Shadow Direction in the Last Picture

by **HiDeHo** 19.01.12 3:29

Apologies for yet ANOTHER Last photo thread, but I am hoping others have some thoughts on the shadow directions.

Threads (including 3A thread) in Madeleine Aimoo Forum for further reference..

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Discrepancies in Last Picture

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Personally, although I have been fascinated by the 'Last Picture' discussions, I tend to believe it was taken at a different time in the holiday as opposed to being faked.

There was a reason it was claimed to be taken at 2.29pm as opposed to 1.29pm and I have often wondered if it was because the shadows would have shown a different time and 2.30pm was closer to the actual time it was taken on another day.

Firstly, I will explain why I don't believe it was taken Thursday lunchtime.

Jane Tanner and Rachael claim they were playing tennis at this time. Jane mentions Madeleine shouting at her through the fence.

Rachael does not mention Madeleine being there and claims the last time she saw Madeleine was when she played mini tennis on Thurday! (Madeleine's group played on TUESDAY!...but thats another story...)

I suspect that Jane may have said about seeing the family to support the last picture timing and Rachael was being 'helpful' in seeing Madeleine Thursday but got it all wrong.

Whether Madeleine was there...whether the McCanns were there ...whether Jane and Rachael were there is anyone's guess.

Regarding the photo and why I believe it was taken another day at least mid afternoon or later.

I have always thought the picture was taken approximately central in the third photo, but if one looks at the location of the stone (seen to the right of Madeleine) and the proximity of the tree and the sunshade they would have needed to be further to the right (next to the marker that is next to Amelie )

The marker is shown in the second photo

Comparing different pictures from the poolside it appears to me that they were facing closer to west and therefore the shadows may have been from later in the day than the luchtime claim.

Midday sun (south) should have been close to the direction Madeleine is facing.

The shadows appear to be coming from high in the sky closer to the left hand side (Left/West would be where the sun sets at 8.20pm)

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by Advocatus 19.01.12 4:34

Hi HiDeHo!

I sound like a yodeller!!! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Checking out your own link for the first time, couple of things

Gerry's shorts worn in the playground appear to be the same ones worn by the pool.

Gerry's Tshirt on the bus appears to be the same one worn by the pool

I don't think it is the same t-shirt, as on the bus, the pool t-shirt is a lot looser, on the right hand upper arm? I may be wrong, but that's what I see.

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As a guy, I hate t-shirts anyway, so I kinda notice how long/loose t-shirt sleeves are..., if that makes sense... I prefer loosey-goosey! In the left picture of the pair you have, the right hand upper arm of Gerry is a lot tighter and higher than the pool photo. I have no idea if this is useful or not. For some weird reason the left hand arms in both photos look similar - I am looking at the end of the t-shirt to the 45 degree elbow...

I'm sure this has been asked before, but has anyone done a mega pixel blow up of Gerry's shades? His left lens from his POV should show the 2 kids reflected in it, very bottom left hand corner, from HIS point of view (POV)...

I don't have photoshop, but if I did, I'd start looking at ALL reflections in ALL photos, and see what you see in reflections. If you don't see nuttin', where something should be, even if way small and distorted (i.e. a chrome motorcycle headlamp) you may have skullduggery going on, photoshopping...

I mean reflections from windows, chrome, mirrors, water, whatever - I'm sure this has been done by now, I don't know.

I use ebay a lot, and you would be surprised what you see in the reflections of folks selling shiny stuff - lol~ motorcycles, cars etc! So I am careful when I photo objects in ebay to eliminate all reflections, it just makes things a lot cleaner. I don't want to expose my rippling 6-pack to just anyone! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by **HiDeHo** 19.01.12 5:08

Advocatus wrote:Hi HiDeHo!

I sound like a yodeller!!! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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I had no intention of starting this thread to become another discussion on it being a fake or whether it was taken at the same time as the playground pics, (which have strange shadows )

My thoughts are that the location of the photo was further around the pool than I originally thought and therefore they were looking closer to the west, making it later in the day than 2.29pm.

I am suggesting, according to the shadows, that it may have been taken later in the afternoon, perhaps on Monday when she wasn't in the creche after 3.30pm (and as I recall, the twins were not signed out so they could have left at any time)

by jd 19.01.12 11:18

I think it was taken on their first day there, mid/late in the afternoon after they arrived on the 28th...why am I saying this for, this picture wasn't on the photos the PJ retrieved from their camera

by finch 19.01.12 11:20

jd wrote:I think it was taken on their first day there, mid/late in the afternoon after they arrived on the 28th...why am I saying this for, this picture wasn't on the photos the PJ retrieved from their camera

I don't understand jd. If they took it the first day, wouldn't it have been on the camera too?

by jd 19.01.12 11:31

finch wrote:
jd wrote:I think it was taken on their first day there, mid/late in the afternoon after they arrived on the 28th...why am I saying this for, this picture wasn't on the photos the PJ retrieved from their camera

I don't understand jd. If they took it the first day, wouldn't it have been on the camera too?

exactly finch!

And, the photo is released 3 weeks later after gerry returns from the UK, on a mission as quoted by philomena was to go through all the pictures and videos from the past 3 years....then presto! he returns and we get the poolside pic, followed up 2 days later with the airport bus video....in both gerry appears to be wearing the same tshirt to try and connect these 2 releases

by Praia 19.01.12 14:00

The weather that week simply was nt hot enough to make McCann sweat like that. The light looks like high summer.
The airport video is strange, I don't believe it is Faro. I was on those buse umpteen times and none were laid out like that. Others agree. Secondly, if they had just landed the prams would be down. They would be waiting for them when they disembark but would not be put up til the terminal. The buses are always tight for space on disembark.
It looks like they are going out to a plane but people who travel East Midlands say you walk out to the plane.

by **tigger** 19.01.12 16:49

jd wrote:
finch wrote:
jd wrote:I think it was taken on their first day there, mid/late in the afternoon after they arrived on the 28th...why am I saying this for, this picture wasn't on the photos the PJ retrieved from their camera

I don't understand jd. If they took it the first day, wouldn't it have been on the camera too?

exactly finch!

And, the photo is released 3 weeks later after gerry returns from the UK, on a mission as quoted by philomena was to go through all the pictures and videos from the past 3 years....then presto! he returns and we get the poolside pic, followed up 2 days later with the airport bus video....in both gerry appears to be wearing the same tshirt to try and connect these 2 releases

Surely, if it wasn't on the camera and there seems to be enough evidence for that, then the photograph must date from before the 28th April 2007. Weather wise, I'd expect it to be even more unlikely that it was then taken even that year, so then we are looking for sufficiently sunny days in 2006. September/October? could still be warm enough. Imo Maddie will then look the right age. 3.5sh.
Alternative explanation otherwise has to be photoshopping, Gerry's sunglasses are reflecting the poolside vertically, don't understand that, I do feel the line in Maddie's neck is a little too far (crease from turning doesn't go so far normally). Amelie's arm is partly missing (really not a wide sleeve!) and a bit of blurring (corrective pixelling) is going on in that area. I believe a professional has looked at it and it's on the photographs topic.
Whoever was in that photograph originally, it's not on the camera and there is no way that particular one would have been lost amongst the many that were retrieved from the memory. I wonder, was the tennis photograph on it? Because someone has pointed out that there is no such tennis surface at OC.
If Gerry was in that photograph and possibly also Maddie, then it would make sense to paste Amelie in and would explain her missing arm. Amelie is the right size there for 2007, Maddie is more 2006 and Gerry is his usual self but with some really weird sunglasses.
God, TM must love this stuff when they read it!.

by jd 19.01.12 17:09

The playground ones are on there and I am sure I have seen the tennis ball girl one on there too, but never this pool one ever. Just a long distance photo of the pool

Ive seen the tennis court theory about the surface but from what I have investigated it does look to be the same surface to me. I suspect the tennis ball girl is the sub

by **HiDeHo** 19.01.12 17:31

I am still looking towards a time it could have been taken during that week.

I am working on a holiday timeline video including weather etc, unfortunately only from Faro (approx 100kms away) but if that is any indication the temps were around 20c and clear on Saturday/Sun/Monday.

Kate claims she went into the pool with Madeleine after their arrival on Saturday. None of the others seem to claim this, not even Gerry.

They arrived about 3.00pm and went to a meeting at tapas at about 4.30pm so there MAY have been time to sit by the pool but Gerrys colour does not seem probable at that point. However, I will continue to look for other possible times.

I don't think the sun would be so high after High tea, though its always possible it was during lunch Sunday/Monday/Tuesday

SUNDAY APRIL 29
Madeleine McCann AM Amelie & Sean	9.45 ?	KM ?	12.15 ?	GM ?
Madeleine McCann PM Amelie & Sean Ella O'Brien	2.45 2.25 2.45?	GM KM -	5.30 5.30 3.00(30)	GM GM ROB?
MONDAY April 30th
Ella O'Brien AM Madeleine McCann Amelie & Sean Lily	9.15 9.30 9.20 9.?	ROB GM ? DP	12.35 12.10 12.15 12.45	?? GM GM DP
Madeleine McCann PM Amelie & Sean Ella O'Brien Lily xxxx	3.15 3.25 4.00 xxxx	KM ? ROB xxxx	3.30 ? time XXXX xxxx	KM ? sig XXX xxxx
TUESDAY May 1st
Ella O'Brien AM Madeleine McCann Amelie & Sean Lily	9.00 9.30 9.20 9.?	ROB GM GM ??	xxxx 12.20 12.20 12.20	xxxx GM KM ??
Madeleine McCann PM Ella O'Brien Amelie & Sean Lily xx	2.30 2.30 2.30 xxxx	GM CAT KM xxxx	xxxxx 5.30 5.20 xxxx	xxxxx ROB KM xxxx
WEDNESDAY May 2nd
Ella O'Brien AM Madeleine McCann Amelie & Sean	9.30 9(30) 9.10	ROB GM GM	12.30 1230 12 25	ROB CAT KM
Ella O'Brien PM Madeleine McCann Amelie & Sean Lily xxxx	2.30 2.45 2.40 xxxx	ROB KM KM xxxx	5.30 5.30 5.20 xxxx	ROB KHealy GM xxxx
THURSDAY May 3rd
Madeleine McCann AM Ella O'Brien Amelie & Sean?	9.10 9.50 ???	GM ROB ???	12.25 12.30 ???	KM ROB ???

Ella O'Brien PM Madeleine McCann Amelie & Sean Lily	2.30 2.50 2.45 XXX	ROB KM KM XXX	4.30 5.30 5.25 XXX	CAT KM KM XXX
FRIDAY May 4th
Amelie & Sean AM Lily	10.10 10.10	DW DW	12 20 12 20	FP FP

by Praia 19.01.12 17:35

The weather can vary alot between Faro and Luz. It's always cooler and windier in the west. Can be dull in Luz, bright in Faro.

by Praia 19.01.12 17:37

The sun is too high for later in the day.

by **tigger** 19.01.12 17:43

Sorry, tried to insert image. will now go and read instructions. splat

by Advocatus 19.01.12 18:07

tigger wrote:
jd wrote:
finch wrote:
jd wrote:I think it was taken on their first day there, mid/late in the afternoon after they arrived on the 28th...why am I saying this for, this picture wasn't on the photos the PJ retrieved from their camera

I don't understand jd. If they took it the first day, wouldn't it have been on the camera too?

exactly finch!

And, the photo is released 3 weeks later after gerry returns from the UK, on a mission as quoted by philomena was to go through all the pictures and videos from the past 3 years....then presto! he returns and we get the poolside pic, followed up 2 days later with the airport bus video....in both gerry appears to be wearing the same tshirt to try and connect these 2 releases

Surely, if it wasn't on the camera and there seems to be enough evidence for that, then the photograph must date from before the 28th April 2007. Weather wise, I'd expect it to be even more unlikely that it was then taken even that year, so then we are looking for sufficiently sunny days in 2006. September/October? could still be warm enough. Imo Maddie will then look the right age. 3.5sh.
Alternative explanation otherwise has to be photoshopping, Gerry's sunglasses are reflecting the poolside vertically, don't understand that, I do feel the line in Maddie's neck is a little too far (crease from turning doesn't go so far normally). Amelie's arm is partly missing (really not a wide sleeve!) and a bit of blurring (corrective pixelling) is going on in that area. I believe a professional has looked at it and it's on the photographs topic.
Whoever was in that photograph originally, it's not on the camera and there is no way that particular one would have been lost amongst the many that were retrieved from the memory. I wonder, was the tennis photograph on it? Because someone has pointed out that there is no such tennis surface at OC.
If Gerry was in that photograph and possibly also Maddie, then it would make sense to paste Amelie in and would explain her missing arm. Amelie is the right size there for 2007, Maddie is more 2006 and Gerry is his usual self but with some really weird sunglasses.
God, TM must love this stuff when they read it!.

I wonder, was the tennis photograph on it? Because someone has pointed out that there is no such tennis surface at OC.

That sounds like very firm evidence of skullduggery, if true?

by Advocatus 19.01.12 18:15

Hi Praia

The weather that week simply was nt hot enough to make McCann sweat like that. The light looks like high summer.

It does look rather hot, Kate writes in her bewk the water in the pool was freezing and the weather was not very good.

The airport video is strange, I don't believe it is Faro. I was on those buse umpteen times and none were laid out like that. Others agree.

Excellent. I've also heard others say on various fora that that BUS video (supposed to have been taken by D Payne) was from another holiday - Majorca? The wedding in Italy? Where else?

Secondly, if they had just landed the prams would be down. They would be waiting for them when they disembark but would not be put up til the terminal.

Another excellent point!

The buses are always tight for space on disembark.
It looks like they are going out to a plane but people who travel East Midlands say you walk out to the plane.

Curiouser and curiouser...

And just why is the wee man swearing in front of women and children? Is he always like this?

by **HiDeHo** 19.01.12 18:37

Could the video have been taken in the 'people carrier' taking them from the airport to Ocean Club?

From Kate's book:

We found the people carrier plus driver we’d pre-booked to meet us at Faro airport and arrived at the Ocean Club resort in the village of Praia da Luz at around three.

by Praia 19.01.12 18:43

No.. On the video the children are not strapped in, it's an airport bus.

by jd 20.01.12 0:36

Kate claims she went into the pool with Madeleine after their arrival on Saturday.

Putting aside all their words (lies) as this is what they are trying to do, deflect everyone from the truth....When you go to a sunny resort like PDL, Spain whatever...what is the one of the first things you do, if not the very first thing.......go to the pool!!!

We all do it and we always will do as Brits. Its the first sign of paradise the pool or beach and why we go there

by jd 20.01.12 0:39

Because someone has pointed out that there is no such tennis surface at OC

.

I don't think there is any issue with the tennis court surface, looks to be legit to me. The question is who is the girl in the tennis ball photo? real or head photoshopped in...not the same girl as the pool picture in the slightest , look at the body for starters.... its totally different

by **tigger** 20.01.12 8:38

jd wrote:
Because someone has pointed out that there is no such tennis surface at OC
.

I don't think there is any issue with the tennis court surface, looks to be legit to me. The question is who is the girl in the tennis ball photo? real or head photoshopped in...not the same girl as the pool picture in the slightest , look at the body for starters.... its totally different

Lanky is the word that comes to mind with the tennis girl, she is at least 114 cm tall, not that I believe Maddie was actually 90 cm, at her age that was off the chart!
Another poster suggested the sub was smaller and younger, therefore the photos of a two year old Maddie and the 90 cm description.

by Guest 20.01.12 9:38

Praia wrote:No.. On the video the children are not strapped in, it's an airport bus.

That's what I thought it was, a bus used to transfer customers from the airport lounge directly and safely to the plane.

by Praia 20.01.12 10:07

Yes but at the time the clip was released I did not recognise the layout of that bus. Others say at East Midlands passengers walk to the planes.

by Guest 20.01.12 10:46

But what if it was a private charter flight from a different section of the airfield?

by Praia 20.01.12 10:48

From East Midlands? No idea. Someone who frequents it may know.

by jd 20.01.12 10:56

There is someone on here that knows East Midlands airport very well and is a frequent flyer from there. I think she said a few weeks back that she never took an airport bus but can't quite remember the words or what topic this was in