Re: The creche enquiry

by HelenMeg 13.01.14 22:09

Agree with these posts, however, what sometimes surprises me a little is that Kate has chosen not to modify her fairly strong Liverpudlian accent. Its interesting to imagine
how she would be without the influence of Gerry. As an individual, I can imagine she would have been quite an empathetic and effective GP. She is naturally an attractive looking female albeit
her looks have diminished over recent years probably through stress. This whole process since the faked abduction has given them a warped sense of status, bringing them into frequent contact with
popes, politicians, TV presenters. The fund has given them access to luxurious hotels and 5 * treatment. For anyone, it is not easy to give all of that up and become non-entities once again.
They have been given public stage at many high profile events which they appear to enjoy. How can they settle back into a hum drum existence and become 'just parents'.
I find Gerry vile and sense that he has risen above his background never to return. As with the Blairs, this couple need 'to be loved and admired' - need constant positive reinforcement, and surround themselves by those that provide it, paid for by the fund. They are a phenomenon of our times. We loathe them yet their extraordinary behaviours compel us to observe them. I just wish we couold observe them behind bars.

by Halfwit 14.01.14 0:07

HelenMeg wrote:Agree with these posts, however, what sometimes surprises me a little is that Kate has chosen not to modify her fairly strong Liverpudlian accent. Its interesting to imagine
how she would be without the influence of Gerry. As an individual, I can imagine she would have been quite an empathetic and effective GP. She is naturally an attractive looking female albeit
her looks have diminished over recent years probably through stress. This whole process since the faked abduction has given them a warped sense of status, bringing them into frequent contact with
popes, politicians, TV presenters. The fund has given them access to luxurious hotels and 5 * treatment. For anyone, it is not easy to give all of that up and become non-entities once again.
They have been given public stage at many high profile events which they appear to enjoy. How can they settle back into a hum drum existence and become 'just parents'.
I find Gerry vile and sense that he has risen above his background never to return. As with the Blairs, this couple need 'to be loved and admired' - need constant positive reinforcement, and surround themselves by those that provide it, paid for by the fund. They are a phenomenon of our times. We loathe them yet their extraordinary behaviours compel us to observe them. I just wish we couold observe them behind bars.

I agree with so much of what you say.

I've often wondered how different Kate would have been if Gerry hadn't entered her life. She was ''Hotlips Healy'', a nickname that's always suggested to me that she was fun - enjoyed her life and partied. Good for her.

Then along came that controller and sucked the fun out of her.

I'm not sure I agree with you about the 5* lifestyle taking over. I've enjoyed it in my career but I always knew it was a perk. I knew it would end.

I don't get the impression that Kate is finding pleasure in life at all - except - except...

the football pics.

If I knew nothing about them I would comment that they were lovely pics of a happy couple utterly and totally in love and in the moment.

Confused.com.

by HelenMeg 06.03.14 22:56

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by whatliesbehindthesofa 07.03.14 12:45

tigger wrote:
How come Kate signed sometimes as Healy and other times as McCann? In view of her statement in the book that she was Healy before the 4th May and McCann thereafter. Seems to be important to her so she would not have made the mistake of signing McCann before that date - only solution is that someone else signed for her.

It's not the only solution.

The facts are that Kate always signed under her married name except for one occasion, 17:30 on May 2nd. She signed her married name in the morning, and her maiden name in the afternoon.

I don't believe that she did it by accident, as this was the one and only time she signed her maiden name. She didn't 'flip back and forth', she did it once.

It speaks volumes to me. It says to me that at that point in time, late afternoon on the 2nd, Kate thought of herself as 'Healy', not 'McCann', and that usually happens when married couples fall out. I've been there :) Aditionally, I believe that she opens her book with that statement that she was Healy before the 4th, to make that signature look less suspicious. To stop us from wondering if Kate and Gerry had fallen out on the afternoon of the 2nd.

The solution that the McCanns had fallen out that afternoon is a far simpler solution than that of somebody else forging Kate's signature, which I do not believe to be forged, having compared it with other sources.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 07.03.14 12:52

The Naylor substitute thing .. really?

I've scrutinised the creche records, and there is very little connection between the Naylor signings and the McCann signings that I can see. Naylor's handwriting is very similar to Gerry's, but there are differences, and Gerry uses less weight on the pen than Naylor does. Naylor regularly filled in his name by mistake in the 'Child Name' column. Gerry didn't make this mistake. Both Naylor's and Gerry's handwriting are incredibly similar to mine - if I had signed those creche sheets, people would probably be pointing the finger at me.

I see absolutely nothing there to indicate that there is anything strange about the Naylor entries in the creche records.

by Hicks 07.03.14 14:30

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
tigger wrote:
How come Kate signed sometimes as Healy and other times as McCann? In view of her statement in the book that she was Healy before the 4th May and McCann thereafter. Seems to be important to her so she would not have made the mistake of signing McCann before that date - only solution is that someone else signed for her.

It's not the only solution.

The facts are that Kate always signed under her married name except for one occasion, 17:30 on May 2nd. She signed her married name in the morning, and her maiden name in the afternoon.

I don't believe that she did it by accident, as this was the one and only time she signed her maiden name. She didn't 'flip back and forth', she did it once.

It speaks volumes to me. It says to me that at that point in time, late afternoon on the 2nd, Kate thought of herself as 'Healy', not 'McCann', and that usually happens when married couples fall out. I've been there :) Aditionally, I believe that she opens her book with that statement that she was Healy before the 4th, to make that signature look less suspicious. To stop us from wondering if Kate and Gerry had fallen out on the afternoon of the 2nd.

The solution that the McCanns had fallen out that afternoon is a far simpler solution than that of somebody else forging Kate's signature, which I do not believe to be forged, having compared it with other sources.

Yes, that would explain why-if true- Kate slept in the children's room that night.

Another lie ...Kate slept in the children's room that night because Gerry suddenly said, 'I'm off' when they were with the others at Tapas bar in the OC. There is a vid where Kate talks about this. I'll try and find it.
They had then fallen out sometime during the day perhaps. Interesting to build in this maybe?

by Briohazard 13.03.14 6:35

I was just going through the crèche sheets and noticed once she signed her name as K M McCann

Rachael signed her rogatory (?) statement as R M Mampilly.....

by j.rob 13.08.14 19:49

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
tigger wrote:I think the name issue is all about status. Their idols would be Blair and Booth. Very much the way they wanted to go imo.
However catholic Mrs.Blair was, she did as she liked, just like Kate.
Yes, I think the Blairs would have been the ones they wanted to emulate at the time.

Off Topic, but the other night I was so bored that I watched "Confessions Of A Holiday Camp" on Youtube. Now, I've long thought that Tony Blair was the worst man who ever lived, but I've decided now that his father in law runs him pretty close. What a palpably odious cretin, and so menacing in a way that I sensed wasn't just an act. And then consider what he unleashed upon the World....

What a hellish couple. Blair/Booth and McCann/Healy deserve each other's eternal company.

Ha! Yes. All the phony religious stuff. Tony and Cheri were probably the Mcs idols - rather like Ken and Barbie. A sort of 'cut and paste' ghastly couple.

B -liar these days looks positively insane, imo.

by j.rob 27.08.14 15:48

ROSA wrote:T7 and Naylor put there necks on the line for K&G help cover the truth but why do a group of adults do this there must be a common factor what did they do to Madeleine was she abused by all these people was she there toy to play with did they do tghings to there toy for pleasure but go to far then have to kill her p129?

Unfortunately I have been thinking along these kind of lines for some time.

Some people are just evil.

by j.rob 27.08.14 16:09

ROSA wrote:They lied when saying they went to the Millenium the first night because the' Tapas' was closed ( Millenium was part of their 'half board' package deal)
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So desperately sad looking at those children's faces. One with obvious bruises on her face - that must have been so painful. Another looking soooooo sad. So trapped.

Awful.

by j.rob 27.08.14 16:53

Willo wrote:Yes Pauline if the whole thing was premeditated a fluffed line early on could have thrown everything that was meant to follow askew.
The damaged window senario could have been just that, the fact it was still intact might have blown their story. Some, not realising it carried on telling the world that the forced shutters were the escape/entry route before they could be reined in.
Kate could have later, in vain, pushed the window open to support the story.
Did Jez chatting to Gerry stop the shutter being dealt to?
Did a clean up team not arrive forcing Gerry to pass the Smiths carrying his daughter to a place unknown?

No doubt many more reasons could be manufactured to throw a premeditated plan off target.

I think that to give the Tapa's some credit surely they wouldn't keep compounding their mistakes right up to this very day.
I imagine Doctors to be on the whole ordered in their lives and as such would have hatched a far better plan than they did and be more adept in rescuing any fluffed lines than they seem to have been.

So I still go on the unexpected but need to cover up death story. To have such a crap plan it can only been created in a very short space of time and in a hurry. Time delays for notifying police, scrawled timelines, Gerry & Kate with distracting wailing, the trashing of the apartment and of course the blood spots all seems to fit this.

Why would a premeditated act involve the need to leave blood on the wall, floor etc?

Place your bets.

I'm glad I have found this thread! It is a fount of information.

"Did Jez chatting to Gerry stop the shutter being dealt to?"

I doubt very much that Jez and Gerry were having a friendly little chat. I would imagine it was a very animated conversation.

As I have written elsewhere, I believe that herein lies at least some of the answers.

IMO.

by j.rob 27.08.14 17:58

Stewie wrote:
Just been looking around to try and find samples of GM's handwriting to compare to the writing on the creche records.

There is the stickerbook which contains a lot of writing done on 3rd May/4 May and handed to the PJ.

The writing is supposedly Russell's and in the main it does look similar to the writing on the creche sheets for his child in Lobsters. The 3rd May is odd because in the morning, on line 3, underneath the sign in for Madeleine, it looks like Ella is written then crossed out, and Elizabeth Naylor written in instead. It seems that he has a problem with his child's name as it is also written as Emma elsewhere on the creche sheets then crossed out and it's corrected to Ella. Even on the sticker book, there are 2 occasions where Ella is written and crossed out...

On the second page of the sticker book , the name "Gerald" looks like it matches the "Gerald" on the signature on GM's PJ statements so for some reason the second sticker book page is "signed" by GM - some kind of authorisation..

It's a shame there is no police interview with Naylor - then we would be able to see his signature against the creche records...

Anyone know of instances of GM's handwriting?

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Why would Russell and Gerry do these time-lines knowing they are going to be handed to police? They don't even match in all respects - eg: the 9.30pm Matt check?

Surely these are done to pass messages on to someone?

Murat?

by j.rob 27.08.14 21:46

Guest wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Well spotted Stewie [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

These were the movements for all of the adults, so why would a childs name enter into it? Especially when they were all tucked up in their beds allegedly. Not unless they had her on their minds at the time they was writing it, but why?

It is also around the time that a child allegedly was removed from an apartment. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fascinating stuff. I think this time-line is supposed to have been written by Russell?

The first line:

Matt returns 9.00 - 9.05 - listened at all 3.
- all shutters down.

Matt returns - from doing what?? Why not write the time, and then 'Matt check' as is written in most of the other 'checkings'? Cross-referencing with Gerry's time-line, I see that Gerry writes that at this time Matt checked on apartments 5A, 5B and 5D. So, presumably, that is what 'all 3' is supposed to mean in Russell's timeline? Interesting emphasis - particularly in Gerry's timeline - of 'all shutters' down. Surely the relevant shutters are the shutters in the McCann apartment?

Or, perhaps not? Perhaps shutters in apartments 5B (Oldfield's) and 5D (O'Brien and Tanner) are also relevant?

The entry for 9.10pm - 9.15pm is also of interest.

Jerry 9.10 - 9.15 in tv room + all well
? Did he check

Again, as with the first 'check' time, of note is that Jerry is written before the time, unlike the latter entries, where the time is written first (as has been done with all of Gerry's entries on his time-line) . Also of note the name Jerry, rather than Gerry. In Gerry's timeline - (which has the name - GERALD - at the bottom, although, the L is not clearly written, certainly not like the upper case L in the word ALL).

Also somewhat odd, to me, is that Jerry is in the 'tv' room. Although the typewritten entries in the PJ files record the word as 'the' room, it doesn't look like 'the' to me. And, in any case, given that this is a listing with only essential key words included, why would 'the' be included? Why write 'the' room, without defining which room? The bedroom? No, just 'the' room. There are no other 'the' or 'a' words - just the bare essentials. So why 'tv'?

Plus, why, would Russell have written, for the 9.10 - 9.15pm timeline relating to Jerry (supposedly Gerry McCann remember) : 'did HE check'? Gosh, Russell - did it not occur to you to ask Gerry before you helpfully wrote out timelines for police? You know, a really difficult question like: 'Gerry, when you went into your apartment for the 9.10pm, did you actually look into the children's bedroom and see Madeleine?'

Gee - I guess not.

Or perhaps Russell is not asking this question of Gerry but of someone else?!

Thank God he's not my doctor, or any of them for that matter.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

by palm tree 27.08.14 22:17

Also to remember, RO stated that the mcs didn't arrive until 9pm, which is strange IMO

by nglfi 28.08.14 7:29

Could the misspelling of Gerry for Jerry indicate the person who wrote this didn't know Gerry quite as well as they are all making out? As in they didn't realise Gerry was short for Gerald and assumed it was Jerry as in Tom and Jerry. I like to think I know how to spell all of my friends names correctly, particularly seeing as these people are supposedly doctors you would expect a certain level of literacy.

by Latetothecase 28.08.14 10:59

Perhaps it is supposed to say 'Jeremy'?

by palm tree 28.08.14 11:01

Latetothecase wrote:Perhaps it is supposed to say 'Jeremy'?

Ohhh! There's a thought!

by Guest 28.08.14 11:18

Do we know who wrote the note? Only the Paynes knew the McCanns well so any of the others could have been mistaken about the spelling of Gerry.

by j.rob 28.08.14 11:21

Latetothecase wrote:Perhaps it is supposed to say 'Jeremy'?

That is what I am wondering? Surely any of the Tapas would use the abbreviation Gerry for Gerald McCann. That is the name he is know by. Jerry is the common abbreviation for Jeremy. It looks quite different and has different connotations.

by Guest 28.08.14 11:23

By all accounts though, JW was known as Jes or Jez.

by j.rob 28.08.14 11:24

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Do we know who wrote the note? Only the Paynes knew the McCanns well so any of the others could have been mistaken about the spelling of Gerry.

According to the PJ files, the first two Tapas group timelines were written by Russell O'Brien on the ripped off cover of Madeleine's sticker book.

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by j.rob 28.08.14 11:27

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by palm tree 28.08.14 11:30

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:By all accounts though, JW was known as Jes or Jez.

Darn! Although could we now think whoever wrote the timeline, didn't know gm as we are to believe?
IMO
Why the need for surnames on the second timeline? Strange.

by Guest 28.08.14 11:34

It was Russell O'Brien who wrote the timeline (thanks to J Rob for reminding me who it was) and it's my understanding that he didn't know the McCanns as well as the Paynes did.

by nglfi 28.08.14 11:41

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It was Russell O'Brien who wrote the timeline (thanks to J Rob for reminding me who it was) and it's my understanding that he didn't know the McCanns as well as the Paynes did.

Thanks NFWTD, so it was known at the time that he didn't know the McCanns that well. Begs the question why they would entrust him with something so important as timelines. I can't imagine myself getting so involved in a reconstruction like this if I didn't know the people that well, unless of course I also had something to lose by the 'right' sequence of events not being given to the police.

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