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coincidences and the car hire.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by HelenMeg on 08.04.14 9:46

@j.rob wrote:
@tigger wrote:I pulled this up because someone was wondering (on another car topic) on the mileage.
p. 272 "The meticulous record of events in my journals enabled us to account for every journey we made in the Renault Scenic, taking us to within a few kilometres of the much-publicized ‘unexplained mystery mileage of the McCanns’ hire car’ which, of course, was not a mystery at all.
Unquote

I am stunned that KH exhibit 1 had this snippet in it.

Besides, I've not seen any mileage recorded in her diary, so what is the woman talking about?

Certainly a big red arrow pointing to a very sensitive subject.

So pre the the writing of the book, the mileage must have been discussed seriously enough to warrant this disclaimer.
Can't recall reading in the diary:  had some chocolate, Gerry contacted Elton John, walked to the supermarket for a bottle of New Zealand white and had a few glasses.  Mileage today: 4534.....or as the case may be: trip meter..
Or each time the car was used, by whoever did, For Kate was never a listed driver.
Adding up all those trips? Over more than three months?

The car has the answer, it seems.

Eta: who on earth bothers to record the daily or weekly mileage?  thinking
 Yes, the car has to be an important clue. The sniffer dog alerts, the open boot, the smell. the trips to the dump, the fridge (are there any records of that alleged blog from Gerry about taking a fridge/freezer to the dump?) and as you say, Kate helpfully writes that she 'meticulously' recorded events in her journal, which enabled her to account for every journey made in the Renault Scenic.

It is beyond extraordinary that the two people who were/are the most likely suspects were busily driving around in the weeks and months after their daughter's disappearance, presumably getting rid of any incriminating evidence, imo.

I am still wondering, though, whether Gerry and Kate were on quite the same page in all of the goings-on. Her comments on page 276 about her fears that Madeleine had fallen into the hands of a paedophile. 'When she was first stolen, paedophiles were all we could think about, and it made us sick, ate away at us.'

"Tortured as I was by these nauseating images, it's probably not surprising that even the thought of sex repulsed me."

These passages then lead on, unfortunately, to Kate worrying about her and Gerry's sex life (page 276) . Why on earth she chose to include any of this is bewildering. Many things are best left unsaid. For all sorts of reasons.

However, she writes: "I worried about Gerry and me. I worried that if I couldn't get our sex life back on track our whole relationship would break down."

And what then, what would happen if their whole relationship broke down? 

There would be a break in the chain. Something might give presumably.

It's as though Kate has to believe in Gerry. "Deep down I knew there were only two solutions: bringing Madeleine back or conquering my mental block. Since the first was not within my control, it was up to me to try to train my mind and my thought processes. So this is what I applied myself to doing."

Of course, there would have been another solution or even several other solutions to , but, for whatever reason, Kate does not want to 'go there'. 

I wonder why not? It is as if her very life depends on "staying together" and "staying strong for our family."

I find these passages quite revealing. Although they also disturb me.
I think the pages are revealing or potentially revealing too - but for a different reason. Anything Kate wrote in this book had a purpose - it wasn't written from the heart -everything was designed to make the 'reader' think what Kate and Gerry wanted them to think. She is writing this book knowing exactly what happened to Madeleine and how she disappeared. However she wants us to think that M was abducted and that she is distrauight not knowing what happened to her. The book was a tool - a case for their defense - so I have to disagree with you - nothing in it is 'real' - it all has a purpose.  Every sentence will have been scrutinized by her and Gerry to make sure it 'hides the truth.'

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by kimHager on 08.04.14 13:58

Not to go off topic but the bewk where Kate yaks about her sex life or lack of one..... Now bigger red flag... Why would sex with your partner make you sick? That is a natural way of comforting your spouse in times of emotional duress. Unless there's that elephant in the mccanns bedroom as well.... The theory I've had for a minute but not wanting to go there. Kate would only be put off by GM if he was guilty of something imo...Hmmm...

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Guest on 08.04.14 15:07

@kimHager wrote: [...] The theory I've had for a minute but not wanting to go there. Kate would only be put off by GM if he was guilty of something imo...Hmmm...
***
Or Kate being guilty of something and Gerry knew that. It's a acceptable theory, but it works in both direction IMO
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Phoebe on 22.05.17 23:22

Out of curiosity does anyone know who paid for the initial hire of the Renault Scenic? I ask because Sandy Cameron stated that "On the 27th May 2007 Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex". The way he says this makes it sound like a gift from M.W. He makes no mention that he, Cameron, was already in possession of a car which he had hired. He explains that his name was on the lease for the Scenic as it was he who, at Gerry's request, met with the hire company representative and also, so that he would be permitted to be a named driver. Therefore I don't understand what he means by Gerry being "handed a car". Gerry wasn't even there. I hadn't realized the McCs had access to a rental car before the Scenic. Was the car Cameron rented ever examined?
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Verdi on 23.05.17 1:13

@Phoebe wrote:Out of curiosity does anyone know who paid for the initial hire of the Renault Scenic? I ask because Sandy Cameron stated that "On the 27th May 2007 Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex". The way he says this makes it sound like a gift from M.W. He makes no mention that he, Cameron, was already in possession of a car which he had hired. He explains that his name was on the lease for the Scenic as it was he who, at Gerry's request, met with the hire company representative and also, so that he would be permitted to be a named driver. Therefore I don't understand what he means by Gerry being "handed a car". Gerry wasn't even there. I hadn't realized the McCs had access to a rental car before the Scenic. Was the car Cameron rented ever examined?
I don't believe there is any reason to think that Mark Warner arranged for the hire of the Renault Scenic for the McCanns - as far as I'm aware the car was delivered by Budget Car and Van Rental, to the client Gerry McCann on 27th May 2007 at the Ocean Club as per the rental contract..


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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Phoebe on 23.05.17 2:28

I find it odd that Cameron claims he signed for the car, which, he states, was "handed to Gerry in the Mark Warner tourist complex" so that he, Sandy would be able to drive it as a named driver. From the records in the files (thanks Verdi) it is Michael Wright who is thus named, no mention of Sandy. The records also indicate the car was picked up or taken "out" in Lagos, not Luz.  Some lines have been redacted immediately beneath Gerry's details and again below the blue "Car and Van Rental". I wonder why? There's nothing particularly sensitive about hiring a car and their home address was common knowledge by then so I doubt it's this.  Linda McQueen mentions Sandy having had a rental car before the Scenic. I hadn't realized this and wonder why he never mentioned this in his statement.
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by sar on 23.05.17 13:52

@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:If you look a little closer, you'll see - as I mentioned before - that obviously mileage wasn't taken between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007. In fact there was just ONE kilometer added on 02-08-2007 and one on 01-09-2007.
So we only know, the mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007 totaled 8579 kilometers, but it's not possible to know exactly in which period this happened and in which portions. It IS a lot of kilometers, though, in some 2,5 months ...

FYI the distance between PdL and Rothley is 2499 km ;-)

Here is an interesting article from  September 2007 where it is alleged that the McCanns were given another car but the same numberplate.

Certainly two separate cars would make more sense in terms of the km reading of the last three weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482815/Madeleines-parents-British-police-bugging-phone-calls-emails.html#ixzz2KdCnTXSy
makes for very interesting reading! thanks tigger

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Verdi on 23.05.17 16:50

@Phoebe wrote:I find it odd that Cameron claims he signed for the car, which, he states, was "handed to Gerry in the Mark Warner tourist complex" so that he, Sandy would be able to drive it as a named driver. From the records in the files (thanks Verdi) it is Michael Wright who is thus named, no mention of Sandy. The records also indicate the car was picked up or taken "out" in Lagos, not Luz.  Some lines have been redacted immediately beneath Gerry's details and again below the blue "Car and Van Rental". I wonder why? There's nothing particularly sensitive about hiring a car and their home address was common knowledge by then so I doubt it's this.  Linda McQueen mentions Sandy having had a rental car before the Scenic. I hadn't realized this and wonder why he never mentioned this in his statement.
I think you'll find it is the address that's been tip-exed.  If you look at another copy from the PJ files, barely legible, you can just about make out the address, also the copy rental agreements for other individuals, the same part of the document has been tip-exed. 



Gives me headache trying to read the rental agreements.  I recall taking a look at Sandy Cameron a long while ago, I'll try to locate the detail later.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Phoebe on 23.05.17 16:57

@ Verdi. yes it must be the address that's redacted. I just wonder about Sandy's hire car and if it was ever examined by the P.J, The McCanns always led me to believe they had no access to transport other than lifts from M.W. and so on before they hired the Scenic.
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Verdi on 24.05.17 1:06

@Phoebe wrote:@ Verdi. yes it must be the address that's redacted. I just wonder about Sandy's hire car and if it was ever examined by the P.J, The McCanns always led me to believe they had no access to transport other than lifts from M.W. and so on before they hired the Scenic.
Reverting to your original questions, this is taken from Sandy Cameron's rogatory interview on 15th April 2008..

During these first two months we provided help to Kate and Gerry, and only returned to the U.K. on two occasions in order to take care of some personal business. In the beginning of July of 2007, we left the Ocean Club and moved to a villa with Kate, Gerry and the twins in the Montinhos zone, around 1.5 km from the OC. We never noticed anything strange in the site were we stayed. On the 27th of May of 2007, Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex; a Renault Scenic with plate number 59-DA-27. I met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request, and as such, my name was also on the rental contract so that I could also drive the vehicle; to drive the children and to go shopping. These were things that Gerry was too occupied to carry out himself. I was the habitual drive of the vehicle and used it daily. I drove to many places, including the airport, local supermarkets, and drove the children to the zoo and the beaches in the area. I also travelled as a passenger on many occasions, when Kate, Gerry or other people were visiting, or driving the vehicle. People who were present in the vehicle were Kate, Gerry, Sean, Amelie, Mike Wright, Janet (Kate's aunt), Kate's mother and father, and her friend Amanda. Basically, the vehicle served as a transport for friend and family who cam to offer their help to Kate and Gerry and also to effect daily routines. The same vehicle was also used to move us from the Ocean Club to the villa, transporting all the luggage and personal objects from one location to the other. During these trips, the children seats would be removed to create space.

Whilst in the villa, a gardener would arrive every week or about every 15 days. This was organized by the estate agency. The gardener would leave black rubbish bags near the gate, and on at least one occasion, I used the vehicle to remove these bags. The collection of rubbish in Portugal is not made as it is in the U.K., and for this reason, it was necessary to take the rubbish to a tip (disposal area) which was called 'recycling area' near the back of the Ocean Club. I used the Renault Scenic for this reason on many occasions.

On one occasion, I believe it was on July of 2007, I took Patricia to the supermarket. We carried bags in the boot (trunk) of the Renault Scenic; bought various items including fresh fish, shrimp and beef. When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car. I did not give it much importance and assumed it was likely due to the leakage from the rubbish bags or from the blood which had escaped from the shopping bags. As a result, we removed the carpet from the boot (trunk) in order to clean it. I tossed (beat) the boot carpet to remove any particles and cleaned it with a wet cloth and left it to air out.

In my opinion, it is impossible that Kate and Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or used the car to transport her to another locale. There was always a lot of people and the media observing their movements which would make this impossible. As I cited previously, I have know Madeleine her whole life and saw her on many occasions. I always found her a very smart little girl and careful with strangers. I also saw when she woke after a nap and after a night of sleep. She would occasionally appear irritated as she would when her parents were not present. For this reason, I believe that Madeleine had been awakened by a stranger she would certainly have screamed or cried out. I do not believe that there is any possibility that she would have let a stranger take her without protest.
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Linda McQueen rogatory interview April 2008

During the first week that I was in Portugal [12th-19th May] Kate and Gerry were transported [driven] by representatives of Mark Warner. Sandy Cameron was also there and possessed a hire car, but it was not the Renault Scenic that Gerry and Kate rented during the third week that I stayed with them in Portugal.

In the second week that I was there, I travelled to Portugal with Nicky Gill. We stayed with the Trish and Sandy in the apartment close to Kate and Gerry. On this occasion Gerry drove a hire car but I do not remember if it was the previous car of Sandy or the Renault scenic.

In the third week I travelled to Portugal with my husband, Mark, our daughter Ellie and the priest Paul Seddon. Ellie and I stayed in the Villa that Kate and Gerry had rented, Paul and Mark stayed in an apartment in the immediate vicinity. During this period both Kate [not named driver on rental contract] and Gerry drove the Renault Scenic and I travelled frequently in that vehicle.

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