14 21:38

Looking at the train drawing ... anyone able to convince me that's a drawing by a 3-4 year-old ... ???!!!

by **sharonl** 10.02.14 23:36

jd wrote:Its often occurred to me, did Maddie ever see the other tapas kids?

We know she went to creche with Ella but this is highly suspicious in itself. What about the Paynes kids and the Oldfields kids? Did she ever see them, after all they were there all together on holiday

From the statements, the mccanns only seemed to have breakfast with everyone once on the first morning (when Maddie was alive). Most breakfasts and lunches the mccanns seemed to have by themselves. Maddie seemed to get up, have breakfast with her parents, went to creche, lunch with her parents, back to creche, then back to the apartment to wash and bed.....so did she ever see the other Tapas kids?

The paynes and oldfields kids all seemed to be asleep after lunchtimes, which I personally find strange. Its all so very weird imo.

This would only make sense if Maddie met her fate early on the holiday. The adults seem to have seen each other at various times during the day (tennis courts etc) and of course at night, but when did their kids see each other?

I read somewhere that the McCanns were having lunch in their apartment whilst their 7 friends and their children ate on the Paynes' balcony. If this is correct, I find it very odd.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 10.02.14 23:52

worriedmum wrote:
Why would you write the date including the year on a drawing your own child has done?

I do that all the time. It means I can look back at them in years to come and see what my kids did at a particular age.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 10.02.14 23:55

Châtelaine wrote:Looking at the train drawing ... anyone able to convince me that's a drawing by a 3-4 year-old ... ???!!!

It just looks like an adult has drawn the outlines and a child has coloured it in. Which is another thing that I've done a lot of as a parent :)

ETA - but on reflection, it may just be a picture that Kate has drawn and put on the wall for the purposes of the video. Another example of Kate having no idea about the abilities of a 3-4 year old, same as the Harry Potter and Doctor Who rubbish.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 11.02.14 0:03

petunia wrote:Somebody once pointed out (don't know if it was this forum) some years ago that the pictures on the fridge would have faded with the sun..From 2007 to when the mockumentary was filmed.

Unlikely. I've got pictures that my kids did that are over ten years old, and they look the same as on the day they made them. I'm a bit of an artist, and I've got felt pen pictures that are about twenty-five years old that look as good as new.

by **sharonl** 11.02.14 0:18

The writing on some of these pictures is very good for a pre-school child

Why are only Madeleines pictures on display? There are three children in the house and kids of all ages like to draw.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 11.02.14 0:29

sharonl wrote:The writing on some of these pictures is very good for a pre-school child

Why are only Madeleines pictures on display? There are three children in the house and kids of all ages like to draw.

Kate probably put those pictures on the wall for the camera. I'm failing to see what's suspicious about these pictures, I must admit :)

by worriedmum 11.02.14 8:10

I think the train picture is colouring-in of an outline taken from a book. Compare the style to the 'family' drawing. That's why I would find the 'family' drawing more emotional...