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coincidences and the car hire.

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coincidences and the car hire.

Post by sijm on 06.02.12 20:01

I did not want to start a full topic on the car hire subject again because Tony had covered it and did a good job and I myself had touced on the subject in another topic but since that, I have linked another strange coincidence.

I already had mentioned, how retired Dr George Jeremy Thomson OC holiday maker, and named prior rentee of th Renault Scenic 59-DA-27 who is holder of licence Thoms 30++++ issued on 4th Feb 2007 in UK, How he and another Jeremy Thomson IT, who I had told the forum had so desperatley pleaded with a blogger named Moonflake, to put him (Thomson IT) in touch with Dannie Krugel on the 12th June2007, Thomson stated to Moonflake blogger, how, there was a ten million rand reward, 2.5 million pounds to find Madeleine.

Moonflake the blogger who Jeremy Thomson IT had pleaded with to put him in touch with Krugel was is a known skeptic of Krugels and of his alleged Satellite missing person finder machine, Krugel had gone so far as to predicti that within three months somthing big/international would happen with his machine that was in Jan 2007.

Madeleine went missing in April/May 2007.

Allegedly Kate was the one who asked if Krugel could go to Portugal to look for Madeline and he mapped out an area where a blankets was found, also a twitter named Oddityfinder has tweeted that he thinks he had an image of a human form via Satellite, hidden in a rock tomb on Rocha Negra in 2007, these are the links with the name, Jeremy Thomson, the rental car and Dannie Krugel and a possible find of Madeline.

About the car hire, it seems some new coincidences have come up with the name Wright, that of the first Dr Michael Wright retiree, holiday maker in OC, and prior rentee of the Renault Scenic 59-DA-27 and the second Michael Wright of the McCann driver who seemed so reluctant to put his name on the rental car as a additional driver, the Poilce files say these two are not linked, although the files said, the first De Michael Wright was not interviewed.

There are now four coincidental names linked to the McCann case either with the rental car or the Krugel psychic link.

The players in the IT/car/psychic name games are as follows.

1.Jon Corner IT expert, Soni school of excellence and River Media founder, also Blair Media Control consultant. God-Father to McCann twins.

2.Jeremy Thomson IT, I suspect the same Jeremy Thomson who works for Sky TV, Murdochs baby.

3. Dr Jeremy Thomson retiree and Renault Scenic rentee. Not sure if this Jeremy Thomson was the one accompanied by a John Sands Brown?

4.According to police files there is a Michael Thomson Kate's friend who has made a statement. that's three Jeremy Thomson's?

Dr Michael Wright Renault Scenic rentee and OC holiday maker, said not connected to first Michael Wright?

5.This Michael Wright, married to Ann Marie, Kate's cousin, and seemily reluctant named additional driver by GM for the Renault Scenic, he was the one who informed the police, someone had told him they saw Madeleine being dragged away on the Lagos Marina.

Cameron married toTrish Cameron ( is'nt Trish an IT lecturer?

There is also an Amanda Hart who allocates web sites, could this be the same Amanda Hart the psychic who says she was on the Madeleine case?

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Coincidences and the car hire

Post by sijm on 08.02.12 14:44

Well have done a bit more research and it may be getting interesting.

If this disappearence of Madeleine was planned by someone way in advance, where better than in a foreign Country with a language barrier and different police strategies also one where a horrific case of child abuse (Casa Pia) cas had taken place.

When researching into known peadophiles I came across a site that had links to childrens dance schools, clearly a hunting ground for peadophiles.

Now back to car hire coincidences, One of those who rented the Renault Scenic was Fernando Adolfo Vasconcelos Pereira although he says he did not recall the licence number until he was shown the hire car contract, he had hired the Renault Scenic from the 17th to the 22nd of May, Mr Fernando Adolfo de Vasconcelos Pereira is a secondary school (a PHYSICAL INSTRUCTOR)

After he had finished with the car he left it at the school premises where he worked, where-bye a care hire rental employee had gone to collect it on 22nd May 2007, Asked to clarfy his use of the vehicle he stated , It was usually for routine trips in and around the area of his residence. he was the driver at the time admitting his wife had used it once to go to the school where he worked, his wife, father,children were in the vehicle, he never transported cadavers or any species in the car, he had never met the McCanns.

Looking for a Mr Fernando Adolfo Vasconcelos Pereira the Renault Scenic the car hirer on 17-22nd May.

I came up with one Fernando Adolfo Vasconcelos Pereira who is based in a PORTIMAO school as a PHYSICAl INSTRUCTOR, The web site of Morada school-Av 25 de Abril 4 8500 Portimao, had a video to run on it showing mostly long haired blonde little girls from approx age eight to twelve wearing very short frilly traditional costumes who were prancing around the stage to a small crowd of male and female parents/teachers delight, nothing toward about this only the coincidence that Madeleine was learning a dance rountine the day before she went missing.

Could this dance routine be a selection area for what was to follow?
Looking at the Map of Portimao, I traced backwards towards PRAIA DA LUZ and noticed some of the names of the areas one could pass through, these were ALVOR,RIBEIRA DE ODIAXERE, ODIAXERE- LAGOS and of course PRAIA DA LUZ.


The next rentee of the Renault Scenic was one (I assume) a Dutch couple with three children, one 3yr old, one 11 and 16 yrs old,as well as KM's parents. (as noted)

My notes from the Police files say, The Dessau police located the individual who rented the Renault Scenic from the 23-27th-05-2007. On 2-10-2007, officers went to the work place of Exxxxxxx Mxxxxxx, Wittenburg, where they interviwed him and apparently they had also hired a child seat for the three year old which was already very used, the car was driver exclusiveley by Mr M only for family trips, it was used for short trips between 3 and 4 hours, the furthest place visited was about 50 km.

Niether Mr nor Mrs M have any explanation for the cadaver detected in the vehicle, they also said neither of them knows the McCann family and had no contact with anyone from that circle.

Places visited my the Dutch based family were ALVOR, PORTIMAO, LAGOS. they returned the car 26th May 2007, the McCanns hired the car on 27th May 2007.

GM rented the Renault Scenic 27.5.2007 from AA Castanheira with offices in LAGOS.
Wittenburg Castle is located in a wooded area just a few kilometers from the centre of the HAGUE. NEDERLANDS.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by tigger on 06.04.14 13:55

Some more on the car hire.

Eta: from page 3 Huelva topic :


Re: Trip to Huelva
PeterMac on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:52 pm

p. 272 "The meticulous record of events in my journals enabled us to account for every journey we made in the Renault Scenic, taking us to within a few kilometres of the much-publicized ‘unexplained mystery mileage of the McCanns’ hire car’ which, of course, was not a mystery at all."


Last edited by PeterMac on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add page No)

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by aquila on 06.04.14 17:12

I've never understood why the car wasn't retained as evidence once the dogs alerted. It's known that forensic science is constantly improving. A few euros for a car wouldn't have broken the PJ's budget on the case. The UK police didn't seem interested to keep the car either.

Or have I got it wrong?
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by ultimaThule on 06.04.14 17:54

What was the PJ's budget for the case, aquila?

As I see it, given that the EVRD dogs' alerts were recorded for posterity and any relevant forensic findings, potential or otherwise, were removed from it, there was no reason for the car to be retained as evidence. 

It's my understanding that, as no British police force was empowered to investigate this case in Portugal, there would be no reason for 'the UK police' to be interested in keeping the vehicle.
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Newintown on 06.04.14 18:03

aquila wrote:I've never understood why the car wasn't retained as evidence once the dogs alerted. It's known that forensic science is constantly improving. A few euros for a car wouldn't have broken the PJ's budget on the case. The UK police didn't seem interested to keep the car either.

Or have I got it wrong?

No doubt the PJ knew that the case was going to run into hundreds of thousands of euros as it was, but to have to buy the car off the hire company no doubt it would have cost 6-7,000 Euros or more at least as most hire cars are up to date models, I don't suppose their budget would have stretched that far.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by aquila on 06.04.14 18:04

ultimaThule wrote:What was the PJ's budget for the case, aquila?

As I see it, given that the EVRD dogs' alerts were recorded for posterity and any relevant forensic findings, potential or otherwise, were removed from it, there was no reason for the car to be retained as evidence. 

It's my understanding that, as no British police force was empowered to investigate this case in Portugal, there would be no reason for 'the UK police' to be interested in keeping the vehicle.
I know my comment was a sweeping statement and I was waiting for someone to come up with a good opinion on the matter which you've done.

I just find it difficult to understand that the car was not retained if for no other reason than the dogs alerted, there were fibres etc. Why not keep the car for future reference? It wouldn't have cost too much. The PJ could easily have taken this decision. The UK did the forensics and as far as we know the forensics were not quite as they should be. Subsequently the FSS Birmingham was closed (that World leader in forensic science) and Martin Grime went to USA.

It makes me wonder why the car wasn't retained by the PJ.
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by tigger on 06.04.14 18:45

I pulled this up because someone was wondering (on another car topic) on the mileage.
p. 272 "The meticulous record of events in my journals enabled us to account for every journey we made in the Renault Scenic, taking us to within a few kilometres of the much-publicized ‘unexplained mystery mileage of the McCanns’ hire car’ which, of course, was not a mystery at all.
Unquote

I am stunned that KH exhibit 1 had this snippet in it.

Besides, I've not seen any mileage recorded in her diary, so what is the woman talking about?

Certainly a big red arrow pointing to a very sensitive subject.

So pre the the writing of the book, the mileage must have been discussed seriously enough to warrant this disclaimer.
Can't recall reading in the diary:  had some chocolate, Gerry contacted Elton John, walked to the supermarket for a bottle of New Zealand white and had a few glasses.  Mileage today: 4534.....or as the case may be: trip meter..
Or each time the car was used, by whoever did, For Kate was never a listed driver.
Adding up all those trips? Over more than three months?

The car has the answer, it seems.

Eta: who on earth bothers to record the daily or weekly mileage?  thinking

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Nina on 06.04.14 19:50

Actually Tigger I do.
We hire cars now 2 months at a time as we don't own a car any more. Because of km limitation, 2000km per rental I have to take regular checks. It is a 80 km round trip just to do the weekly supermarket shop, so I very soon knock some kms up living where we do. So maybe Kate was checking because of that, there was a limit.
I have to add though that if I reach the 2000 before the 2 months is up I just take the car back and get another at no extra cost.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Doug D on 06.04.14 20:17

Tigger:
 
‘who on earth bothers to record the daily or weekly mileage?’
 
But there was nothing of any importance going on, so why not. KM needed to fill her days doing something and couldn’t be out running or sniffing cc all of the time.

I wonder whether these 'journal' records ever found their way to the PJ so they could check them against the diary, blog, phone pings etc?

Silly me, they didn't need to. She who must be believed SAID they added up, so that's alright then.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Guest on 06.04.14 20:20

In fact the McCann clocked between 27-05-2007 and 23-09-2007the difference between 3114km and 14443km  ... That's big! Probably because the contract was extended several times, there's no real clocking in mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Nina on 06.04.14 20:29

Châtelaine wrote:In fact the McCann clocked between 27-05-2007 and 23-09-2007the difference between 3114km and 14443km  ... That's big! Probably because the contract was extended several times, there's no real clocking in mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007
Now as a long time car hire person long term. I find this very strange as the cars have to be serviced so when was this car attended to with that milage?

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Guest on 06.04.14 20:35

Nina wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:In fact the McCann clocked between 27-05-2007 and 23-09-2007the difference between 3114km and 14443km  ... That's big! Probably because the contract was extended several times, there's no real clocking in mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007
Now as a long time car hire person long term. I find this very strange as the cars have to be serviced so when was this car attended to with that milage?
***
Cars nowadays are serviced every 20,000 km., Nina. At least so are mine ... ;-)
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by tigger on 06.04.14 20:41

Nina wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:In fact the McCann clocked between 27-05-2007 and 23-09-2007the difference between 3114km and 14443km  ... That's big! Probably because the contract was extended several times, there's no real clocking in mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007
Now as a long time car hire person long term. I find this very strange as the cars have to be serviced so when was this car attended to with that milage?

Thanks for the feedback, had never thought about service.
in the Renault Scenic topic is a post on Amaral having questioned the mileage, so no wonder the explanation had to go into the book.
For some reason the question could not be ignored. It does imply that Kate wrote down every trip they made? Such as the one where the twins had a tantrum when they went to buy shoes for them, every trip to the local waste disposal (with or without a fridge) and the odd trip to Burgau. And in all that time Kate was never a named driver, too busy writing down the trip details?

In total the three car topics should have nearly all the answers.
I wonder if the Scenic spent a long time in Geraghty's garage for their 'own' forensic experts to research.
Never seen the results. .... Special dogs who only react to dirty nappies?  winkwink 

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by HelenMeg on 07.04.14 10:31

tigger wrote:
Nina wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:In fact the McCann clocked between 27-05-2007 and 23-09-2007the difference between 3114km and 14443km  ... That's big! Probably because the contract was extended several times, there's no real clocking in mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007
Now as a long time car hire person long term. I find this very strange as the cars have to be serviced so when was this car attended to with that milage?

Thanks for the feedback, had never thought about service.
in the Renault Scenic topic is a post on Amaral having questioned the mileage, so no wonder the explanation had to go into the book.
For some reason the question could not be ignored. It does imply that Kate wrote down every trip they made? Such as the one where the twins had a tantrum when they went to buy shoes for them, every trip to the local waste disposal (with or without a fridge) and the odd trip to Burgau. And in all that time Kate was never a named driver, too busy writing down the trip details?

In total the three car topics should have nearly all the answers.
I wonder if the Scenic spent a long  time in Geraghty's garage for their 'own' forensic experts to research.
Never seen the results. ....  Special dogs who only react to dirty nappies?  winkwink 
The whole thing about the car being stored in Geraghty's garage stinks... (as well as the car) ...
what were they doing with it? Obviously  not their own forensic testing. They must have been giving it a thorough clean. They knew exactly what had been found

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Fiona09 on 07.04.14 11:27

The impression I got from the book was that Kate was suggesting that her "meticulous record of events" in her diary meant that she could go back and justify the huge mileage once it was questioned, rather than she was taking a note of the mileage as she went along.  Hence the reason she managed to justify ALMOST every mile, but not quite!  Pretty easy to manipulate the figures when you're guessing how many miles you did on a particular journey IMO.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by j.rob on 07.04.14 12:16

tigger wrote:I pulled this up because someone was wondering (on another car topic) on the mileage.
p. 272 "The meticulous record of events in my journals enabled us to account for every journey we made in the Renault Scenic, taking us to within a few kilometres of the much-publicized ‘unexplained mystery mileage of the McCanns’ hire car’ which, of course, was not a mystery at all.
Unquote

I am stunned that KH exhibit 1 had this snippet in it.

Besides, I've not seen any mileage recorded in her diary, so what is the woman talking about?

Certainly a big red arrow pointing to a very sensitive subject.

So pre the the writing of the book, the mileage must have been discussed seriously enough to warrant this disclaimer.
Can't recall reading in the diary:  had some chocolate, Gerry contacted Elton John, walked to the supermarket for a bottle of New Zealand white and had a few glasses.  Mileage today: 4534.....or as the case may be: trip meter..
Or each time the car was used, by whoever did, For Kate was never a listed driver.
Adding up all those trips? Over more than three months?

The car has the answer, it seems.

Eta: who on earth bothers to record the daily or weekly mileage?  thinking
 Yes, the car has to be an important clue. The sniffer dog alerts, the open boot, the smell. the trips to the dump, the fridge (are there any records of that alleged blog from Gerry about taking a fridge/freezer to the dump?) and as you say, Kate helpfully writes that she 'meticulously' recorded events in her journal, which enabled her to account for every journey made in the Renault Scenic.

It is beyond extraordinary that the two people who were/are the most likely suspects were busily driving around in the weeks and months after their daughter's disappearance, presumably getting rid of any incriminating evidence, imo.

I am still wondering, though, whether Gerry and Kate were on quite the same page in all of the goings-on. Her comments on page 276 about her fears that Madeleine had fallen into the hands of a paedophile. 'When she was first stolen, paedophiles were all we could think about, and it made us sick, ate away at us.'

"Tortured as I was by these nauseating images, it's probably not surprising that even the thought of sex repulsed me."

These passages then lead on, unfortunately, to Kate worrying about her and Gerry's sex life (page 276) . Why on earth she chose to include any of this is bewildering. Many things are best left unsaid. For all sorts of reasons.

However, she writes: "I worried about Gerry and me. I worried that if I couldn't get our sex life back on track our whole relationship would break down."

And what then, what would happen if their whole relationship broke down? 

There would be a break in the chain. Something might give presumably.

It's as though Kate has to believe in Gerry. "Deep down I knew there were only two solutions: bringing Madeleine back or conquering my mental block. Since the first was not within my control, it was up to me to try to train my mind and my thought processes. So this is what I applied myself to doing."

Of course, there would have been another solution or even several other solutions to , but, for whatever reason, Kate does not want to 'go there'. 

I wonder why not? It is as if her very life depends on "staying together" and "staying strong for our family."

I find these passages quite revealing. Although they also disturb me.

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by tigger on 07.04.14 13:22

@j.rob

Kandang posted a long time ago that Gerry is reported to have said soon after 3/5: 'It's important that Kate continues to believe Madeleine has been abducted' .

No reference which I would dearly like to find.

Keep taking the pills is my advice.

Aquila has pointed out in the past that the McCann family only seem concerned with Gerry in the early days. barely mentioning Kate.  

 thinking

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 07.04.14 18:12

Châtelaine wrote:In fact the McCann clocked between 27-05-2007 and 23-09-2007the difference between 3114km and 14443km  ... That's big! Probably because the contract was extended several times, there's no real clocking in mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007

The biggest anomaly for me with the car is between the 01-09-07 and 23-09-07 where the car did just over 5300 miles! 

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/C/p2917.jpg Odometer= 5866km 01-09-07

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_2955.jpg Odometer= 14443 23-09-07


The McCanns' as we know left Portugal on the 9th September, so did all other family/friends leave by that day too? 

Who had the car between the McCanns' leaving for home on the 09-09-07 and 23-09-07 handover and why/how did they put 5300 miles/8500 km on it in three weeks?
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Guest on 07.04.14 18:29

If you look a little closer, you'll see - as I mentioned before - that obviously mileage wasn't taken between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007. In fact there was just ONE kilometer added on 02-08-2007 and one on 01-09-2007.
So we only know, the mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007 totaled 8579 kilometers, but it's not possible to know exactly in which period this happened and in which portions. It IS a lot of kilometers, though, in some 2,5 months ...

FYI the distance between PdL and Rothley is 2499 km ;-)
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 07.04.14 18:45

Châtelaine wrote:If you look a little closer, you'll see - as I mentioned before - that obviously mileage wasn't taken between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007. In fact there was just ONE kilometer added on 02-08-2007 and one on 01-09-2007.
So we only know, the mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007 totaled 8579 kilometers, but it's not possible to know exactly in which period this happened and in which portions. It IS a lot of kilometers, though, in some 2,5 months ...

FYI the distance between PdL and Rothley is 2499 km ;-)

I see what you mean. And I had also thought about the PdL to Rothley run too! A return trip can be done in as little as 3 days with two drivers and account nicely for the mileage. But surely the PJ would know about it leaving Portugal?
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by tigger on 07.04.14 18:57

Châtelaine wrote:If you look a little closer, you'll see - as I mentioned before - that obviously mileage wasn't taken between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007. In fact there was just ONE kilometer added on 02-08-2007 and one on 01-09-2007.
So we only know, the mileage between 03-07-2007 and 23-09-2007 totaled 8579 kilometers, but it's not possible to know exactly in which period this happened and in which portions. It IS a lot of kilometers, though, in some 2,5 months ...

FYI the distance between PdL and Rothley is 2499 km ;-)

Here is an interesting article from  September 2007 where it is alleged that the McCanns were given another car but the same numberplate.

Certainly two separate cars would make more sense in terms of the km reading of the last three weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482815/Madeleines-parents-British-police-bugging-phone-calls-emails.html#ixzz2KdCnTXSy

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by Gillyspot on 07.04.14 21:10

Thanks for the link Tigger

I have just noticed this in it.

"
Portuguese detectives have taken a step closer to being able to search the McCann family home.

Policia Judiciaria detectives believe something inside the Leicestershire house could yield a vital clue and have sought approval from the judge in the case to ask British officers to carry out the raid.

Yesterday Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias agreed to the request."

I assume this didn't happen as there was nothing in the files. Was the search blocked by UK?

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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by worriedmum on 07.04.14 21:48

Gillyspot wrote:Thanks for the link Tigger

I have just noticed this in it.

"
Portuguese detectives have taken a step closer to being able to search the McCann family home.

Policia Judiciaria detectives believe something inside the Leicestershire house could yield a vital clue and have sought approval from the judge in the case to ask British officers to carry out the raid.

Yesterday Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias agreed to the request."

I assume this didn't happen as there was nothing in the files. Was the search blocked by UK?
Interesting word choice-they didn't say 'a search of the house could yield a vital clue'- was there 'something' they had in mind?
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Re: coincidences and the car hire.

Post by kimHager on 08.04.14 8:00

I wonder what they are going to search? Perhaps the shrine on the mantle with the little thing that resembles an urn of 'some sort......

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