Re: The grey stone slab

by Guest 28.09.11 9:04

Indeed the phrase does refer to the ferryman Charon.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/58/messages/1694.html

There was a TV series in the late 1970s called "Who pays the ferryman?" Here's a link to the very distinctive theme tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGGtSkyasNA

I'd never heard about pennies actually being put on the eyes of a dead person until some years ago I heard a woman saying that she'd seen them on the eyes of her husband in a mortuary. I must admit that I thought she was hallucinating but now I'm not so sure.

by rainbow-fairy 28.09.11 9:29

Marian wrote:Indeed the phrase does refer to the ferryman Charon.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/58/messages/1694.html

There was a TV series in the late 1970s called "Who pays the ferryman?" Here's a link to the very distinctive theme tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGGtSkyasNA

I'd never heard about pennies actually being put on the eyes of a dead person until some years ago I heard a woman saying that she'd seen them on the eyes of her husband in a mortuary. I must admit that I thought she was hallucinating but now I'm not so sure.

Ah, thanks, Marian, I'm following it all now. I vaguely remember that show from when I was small....

I'm not sure which bit lj was referring to back on p1 when they asked 'is it a figure of speech?' Lj alkso brought up the bit about pennies on eyes, I'm still a bit lost about that - if anyone can help it would be grand!

by russiandoll 28.09.11 14:30

yes a very cinematic image and stone slabs feature heavily in harry potter strangely enough [ I thought they might ,I checked and yes they do ]. Harry was loved by Maddie according to her mother. dont think I can copy paste and post on here so be patient, I might have to type some quotes from the books. only a few as there is one heck of a lot.

can i put a link on here? last time i tried I got an error message .

by russiandoll 28.09.11 14:45

Here is just one of many references to stone slabs in the Potter books:

" Harry hates the way he sits on the cold grey slab attached to the cement wall. He knows he has nothing more than a thin wool blanket to ward off tghe chill at night"

I think Kate in her traumatised state is mixing her imagery, slabs of rock on the beach, Harry Potter, mortuary slabs and those associated with church interiors and tombstones.
It is all so very sad and strange.

by rainbow-fairy 28.09.11 17:21

russiandoll wrote:Here is just one of many references to stone slabs in the Potter books:

" Harry hates the way he sits on the cold grey slab attached to the cement wall. He knows he has nothing more than a thin wool blanket to ward off tghe chill at night"

I think Kate in her traumatised state is mixing her imagery, slabs of rock on the beach, Harry Potter, mortuary slabs and those associated with church interiors and tombstones.
It is all so very sad and strange.

Thanks russiandoll, that's interesting, especially given the 'claimed/alleged' JK Rowling link. It's certainly sad and strange that's for sure. Strange is a world where you imagine your child is in the land of myth and legend, yet it's also strange to believe on one hand your child has been taken by a paedophile and yet being treated like a princess!
It's something to think on, but in my gut I still think it's something K actually saw rather than imagined?

by russiandoll 28.09.11 18:53

its very difficult to distinguish whats imagined from whats rel and whatever happened, Kate imo has been genuinely traumatised. Even more chilling or rather harrowing, is the recollection of a dream which, if recalling reality rather than hallucination,is very disturbing and upsetting. This was for me the most authentic and affecting piece of her book and really moved me.

by rainbow-fairy 28.09.11 21:02

russiandoll wrote:its very difficult to distinguish whats imagined from whats rel and whatever happened, Kate imo has been genuinely traumatised. Even more chilling or rather harrowing, is the recollection of a dream which, if recalling reality rather than hallucination,is very disturbing and upsetting. This was for me the most authentic and affecting piece of her book and really moved me.

Hey russiandoll, could you give me a page number, please? I don't own the book and only read bits here and there when I can so I may have missed the bit you describe.
Have to say though, so far the only way the book has 'moved' me is to the bathroom in a hurry to be sick! I'm NOT a heartless person, many books I read sobbing so much I can't see the words but this one, no. The 'emotion' feels fake, like someone who feels they 'should' express something rather than they 'feel it'. Still, we're all different. It makes the world go round!

by russiandoll 29.09.11 14:28

hello there .the page ref 229-230 end chapter 15. extremely moving account of a dream where she holds her child.

by rainbow-fairy 29.09.11 14:44

russiandoll wrote:hello there .the page ref 229-230 end chapter 15. extremely moving account of a dream where she holds her child.

Ah, thank you russiandoll, I'm with you now. I HAVE read that, and it's actually another part I found 'odd' and intend to start a topic on!
It IS the one where she is saying stuff like 'Please don't leave, stay with Mummy, hold on sweetheart, I'd been with her and then she was gone. Again' isn't it?

When I read this, it put me in mind of a critical medical situation, the kind of words you'd say at the bedside of a relative who's gone into arrest and is being desperately resuscitated? Once again, it seemed to me she was describing an event with words befitting a totally different scenario (again, something I think possibly K witnessed, not dreamt)

I do agree, whatever the origin of these thoughts are, with you that Kate is traumatised and mentally not well. For her own sake and that of her lost daughter, I say she needs to 'fess up.

ETA: the above would make sense of Rachel Oldfield/Mampilly's odd statement 'there were medics in the group who would know how to resuscitate a child'.

by **PeterMac** 30.09.11 9:16

rainbow-fairy wrote: I do agree, whatever the origin of these thoughts are, with you that Kate is traumatised and mentally not well. For her own sake and that of her lost daughter, I say she needs to 'fess up.

Interestingly I found this part of Pat Brown's book compelling -
" The emotions of Kate and Gerry McCann were real. They were real but they were the emotions of a scared person, Kate, at 10 pm, and two devastated parents later that night who knew their child was dead and not coming home."
Clearly if the parents knew she was dead they would be devastated, however difficult a child she had been during her short life.
The stress of having to pretend for the last four years might easily drive someone into mental difficulties.

by rainbow-fairy 30.09.11 9:31

PeterMac wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote: I do agree, whatever the origin of these thoughts are, with you that Kate is traumatised and mentally not well. For her own sake and that of her lost daughter, I say she needs to 'fess up.
Interestingly I found this part of Pat Brown's book compelling -
" The emotions of Kate and Gerry McCann were real. They were real but they were the emotions of a scared person, Kate, at 10 pm, and two devastated parents later that night who knew their child was dead and not coming home."
Clearly if the parents knew she was dead they would be devastated, however difficult a child she had been during her short life.
The stress of having to pretend for the last four years might easily drive someone into mental difficulties.

Exactly, PeterMac! It's not that they show NO emotion, it's just the 'wrong' one for the 'situation they find themselves in'(sorry, couldn't resist!)
Now for GRIEVING parents their reaction would be authentic. Missing child? No.
In that sense, had they not lied, covered up and made money I could have been really sympathetic. My youngest son is 9 and severely autistic, hence very hard work, yet I can't even begin to imagine my life without him. Coincidentally, last year he wandered off at Colchester Zoo - he's fast as lightning - and it was pandemonium! Running round just screaming his name. Luckily my sister's hubby found him happily watching the shark tunnel. But no, I couldn't stand still and not look - and neither was I unable to be consoled, throwing myself down like a praying Arab either.

by Gillyspot 30.09.11 9:34

Two GNR officers had their doubts about the McCanns and T7 also right from the start

"One said of the McCann group: "They were upset, panicking, wideeyed, the usual, but there was something else.
"They were scared - not the usual scared, they were jumpy, nervous. It wasn't normal. None of it was normal.
"They'd all been drinking. They weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. They were hard to get sense out of."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491940/Police-looked-Madeleine-crime-scene-trampled-circus-people.html#ixzz1ZQHPISbD

by rainbow-fairy 30.09.11 9:49

Gillyspot wrote:Two GNR officers had their doubts about the McCanns and T7 also right from the start

"One said of the McCann group: "They were upset, panicking, wideeyed, the usual, but there was something else.
"They were scared - not the usual scared, they were jumpy, nervous. It wasn't normal. None of it was normal.
"They'd all been drinking. They weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. They were hard to get sense out of."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491940/Police-looked-Madeleine-crime-scene-trampled-circus-people.html#ixzz1ZQHPISbD

Thanks, Gillyspot. BIB - could this be another way of adding confusion and evading justice? Pretty good cover eh, except - I remember years back (I no longer drink) being quite drunk when something bad happened to me and I've never sobered up so fast in my life! I think it must be the adrenaline over-rides the alcohol. Yes, I think it was greatly in their interest (AT THE TIME) to appear inebriated and confused. YET NOW, K n G will try and downplay the amount they drank - except oops, the 14 bottles of house wine are down on the Tapas records! Busted...
Yep, it's no wonder why they tried to discredit the GNR and PJ from the start is it...

by Guest 30.09.11 11:36

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:Two GNR officers had their doubts about the McCanns and T7 also right from the start

"One said of the McCann group: "They were upset, panicking, wideeyed, the usual, but there was something else.
"They were scared - not the usual scared, they were jumpy, nervous. It wasn't normal. None of it was normal.
"They'd all been drinking. They weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. They were hard to get sense out of."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491940/Police-looked-Madeleine-crime-scene-trampled-circus-people.html#ixzz1ZQHPISbD

Thanks, Gillyspot. BIB - could this be another way of adding confusion and evading justice? Pretty good cover eh, except - I remember years back (I no longer drink) being quite drunk when something bad happened to me and I've never sobered up so fast in my life! I think it must be the adrenaline over-rides the alcohol. Yes, I think it was greatly in their interest (AT THE TIME) to appear inebriated and confused. YET NOW, K n G will try and downplay the amount they drank - except oops, the 14 bottles of house wine are down on the Tapas records! Busted...
Yep, it's no wonder why they tried to discredit the GNR and PJ from the start is it...

Did they order 14 bottles of wine that night? IF thats the case, how the hell did they manage to finish them of in a hour/ a hour and half ? I never heard this before, about the wine ordered...

by rainbow-fairy 30.09.11 11:49

Moa wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:Two GNR officers had their doubts about the McCanns and T7 also right from the start

"One said of the McCann group: "They were upset, panicking, wideeyed, the usual, but there was something else.
"They were scared - not the usual scared, they were jumpy, nervous. It wasn't normal. None of it was normal.
"They'd all been drinking. They weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. They were hard to get sense out of."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491940/Police-looked-Madeleine-crime-scene-trampled-circus-people.html#ixzz1ZQHPISbD

Thanks, Gillyspot. BIB - could this be another way of adding confusion and evading justice? Pretty good cover eh, except - I remember years back (I no longer drink) being quite drunk when something bad happened to me and I've never sobered up so fast in my life! I think it must be the adrenaline over-rides the alcohol. Yes, I think it was greatly in their interest (AT THE TIME) to appear inebriated and confused. YET NOW, K n G will try and downplay the amount they drank - except oops, the 14 bottles of house wine are down on the Tapas records! Busted...
Yep, it's no wonder why they tried to discredit the GNR and PJ from the start is it...

Did they order 14 bottles of wine that night? IF that's the case, how the hell did they manage to finish them of in a hour/ a hour and half ? I never heard this before, about the wine ordered...

Moa, the link was on another topic I was reading the other day - IIRC it was quite widely reported at the time also.
Obviously, I don't know if they were small or regular bottles, but 14 works out at nearly a bottle and a half each, if everyone drank the same - not totally excessive in an hour and a half, I wouldn't think? Also, I don't know if ALL the bottles were finished? I'll have to have a look round and see if I can find out - thanks for bringing that up :-)

by Guest 30.09.11 12:54

See the topic "14 bottles of wine" for more information.

by Guest 30.09.11 13:15

Thanks, will do :)

by Daisy 19.10.11 13:56

I'm not suggesting this is relevant but it's nearly Halloween so I thought a bit of spookiness wouldn't go amiss. I found this bit of info whilst researching the Donegal easter break.

The McCann clan reportedly stayed in place called Dungloe. Here's what Dungloe apparently means:

"There is a river at the bottom of the town and years ago the only
crossing was over a grey granite slab lying in the riverbed, hence the Irish name of the town, an Clochán Liath, which means the grey stepping-stone" affraid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungloe

by Guest 19.10.11 14:01

Daisy wrote:I'm not suggesting this is relevant but it's nearly Halloween so I thought a bit of spookiness wouldn't go amiss. I found this bit of info whilst researching the Donegal easter break.

The McCann clan reportedly stayed in place called Dungloe. Here's what Dungloe apparently means:

"There is a river at the bottom of the town and years ago the only
crossing was over a grey granite slab lying in the riverbed, hence the Irish name of the town, an Clochán Liath, which means the grey stepping-stone"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungloe

by rainbow-fairy 19.10.11 17:23

Daisy wrote:I'm not suggesting this is relevant but it's nearly Halloween so I thought a bit of spookiness wouldn't go amiss. I found this bit of info whilst researching the Donegal easter break.

The McCann clan reportedly stayed in place called Dungloe. Here's what Dungloe apparently means:

"There is a river at the bottom of the town and years ago the only
crossing was over a grey granite slab lying in the riverbed, hence the Irish name of the town, an Clochán Liath, which means the grey stepping-stone"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungloe

Wooooo-oooh *clanking chains* ;-)
Actually found that interesting - thanks Daisy!

by butterfly23 05.10.12 19:08

...reading the book- i see that a day or 2 after the ''abduction'' kate notices her arms are all briused etc.... & is told that when finding maddie missing she was hitting the veranda or something at some point......never heard anything about this til now- are there any pics of these bruises- is it truly how she recieved them- who witnessed it happening...? could they have happened some other way ???????????

by jd 05.10.12 21:21

butterfly23 wrote:...reading the book- i see that a day or 2 after the ''abduction'' kate notices her arms are all briused etc.... & is told that when finding maddie missing she was hitting the veranda or something at some point......never heard anything about this til now- are there any pics of these bruises- is it truly how she recieved them- who witnessed it happening...? could they have happened some other way ???????????

The grey stone slab - Page 2 40ee0x330SHEsLOVELY

The grey stone slab - Page 2 ZzkatereddressdBruise

by butterfly23 06.10.12 1:24

thankyou- been looking at pics and yes, she has bad bruises- around her wrist area- unless she was karate chopping this veranda it seems odd the bruises would be in that area- surely they would be on her hands ....????????????...another story which it seems was made up........!!!!!!!!

by jd 06.10.12 2:00

Its interesting that the bruising are on 'both' wrists and are also at the same point on both

There is a bit more here from some articles:

By Dr Martin Roberts
12 September 2012

DEFENSIVE WOUNDS

On p.74 of her book, 'Madeleine,' Kate McCann describes how she was...'hitting out at things, banging (her) fists on the metal railing of the veranda, trying to expel the intolerable pain inside.' This is no doubt the same railing atop the same veranda at which Kate was afterwards pictured coyly holding Madeleine's 'cuddle-cat' where the media photographers stationed below could see it. It's about two inches wide and appears more wooden than metallic, but that's beside the point, which is that Kate unswervingly describes herself as hitting the limited target area with her fists. Twenty pages (less than 24 hours) later and, for the first time, Kate 'noticed the ugly purple, blue and black bruises on the sides of (her) hands, wrists and forearms...Gerry reminded her of how she'd been 'banging her clenched fists on the veranda railing and the apartment walls the night before.' She could 'only vaguely remember it.' Well you wouldn't, would you? After all, twenty pages is history.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html

------

Kate McCann was frightened and the sensation of not being able to do anything made her angry, howling and punching and kicking walls – the reason why she was covered in bruises the next day, according to the statement of Fiona Payne.

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com.es/2008/08/sleeping-twins.html

--------

We ALL saw the bruises on Kate McCann after Maddies death, Kate in her book tried to explain them away claiming she had kicked and punched the wall even smashed a bed but there was not one single bruise or swelling on Kate's knuckles, the bruises were much further up on her arms as though she had been gripped by force, restrained even !

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/mccann.html

by Guest 06.10.12 9:25

Gillyspot wrote:Two GNR officers had their doubts about the McCanns and T7 also right from the start

"One said of the McCann group: "They were upset, panicking, wideeyed, the usual, but there was something else.
"They were scared - not the usual scared, they were jumpy, nervous. It wasn't normal. None of it was normal.
"They'd all been drinking. They weren't falling over but it was hard to deal with them. They were hard to get sense out of."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491940/Police-looked-Madeleine-crime-scene-trampled-circus-people.html#ixzz1ZQHPISbD

Uppers?