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Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 18.11.16 15:10

MayMuse wrote:Rachael is living her life with an interesting array of connections, seemingly untouched by those events in 2007 where she was party to a little girl disappearing? 
IMO
She ain't the only one is she - the rest of the gang haven't done badly have they?  Even the main player, Doctor Gerald McCann, has managed to bag himself a professorship, whilst the misses stays at home 'looking after the kids' and appending her name to various charitable events - oh and of course 'searching'.

Pity she wasn't so charitable as regards the welfare of her own precious daughter.

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 18.11.16 15:40

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

Chapter:  Missing

Gerry called his sister, Trisha. As difficult as it was to tell our family, we knew we needed help from home, and quickly....

After Gerry rang off, Trisha and Sandy called the Foreign Office in London, the British Consulate in the Algarve and the British Embassy in Lisbon, requesting assistance. It was also left to them to tell the rest of Gerry’s family....

At 11.52pm, Gerry spoke to my Uncle Brian and Auntie Janet in Rothley,...

Brian then got in touch with the duty officer at the Foreign Office in London....


Dave asked whether we should get the media involved to increase awareness and recruit more help. The reply was swift and unambiguous. ‘No media!  No media!'...

Eventually, at about 3am, I managed to get hold of Michelle’s partner, Jon Corner, on his mobile....

At some point before the PJ left, a retired British couple in a nearby apartment lent him their computer and he sent an email to Sky News alerting them to the abduction of our daughter, using an address listed on their website.  Evidently this wasn’t the best way of contacting Sky, because, as it turned out, Dave’s email remained buried in some inbox.Despite the fabricated tales that later emerged in certain quarters, suggesting that we had contacted the media before we’d even called the police, apparently the first Sky heard of Madeleine’s disappearance was from the Press Association, and from seeing one of our friends on GMTV, later that morning. Though we knew little of what was going on at the time, it is true that the news filtered through overnight....

Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am....

Friday 4th May 2007 @ 8:00 am onwards

By this time our friend Jon Corner, a creative director in media production in Liverpool, was circulating photographs and video footage of Madeleine to the police, Interpol and broadcasting and newspaper news desks. This was in accordance with the standard advice of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the US, which advocates getting an image of a missing child into the public domain as soon as possible....

Steve Carpenter returned with a man who had offered his assistance. He was, he’d told Steve, bilingual in English and Portuguese and could maybe assist with interpreting. I was grateful for any help we could get. This man was in his thirties, wore glasses and there was something unusual about one of his eyes – a squint, I thought at the time (I have since been told he is blind in one eye). He seemed very personable and was happy to be of service.  Realizing I didn’t know his name, I caught up with him and asked....‘Robert,’ he said.‘  Thank you, Robert,’ I said.

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by MayMuse on 18.11.16 18:20

Verdi wrote:madeleine by KATE MCCANN

Chapter:  Missing

Gerry called his sister, Trisha. As difficult as it was to tell our family, we knew we needed help from home, and quickly....

After Gerry rang off, Trisha and Sandy called the Foreign Office in London, the British Consulate in the Algarve and the British Embassy in Lisbon, requesting assistance. It was also left to them to tell the rest of Gerry’s family....

At 11.52pm, Gerry spoke to my Uncle Brian and Auntie Janet in Rothley,...

Brian then got in touch with the duty officer at the Foreign Office in London....


Dave asked whether we should get the media involved to increase awareness and recruit more help. The reply was swift and unambiguous. ‘No media!  No media!'...

Eventually, at about 3am, I managed to get hold of Michelle’s partner, Jon Corner, on his mobile....

At some point before the PJ left, a retired British couple in a nearby apartment lent him their computer and he sent an email to Sky News alerting them to the abduction of our daughter, using an address listed on their website.  Evidently this wasn’t the best way of contacting Sky, because, as it turned out, Dave’s email remained buried in some inbox.Despite the fabricated tales that later emerged in certain quarters, suggesting that we had contacted the media before we’d even called the police, apparently the first Sky heard of Madeleine’s disappearance was from the Press Association, and from seeing one of our friends on GMTV, later that morning. Though we knew little of what was going on at the time, it is true that the news filtered through overnight....

Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am....

Friday 4th May 2007 @ 8:00 am onwards

By this time our friend Jon Corner, a creative director in media production in Liverpool, was circulating photographs and video footage of Madeleine to the police, Interpol and broadcasting and newspaper news desks. This was in accordance with the standard advice of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the US, which advocates getting an image of a missing child into the public domain as soon as possible....

Steve Carpenter returned with a man who had offered his assistance. He was, he’d told Steve, bilingual in English and Portuguese and could maybe assist with interpreting. I was grateful for any help we could get. This man was in his thirties, wore glasses and there was something unusual about one of his eyes – a squint, I thought at the time (I have since been told he is blind in one eye). He seemed very personable and was happy to be of service.  Realizing I didn’t know his name, I caught up with him and asked....‘Robert,’ he said.‘  Thank you, Robert,’ I said.
Nice try Mrs McCann,  would it not have been quicker and more apt  to hand over that poolside last photo which was siting in your camera?
By this time our friend Jon Corner, a creative director in media production in Liverpool, was circulating photographs and video footage of Madeleine to the police, Interpol and broadcasting and newspaper news desks. This was in accordance with the standard advice of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the US, which advocates getting an image of a missing child into the public domain as soon as possible....

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“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.”

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 18.11.16 20:27

MayMuse wrote:Nice try Mrs McCann,  would it not have been quicker and more apt  to hand over that poolside last photo which was siting in your camera?
By this time our friend Jon Corner, a creative director in media production in Liverpool, was circulating photographs and video footage of Madeleine to the police, Interpol and broadcasting and newspaper news desks. This was in accordance with the standard advice of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in the US, which advocates getting an image of a missing child into the public domain as soon as possible....
Yer 'ave t'larf don'tcha?  If you break that short paragraphs down just a little, what do you find?

Jon Corner was busily circulating photographs and video footage of Madeleine, at various stages of her very short life, to all and sundry....  In accordance with the standard advice of the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in the US - and the crux is 'which advocates getting an (as in one) image of a missing child into the public domain as soon as possible.

Well Ms Healy, be advised that Portugal is not in the USA - who gave you this information prior to your husbands visit to Washington?  Lady Catherine 'my husband stole my children' Meyer via Cherie Blair CBE QC?

No media!  No media!

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by worriedmum on 18.11.16 22:34

Wow, is Mrs McCann saying Jon Corner checked what 'standard procedure' was---in the USA of all places, before he did anything but after 3 am in the morning?  As Verdi says, 'No media!!'
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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 19.11.16 12:53

The Truth of the Lie by Goncalo Amaral:  Chapter 7

SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR AND CONTRADICTIONS -THE MURAT CASE  [snipped]

The English journalist to whom he gave this information during an interview was immediately distrusting of him and the reasons that motivated him to help the police. Murat has lived with his mother in Vila da Luz for several years, but he goes to England regularly. Back from his last stay in Exeter on May 1st, he has to return there on the 9th. He is ready to postpone his departure, desirous above all, he states, of helping the police to find Madeleine.

His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. It is also known that he visits web sites of a pornographic nature.

His mother has set up a desk near the Tapas restaurant in order to gather and give out information about Madeleine. We don’t know if this woman’s actions are philanthropic in nature, or if she is hoping to keep well-informed of all the information circulating about the case. Members of the British agency CEOP (Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre), take a close interest in Murat and work to develop his psychological profile.

FOR THE PROFILERS, MURAT IS THE GUILTY PARTY


Since Murat’s first interview, which they attended, the specialists have continued to refine the profile of the suspect. They have heard about the statement from one of his so-called childhood friends, put on file by the police department: according to him, Murat had an affirmed penchant for bestiality. He recounted his attempts at sexual relations with a cat and a dog, subsequently killed, he states, with cruelty. Moreover, he allegedly attempted to rape his 16 year-old cousin. This individual describes Murat as someone violent with behavioural problems, a sexual pervert, sadist, and misanthropist. We are somewhat sceptical. All the same, according to the English profilers, there is a 90% chance that he is the guilty party. That seems to us to be a bit too easy. We think that drawing conclusions based essentially on the statement of an ex-convict is rather dangerous.

As if the memory of the McCann family’s friends suddenly came back to them, all – Rachael Mampilly, wife of Matthew Oldfield, Fiona Payne, wife of David Payne, and Russell O’Brien Jane Tanner’s partner – recall having seen Murat on the night of May 3rd, shortly after the announcement of the disappearance, in the immediate vicinity of apartment 5A. Meanwhile, of course, Murat’s picture has been shown on television and in certain newspapers. They themselves were in direct contact with him during the previous days. However, it is only on May 16th that they deliver this information to us. As for the officers of the National Guard who were on the spot, they didn’t see him that night, only the next morning, when he came to offer his services as interpreter.

On July 11th at 10am, a confrontation is organised between the witnesses – Rachael Mampilly, Fiona Payne and Russell O’Brien – and Robert Murat. Nothing new comes out of it. The former persist in stating that the suspect was definitely in the area on the night of the disappearance. Murat denies the whole thing and even accuses them of lying. Each side stands its ground. The only positive aspect of this meeting: the McCanns’ friends undertake to return to Portugal for the purpose of the investigation. That will not happen.
----------


Worth reading the whole chapter in my opinion.


http://truthofthelie.com/the-book/chapter-7/

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 19.11.16 20:54

@TonyBennett wrote: 

The basis for myself and Richard Hall stating that Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Russell O’Brien had retracted their claims of seeing Murat that night came in a Daily Mail article of 8 January 2008, which, inter alia, said this: 

“Doubt was cast on the evidence of several key witnesses in the Madeleine McCann disappearance last night. Those who said they saw suspect Robert Murat outside the family's holiday apartment on the night she vanished may have named the wrong man, it was revealed. Detectives believe the witnesses who said they saw the British expat could have confused him with a friend of Kate and Gerry McCann, David Payne, who was out searching for the missing three-year-old…A series of witnesses have given statements claiming to have seen him around the Ocean Club apartment complex in the hours after Mrs McCann, 39, raised the alarm. They include three friends of the McCanns, Russell O'Brien, Fiona Payne and Rachael Oldfield…”
 ----------

There mayn't be any official written evidence of a retraction by Messrs. Oldfield, Tanner and O'Brien (sounds like a firm of dodgy solicitors) but everything points in that direction.

Looking again at the recorded rogatory interviews, this time from the perspective of the interviewer, PC Plod, as opposed to the interviewee, a considerable amount of attention was placed on when, where, why and how the group first encountered Robert Murat.  Their respective answers, particularly Russell O'Brien, are so incoherent it's impossible to apply any degree of extenuating circumstances to placate their apparent fabrication.

So, reverting to the JJ persons gripe, taking into account the sequence of events from September 2007 to the duration of the rogatory interviews in April 2008, there is every reason to believe that the group tried to back-down from their original claim about Murat being around on the night of 3rd May 2007.  Stands to reason they couldn't change their story because that would be an admission of a lie - what better way of retracting their previous claims than by mumbling and fumbling about with a load of garbled nonsense - even the interviewer seemed exasperated by O'Brien's ramblings.

I'm thinking, there is no way the Metropolitan police would be directly influenced by a tabloid news report, therefore the rigorous questioning as regards the first meeting with Robert Murat must have been generated by another source.  The rogatory interviews were conducted in co-operation with the PJ - did they, the PJ, push for this particular aspect of information?  It would appear obvious to me that specific members of the Tapas group did retract their original claim about their meet with Murat, which was clearly a blatant lie.

There is no reason for any official retraction to be made public, this is business conducted in the UK and forms no part of the Portuguese obligation to release information concerning a criminal investigation to media outlets and interested parties.  Can't prove anything but as I say, everything points in that direction.

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Roxyroo on 20.11.16 10:03

Have I read that right? Fiona Payne mistook her own husband for Murat? Or am I not reading the highlighted part correctly?

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Doug D on 20.11.16 10:54

Roxyroo:
 
‘Fiona Payne mistook her own husband for Murat?’
 
That is the nonsense the Mail reported that the ‘detectives’ (don’t know who) were trying to suggest.

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 20.11.16 20:08

This JJ issue is gnawing away at my tranquility.  In particular s/he says, I quote..

How do they then explain the rogatory statements of  FP and RO  in April 2008 (note the date).  Both stating:
 
“RM came up to me shook me by the hand and said I am Robert Murat.  I noticed he had a squint and he gave us his phone number.  I am 100% sure it was Robert Murat”.


Assuming FP and RO to be Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien, I don't have the time nor patience to read the entire rogatories verbatim but in the interest of accuracy I typed in the key words using the word search function but I can't locate the above quote from either of the two.  It seems to me that this JJ person is doing the same thing as he accuses CMoMM members of doing - only a darn sight worse.  There is a distinct difference between educated analysis that leads to a speculative conclusion and deliberate obfuscation by misinterpretation of documented information.

If I'm wrong, I welcome a reference to where the quote is to be found in the rogatory interviews with Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien.

Moving on to Rosalinda Hutton's words of wisdom, again I quote..
 
"For whatever reason, these completely incompetent idiots (psychos) have completely ignored the lives and times of the most obvious suspects outside the McCanns, that is, the ones who had the means and opportunity (if not the motive) to assist in making a child disappear, the ones disappearing from the dinner table for long intervals with valid 'child was sick' etc excuses for their absence....

CMoMM and indeed Richard Hall seem to be oblivious to the most clear and obvious 'suspects' - the party of 9 who are up to the necks in it."


I simply cannot understand the mentality of these people.  Do they have a problem reading plain English or do they deliberately ignore and/or misinterpret extensive passages of text?  In my comparatively short membership on CMoMM, I've read so many comments that relate to different aspects of the Tapas groups culpability in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann - why do they say otherwise and try to spread false information about the forum?

This is, or should be, about the disappearance of a three year old child - why do people see the need to use that tragedy to wage war on people that don't fit in with their questionable agenda? 

I despair!

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 20.11.16 20:12

Roxyroo wrote:Have I read that right? Fiona Payne mistook her own husband for Murat? Or am I not reading the highlighted part correctly?
Well, it was dark and he didn't look like a tourist..  smilie !

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by April28th on 20.11.16 20:33

Verdi wrote:Assuming FP and RO to be Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien, I don't have the time nor patience to read the entire rogatories verbatim but in the interest of accuracy I typed in the key words using the word search function but I can't locate the above quote from either of the two.  It seems to me that this JJ person is doing the same thing as he accuses CMoMM members of doing - only a darn sight worse.  There is a distinct difference between educated analysis that leads to a speculative conclusion and deliberate obfuscation by misinterpretation of documented information.

If I'm wrong, I welcome a reference to where the quote is to be found in the rogatory interviews with Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien.

The details are mostly from Fiona's rogatory, and the mobile number part comes from Russell's. I think 'JJ' was just paraphrasing.

From FP's Rogatory;

' Erm, and I think, as I've said in my other statement, that's when I, around that time I saw Robert MURAT and that was at the front of the apartment. A I say, I'd been to'ing and fro'ing between the front and the back and I'd come out of the front, really just to see if anyone knew, had any information of what was happening, and, erm, Robert MURAT actually walked over to me and shook my hand and introduced himself, erm, and told me that he was, that he was a local, he was working with the Police and he spoke Portuguese and if I needed any help or wanted any help with translation then, erm, you know, he'll be there to help us. And I withdrew from him, I didn't, I don't know why specifically I remember him, I mean, I haven't got a very good memory for faces, I think the others will say, or people, but I remember him very clearly, because he looked a bit strange and he had a squint, he had glasses, he appeared as if he was with the Police, because he was standing in front of all these uniformed Police, and maybe it was my assumption that he was with them, erm, yet he was saying he was a local, and I didn't quite, in my mind, I said, well how come you're a local living down the road and you're here in plain clothes yet you're saying you're with the Police, it didn't, it just seemed a bit odd, erm, and he seemed overly in my face, I can't think of a better way of putting it, he was very quite sort of almost forceful in his introduction and, you know, at that point I was sort of almost trying to steer people away from the apartment, any extra people that weren't really needed in there, just because of what was going on inside and Kate's state, so I didn't really want somebody who I didn't know, erm, in there, erm, and I think I said in my previous statement to the PJ, there was just something that made me uneasy'

And RO (Russell);

'
Erm, you know, I certainly saw Robert MURAT again on the morning and that’s the occasion, erm, on which I took his, his mobile number, erm, and I thought, you know, certainly with some of the translational difficulties with, you know, with the staff, that he appeared to be a very, a very kind of useful person to sort of be able to contact should we need him, as I say, I remember taking his details just on the corner of the apartment, we were outside, not, not on the road outside five ‘A’ but just at the junction of the two roads, he was walking off and going around there and I remember kind of catching him and saying, you know, ‘What’s your name’ and just putting Robert and his number into the phone. '
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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 20.11.16 20:42

Another anomaly.   JJ wrote, I quote..

"Who authorised the Leics police to involve themselves in illegal activity in PDL on Saturday 5th May 2007?"

THE ARRIVAL OF THE ENGLISH POLICE

On Monday May 7th, we start to welcome our English colleagues from Leicestershire, the county where Madeleine and her parents live.

The Truth of the Lie - Goncalo Amaral

Saturday 5th May 2007

All the same, we were reassured to see some UK police that day in the shape of three family liaison officers (FLOs) from the Leicestershire force, which had also officially logged Madeleine as missing. They came to introduce themselves and to outline their dual role: supporting us and our family and acting as a conduit for the flow of information between us and the PJ.

.... However, in addition to the Leicestershire FLOs, they did permit forensic psychologists from CEOP, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, and an analyst from the National Policing Improvements Agency to come to Praia da Luz the following week.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 20.11.16 20:49

April28th wrote:
The details are mostly from Fiona's rogatory, and the mobile number part comes from Russell's. I think 'JJ' was just paraphrasing.

JJ wrote:  How do they then explain the rogatory statements of  FP and RO  in April 2008 (note the date).  Both stating:

 "RM came up to me shook me by the hand and said I am Robert Murat.  I noticed he had a squint and he gave us his phone number.  I am 100% sure it was Robert Murat"

Unquote !!!

I rest my case!

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by April28th on 20.11.16 21:00

Certainly inaccurate. Whether intentional or not I couldn't guess. The FP and RO descriptions of meeting RM aren't even the same event.
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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 20.11.16 23:11

April28th wrote:Certainly inaccurate. Whether intentional or not I couldn't guess. The FP and RO descriptions of meeting RM aren't even the same event.
As you say it could have been unintentional but judging by the general tenor of the original comments, it leads me to think the intention was malicious.  Besides, the claim was presented as a quotation which is completely wrong and thus misleading.

I'm aware of the various accounts of the meetings with Robert Murat as per the rogatory interviews with Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien, having read every reference idenrtified by word search.  I also took a cursory look at the rogatory interviews of the other Tapas members, which are about as illuminating as the aforementioned.  A concoction of different times and days all muddled into a nonsensical portrayal of how and when they individually first encountered Robert Murat.

Let's not forget - the Tapas group rogatories were at the bequest of Gerry and Kate McCann.

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