Re: June 2007 - blog and diary.

by bobbin 26.02.14 11:58

dantezebu wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Monday 30th April afternoon, all creche taking/collecting carried out by Kate:

MBM dropped off at creche 3.15pm, collected at 3.30pm. That's 15 minutes spent at creche. Twins at creche 3.25pm, collected at 5.20pm.

So MBM first, then twins, then straight back to collect MBM, and later twins. Where was Gerry and what did Kate and MBM do together that afternoon?
LIR
I cannot find anything about GMs activity that day
According to KM's diary she went to the supermarket with Jane. And went for a run at 4pm and a tennis lession at 4.30 (where was MBM then)?

Monday 30.04.2007
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:

Tennis 09.15-10.15 K

G 10.15-11.15

washing machine / blinds

Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave
]

Kids club?? beach

/ - 16.00 K run 25 min

]16:30 Tennis lessons

High tea[/

18:30? tennis night for women

Recreational area

Afternoon: K and J Supermarket

Rest. - everyone

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According to Jane she sat around the pool:

4078 "Okay. So Monday afternoon you were sitting by the pool and the playing area was

near there. Can you remember what else happened on the Monday?”

With no mention of the supermarket. Just some drivel about the kids club tea

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ETA I don't know why all these numbers have come up And I don't know how to get rid of them

How can there be a question mark after Breakfast in Apartment ?. Surely as they only ate breakfast at the Millenium on the Sunday morning, and all the rest were in the apartment, according to Kate's own statements, how can she be asking herself where they ate breakfast.

Washing Machine/ Shutter.
Already preparing the staging / testing the shutters (in parent's bedroom) ? and discovering how to break them...needing the maintenance men to come over and repair ?

But when was the diary day when Kate mentionned 'pruning'. Was it the Sunday, 29th April. I have always felt this to be a very 'out of the ordinary' thing to do on a holiday.

Did Kate use secateurs that she brought along with her, or kitchen scissors from the apartment kitchen. Perhaps she bought them at Baptista's.

Why would she want to prune anything when there are better things to do like jogging, tennis, swimming, even, god forbid, playing with the children.

Also, it's not her business to be changing the shapes of the garden displays. That is the job of garden maintenance. If every tourist took to cutting the trees, plants and shrubs, there'd be no telling what the landscape would look like at the end of a season.

Given that the dogs signalled the garden area by the wall, I am of the belief that it's possible that a fall of a child onto the terrace below, via the wall climbing plants, caused some damage, and very early days, I recall reading about broken twigs having some hair or blood on them.
I'm an obsessive pruner but cannot think of a single time when I have or would have ever, taken it unto myself to interfere with or re-model someone else's landscaping.

There must be some implication for why Kate would bother to put in the diary for Madeleine's return, 'pruning'. nah

by Guest 26.02.14 11:59

To get rid of all that size and colour stuff that appears just click on the right hand box above the reply box called 'Switch to Editor Mode' this will show up all those unwanted font sizes etc., and you can delete yourself then.

by **PeterMac** 26.02.14 12:00

jeanmonroe wrote:
The PJ have, AFAIK, never 'had' the 'last photo' or 'tennis balls' photo, and nor it appears are those two in PJ files. They have now, as has Grange and Dr Amaral.
Those photos don't seem to be included on either of the two seperately delivered CD's the PJ received from GM or Michael Wrong. Correct. Either would have been perfect for the poster, but were not released for a long time..
Now why would the McCanns 'hold' those two back, in particular, from the PJ, when they were 'in' KM's camera (supposedly) just a few hours BEFORE the 'disappearance'?
Ah yes, but WHICH camera ?
If they did.

by Doug D 26.02.14 12:14

Without examination of the actual records (not the released photos), I think we should be wary of drawing too much inference on any of the crèche records as frankly they are all rubbish and many entries look as though they were made to catch up after the event, so pretty worthless for proper timeline analysis.

Just looking at Lobsters on 30^th April, if the records are to be believed, two of the kids must have spent the night there (or maybe four if my thoughts about entries on sheets above coming through are correct).

Many of the signatures on the sheets that week (not just the Mc’s) are dubious to say the least and whilst the nannies have openly signed kids in & out (eg Cat – Nanny) on a couple of occasions, some of the sign-outs are decidedly iffy.

Going back to the 30^th sheet where on the face of it M. was in & out within 15 minutes, allegedly signed by KM on both sides, the time 15.15 is all written in full height numbers, yet the sign out 15.30 has the 30 written in half size and may be 5.30, with the 1, which is very feint, having come through from a previous page. If you look at other sheets there are plenty of marks that have come through.

Alternatively it could be 17.30 written in error as 15.30 because it’s half past 5, a pretty common error for people who don’t generally use the 24 hour clock.

Surprisingly (not really!) it looks like GM who generally writes the minutes half size, but then so do some of the creche staff, whereas KM looks to use full size numbers.

Whilst the question certainly needs to be asked about their activities (and M's whereabouts) that afternoon and which I have never seen answered, I have my suspicions that even if it was M. in the crèche that afternoon or someone else, the sign out time was intended to be 17.30.

Innocent explanation or error under stress? Who knows?

by rustyjames 26.02.14 13:47

bobbin wrote:
How can there be a question mark after Breakfast in Apartment ?.

I've not read all the entries but was wondering if it indicates the diary is written for the day's planning rather than a record of what happened. Given it is followed by a comment about apartment cleaning it could be a question as to whether they would be able to have breakfast uninterrupted.

by worriedmum 26.02.14 13:53

Doug D ''Going back to the 30^th sheet where on the face of it M. was in & out within 15 minutes, allegedly signed by KM on both sides, the time 15.15 is all written in full height numbers, yet the sign out 15.30 has the 30 written in half size and may be 5.30, with the 1, which is very feint, having come through from a previous page. If you look at other sheets there are plenty of marks that have come through.

Alternatively it could be 17.30 written in error as 15.30 because it’s half past 5, a pretty common error for people who don’t generally use the 24 hour clock.'' unquote

Oh , you mean like doctors ~~don't~~, ~~do,~~ don't er......

by Guest 26.02.14 14:07

rustyjames wrote:
bobbin wrote:
How can there be a question mark after Breakfast in Apartment ?.

I've not read all the entries but was wondering if it indicates the diary is written for the day's planning rather than a record of what happened. Given it is followed by a comment about apartment cleaning it could be a question as to whether they would be able to have breakfast uninterrupted.

The first days of the diary were written some time after the 3rd May rustyjames.
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by **tigger** 26.02.14 14:55

What I find interesting from the diary is the evident trouble getting the twins to sleep. Their hair had to grow long enough so that all traces of sedation would be cut off together with the hair.

Quite fed up...I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain.
Bedtime is becoming more and more of a challenge.

Day 30 - 02/06/2007 - Saturday
We did visit a local beach with Sean, Amelie and the rest of the family who are here and managed to get a bite to eat.
SATURDAY, JUNE 2:
Fed up again 'poor M. Once again it took a long time before S and A were sorted..
Thinking about her fear of pain breaks my heart. Thinking about paedophiles makes me want to tear at my own skin.
Unquote

The fear of pain - I know think that can best be explained by a form of medical treatment.

by HelenMeg 26.02.14 15:03

bobbin wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Monday 30th April afternoon, all creche taking/collecting carried out by Kate:

MBM dropped off at creche 3.15pm, collected at 3.30pm. That's 15 minutes spent at creche. Twins at creche 3.25pm, collected at 5.20pm.

So MBM first, then twins, then straight back to collect MBM, and later twins. Where was Gerry and what did Kate and MBM do together that afternoon?
LIR
I cannot find anything about GMs activity that day
According to KM's diary she went to the supermarket with Jane. And went for a run at 4pm and a tennis lession at 4.30 (where was MBM then)?

Monday 30.04.2007
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:

Tennis 09.15-10.15 K

G 10.15-11.15

washing machine / blinds

Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave
]

Kids club?? beach

/ - 16.00 K run 25 min

]16:30 Tennis lessons

High tea[/

18:30? tennis night for women

Recreational area

Afternoon: K and J Supermarket

Rest. - everyone

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

According to Jane she sat around the pool:

4078 "Okay. So Monday afternoon you were sitting by the pool and the playing area was

near there. Can you remember what else happened on the Monday?”

With no mention of the supermarket. Just some drivel about the kids club tea

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
ETA I don't know why all these numbers have come up And I don't know how to get rid of them

But when was the diary day when Kate mentionned 'pruning'. Was it the Sunday, 29th April. I have always felt this to be a very 'out of the ordinary' thing to do on a holiday.

Did Kate use secateurs that she brought along with her, or kitchen scissors from the apartment kitchen. Perhaps she bought them at Baptista's.

Why would she want to prune anything when there are better things to do like jogging, tennis, swimming, even, god forbid, playing with the children.

Also, it's not her business to be changing the shapes of the garden displays. That is the job of garden maintenance. If every tourist took to cutting the trees, plants and shrubs, there'd be no telling what the landscape would look like at the end of a season.

Given that the dogs signalled the garden area by the wall, I am of the belief that it's possible that a fall of a child onto the terrace below, via the wall climbing plants, caused some damage, and very early days, I recall reading about broken twigs having some hair or blood on them.
I'm an obsessive pruner but cannot think of a single time when I have or would have ever, taken it unto myself to interfere with or re-model someone else's landscaping.

There must be some implication for why Kate would bother to put in the diary for Madeleine's return, 'pruning'.

That is unbelievable - pruning!!!
That goes alongside fridge dumping /curtain washing for things that normal people would NOT do on holidays.

Well, the theory that GM was taking the body from the apartment when he was interrupted by Jez Wilkins, and had to quickly place the body in the garden where the dogs later alerted to cadaver, may account for the pruning. I would imagine that once the dead body had lain there iot might have been necessary to do abit of pruning and remove any contaminated branches/ plants / earth.
Its a possible explanation.

I'm sorry but NOONE does pruning on holiday in an apartment that belongs to someone else.

by Guest 26.02.14 15:10

I don't know if KM was pruning or she saw a gardener.
Maybe she was cutting a hole through the hedge for a better view from the TAPAS

by HelenMeg 26.02.14 15:13

dantezebu wrote:I don't know if KM was pruning or she saw a gardener.
Maybe she was cutting a hole through the hedge for a better view from the TAPAS

Yes maybe

by worriedmum 26.02.14 15:14

dantezebu wrote:I don't know if KM was pruning or she saw a gardener.
Maybe she was cutting a hole through the hedge for a better view from the TAPAS

Naughty! Seriously now, where is the information from about the pruning?

by Guest 26.02.14 15:15

worriedmum wrote:
dantezebu wrote:I don't know if KM was pruning or she saw a gardener.
Maybe she was cutting a hole through the hedge for a better view from the TAPAS
Naughty! Seriously now, where is the information from about the pruning?

Sun 29.04.2007
Breakfast Millennium Restaurant
? pruning of hedge
Morning Kids Club
10:00 morning talking over coffee, I went along to tennis
Lunch sandwiches →
→ F balcony and Dave
Kids Club afternoon
Seated in deck-chairs F A A
K and G run - Beach 16:00
High tea
recreational area
Rest.: No Matt

by sami 26.02.14 15:31

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Maybe pruning around this area ?

by Praia 26.02.14 16:19

It refers to the OC gardeners working around the apts. It's in one of the statements. She started the diary early on, possibly the week after, so the first number of days activities are written from memory.

by Guest 26.02.14 16:22

HelenMeg wrote:
bobbin wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Monday 30th April afternoon, all creche taking/collecting carried out by Kate:

MBM dropped off at creche 3.15pm, collected at 3.30pm. That's 15 minutes spent at creche. Twins at creche 3.25pm, collected at 5.20pm.

So MBM first, then twins, then straight back to collect MBM, and later twins. Where was Gerry and what did Kate and MBM do together that afternoon?
LIR
I cannot find anything about GMs activity that day
According to KM's diary she went to the supermarket with Jane. And went for a run at 4pm and a tennis lession at 4.30 (where was MBM then)?

Monday 30.04.2007
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:

Tennis 09.15-10.15 K

G 10.15-11.15

washing machine / blinds

Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave
]

Kids club?? beach

/ - 16.00 K run 25 min

]16:30 Tennis lessons

High tea[/

18:30? tennis night for women

Recreational area

Afternoon: K and J Supermarket

Rest. - everyone

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

According to Jane she sat around the pool:

4078 "Okay. So Monday afternoon you were sitting by the pool and the playing area was

near there. Can you remember what else happened on the Monday?”

With no mention of the supermarket. Just some drivel about the kids club tea

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
ETA I don't know why all these numbers have come up And I don't know how to get rid of them

But when was the diary day when Kate mentionned 'pruning'. Was it the Sunday, 29th April. I have always felt this to be a very 'out of the ordinary' thing to do on a holiday.

Did Kate use secateurs that she brought along with her, or kitchen scissors from the apartment kitchen. Perhaps she bought them at Baptista's.

Why would she want to prune anything when there are better things to do like jogging, tennis, swimming, even, god forbid, playing with the children.

Also, it's not her business to be changing the shapes of the garden displays. That is the job of garden maintenance. If every tourist took to cutting the trees, plants and shrubs, there'd be no telling what the landscape would look like at the end of a season.

Given that the dogs signalled the garden area by the wall, I am of the belief that it's possible that a fall of a child onto the terrace below, via the wall climbing plants, caused some damage, and very early days, I recall reading about broken twigs having some hair or blood on them.
I'm an obsessive pruner but cannot think of a single time when I have or would have ever, taken it unto myself to interfere with or re-model someone else's landscaping.

There must be some implication for why Kate would bother to put in the diary for Madeleine's return, 'pruning'.
That is unbelievable - pruning!!!
That goes alongside fridge dumping /curtain washing for things that normal people would NOT do on holidays.

Well, the theory that GM was taking the body from the apartment when he was interrupted by Jez Wilkins, and had to quickly place the body in the garden where the dogs later alerted to cadaver, may account for the pruning. I would imagine that once the dead body had lain there iot might have been necessary to do abit of pruning and remove any contaminated branches/ plants / earth.
Its a possible explanation.

I'm sorry but NOONE does pruning on holiday in an apartment that belongs to someone else.

Fleeing forward again: if the pruning had to be done in the dark, after the child had been picked up from behind the shrubs and removed, what better way to explain the sorry look of these shrubs than by saying you pruned them 4 days before? Just in case someone noticed and made a mental note of it for future reference

by lj 26.02.14 16:30

sami wrote:I think the important part of the narrative is Gerry walking him to his apartment - Gerry was at an apartment he had no reason to be seen at.

I doubt that man exists, but if he does, I bet he has not had a drink since. Imagine waking up to see their two mugs looking at you. Poor man.

That would be one of the few events in life that would make me drink and drink and drink ......

by sami 26.02.14 16:37

lj wrote:
sami wrote:I think the important part of the narrative is Gerry walking him to his apartment - Gerry was at an apartment he had no reason to be seen at.

I doubt that man exists, but if he does, I bet he has not had a drink since. Imagine waking up to see their two mugs looking at you. Poor man.

That would be one of the few events in life that would make me drink and drink and drink ......

True, or move on to a different, more powerful substance.

Actually, the comment that he recognised them is also interesting. Is it Kate being full of her own self importance or was a man so drunk to be lying in the road going to be coherent enough and fluent in English so as to explain he recognised them ?

by worriedmum 26.02.14 16:41

Praia wrote:It refers to the OC gardeners working around the apts. It's in one of the statements. She started the diary early on, possibly the week after, so the first number of days activities are written from memory.

Thanks Praia. So Kate didn't prune, she was referring to OC staff.

by kimHager 27.02.14 14:41

It almost seems to me like the fear of pain related to bedtime.... Seems to be referenced together... So you have Kate saying padeo then fear of pain.. Then bedtime maybe Maddie was afraid to go to bed or stay in her bed.... Sounds fishy I don't like it

by **PeterMac** 27.02.14 14:47

worriedmum wrote:
Praia wrote:It refers to the OC gardeners working around the apts. It's in one of the statements. She started the diary early on, possibly the week after, so the first number of days activities are written from memory.
Thanks Praia. So Kate didn't prune, she was referring to OC staff.

So we can expect three pruners to be added to the list of suspects !

by ultimaThule 27.02.14 16:08

rustyjames wrote:
bobbin wrote:
How can there be a question mark after Breakfast in Apartment ?.

I've not read all the entries but was wondering if it indicates the diary is written for the day's planning rather than a record of what happened. Given it is followed by a comment about apartment cleaning it could be a question as to whether they would be able to have breakfast uninterrupted.

There's a statement from one of the OC workers in which it seems that, as far was told to him by his colleagues, the McCanns breakfasted at the Millenium every morning and, as I've said elsewhere, I certainly can't imagine the wee one putting his hand in his sporran for meals he'd already paid for as part of a half-board holiday as opposed to the self-catering deal the group could have chosen.

To the best of my recollection, Oldfield said he and wife ate at the Millenium every morning but claims he didn't know whether the others also breakfasted there as his infant woke early each day and the three of them could often be found outside waiting for the door to the restaurant to be opened at 7.30am.

by **tigger** 27.02.14 17:23

PeterMac wrote:
worriedmum wrote:
Praia wrote:It refers to the OC gardeners working around the apts. It's in one of the statements. She started the diary early on, possibly the week after, so the first number of days activities are written from memory.
Thanks Praia. So Kate didn't prune, she was referring to OC staff.

So we can expect three pruners to be added to the list of suspects !

- and they'd have shears and rakes and could have used the snipped off branches as camouflage, hiding disguised as a bush in the bushes whilst Gerry talked to JW.

Are you going to tell SY or shall I? big grin

by Cristobell 27.02.14 18:31

ultimaThule wrote:
rustyjames wrote:
bobbin wrote:
How can there be a question mark after Breakfast in Apartment ?.

I've not read all the entries but was wondering if it indicates the diary is written for the day's planning rather than a record of what happened. Given it is followed by a comment about apartment cleaning it could be a question as to whether they would be able to have breakfast uninterrupted.
There's a statement from one of the OC workers in which it seems that, as far was told to him by his colleagues, the McCanns breakfasted at the Millenium every morning and, as I've said elsewhere, I certainly can't imagine the wee one putting his hand in his sporran for meals he'd already paid for as part of a half-board holiday as opposed to the self-catering deal the group could have chosen.

To the best of my recollection, Oldfield said he and wife ate at the Millenium every morning but claims he didn't know whether the others also breakfasted there as his infant woke early each day and the three of them could often be found outside waiting for the door to the restaurant to be opened at 7.30am.

I agree Ultima, no way would the wee one not have the breakfasts he paid for. The creche was free and the McCann kids never missed a session. Besides Tiny Tears loves a full English.

I also think the fact that the others mentioned the McCanns not eating breakfast at the Millinium after the Sunday is a red flag. Its like when they pointed the finger at Murat, strength in numbers, if they all say the McCanns weren't there, it can't be disproved. As I saw on another thread regarding the black bin bag, Kate said it boils down to one person's word against that of another. The McCanns have used the group to protect them throughout, which gives us a bit of insight into what SY and the PJ are facing.

by lj 28.02.14 0:58

sami wrote:
lj wrote:
sami wrote:I think the important part of the narrative is Gerry walking him to his apartment - Gerry was at an apartment he had no reason to be seen at.

I doubt that man exists, but if he does, I bet he has not had a drink since. Imagine waking up to see their two mugs looking at you. Poor man.

That would be one of the few events in life that would make me drink and drink and drink ......

True, or move on to a different, more powerful substance.

Actually, the comment that he recognised them is also interesting. Is it Kate being full of her own self importance or was a man so drunk to be lying in the road going to be coherent enough and fluent in English so as to explain he recognised them ?

Kate and Gerry are always full of herself, so it might have gone like: "we're ~~from the government~~ Kate and Gerry and we're here to help you.

Man "oh no" and tries to flee, never to be seen or heard of again.

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