Spotlight on Sunday 29th April 2007

This is a random snip from Kate McCann's witness statement..

The routines

The day after their arrival, they went for breakfast at around 7.30/8.30 at the Ocean Club, in a bar situated some distance from the apartment. On the following days, because the bar was quite far away, they started buying supplies from the "BAPTISTE" supermarket, located on the same road as the apartment and they had their first meal of the day in the apartment.

This is google translate into Portuguese..

As rotinas

No dia seguinte à sua chegada, eles foram para o café da manhã em torno das 7h30 / 8h30 no Ocean Club, em um bar situado a alguma distância do apartamento. Nos dias seguintes, porque o bar estava bastante distante, eles começaram a comprar suprimentos do supermercado "BAPTISTE", localizado na mesma estrada que o apartamento e eles tiveram a primeira refeição do dia no apartamento.

This is Kate McCann's witness statement in Portuguese as contained in the PJ files(starts at line 41 ends line 46) ..


As can be seen, no comparison.  This is why accredited translators/interpreters are employed when a professional approach is required.

skyrocket wrote:@Verdi - with ref to the translation. I think we have been down this road before. Yes, I appreciate the immense amount of work put in to translate the files - something I am sure we are all extremely grateful for. However, the fact remains that certain phrases have been mis-translated. It would be very remiss of anyone who comes across any of these mistakes not to point it out and I am sure that the translators themselves would not be the least offended. No, I don't speak Portuguese (my Spanish is good and is similar) - something I know that I have explained to you previously.

Yes @skyrocket , we have been this way before - you didn't speak Portuguese then and by your own admission, you don't speak Portuguese now.

Spanish is not Portuguese any more than Portuguese is Spanish, nor can a years sojourn in a country equate to having a good knowledge of the language.

Let's leave the translation/interpretation to the professionals eh?  Otherwise it will only add more confusion to an already confused case - as can be seen from this afternoons reaction.

Now can we please get back to evidence that Madeleine was seen alive and well by a reliable witness on Sunday 29th April 2007.

As far as the translations go, I know Ines was still translating just a few years ago and was ALWAYS rechecking any that were done quickly by others at the beginning as well as being willing to check any that were brought to her attention. There is no question that I have full faith in her abilities, as well as Joana and Astro.

IF there had been any issues, I think we can be sure that, because the original Portuguese is available, had there been any reasonable issues the 'pros' would have checked the original and pointed it out.

I can't begin to thank them for what they did....as we know £100,000 of translations VOLUNTARILY!

Would we still be here if they weren't translated?

David Payne witness statement - 4th May 2007

No specific mention of Sunday 29th May.

[Note:  David Payne was not reinterviewed during the second round on 10th/11th May 2007]


David Payne's rogatory interview -  11th April 2008

Err you know we, you know we all went err to Millennium, again I, whether it was the Saturday night or the Sunday night I'm not, I can't recall.'

later..

1485 "Okay. So let's move on to the next day, your first full day which is the Sunday.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Tell me as much as you can.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "From the time you got up till the time you went to bed.'

  Reply "I think err from my point of view, you know I find it very difficult to recall the exact events you know err you know on a day to day err basis. You know I find it easier just to say generally what happened you know during the week than''

1485 "Well the first day you would have sorted out your activities wouldn't you''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "So if that helps you''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "To at least get the first day out the way.'

 Reply "Yeah, err you know we, I mean the one thing that we, me and Fiona were quite keen on would be to err you know there was, on the water sports err side of things. Err we were keen to put the kids into the creche you know for the morning, err you know we were gonna look, you know the, ours tended to sleep during the afternoon so err you know on the, again we'd have perhaps gone down to the water, you know the water sports area just to you know maybe to sign up for courses there, err as I say we were just generally interested in trying to err windsurf and perhaps go on the dinghies. Err other members of the group were really interested in you know the tennis side of things and getting the lessons but I'm really sorry I can't remember exactly.'

1485 "Where did you breakfast on the first day''

 Reply "Err I mean we could you know obviously there's the Supermarket, which wasn't too err far away, did we all go up, I'm trying to think whether we went to the Millennium for the breakfast or whether we went to the Supermarket on the first day. I can't remember, I'm sorry.'

 Reply "Okay, and you mentioned your creches.

 Reply "Yes.'

1485 "Did you take your''
 
Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "What time would you have taken them to the creche''

 Reply "I mean well Lily and err Scarlet you know, being the different age groups, were in different places and err Scarlet was down by the err the actual reception at the Ocean Club and err Scarlet, err Lily was up at the err Tapas bar. Err so generally Fi would take Scarlet after breakfast err which we you know we did often have. Again you know we stayed on for four weeks unfortunately after and you know we had breakfast in the apartment and it just blurs.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "One into the other, whether you know we were at the Millennium but I seem to remember that we would generally go to the Millennium. There was one morning I can recollect that err you know that Kate and Gerry were walking back and found it difficult because Sean and Amelie were, as I say, in the age where they wanted to walk but it was difficult to get them and I think they were, you know generally thinking that the Millennium for breakfast wasn't probably a particularly a good idea, which you know I think more often than not we generally ate at the Millennium, err and then after we'd eaten breakfast there which, and again I think finished at nine o' clock, we would then, you know after we'd finished breakfast try and get them down to err you know drop them off at the Ocean Club or at the creche by the Tapas, then you know depending on whether there was anything going on that morning from the sporting point of view then you know we'd go wherever. Err you know mixed into the melee was you know we often went in the morning to the Supermarket to do a bit of a shop and you know with a big group that we seemed to get through things pretty quickly and err so as I say I'm afraid one day does blur into another, I can't really recall specifics.'

1485 "Okay. I understand that your apartment was like the meeting place.'

 Reply "Yes.'

 1485 "Can you recall that''

 Reply "Yes, definitely. Err you know, I, I, it just happened you know the way it happened you know people just gravitated up to err to our room err you know it's, I suppose some part we'd got Dianne there who is fantastic at you know helping, you know it's a free set of hands whereas you know Russ and Jane obviously they've got two, and we've got two and so you know it was good that we've got someone extra to help out while you know someone's preparing the food, keep an eye on the children, err so often you know we would, you know we'd con, congregate there at lunch time and quite often if I remember Matt and Rachael would bring Grace along and you know we'd eat there together. Err a lot of the time we didn't tend to see you know Kate and Gerry you know it was more Russell and Jane primarily I remember, and sometimes Matt and Rachael and Grace but generally err Kate and Gerry would do their own thing err you know during the day, so that's, but they you know they would still come up you know from time to time. So it was well used at the, that first floor.'

1485 "Was it, I notice you say that you didn't see much of Kate and Gerry and you that sparsely see Russell and, was it something that you discussed before the holiday that you was gonna all do your own thing in the day then just meet up for night time''

 Reply "Err no, no it was just one of these things that you know naturally happened err I think the children, you do whatever is the easiest and you know you fall into a pattern and it just seemed, you know whenever you wanted to put your kids down or whenever they were tired or you know as I say ours slept in the afternoon but I'm, you know for example I know that Sean and Amelie didn't you know tend to have sleeps err you know and Madeleine, during the day. So you know they, yeah their time was pretty occupied right from first thing in the morning till''

skyrocket wrote:@HiDeHo - I completely agree, Fatima's statement comes across as entirely credible. Apologies if my posts above gave any suggestion otherwise. 

I got that immediately - you were not questioning the credibility.

The translation of "no idea" as opposed to "can't remember" made it even more credible.

Good research.

As I said first time it seems legit.

@BlueBag - thanks for your (as always) rational and unbiased response to what I posted.

Yes, I'm not sure that others have realised the point you make - the corrected translation makes Fatima's statement more credible and as I said above, I think she is a genuine/valuable witness. I'm sorry @HiDeHo, I have the utmost respect for your work/opinions but the fact remains that the best make mistakes - it would be a miracle if there were none in the files (11,000 pages?). They need correcting if found, IMO.

I read texts very closely (multiple times) and I have found several mistakes over the last few years - none of which I have posted. Some are mis-translations; some poor transcript transfers. Just as a very simple example. For @Verdi's benefit I'll stick to words which are the same in both Portuguese and English so there can be no confusion with translation:

http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

'quando se encontrava no bar 'O TAPAS','

has been translated as:

'while he was in the tapas restaurant'

Now, the mistake (and that is what it is) may not seem too significant, but if the restaurant and bar are 2 separate rooms or even areas, then the meaning of the statement changes entirely. Mistakes need to be pointed out IF they become an issue of meaning/clarification.

I stand by the corrected translation, and it bothers me that @Verdi is so quick to dismiss points rather than being prepared to check personally, before making comment. I always check very carefully before I post - seems good practise to me. Uninformed criticism doesn't help moving anything forward - it merely adds confusion, and despite what some think, confusion is not good. Translation of stand alone words/phrases is NOT some mystical science and Spanish actually helps a lot (particularly verbs) with Portuguese and Italian - all wonderful languages.

@Verdi - nothing you post is going to stop me posting what/when I choose, I think you might even agree that I am one of the least frivolous members on here, nor am I going to get involved in pointless, long-winded, 'button pressing' posts. As per your favourite command: 'Let's move on!'

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Back on topic please good people.


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