Alan D. Elsdon - My Theories

I can't find anything on the forum at the moment about the alleged Sagres visit on 30th April 2007 - hence the reason for my constantly banging on about keeping on topic!  There is a very old thread, resurrected by a new forum member but that's just speculative chit-chat, it's not particularly helpful.  I won't give up, it's there somewhere - when I have time to spare.

Meanwhile, I strongly believe the media coverage at the time to be a by-product of the witness, Nuno Lourenco.  Apologies at the moment for the flimsy source of information but it's all in the PJ files and debated here on CMOMM extensively.  If you enter the name Nuno Lourenco into the forum's search box, all will be revealed!

Meanwhile, lifted from a chronology of events..

Thursday 10th May 2007

Chief Inspector Olegario de Sousa holds a news conference to give more details of the search for Madeleine. He insists that he is doing everything he can to find the little girl, but so far from the ground search "the results are zero". He adds that the ground search for Madeleine is now being wound down.

It is also revealed that police are checking several CCTV images. Mr Sousa said "images of video surveillance" had been collected from several locations "in order to check possible leads that may have been recorded".

Kate and Gerry are asked to scan CCTV film for a glimpse of their kidnapped daughter. Footage at a garage in Portugal captured an image of three suspects, including a woman, with a girl who matched Madeleine's description. The camera also caught the car's British number plate and the registration has been circulated by Interpol and British police.

The McCanns were driven at speed from their holiday apartment to a police station in Portimao to help officers examine the tapes after Mrs McCann again went to the local church to pray for her daughter. Bill Henderson, the British Consul in the Algarve, was seen leaving the police headquarters while Mr and Mrs McCann were still inside.

Two of the three suspects in the CCTV footage that may show Madeleine have been identified by a man who claimed he caught them photographing his own child two weeks ago. The witness, Portuguese-born Nuno Lourenco who lives in Germany, said the gang attempted to abduct his own young daughter.

He told detectives that he saw a man of English appearance photographing his daughter, described as strikingly similar in appearance to Madeleine, on April 30 in Sagres, a town just a few miles from the holiday complex where the McCann family was staying.

The witness, who with his German wife has two children aged two and four, said he chased the man, who fled, jumping into a car with a woman and another man before speeding off. Mr Lourenco is believed to have provided the authorities with a photograph taken on his mobile phone. The witness has told officers he was "100 per cent certain" they were the same people caught on CCTV with the girl matching Madeleine's description hours after she went missing.

[Acknowledgement Nigel Moore and gerrymccannsblog.co.uk]

Despite being asked by the PJ not to contact the press, the McCanns used the British media to push their agenda. Evidenced if nothing else by the secondment of Clarence Mitchell, the former British government director of media manipulation.

ETA:  Thanks Tony, you beat me to it!

Vera Krista, at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I have trouble thinking of the McCann's as loving parents also. There are too many reasons to go into, to explain why I feel that way.

In my # 117 & 118, the Cape St Vincent Lighthouse and "End of the World" are discussed. Members are urged to view this video by Helder Afonso;
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Vera Krista wrote:I believe there were 2 cuddle cats, One Kate holding is the secondary one.
I don't believe McCann's ever loved Maddie either.
They loved their twins more than Maddie
whatever scent Kate had on her trousers is a transfer scent, might not be directly from handling Maddie's corpse.
McCann's knew they are untouchable so she just wore the same trousers, oh look if it really had my my daughter's scent on my trousers do you think I'd wear it?
Both G & K had no parental bones in their body towards Maddie, maybe she was not the perfect, example child.

Unsubstantiated twaddle.

If you have any evidence to support your commentary, please share!

One thing I can't accept is personal hype without a shred of evidence.

Over to you ....

to bird;

it still is no place to throw a large parcel into the sea, it is also not the end of the world, but next to that. 

i think google earth, what is no more than a picture, that gives an impression it is a secret place, no buildings.

the reality is, left and right are sound and vested tourism area's. and google earth shows the result of human footsteps on the ground. you can surf near it, fish near it from land and boat.

well in reality you could wander there, with or without guides, you can sail around, be in one of those boat tours to sea dolphins, seabirds, it is an active fishing spot. 
the pictures of that coast made by tourist show you could see very far. 

it is no lost land, where no one goes. it has no potential to expect you are truly alone and on your own, without eyes around you.

there is a lot of misunderstanding about rural areas. people look around and think they see no humans, thinking they are alone out there. the reality is, that the people who belong there have quite a sharp reaction to specially what is different. 
even if there is no direct line of sight, everything that is out of the ordinary will attract attention. 

your place to dump a body with attached weight to keep it onto the seabed is exactly something that will attract attention. it is not something that happens all the time. small things rolling of a cliff is normal, a heavy packet, or bag is not. 

looking for a silent part of a cliff is easy, but google earth would not tell that. 

but getting something to the bottom of the sea is not easy, certainly not from land, you have to know if you got the right tide, if the bottom of the cliff is not visible at low tide, that there is no stream that transports easily to the next beach. 

the name for this cliff looks to be pontal gardo. there is a direct line of sight to it from the fortification of sagres, and from the lighthouse on cabo sao vicente. 

so again, if you have professionals as helpers, why would it be the most likely place to fulfill such an act. 
a pro wants control from start to finish. this place has no possibility to control anything. 

but to let it stay on the seabed, you also have to know what types of commercial fishing is done locally. 

even commercial companies specialised in seagraves do not always have luck;
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same with trying to burn a corps, or bury it, in a rural area. april may in portugal fire is seen as a hazard by any local. their eyes are trained to see smoke or possible fire. so that way is a pretty hard no. it is no easy digging on most places, and digging a grave will leave a mark. it is not hard to disguise for the majority of eyes that look at it, it is very hard to disguise it for a landowner or user. 
digging a grave, asked for local workable equipement, it has to be deep enough to not get easy access for predators, and dogs. you can't dig a grave next to a tree. you would want to know the place is not part of a plan for cultivating or other works. 

verdi is right, criminals are more successful in crowds, but not a loose crowd existing of people who are there to look at new, unknown places of beauty. who get the advise to forget their binoculars! 

throwing a body from a cliff like this, in portugal is amateur work, far to much uncernaties for any pro.
it does not sound a realistic option, not if a theory is about professional assistance. 
as the uk has a lot of cliffs, they would have the experience to not choose such an undertaking. 

and i do not think the uk pro team would forgo a much easier transit of a body. simply by road, maybe fully by road and ferry crossing, maybe a more short distance by car and travel par ship/boat or yacht from any harbour they could get access to, or even a plane.

if you want to start from a government that sends out a pro team, there is no rule of law, that would set a boundary. amateurs need a lot of luck, pro's need only a good bit of organization.  that cliff is not able to be a part of a good organization work in progress.

onehand ... if my theory is anywhere near what happened, it would have taken place long before any 'pro team' arrived (to conduct the staged cadaver & blood crime scene). Also, it would have taken place during the safety provided by sunset ... or, early in the morning before there were any "eyes" or "binoculars" around.

So just to be clear, sometime between 29th April and 3rdMay?

That seems the most likely period.
But, please don't leak it to The Sun newspaper!
(That's just a little at-times-needed humour  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] ).

Silentscope # 130 ... the McCanns revisiting the "Triangle" also bothered me, especially when I read that after 2007, Kate would sometimes holiday on her own in Praia da Luz ... to seek peace.
That led me to find what else might be of interest in the area (the same question you asked). On the coast of Sagres is the (Catholic) "Church of Our Lady of Grace" (see attached image).
If one visits the church and looks out at the ocean, then both the "End of the World" and "Cliff 1249", are in clear view (see images). Just an insignificant fact upon which to ponder, but also keep in mind.

nope, early hours is fishing time.

only for the strong stomachs!

this on the other side of cabo sao vicente, you will see the lighthouse at the end of the video;

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do not forget to read the comments. 

another one; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8Tp6RxI_Q

you can find a lot of short videos from anywhere on that part of the coast about sea fishing, and cliff fishing. 

so gerry had to drive a car to the cliff- park there- walk with a dead body to the end of that cliff, had he weight it down, before or after that happened?- throw his parcel over the cliff- walked back to the car- get back to deliver that car- and fix a lift to praia da luz. and all early tuesday morning. did he miss out on the garbage trucks? did he miss all the fishing people? the roadworkers in pdl?

and nobody of the early morning eyes got his memory active. every set of eyes during those time, would be strangers to gerry, but all those people only have to remember one stranger, that was painted in full color on the evening news, papers or almost everywhere. 

all from that not so secret place, or the route to and from it; 

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onehand ... between 29 April and 3 May 2007, there were no colour photos of the McCanns in the newspapers.

The view from the "Church of Our Lady of Grace" (Sagres).[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

human memory works longer than that.

it was portugal, they are used to tourist people do touristy things, an early not small typical brit, that parks on a less usually used spot near a path, that does not have fishing gear at hand, but a heavy parcel and that starting out walking the paths to the end of the cliff. or that takes a parcel to a car, or from a car on any place during that route. 

peoples memory fix all that is out of the ordinary, not the usual as always stuff.

if a british man had walked the streets of praia da luz in day time, or evening on thursday or saturday with even two heavy bags, suitcases or something like, that would be the usual thing, because both are transit days. not worth to remember. on the other days it would still be a usual sighting, but more remarkable. 

and you already have 3 other people towed in. the contact person in the uk, or coordinator by phone not found in the phone listings for that week in connection to gerry, have you looked how far the area of pings was there, or the other friends. and could gerry know to use a phone without the ping area. or did he use a landline. 
you have a local now-all and another local now-all on the go, that arrives ; arrived on May 01 at 09:30 at the airport in Faro ( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )


and you get him and gerry, a second visit for gerry, out to the cliffs;


The following day 1 May 2007, as promised, the ‘contact’ arrived in Praia da Luz from Britain. That evening and at sunset, the picturesque “End of the World” was visited. Two days later, on 3 May 2007 the lives of Gerry and Kate McCann changed forever. That evening, their daughter Madeleine was abducted from apartment 5A at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz.


you know now, that sunset at the end of the world cliff was and is a populair trip, and promoted. 


that is not early ours, and gerry had to flirt with the aerobic lady at the tapasbar, at the same time. so the aerobic lady is also in. 


early hours 1 may would not fitted in with the assistance of the arrival of the helper.

Bird131 wrote:. the McCanns revisiting the "Triangle" also bothered me, especially when I read that after 2007, Kate would sometimes holiday on her own in Praia da Luz ... to seek peace.

More media twaddle I'm sorry to say.

Kate McCann wouldn't have dared return to Luz, even their group of holiday friends sought legal assistance to avoid returning to Portugal to participate in a crime reconstruction - this move also let the McCanns off the hook, who otherwise would have had no choice. They were at the time and still are, the prime suspects in the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.

The only time Gerry and/or Kate McCann returned to Portugal was to hound the police chief through the law courts - that shows the calibre of people we are scrutinizing.

Aside, there is not a shred of evidence to substantiate Kate McCann's claims about her return to Portugal. Her word against nothing!

Thanks Verdi ... the media did not lack for imagination.

crusader wrote:It can't have been the blue bag they threw into the sea on the 1st of May, it was photographed in 5a in the early hours of 4th May.

I don't think anything was thrown in the sea

A couple of threads from facebook:

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Gerry's get out...

1) The bag in the cupboard was not blue in in fact black and the camera tinged it blue... cameras do mess with colours in poor lighting and it has "helpful" software in it. Black/blue tinging is possible. 

2) It wasn't a "sports" bag but some kind of other (luggage) bag.

So he didn't have a blue sports bag.

Whatever it was disappeared anyway.

As did Maddie's pink blanket.

The blue bag has played a major part in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance and is now a big part of many theories of how the McCann's removed her body from 5a.

It was Mark Harrison, according to G Amaral, who put forward the hypothesis that the body was taken inside a sports bag or golf bag after seeing photo's taken inside 5a.

All we do know for sure is, when J Barrairas took the photo's inside 5a in the early morning of May 4th, there was a blue/black item that looked like a bag or a soft suitcase.

In the forensic photo's taken on 4th May, the blue/black item was gone, as were a pile of dirty clothes from another shelf.

Keela, the cadaver dog, barked in the wardrobe area where the blue/black item was, this gave credibility to Harrison's observations, but it could just have easily been the pile of removed dirty clothes, that Keela was reacting to.