Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

by ChippyM 18.10.16 14:03

What court would the Barkas family take it to? The uk police have said it was an accident but have not named a person as responsible due to the statute of limitations. So they can't challenge the police. They could possibly sue the media for defamation.

With all due respect, no child would want to believe their parent was responsible for such a death. The son wasn't there on the day Ben went missing and he wasn't there when the alleged witness saw his father shaking after being questioned. I can see why they're upset. I think the problem is the anonymous witness, which the police don't seem to be able to identify probably as terms of them coming forward, it puts doubts in many people's minds.

by jeanmonroe 18.10.16 14:17

So you wouldn't be 'upset' if 'someone' said 'Oh, it was ChippyM's dead dad wot robbed that shop in 1991'?

Without a scintilla of 'evidence' to actually 'prove' that.

And the 'police', acting on 'intell received' said 'we believe, and have been 'told', that ChippyM's dad robbed that shop, in 1991, case closed'

You 'wouldn't' be 'upset'?

I think.... you 'might be'!

by sallypelt 18.10.16 15:46

Verdi wrote:@DougD wrote: 'So is he calling whoever narrated the story for the book (Paperback p.84) a liar?'

Does it say anywhere who narrated the story? It reads more like a scene from Gerald Durrell's 'My Family and other Animals'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the book 'Ben' authored (?) by Kerry Needham was first published in May (that month again) 2013. A synopsis of the book reads as follows..

In 1991 Kerry and her son Ben followed Kerry’s parents to live on the Greek island of Kos.

On July 24th she was at work when her mum Christine arrived crying uncontrollably. Ben had been playing outside, and then disappeared. Someone had taken Ben.

In her heartbreaking memoir, Kerry describes the agony of being initially suspected by the police, which meant the closure of airport and ferry terminals were delayed, the early sightings that raised their hopes, and the hoaxes which dashed them completely. And the unbearable pain of knowing her baby boy was alone somewhere without his mum.

Back in the UK, the long years of waiting and hoping have been difficult on the whole family. Kerry has raised her daughter, Leighanna, while following up more than 300 leads.

In 2011 they had a breakthrough when South Yorkshire Police agreed to work with the Greek authorities to reopen the case. The chance that Ben will read about himself and come home becomes more real every day.

All of Kerry's royalties from the sale of this book will go toward the Help Find Ben campaign.
----------

Fifty one shades of McCann. Oh dear..

We must also remember, that whatever Kerry said happened that day was THIRD PARTY information. We are told that Kerry dropped Ben off at her mum's and then went to work. Again, according to accounts, Kerry was still at work when she was told the news that Ben was missing. I believe that when Kerry was told about Ben it was quite late into the night.
So, whatever is in the book that Kerry wrote, she can't be certain what happened back at the farmhouse at the time Ben disappeared, because Kerry wasn't there.

by Verdi 18.10.16 15:53

ChippyM wrote:What court would the Barkas family take it to? The uk police have said it was an accident but have not named a person as responsible due to the statute of limitations. So they can't challenge the police. They could possibly sue the media for defamation.

The McCanns managed to pull it off - all of it!

South Yorkshire police, in the form of DI Cousins, publicly stated that they were working on information that concerned a named man, since deceased, who was said to be working in the area when Ben Needham disappeared. From this less than convincing story, they have moved a guesstimated 800 ton of dirt and rubble from one location to another without unearthing one piece of evidence to suggest that Ben Needham was crushed by a digger, nor buried accidently/purposely. Yet the conclusion of the UK police is, they've done all they can, left no stone unturned - Ben Needham most likely died as a result of an accident and was buried.

Kerry Needham hopes the named man is burning in hell for taking his secret to the grave. Reason enough for redress in my opinion. If the Greek family can't afford to take a case to court, at least they deserve a public apology for the false allegations made against 'Dinos'. False because the accusation hasn't been proven as fact.

Good policing eh?

Operation Grange are at a ~~loose~~ dead end - maybe they could apply their expertise to the case?

by Verdi 18.10.16 16:02

sallypelt wrote:
We must also remember, that whatever Kerry said happened that day was THIRD PARTY information. We are told that Kerry dropped Ben off at her mum's and then went to work. Again, according to accounts, Kerry was still at work when she was told the news that Ben was missing. I believe that when Kerry was told about Ben it was quite late into the night.

So, whatever is in the book that Kerry wrote, she can't be certain what happened back at the farmhouse at the time Ben disappeared, because Kerry wasn't there.

Same thing occured to me - how can she write a book about the disappearance of her liitle boy when she wasn't even there. As I think I've said before, Kerry Needham doesn't appear to resent either her father or mother for what happened, I find that rather surprising. It's not as though one of them just chucked a glass of red wine over their white shag pile - oops, never mind accidents do happen!

It was different for Kate McCann - she knew because she was there...

by ChippyM 18.10.16 16:31

The

jeanmonroe wrote:So you wouldn't be 'upset' if 'someone' said 'Oh, it was ChippyM's dead dad wot robbed that shop in 1991'?

Without a scintilla of 'evidence' to actually 'prove' that.

And the 'police', acting on 'intell received' said 'we believe, and have been 'told', that ChippyM's dad robbed that shop, in 1991, case closed'

You 'wouldn't' be 'upset'?

I think.... you 'might be'!

Course I would be upset, which is why I said i can understand why they were upset and could probably sue the media. They're not likely to be able to sue the police as they have not named anyone. I was pointing out that close relatives are going to be biased. The barkas family don't want to believe their husband/father could be responsible and Kerry N. doesn't want to believe her parents were responsible. As has been pointed out by others, Kerry Needham wasn't there when it happened, Barkas' son wasn't there, they both have strong biases on which to base their own conclusions.

I suppose the police believe that witness account that lead them to a toy belonging to Ben buried in rubble from 20 years ago counts as evidence. it's not the same as no evidence.

by **Tony Bennett** 18.10.16 16:51

Verdi wrote:
South Yorkshire police, in the form of DI Cousins, publicly stated that they were working on information that concerned a named man, since deceased, who was said to be working in the area when Ben Needham disappeared.

Naming, shaming and smearing this dead man, and humiliating and burdening his surviving family, on the fragile basis (even if true) that his so-called 'friend' heard a 'death-bed' confession from the man, is utterly despicable.

They absolutely did not have to give out his name.

It is an exact re-run of Monteiro, the dead tractor-driver from the Cape Verde Islands, whose surviving wife was similarly humiliated and burdened.

Some senior British police officers have no shame whatsoever, the ones who publicly named the Kos man and Monteiro are beneath contempt for what they have done.

I would love to know the date his 'friend' heard this so-called confession - but then I don't believe he ever did. And if he did hear it, how soon did he inform the police about it?

I am so glad that others here are also not buying this convenient way (for someone) of closing this case. I wonder just what game they are playing here?

by ChippyM 18.10.16 17:09

Some reports say the 'witness' contacted Greece's version of crimewatch with the information because there was an appeal. When the papers paraphrase what the alleged witness said they give no source, not even a 'police source' or 'friend close to the family' type of source. The witness does seem to be shrouded in mystery but is it because anonymity was assured with the appeal?

by **Tony Bennett** 18.10.16 17:36

ChippyM wrote:Some reports say the 'witness' contacted Greece's version of crimewatch with the information because there was an appeal. When the papers paraphrase what the alleged witness said they give no source, not even a 'police source' or 'friend close to the family' type of source. The witness does seem to be shrouded in mystery but is it because anonymity was assured with the appeal?

This reminds me of all the people 'shrouded in anonymity' in the Madeleine McCann case. Like...

* 'Crecheman'

* The British banker who agonised agonisingly for over two years before he disclosed that, after an evening spent in the bars of Barcelona, an Aussie woman who looked like Victoria Beckham ,at 2.00am, asked him for her new daughter

* The unnamed barrister who said that leaving three children all under four on their own while dining over a minute's walk away was 'well within the bounds of responsible parenting'

* The unnamed police officer who told Kate McCann 'not to show emotion' on the telly in case the abductor gained satisfaction from it

* The 'mystery man' from Germany who left a death-bed letter (another one!) with Wayne Hewlett, who promptly burnt it, despite it (allegedly) containing the actual name of the man who stole Madeleine.

I think there are others.

They are indeed playing the British people for absolute suckers

by Verdi 18.10.16 20:26

Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:
South Yorkshire police, in the form of DI Cousins, publicly stated that they were working on information that concerned a named man, since deceased, who was said to be working in the area when Ben Needham disappeared.
Naming, shaming and smearing this dead man, and humiliating and burdening his surviving family, on the fragile basis (even if true) that his so-called 'friend' heard a 'death-bed' confession from the man, is utterly despicable.

They absolutely did not have to give out his name.

It is an exact re-run of Monteiro, the dead tractor-driver from the Cape Verde Islands, whose surviving wife was similarly humiliated and burdened.

Some senior British police officers have no shame whatsoever, the ones who publicly named the Kos man and Monteiro are beneath contempt for what they have done.

I would love to know the date his 'friend' heard this so-called confession - but then I don't believe he ever did. And if he did hear it, how soon did he inform the police about it?

I am so glad that others here are also not buying this convenient way (for someone) of closing this case. I wonder just what game they are playing here?

Agreed

!

The game they are playing? Trying to avoid melodrama - I think the most likely explanation is a vapid attempt to justify the existence of Operation Grange. Kerry Needham has on more than one occasion, used the case of Madeleine McCann, or rather the case of Gerry and Kate McCann, to achieve her desire for public attention, the UK police and the UK media. It worked!

This latest Kos exercise and indeed the previous excavation organized by the UK police in search of Ben Needham's remains was, in my opinion, to show that every effort was made to solve the case of Ben Needham's disappearance, thanks to the UK authorities. They knew when they arrived on the island that Ben Needham's remains would not be found, nor any evidence that he had been crushed by a digger and buried for all these years.

A PR exercise pure and simple. I can't realistically see any other reason for this non-productive extravagance.

by Verdi 18.10.16 20:38

Tony Bennet wrote:

They are indeed playing the British people for absolute suckers

Unfortunately, sometimes the British people behave like absolute suckers.

You only need read some of the online tabloid comments published, to get an idea how gullible some people are - they'll believe anything thrown at them. I guess it's easier than thinking for yourself.

From day one I never believed the McCanns story but thousands must have been taken in by their tales of woe - look at the ~~fight~~ search fund.

by Verdi 18.10.16 20:47

ChippyM wrote:

I suppose the police believe that witness account that lead them to a toy belonging to Ben buried in rubble from 20 years ago counts as evidence. it's not the same as no evidence.

With respect ChippyM, unearthing a child's toy during the excavation equates to zero - other than unearthing a child's toy. It cannot be counted as evidence that Ben Needham was crushed to death and buried by an earth-mover, it doesn't even signify that he was playing in and/or outside the derelict farmhouse when he allegedly disappeared.

If that's what DI Cousins of South Yorkshire police expects us to believe then it's even worse than I thought!

by MayMuse 18.10.16 21:31

Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:
South Yorkshire police, in the form of DI Cousins, publicly stated that they were working on information that concerned a named man, since deceased, who was said to be working in the area when Ben Needham disappeared.
Naming, shaming and smearing this dead man, and humiliating and burdening his surviving family, on the fragile basis (even if true) that his so-called 'friend' heard a 'death-bed' confession from the man, is utterly despicable.

They absolutely did not have to give out his name.

It is an exact re-run of Monteiro, the dead tractor-driver from the Cape Verde Islands, whose surviving wife was similarly humiliated and burdened.

Some senior British police officers have no shame whatsoever, the ones who publicly named the Kos man and Monteiro are beneath contempt for what they have done.

I would love to know the date his 'friend' heard this so-called confession - but then I don't believe he ever did. And if he did hear it, how soon did he inform the police about it?

I am so glad that others here are also not buying this convenient way (for someone) of closing this case. I wonder just what game they are playing here?

Agree totally with this, also find it strange that they can say an "accident" what proof do they have? Where are the witnesses and it still doesn't explain the shorts or toys, Ben had two dinky cars
One they have found one and believe it to be Bens why only the one and not two ?

Paving the way to see what will be accepted by the public to close another high profile case IMO

If I was Kerry searching for my son for,over two decades and this was the result from the police I would be asking zillions of questions and not taking it face value, in fact unitl I was given concrete proof there is no way I would accept it.

And what about the shoes and their re-creation?

I'm now finding the whole thing weirder by the minute.

by Silverspeed 18.10.16 22:32

Well according to this report his grandmother thinks that the toy car found at the 'eleventh hour' could have been Ben's but they can't be sure. I can't see how this proves anything really.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-37688475

It's all very well blaming Dinos, but what actual evidence do they have that proves he was responsible for Ben's accidental death on an afternoon when he supposedly wasn't even working?
Very unfair on his family. He may be entirely innocent.

by Verdi 18.10.16 23:14

Silverspeed wrote:Well according to this report his grandmother thinks that the toy car found at the 'eleventh hour' could have been Ben's but they can't be sure. I can't see how this proves anything really.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-37688475

It's all very well blaming Dinos, but what actual evidence do they have that proves he was responsible for Ben's accidental death on an afternoon when he supposedly wasn't even working?
Very unfair on his family. He may be entirely innocent.

I'm quite sure he is/was innocent but a dead man can't speak for himself can he.

He is another tractorman as Tony said up-page, a convenient patsy that can never be proven guilty. The story is ludicrous, there is absolutely no evidence or even intelligence to suggest otherwise. DI Cousins representing South Yorkshire police is a disgrace to policing - an embarrassment that they will be burdened with indefinitely.

The family deserve an apology, they shouldn't be put through this exposure and shame. The case stinks to high heaven - it's not straightforward. Someone/s very close to Ben Needham is hiding a big secret which I don't believe will ever be revealed.

by Verdi 18.10.16 23:53

DI Cousins told the Needham family to expect the worst - he was wrong to do that.

DI Cousins told the Needham family to expect the worst based on second hand information without any evidence - he was wrong to do that.

DI Cousins told the press that the new intelligence was being balanced with other intelligence (evidence ?) gathered over more recent years - he failed to specify what.

DI Cousins told the Needham family and the Press that he was firmly committed to finding out what happened to Ben Needham - to give the family answers - he failed.

DI Cousins told the press that he was pleased with progress - he failed to clarify what progress had been made.

DI Cousins invited Ben Needham's grandfather to travel to Kos and observe the investigation and confirm his work on the foundations 25 years ago - why?

DI Cousins invited Kerry Needham and her mother last weekend to visit the site where they had failed to locate any evidence to suggest Ben Needham had been crushed by a digger and buried - why?

DI Cousins told the Needham family that Ben Needham was probably killed in an accident and later buried. Without any evidence, the Needham family readily believed the theory, despite being previously convinced that the child had been abducted and was alive - why?

DI Cousins gave Kerry Needham a child's toy that had been unearthed during the excavation - why?

Kerry Needham with her mother and father, invited the Daily Mirror to Kos last weekend to join the grande finale - why?

Kerry Needham allowed herself with mother and father to be photographed/filmed by journalists whilst in a state of hysteria - why?

DI Cousins has failed miserably - why?

In my view, this charade is nothing but a staged performance to satisfy all concerned. All very cosy but they seem to have overlooked one very important factor - the prime victim - Ben Needham! Another unsolved case of a missing child to be recorded in the annals of FAILED!

Still, I guess it's now ripe for a documentary or three and a book sequel.

by **Tony Bennett** 19.10.16 0:20

Verdi wrote:DI Cousins told the Needham family to expect the worst - he was wrong to do that.

DI Cousins told the Needham family to expect the worst based on second hand information without any evidence - he was wrong to do that.

DI Cousins told the press that the new intelligence was being balanced with other intelligence (evidence ?) gathered over more recent years - he failed to specify what.

DI Cousins told the Needham family and the Press that he was firmly committed to finding out what happened to Ben Needham - to give the family answers - he failed.

DI Cousins told the press that he was pleased with progress - he failed to clarify what progress had been made.

DI Cousins invited Ben Needham's grandfather to travel to Kos and observe the investigation and confirm his work on the foundations 25 years ago - why?

DI Cousins invited Kerry Needham and her mother last weekend to visit the site where they had failed to locate any evidence to suggest Ben Needham had been crushed by a digger and buried - why?

DI Cousins told the Needham family that Ben Needham was probably killed in an accident and later buried. Without any evidence, the Needham family readily believed the theory, despite being previously convinced that the child had been abducted and was alive - why?

DI Cousins gave Kerry Needham a child's toy that had been unearthed during the excavation - why?

Kerry Needham with her mother and father, invited the Daily Mirror to Kos last weekend to join the grande finale - why?

Kerry Needham allowed herself with mother and father to be photographed/filmed by journalists whilst in a state of hysteria - why?

DI Cousins has failed miserably - why?

In my view, this charade is nothing but a staged performance to satisfy all concerned. All very cosy but they seem to have overlooked one very important factor - the prime victim - Ben Needham! Another unsolved case of a missing child to be recorded in the annals of FAILED!

Still, I guess it's now ripe for a documentary or three and a book sequel.

Yes @ Verdi I think you have nailed it.

This was indeed a performance, a play, a drama, one that 'they' surely wanted us all to watch.

There were several notable performances - DI Cousins, the media and even, I'm afraid, Kerry Needham played her part by becoming fully involved in the scene.

And there were props: diggers, trucks, shovels.

Kate McCann used to praise husband Gerry in her diary for putting on 'another great TV performance'.

How can any grieving relative - whose child has been stolen by a wicked abductor - even think of 'putting on a performance'?

Then there was Jon Corner on that early Panorama programme, where he filmed Kate and Gerry in their Praia da Luz villa, explaining how he was working 'backstage'.

Kate can look grey, haggard and drawn for the cameras - very convincing.

But when the cameras are gone, and you're just among friends, well...

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 15 Gerry_10

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 15 Gerry_10

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 15 Gerry_11

by jeanmonroe 19.10.16 0:54

@TB

I am so glad that others here are also not buying this convenient way (for someone) of closing this case. I wonder just what game they are playing here?
-------------------------------------------------------

Imo, the 'same game' our 'fave' ex MET DCI, would have 'played' in the well publicised, beforehand, 'dig' in PDL in 2014.

However, because of all the 'prior' publicity, 'astute' people on CMOMM, including myself (goldstar), said BEFORE the 'team' had left the UK, 'hmm, wonder if our Andy WILL 'find' something, anything, conveniently, 'relating' to Madeleine. I 'personally' went for replica PJ's and 'toothbrush', or if our ex DCI had gained 'access' to his three 'bungling burglators' homes, possibly a few 'very close match', Madeleine 'hair samples' (supplied).

As OG 'read' here, they knew, imo, they KNEW, that little 'ruse' wouldn't hold water!

3 1/2 years FULL TIME 'dedicated' erm, 'searching' by an 28 year police career, elite, experienced, ex DCI, and his FULL TIME 'team of 38', had 'achieved' zero, zilch, nada.!

What 'sort' of 'child abduction expert' was this person?

A very 'convenient' piece of 'evidence' (at the 'dig') would have been an absolute 'godsend'.

Case closed, 'comfort' for the 'parents', national 'hero' status, etc., for the ex DCI.

THAT, imo, is the 'game' UK 'cops' PLAY!

And they have 'done' since before i was 'born' a long, long, time ago.

Only just 'recently', i believe, the ex cop that 'nicked' Becky Godden's 'killer', (great 'job' by ex Det Supt Steve Fulcher) believes, 'he's probably responsible for another six/eight 'murders' of women' countrywide, including, conveniently, Claudia Lawrence, another 'headache' for police. He may well be 'right' but when i heard 'that' i instantly 'thought' .......'here we go, lots of unsolved murders....clear the books, cases closed'

That's what 'they' DO!

All imo, obviously.

by jeanmonroe 19.10.16 1:30

@TB

I would love to know the date his 'friend' heard this so-called confession - but then I don't believe he ever did. And if he did hear it, how soon did he inform the police about it?
------------------------------------------------

The driver, Konstantinos Barkas, died of cancer last year - prompting a new witness to come forward with fresh evidence.

So, 'presumeably' his 'friend/witness' KNEW of all 'this'... LAST year.................and it's taken SYP 'almost a year' to get around to 'acting' on the 'friends/witness' erm, 'intelligence'?

Maybe the 'friend/witness' only 'told' the SYP 'four weeks ago'!

Hmmmmm. thinking

by Doug D 19.10.16 10:15

Verdi:

‘is there any detail or even mention of Ben's father? This aspect intrigues me having read differing accounts of his temporary stay on the island of Kos.

Also, does it clarify the reason (illness) for the Needhams return to the UK within weeks of Ben's disappearance?

I'm loathed to buy a book of this sort.’

There are a number of snippets about Simon which look suspect on the face of it, but the police seem to have satisfied themselves he was not involved.

He ‘arrived on 12^th June 1991. Within a month he was making plans to return to Sheffield…………..He wanted Ben and me to accompany him’

‘Then on 22 July I said, ‘See you later,’ to Simon……… Mum drove Simon to the port and she and Ben waved him off.’

Then p.124:

….Tony, a regular at the Sandy Lane Hotel across the road from the caravan………’I saw your Simon last week Eddie……He was going in the bank in Kos town. I said hello.’

He’s back in England now,………..Christine dropped him at the ferry on Monday’

‘That can’t be right……I saw him on Tuesday’

But by p.138 they seem to have dismissed this possibility and accepted that this sighting was not correct

As for the Needham’s return home, it was ‘to get the medical help they needed’ (p.154). Her Dad’s secret drinking and injuries caused by lacking concentration at work are quoted and mental and psychological problems of other family members, depression, grief counseling etc

As for the book, second hand on Amazon for 1p! (plus couple of quid postage). You can buy a hard copy of 'madeleine' for the same price.

by Verdi 19.10.16 12:25

Much obliged for your time Doug D howdy

.

A report from the Mirror, the intelligent tabloid, who claimed to have supported the Needham family throughout their ordeal. Much of the report is attributed to direct quotes from Ben Neeham's father.

Please note date of publication and the specific text snipped ..

'I secretly watched police dig for my son's body': Missing Ben Needham’s dad breaks silence on his torment

2nd January 2013

***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 15 Search%20for%20Ben%20Needham

Serch: South Yorkshire police team dig into a mound at the farm house

The latest operation was launched after a tip-off that Ben may have been buried in building work being carried out on the day he disappeared.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/missing-ben-needham-dad-simon-1514006

I'm not thinking that the child's father was responsible or involved in the child's disappearance but I do think their relationship was unstable which is an indication of the Needham family's general disposition. I always considered it strange that Kerry Needham decided to take off with such a young child to live in a caravan with her parents. No job no work prospects no schooling for the child no money nowhere to live - seems like she was running away from something without thinking it through - but then again, she was very young.

by Verdi 19.10.16 12:40

Doug D wrote:
As for the book, second hand on Amazon for 1p! (plus couple of quid postage). You can buy a hard copy of 'madeleine' for the same price.

Did you notice also that Amazon are offering 3 collectable hardback editions of 'madeleine' by KATE MCCANN from 1 pound and 1 collectable paperback edition from 9.99 ?

Is that like a limited edition I ask myself - are they personally signed by Kate McCann - err... Kate Healy? A bargain indeed.

Only 11 left in stock - more on the way. They've been saying that (give or take a few) for years but I digress.

What Kerry Needham needs is a good PR representative - think she's got that now, courtesy of the UK government and South Yorkshire police and of course 'the intelligent tabloid'.
Clarence Mitchell - who he scratchhead

?

by plebgate 19.10.16 12:52

Ref possible suing - Kerry got this man's name from someone and seems to be convinced enough to wish him ill, let's be fair who wouldn't?

This sought of accusation will haunt the family for (at least) a couple of generations imo and I certainly would seek legal advice as to finding out exactly what Kerry was told. Kerry is not the one to be sued but something has definitely made her believe that Ben is dead and that Dino was involved.

It definitely does not make sense to me as it stands.

by ChippyM 19.10.16 13:27

Verdi wrote:
ChippyM wrote:

I suppose the police believe that witness account that lead them to a toy belonging to Ben buried in rubble from 20 years ago counts as evidence. it's not the same as no evidence.
With respect ChippyM, unearthing a child's toy during the excavation equates to zero - other than unearthing a child's toy. It cannot be counted as evidence that Ben Needham was crushed to death and buried by an earth-mover, it doesn't even signify that he was playing in and/or outside the derelict farmhouse when he allegedly disappeared.

If that's what DI Cousins of South Yorkshire police expects us to believe then it's even worse than I thought!

The toy car does not equate to 'zero' evidence. You may not be satisfied by it but it is evidence. It was found in another site searched which apparently the mystery witness lead them to. These things together with the age of the rubble do actual count for something. It's like how in murder cases such as Claudia Lawrence, there is no direct evidence of a murder but the fact that items were missing and she didn't turn up for work leads the police to a conclusion. I know people here are sceptical about the police (me included) but if you don't take this evidence at face value, the only conclusion is they planted it, i don't feel they needed to do this because what would they be covering up?

I feel like many here actually want this case to be a cover-up so it can fit with the McCann case, it's not the same. A child was playing on a building site and probably got crushed by a JCB that was actually there ....the means of the incident were actually physically there without a doubt.

by Doug D 19.10.16 15:31

ChippyM:

‘...the means of the incident were actually physically there without a doubt.’

JCB was there, but it can’t drive itself!

'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Re: 'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016 (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)

Log in for more topics