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April 29th - why so vague?

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April 29th - why so vague?

Post by sharonl on 20.09.18 22:31

thinking  What were the McCanns and their friends doing on April 29th? 

There seems to be very little information, even in the files.  There is nothing much in the book and in one rogatory  statement (will have to check if it was Jane Tanner)  the interviewing officer says, something like "no point in going over what you did on Sunday, we'll just skim over that".

Are there any indications at all, of what they may have been doing?

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by Verdi on 21.09.18 0:04

Without checking word for word, which I don't feel inclined to do at the moment, I think the gang just glossed over April 29th as a matter of routine.

Establishing a routine on the second day of the holiday is pretty good going in my view.  The real action all started on Tuesday 1st May .... to be continued.  A very worthwhile topic if I might say, no shortage of material for comparison - might even uncover a coincidence or three.

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by sharonl on 13.10.18 23:03

Bumping - in the hope that someone can tell us what the McCanns were doing on April 29th and 30th

Anyone?

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by Verdi on 14.10.18 0:13

Kate McCann's autobiographical chiclit novelette goes into great detail about Sunday 29th April.  All pretty routine stuff about childcare, sports activities, eating arrangements blah blah blah.  Matt Oldfield wasn't at the restaurant that night because he had a dicky belly.   I won't reproduce in full for copyright restrictions.

Monday 30th April however is another kettle of fish - red herring, rollmops or sea bass take yer pick.


madeleine by KATE MCCANN [circa. May 2011]

"The following days settled into a similar pattern ....

On the evening of Monday 30 April, I made my first foray to Baptista with Jane. We wanted to stock up on a few essentials as the next day was a public holiday. We all managed to make it for dinner at the Tapas restaurant that evening. Again, there was quite a cold wind, but there were plenty of amusing stories and mickey-taking to keep us cheerful.


Our apartment was cleaned on the Monday and Wednesday (another perk) by a middle-aged Portuguese lady.

Tuesday 1st May it all kicks-off.  Ms McCann goes into great detail about the day.  This days activity detail continues into Wednesday 2nd May and Thursday 3rd May. 

Monday 30th April 2007 appears to be the day of reckoning.

A gentle reminder .... photographic imagery of Madeleine - one photograph said to be taken on Tuesday 1st May (the playground photograph most likely taken on the day of arrival), one said to be taken on Wednesday 2nd May (the tennis ball photograph, provenance unconfirmed) and one said to be taken on Thursday 3rd May (almost certainly taken on Sunday 29th April).

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by sharonl on 14.10.18 13:01

If Madeleine died on the evening of April 29th then yea, of course Monday would be a very busy for them, one of which they would not want to share the details.

We need a timeline of events on April 29th in order to understand what happened to Madeleine that day.

As for the photographs.  What is the likelihood that the Tennis balls pic was taken at the local play park in Rothley, just before the holiday?

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by Verdi on 14.10.18 14:01

Without confirmation as to the provenance of the 'tennis ball' photograph, I think it can be safely ruled-out of the equation.

I remain with the belief that the image was slipped in to show a living healthy Madeleine on the day it was said to be taken - whichever version you care to read but the official version according to Ms McCann - Tuesday 1st May !!!

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by skyrocket on 14.10.18 15:06

@sharoni - hi. Bit more time on my hands this afternoon!

Sunday 29 intrigues me as well. Here's a few statements for starters. Strange how Carpenter can remember quite a lot of detail about the Sunday morning when he interacted with the T9, and yet the T9 have generally poor recollection about the entire day.

Gerry - nothing specific.

Kate - nothing specific in statements.      Book - After dropping the children off we (K&G) went along to a 'tennis coffee morning' ...... we played a few games and signed up for group sessions.'

Stephen Carpenter states in his rogatory:

'On Sunday the 29th April Carolyn and I participated in a coffee morning of the MW tennis group where I met Gerry, Kate, Julian, Curtis, Rachael, Annie, Georgina, Annie's sister and A***, there were other tourists there whose names now escape me. In total there were approximately some sixteen people at this coffee morning ....'

This is what Rachael says in her statement to the PJ on 15 May:

On the morning of the 29th, Sunday, they all went to play tennis except for Matthew because he was ill (vomiting and diarrhoea) and ROB. The children went to the Club. They all lunched in David and Fionas apartment. The McCanns lunched in their apartment and then went to meet the others.


And in her rogatory she mentions the Sunday morning 'tennis socoal' in passing.


Matthew rogatory:

'....So I felt completely icky all the day Sunday, so I think to try and avoid infecting anybody else, I didn't do much outside the apartment and certainly in the evening I didn't go for, erm, didn't go for dinner with everybody else'

Fiona states in her rogatory (although she says that she is struggling to rmember):

Reply
 'Yeah, I think the Sunday, the first day, we did go out on the wind surfers and sort of battled through it a bit, but we were cold and they didn't have full length wetsuits, I remember I actually wanted to come in, because I was absolutely freezing, erm, a bit before the end, because I think it ended at half eleven, eleven, half eleven.


Jane rogatorty:

"......err I honestly can’t remember what we did that morning. I don’t know, I don’t think, I think the tennis lesson, I can’t remember whether the tennis lesson started that day or the next day but err so I think, no I can’t remember apart from the fact I know Ella didn’t go, so I presume we stayed with Ella or either Russell or myself you know stayed with Ella by the pool because there’s like a park area by the pool, so.”

Russell rogatory:


Reply    “May have been on the Saturday at the Tapas, it could have possibly been on, at a separate meeting on the Sunday, I’m not entirely sure whether there was one, one introductory meeting where everything happened including some of your bookings for what you wanted to do or whether there was a separate one on the Sunday.  But, erm, but just the way, the way this reads it implies that I had wind surfing lessons that day, but actually, erm, there was no water, I don’t think there was anything in terms, in terms of lessons down at the waterfront until the Monday”.

1578    “’I can’t recall exactly what I did on that day’ it should read, shouldn’t it'”
 Reply    “On that day, yeah.  Erm, but ‘I’d agreed to have wind surfing lessons and do a bit of sailing’ shall we say ‘Monday through Thursday’, we add ‘Monday through Thursday’, because we certainly didn’t do that, I think the Sunday was sort of a, a relative day off for, erm, for the staff, well certainly with the, you know, for the staff at the beach I think.  I think the rest of it’s fine.  I don’t, I really can’t recall an awful lot about the Sunday, I think we probably just had a bit of a look round, a trip to the beach.  I’ve got a vague idea I, that you may have been able to still hire the kayaks, so I think I might have had a go on one of them, but I suppose that’s not terribly, terribly relevant..."


And then Russell again, about the evening routine on Sunday (not forgetting that Matthew was supposed to have been ill and in his apartment):


'.....And then on Sunday ‘I recall I checked Kate and Gerry’s apartment as well as Rachael and Matt’s and my recollection is that I needed Matt’s key to check on their room and I had it, but I didn’t need Kate and Gerry’s key because they went through the patio door’, erm, we went through the patio door to cross in and look into the children’s bedroom.  So, at the time, I have to say, I didn’t really think that, you know, about the differences in how, in how we were, the security in the, in the rooms was, but, erm, I definitely did not go in through Gerry’s and Kate’s main, you know, double locked door or anything, I’m sure I went through the patio, so I think they were doing things differently from Matt and Rachael, at least from the ground floor perspective, right from the word go”.

1578    “Okay”.

David and Dianne are very vague about Sunday.



Carole Tranmer rogatory (Mrs Fenn's niece):


CT' No one comes to mind. The one thing that I do remember is that some celebration was going on, but I don't know if it was the Sunday or the Thursday. There was some celebration, next to the pool. I do not know if it was the families, the guests of the complex, but there was something. The only thing I can say is that it could have been Sunday or Thursday. I cannot remember and for this reason I would like to leave out this detail.

DC1485'When you speak of a celebration' was it was a barbeque or a bunch of people in good moods'

CT' Well, it appeared to be a celebration, you know, with all the people in good moods and a lot of noise' not much noise but people were laughing and I do not know if this was on Sunday or Thursday....'
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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by Doug D on 14.10.18 16:03

Needs padding out, but pulled this up quickly, although the Duarte Levy link/page seems to have gone:
 
Levy in black, HiDeHo red, ‘madeleine’ green.
 
Sun 29.04.2007
 
Breakfast Millennium Restaurant
we woke up bright and early and feeling refreshed. After a quick wash, we returned to the Millennium restaurant, where we joined our friends for breakfast, and then took the children to their kids’ clubs. While our three were having fun elsewhere with their buddies, there would be a rare chance for Gerry and me to spend time together playing tennis, going for a run or just relaxing.
After dropping off the children we went along to a ‘tennis coffee morning’. …….. We played a few games and signed up for group lessons for the rest of the week, me at level 1 and Gerry level 2 .
? pruning of hedge
Morning Kids Club
10:00 morning talking over coffee, I went along to tennis
Lunch sandwiches →
→ F balcony and Dave
The cleaners daughter saw them all outside the apartment at around 1.15pm... Madeleine holding bread and probably heading up to the Payne's apartment for lunch. (The last credible sighting of Madeleine during that week. imo)
They also went to the pool around lunchtime... A  lovely sunny day...temps around 23c (I believe that the 'last photo' was taken on this day)
Kids Club afternoon
Soon after midday we collected the children. …….
Gerry had made a trip to Baptista, ………, to get in a few bits and pieces for lunch, plus some cereal, to save us making the trek to the Millennium restaurant for breakfast each morning. We all had lunch on the balcony of the apartment Fi and Dave were sharing with Dianne. Today we’d been able to make a dinner reservation for the adult contingent at the poolside Tapas restaurant. …….The children could have their tea together earlier, play for a while and then go to bed at their usual time, which meant they wouldn’t get overtired and out of sorts, and we could eat later on.
In the afternoon the children went back to their clubs and, after a leisurely hour by the pool with Fiona, David and Dianne, Gerry and I took a run along the beach. Being able to play tennis and run together for the first time in ages was a real treat.
Seated in deck-chairs F A A
K and G run - Beach 16:00
High tea
Just before 5pm, the arrangement was that the nannies would bring all the children to a raised area next to the Tapas restaurant to meet their parents and have their ‘high tea’, as they called it. Madeleine’s Mini Club arrived walking in single file clutching Sammy Snake, a long rope with coloured rings fastened to it at regular intervals for the children to hold on to. Very cute. The nearby play area had several small slides and a little playhouse, which our team of kids adored, and after tea we all spent half an hour or so there.
Recreational area
Matthew Oldfield was (apparently) sick and did not go to the tapas on Sunday night but oddly, Russell O'Brien claimed that he went to check on Matthew and Rachael's child...
 
Monday 30.04.2007
 
Breakfast apartment?
The following days settled into a similar pattern: we’d have breakfast in the apartment, drop Madeleine, Sean and Amelie at their clubs and head to the courts, behind the Tapas bar building, for our hour-long group tennis lessons (mine was at nine-fifteen, Gerry’s at ten-fifteen).
Kids clubs
apartment cleaning Our apartment was cleaned on the Monday and Wednesday (another perk) by a middle-aged Portuguese lady.
Tennis
K 09.15-10.15
G 10.15-11.15
 
Jane Tanner met up with friends of hers that were staying nearby (the Gorrods).
Speculation is that the McCanns went to Sagres but this has never been confirmed.


*? washing machine / blinds
Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave
We’d collect the children between twelve and twelve-thirty and return to the flat for lunch and tales from the kids’ clubs. Afterwards we would often call in on the others at David and Fiona’s apartment or pop down to the play area for a while. Most afternoons the children went back to their clubs, while we played tennis, went for a run or read and chatted by the pool.
Kids club?? Beach
Creche records show that Madeleine was taken out of the creche after a few minutes (In 15.15, Out 15.30 or 5.30?) and the twins shortly after (No. In 15.25, Out 17.20) but also not confirmed as the records are difficult to understand/believe.
+ / - 16.00 K run 25 min.
16:30 Tennis lessons
High tea
We’d usually meet up with the children and nannies for tea, along with the rest of our friends, and then it was off to the play area again for some fun and a good run- around before the kids’ bedtime.
 
18:30? tennis night for women
Sometimes in the early evening there would be a lighthearted tennis event: Monday was ‘ladies night’, for example,
 
Recreational area
Afternoon: K and J Supermarket
On the evening of Monday 30 April, I made my first foray to Baptista with Jane. We wanted to stock up on a few essentials as the next day was a public holiday. We all managed to make it for dinner at the Tapas restaurant that evening. Again, there was quite a cold wind, but there were plenty of amusing stories and mickey-taking to keep us cheerful.
 
Rest. – everyone
 
…………………………………………
 
 ‘Matthew Oldfield was sick and didn't go to dinner on the Sunday night (even though O'Brien says that he checked the Oldfield child that night), Russell O'Brien was sick and didn't go to dinner on the Tuesday and Rachael Oldfield was sick and didn't go to dinner on the Wednesday.

Saturday they all went to the Millenium, Thursday there was much too-ing and fro-ing by all of them, so it appears that Monday was the only night that nobody confesses to being away from the dinner table.’
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4742-how-many-times-was-a-parent-absent-from-the-evening-meal-at-the-tapas-bar?highlight=evening+sickness
 
Always been suspicious of this nonsense, although no specific evidence to back it up.
 
The Paynes had their ‘super-duper baby alarm’ so didn’t need to be in any babysitting rota, if that’s what it was.
 
If they had agreed to take it in turns, Oldfields, Sunday & Wednesday (which we have seen), Mcs, Monday & Thursday, O’Brien/Tanner, Tuesday (similarly seen) & Friday?
 
The Mc’s couldn’t be seen to have been in such a ring, hence Monday’s stint never happened and 'sickness' became a convenient excuse if anyone ever questioned the other night's table absences?  Had something already happened to prevent this or was it that Thursday would have been ‘their night’ again, hence Monday night needed to be forgotten?

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by Doug D on 14.10.18 16:41

Rachael disagrees of course:


On the morning of the 29th, Sunday, they all went to play tennis except for Matthew because he was ill (vomiting and diarrhoea) and ROB. 
The children went to the Club.




They all lunched in David and Fionas apartment. The McCanns lunched in their apartment and then went to meet the others. In the afternoon the children slept (except the McCann children) and afterwards they went to the recreation area.
   
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-11-MAY07.htm

You'd have thought the one day that might actually stick in her mind would be the Sunday that was allegedly a write-off for her husband.

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by NickE on 14.10.18 21:08

Monday 30/4 has always puzzled me in several ways and I find this particularly odd.
To write down the phonenumber on the creche sheet is for security reasons,if something happened to child or if the staff need to get in touch with the parents.
They did(or someone) wrote down the phonenumber but what happened next?
They had their phones turned off through the entire Monday.



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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by sharonl on 14.10.18 22:51

Thank you both.

This research is vital to establish what went on during the 2 days and what happened to Madeleine. 

 I can understand anyone going away and not recalling when certain activities took place, but the fact that they remember the rest of the week, and are contradicting each other, and themselves, on the events of two days, 3-4 days before Madeleine was reported missing, speaks volumes.

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Re: April 29th - why so vague?

Post by sharonl on 19.11.18 17:32

Bumping this thread in the hope that someone can throw some more light onto the activities of the Tapas nine on April 29th 2007

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